ASB Mentoring Program and Self-Reffing

[Frosty]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Busy days and lack of ideas means that I am drawing mostly a blank as far as the newbie program is concerned. So it should take a small while until I can present something about it as I only have a very general idea of how it is gonna go. On the meantime if you have suggestions, I am all ears.

After the newbie program is dealt with I intend to send everything to the booth and kick start it.

 

[Maxim]

On Reffing Tutoring: Do we have a general idea on who's going to start as an Apprentice/Registered/White Listed Ref? Or is everyone sans a few people going to be "reset" to Apprentice level?

On Newbie Tutoring: I'm wondering if we should make this mandatory for all newbies or just an option. Regardless, here's my thought on how to proceed, just a very rough draft I made up on the fly.

• Newbie signs up, then they are assigned a Tutor who helps them make a good Registration Tower post.
• Once Registration checks out, then Tutor has a 1v1 LC battle to teach the newbie the very basic stuff.
• Tutor encourages the player to make a 3v3 battle of some sort in the Battle Tower, where they fight for real.
• Maybe a final exam? Dunno how that would work though. Maybe another Battle Tower match without the tutor's help?

 

[Frosty]

Only the people that will be tutors will be white-listed from the get-go. around 5ish or so of the people that volunteer to tutor. Perhaps more. I will decide that with akela, probably.

The vast majority (if not all) the current refs will be Registered. Sure, many of you are experienced and all and know the ropes, but the main reason why many old refs will have to be white-listed is timeliness (read: many of you could use reffing on time for a change). I won't let the guy be white-listed so he can self-ref like a maniac and then proceed to john on the usual reffings.

Of course that may change along the way, so consider the answer just "all active refs will be classified when it begins".

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

So my idea of the Mentoring Program (as much as I have read) is this:

1) Start a Newbie introduction thread, with the OP having the White-listed refs names, their TZs and their preferred way of communication.
2) When Newbie's join they post in this thread and either look for a Mentor to contact or A Mentor could opt to help out the new guy/girl.
3) The Mentor encourages them to join our Channel in IRC. If they have trouble with or are uncomfortable with it, then the mentor communicates with them in the way that works for the both of them.
4) The Mentor tells them about NDA, basic rule differences between Competitive Pokemon and ASB and then battles them.
5) While battling the Mentor should not look to win, but rather would try to show the different ways to effectively battle. (The newbie doesn't have to register before the battle, they can opt to battle first to decide their starters.)
6) If the newbie is not comfortable with the pokemon they battled with, the Mentor could suggest pokemon(s) to them and guide them through the Viability Rankings in ASB.
7) The Mentor then helps them complete their registration and welcomes them to our community.

Some of the above points are my adds, and if there are some major deviations that are not necessary then lets discuss them.

*Newbie Introduction thread - This thread will have their basic info. TZs, something about them, their interests, location, experience with pokemon and so on.

The reason for newbies to battle before registration is because, a battle teaches them a lot more than whatever we have to say. So like we have in SICK and LLAMA tournaments, they can have rented pokemon as starters to try out in their first battle. And if they like them, they can opt to register with the same pokemon. The pokemon profiles for the rented pokemon can be got from the facilities or custom made by the Mentor and the Newbie together.

I know this is lot of work for the Mentors. But after all the initial struggle; looking at a Newbie, who you have mentored, grow in ASB would be a rewarding experience Imo.

I personally consider some of you as my mentors. Who have really been patient and supportive towards me at different times and in their own way. And when I look back at my ASB experience, I feel obliged to send out a general 'thanks' towards them. !! Thanks Guys !!

ASB is fun, and lets make it fun for everyone who wants to join us ^_^

Cheers!

 

[Canis Majoris]

Why did you enter ASB?
I actually came from the Create-a-Pokemon project. From what I remember, I saw someone's ASB profile on a signature, and decided to check it out. Needless to say I loved the concept to death and joined.

At the begining of ASB, what aspect(s) of it were harder for you get over?
The pace. Joining this, I expected a very fast-paced gameplay, with moves being done in minutes, sometimes seconds. No one told me it would be days instead.

