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What is there not to love about stall rof, I'd like to just say building stall can be fun at times after trail and error of course because no team is "perfect" A lot of testing I feel is needed until you reach a final product, that's where you get to see what works and doesn't. Stall you have a bit of freedom to use mons that aren't seen as much and actually work, whereas in like ho you'd probably get laughed at. :[ I'm just going to share a bit on how I go about team building!
-Pokemon I enjoy using on this style
hazards
hazard control
taunt
clerics
wincons/set up sweepers *note All pokemon listed can go into other roles, example Qwilfish under taunt
-Roles
Stealth rocks are the most important move of the game! And spikes, t spikes help as well.
Hazard control is important not to get worn down yourself Hitmontop is the only spinner I use if I'm not using a deofg user listed above.
Along with hazards you might want to avoid defog by using a taunt user or annoy other stall builds
Clerics play a big role in keeping the team alive long enough to stall, Also healing wish is neat for a wincon or important mon
When building stall I like to have a wincon to break down opposing stall. It's nice to end the game a bit quicker lol
-Threats
Watch out for heavy hitters and set up sweepers! Every pokemon in stall is important it feels like so if one goes down early it could cost you the match. So switch carefully to handle these threats and you'll be golden :]
Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Seismic Toss
- Rest
Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stun Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]
Ok first we have our hazard control and bulky Flygon that can toxic stall if needed. Malamar is the Wincon and can set up on alot of the tier when the time is right. Quagsire is our go to guy for set up sweepers trying to get cheeky. Audino is the cleric and knock off eater it also doesnt have to mega evolve right away. Registeel is the rocker and spDef wall that can break subs with seismic toss and t wave faster mons to help Malamar late game! Amoongus is the fairy killer and fighting/ grass spam blanket. It also spreads stun spore to help Malamar as well.
thats why stall vs stall games tend to take so long, im thinking this is more semi stall due to the fact you have malamar as a setup sweper which isnt typical of stall
thats why stall vs stall games tend to take so long, im thinking this is more semi stall due to the fact you have malamar as a setup sweper which isnt typical of stall
Using a setup sweeper doesn't make a stall team a semi-stall team. A bulky win condition is one of the best ways of dealing with other stall / semistall teams without pp stall (pressure / regen cores) or hazards stacking (which requires a spikes setter) Especially bulky setup sweepers that at the same time deal with very big threats (think of Curse Quagsire and Virizion) are very good pokemon on stall teams because they deal with threats on offense, beat stall and have access to the support they need.
Every single "good" team has a win condition, this does not exclude stall. Win conditions doesnt have to be a specific set up sweeper. Many stall teams win conditions is in the form of hazards and residual damage (rocky helmet, sand, toxic, etc.). If one just places a bunch of fat mons with no hazards or other residual damage they will not win the game. It just bugged me how you say stall has no win condition thats all.
I guess it depends on how you define win con. Basically everyone thinks of a win con as a set up sweeper or occasionally a choice user that can do some sweeping lategame. And stall obviously doesnt need that all the time. But if you define wincon as "whatever you win with/does the most dmg"....then obviously every team needs this...because every teams need to win.
This team is a stall team I made because my old ones got bopped by Venomoth.
It's a pretty good example of a typical stall team - counters basically ~95% of the metagame while keeping key utility moves like Heal Bell on Meloetta and Defog on Golbat. Tentacool is basically unseen in RU but it gives valuable support moves, absorbs Tspikes, and can counter NP Houndoom which otherwise gets a 6-0. There are a few random things that can bop me like SD Escavalier (not that random tbh) so you can use this version as well
This lets you counter more threats (Esca for instance) and have another phazer at the expense of a few utility moves (Leech Seed, Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes). Of course you still have Defog and a grounded poison so "hazard control" is still accounted for. Leech Seed is nice on Tangrowth because it cannot be rested off by Scrafty or in general last mon situattions but since Meloetta runs Perish Song that is taken care of. Obviously neither teams are perfect since something as simple as Pursuit + CM Sigilyph just instantly 6-0 me if played with even a modicum of skill (everything traps Meloetta sadly).
One really underrated threat to stall in my opinion is Baton Pass which can pass boosts to something stall wouldn't expect. Nasty Pass to Exploud and what are you going to do lol. You just have to hope I think your phazer matches up well with their passer (and not every stall team needs a traditional phazer anyways) and if it doesn't you might just be screwed.
My own personal views on stall you might have noticed from my teams above but I REALLY like to use Regenerator Pokemon (Amoonguss, Tangrowth, Alomomola, Audino, ripSlowking), Defog + Spin if I can fit it on the same team, Wish users if I have 2+ mons w/o recovery, at least one Toxic/Wow somewhere and a super fat mon somewhere that can switch into most weak Pokemon (this is usually the Heal bell user/Aromatherapy)
Every single "good" team has a win condition, this does not exclude stall. Win conditions doesnt have to be a specific set up sweeper. Many stall teams win conditions is in the form of hazards and residual damage (rocky helmet, sand, toxic, etc.). If one just places a bunch of fat mons with no hazards or other residual damage they will not win the game. It just bugged me how you say stall has no win condition thats all.
I feel like stall is pretty poor atm. I don't think it's any specific mon that's causing this, but the amount of wallbreakers and extremely obnoxious stallbreakers as of late make it really difficult to build a successful stall build without running very specific Pokemon, that usually doesn't do much outside of beating that one threat, to beat them. For instance, if you don't run Spiritomb, you're just inherently weak to SubCM Meloetta because any other check gets pressured or worn down way too easily. Stuff like Sigilyph is in a similar boat and then there's Venomoth, Houndoom, Spikes Glalie, Virizion, Delphox... It's ridiculous. Unless a few useful defensive Pokemon like vanilla Diancie or a useful offensive mon that can keep some of these mons down (think Doublade in the past) ever end up dropping, I feel like stall will just suffer from the issue of always being very weak to something. I understand that no team can ever be fool-proof, but I feel like the current vulnerability stall