Regarding the newbie program, I feel it should be optional. If newbies want help, they'll get it. They shouldn't be forced to be tutored if they don't want it.

I like how Gale's idea works regarding the introduction thread and the "rental battle". Most new people who sign up don't know what to pick, and it would help if a veteran guided them through it, and having them test the waters.

 

[Birkal]

In terms of the whitelist of referees, I wouldn't force those referees to be tutors unless the need was great enough. I, for one, would be extremely interested in being a tutor, and I know a lot of other veterans on here would feel the same. I would start requesting volunteers and if there is a lack of tutors, then we can re-evaluate here in PR and determine requirements for whitelist.

Newbie program is looking good, especially rentals in Gale's proposal. We should make sure to have those rental Pokemon profiles ready to go. Perhaps starts from a generation and a few CAP pre-evos? Regardless, new users shouldn't need to make a profile in order to get a taste for the game. Mentors / Tutors should contact new users that post and take them under their wing. It is the initiative of the new program to bring in new users, not the other way around. Once they have a profile and are registered, that's when they shift into the Reffing 101 program to sharpen their skills. Seems like the natural progression!

 

[akela]

I have a large number of profiles already constructed. Both of fresh pokemon I have purchased and of fresh pokemon I intend on purchasing. That issue is not a large concern.

 

[Geodude6]

I also have a list of profiles for Pokemon I intend to purchase. I have profiles for a Scyther, Seviper, Stunky, Spiritomb, and Aerodactyl that I can provide for the program. But I'm pretty sure Gale meant to have more built-up Pokemon available as rentals (if I'm wrong correct me please) because those are the kinds of Pokemon that players will be using in gyms and tournaments. No one's going to be bringing a fresh Gastly to a tournament, but you might bring a Gengar with 40, 50, 60 moves (or more!).

 

[TSRD]

That shouldn't be hard to get, we could just get profiles from people who own those mons (Gym Leaders and the like).
I don't know if that would be a bit overwhelming or not to a new player. On one hand it shows them the clear difference between ASB and normal mons (a move pool vs 4 moves) but it's also a lot of potential confusion and rules issues right from the start.
I could see either option (small move pool/lc mons vs large pool/fe mons) being effective in different ways.

 

[AOPSUser]

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I feel like having the entire process before registration is overdoing it a bit tbh. Showing newbies the NDA and the Handbook before they join may actually discourage them from joining (I have a friend who was considering joining before he saw how big the data is). That said, we should definitely try to ease newbies into the flow of things, and eventually they'll see that all that data isn't so bad to sift through.

I suggest that the tutoring process begins after registration. I strongly dislike the idea of anyone influencing a newcomer's choice of starters, since in ASB the difference between top-tier and bottom-tier is so unlike that in, say, OU, and you shouldn't feel stupid for choosing Ledyba just because it's your favorite mon. I like the idea of rental but I feel that there should be one rental battle with 40-move FEs towards the end of the process, as a sort of preview into the kind of orders they'll be having to make here.

I strongly suggest keeping the process short and sweet--we show them the ropes but without boring them with long explanations and battles and such, and then we turn them loose to go discover what not to do on their own. I think that's the best way to learn.

 

[Frosty]

Rough Proposal:

This program will revolve around 2 threads: the ASB's Beginner's Guide and the Mentoring Program Thread. The Beginner's Guide will be rechecked and possibly adjusted to have just the bare essentials (but all the bare essentials). That is the only thread the Beginner will have to read entirely before or as part of the program, so it should be short and sweet and to the chase. Mentors should avoid lecturing and will just answer questions and explain specific stuff that wasn't understood or that goes beyond the bare essentials. For the major grip, the mentor should redirect to the Beginner's Guide, not try to replace it.

The mentoring program itself works like this:

Starting ASB

The player interested will sign-up filling this form:

Timezone:
ASB Experience (if any):
Why do you want to join Smogon's ASB:
Why do you want to be tutored:
Any extra comments about yourself:

At first there won't be requirements to sign up. You can sign-up without having a registered team or with one. The only requirement is that the player should be somewhat new at the game (people that already had their share of battles may be redirected to other programs).

The player gets into the queue. Normal queue, like with the facilities and such. One of the tutors will get him and get started. Tutors can only pick, at most, 2 Pupils.

The program will have a duration of one month. Battles that originate from the program can go beyond that limit.

During that period, the following stuff can be done in any order and in an independant manner.

1) Battling 101

The player has the right to fight the tutor in at most 3 battles (singles or doubles), being two 2vs2 and one 3vs3. In those battles the player can use either rentals, aka, copies of pokemon owned by registered players (think SICK), or his own mons. The Tutor should respond with either rentals or pokemon of his own that match the level of the ones used by the player (so if the player is using his charmander, you answer with your pichu. If the player is using Birkal's Mewtwo, you answer with zarator's Mega Gengar. Just don't pair charmander with MegaGengar -_-).

The battle will play out normally, with the tutor playing to win, but not by much. Aka: don't fake lose to your pupil, but you don't need to humiliate them either. During the match, the tutor should give tips on moves and what-not, but only after the player orders. Comment on why a certain strategy you/they used went right/wrong and why you/they won/lost the battle.

The Pupil isn't obligated to use all 3 battles, or to use them before or after registering. They can register their team and use the 3 battles to pratice with them. Or they can use the 3 battle solely to try on stuff. Or they can test with 2 matches, register a team and then use the last one as a final test. Or any other way that seems fit.

Those battles are to be self-reffed by the tutor and have the following format:

2v2 Singles or Doubles
DQ: 48h (The DQ of the pupil is by the discretion of the Tutor. If the Pupil asks for the DQ of the Tutor, the Manager of the Program should assign someone to replace them asap).
2 Recoveries, 5 Chills per mon
One Substitution per player excluding KO Substitutions.
One Mega Evolution
Switch = OK
Abilities = ALL
Items = OFF
Arena: ASB Tournament Arena

The Battles award 1CC and 2CC per rental pokemon or 2MC per owned pokemon. For both the player and the tutor. Also the tutor gets a flat 5UC per battle.

Battles from here do NOT count towards 3-slots limitation

2) Strategy 101
Pupils can pick any match from Battle Tower, provided that they have the pokemon required for them (so you can't pick a 6vs6 FE if you have only a Pikachu). When picking the battle, the pupil (or the tutor) should inform that this is a guided battle and that circunstance should be identified by the ref on the OP or the title of the Thread.

Picking a battle like that will automatically extend their DQ interval by 24h.

The battle is done normally. The twist is that the pupil can ask for guidance for the Tutor and Tutor should help out the Pupil with strategies or counterattacks etc. The only thing forbidden is ghosting: the tutor cannot say "do X-X-X". They can, however, suggest a move or say not to use a certain move or suggest one kind of substitution. Just don't post the orders the pupil should use or something like that. It should be done in a way the pupil learns the stuff.

Tutor can't be ref or the opponent.

At the end of the battle, every battler/ref gets normal prizes and the tutor gets 1/3 of the UC the ref got.

Guided Matches DO count for the 3-slots limitation. The Pupil can ask for any number of matches to be guided during the mentoring period.

3) Registering 101
Pupils can ask help to Tutors regarding registration. We will eventually have a list of pokemon skeletons to make the registering process easier.

Tutors will help with sources of moves and good moves to have in which case. The Tutor can give opinions on effectivity of specific mons, but only when asked. So the pupil can ask if the tutor prefers Butterfree or Beedrill in competitive and the tutor can answer. But the tutor can't start the session by saying "yo Dnite is the best ASB mon, you should get it". If the pupil is set on having one specific mon, the tutor must explain the ways that particular mon can be used and not try to demove the pupil from going with said mon. Unless the pupil specifically asks for that.

Again: the tutor mustn't do the profiles for the pupil or choose the mons for him.

An approved profile means that the tutor gets 3UC.

4) FAQ
During that month, the pupil and tutor should stay in touch with each other. The tutor has the duty to answer all ASB-Related questions the pupil have, provided they are in good taste (so if the pupil is trolling with you, don't bother <_<).

For that it is advised that they use IRC from the get-go, as a mean to communicate better and also show that tool to the newcomer. But it is also recommended that Pupil and Tutor have a permanent "Tutoring" Conversation on the forum to discuss those matters.

Tutor is paid a 5UC baseline to account for "4".

- - - -

After the month finishes, the tutoring will remain only for pointers "1" and "2" on the battles started during that month. UC for "1" and "2" can be claimed at the end of each battle. For "3" after the profile is approved and for "4" at the end of the month.

The pupil doesn't need to do all those things, but he can. They define the extent of the tutoring.

At the end of the program, the pupil can sign up again. But he may be redirected to other programs if the managership or the previous tutor thinks he knows the bare essentials of ASB.

Thoughts? It is a really rough draft, done in a hurry. But it is something I suppose. I tried to consider everything that was said above and keep it as flexible as possible.

 

[TSRD]

I like it. I like that there is both the battle 101 and strategy 101.
My only concern is that a month might not be long enough for them to make use of these features given the slow pace some in ASB play.
My initial battles took 2-3 weeks to complete each, and it wasn't because I was new.

Not sure if extending the mentor timeline would help or not though.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

I like it, I'd suggest the option for a tutor to do a month on-month off thing so as to prevent feelings of obligation and burn out

 

[Frosty]

TSRD : All battles picked during that month will have tutoring until their end. So if the pupil picked a 10vs10 singles (go figure how) the tutor will see it through. The month limitation is mostly for registration and for FAQ. I figured more than a month may be too much for the tutor.

Texas Cloverleaf : I would like to do that yeah. But it will depend a lot on the number of people who sign up to be tutors and our monthly demand. If those numbers fit, I can do that.


Also:
1) I will put both programs on the booth for the council to approve of or not. Not putting a warning here, just letting you people know. I may do so in like...8 days, more of less, so discuss them on the meantime, k? Council members please take a look at them, k?
2) Is there real interest for the other courses (c) High-Level Battling d) Raids 101 e) RPs and TLR 101 f) Gyms 101)? I have a few ideas swimming around for some of those, but I will only move forward if there is indeed demand. So give me some feedback, k?

 

[Gale Wing Srock]

2) Is there real interest for the other courses (c) High-Level Battling d) Raids 101 e) RPs and TLR 101 f) Gyms 101)? I have a few ideas swimming around for some of those, but I will only move forward if there is indeed demand. So give me some feedback, k?

I would be interested in those, why not? they will be more fun. But I highly doubt we would have enough tutors for them. I could sign-up for tutor, but I am learning myself; so that wouldn't help.

 

[Frosty]

Some (read: the Gym one) I intend to tutor myself. Others I will see who is interested. But I will only bother with tutors if I see that there is enough demand to make it worth the hassle. If there is small demand, one or two tutors will should suffice anyway. Also:

1) If you want to say "hey I would like those kinds of special programs" (see my post above), but you are too lazy to do so, hit like on this post. Don't hit like on this post if you don't want those programs.
2) I still need to recheck some stuff eventually, but since no discussion happened in the last week I will go ahead and put a one-week warning before booth as that should be the time I'll need to adjust stuff here and there. Self-reffing is within grasp haha.

 

[Frosty]

K, sooo...

1) I changed my mind on submitting the entire program to booth. Massive stuff being voted y/n doesn't work well. Also this was already approved of with Self-Reffing, so I will just save everyone's time. If any coucilmember has any reservations towards any part of the program, let me know and I will see what I can do.
2) akela is helping me out with the reffing program as manager or whatever name you prefer (lemme know if you changed your mind). I need a volunteer to help me out with the Starting ASB Program. Managers will..uh...manage each program, promoting/demoting tutors, tweaking rules, banning users etc. I will be overseeing the entire thing and will be as backup, acting when the manager can't or won't act. Also I will decide the white-listed refs with akela and the respective tutor (or only with akela as far as the initial list goes). So, uh, shoot me a PM if you feel you are qualified to be the manager for the starters program. I am looking with someone with a good deal of experience, preferably. But it will all depend on who is actually interested.

With both managers being chosen we will move forward to selecting tutors and classifying refs. After that we can kickstart the program. BTW just to make it clear:
a) To tutor the Reffing Program you need to be a white-listed ref
b) To tutor the Starting ASB Program, you need to be a registered ref.

But that will be dealt with on the next step.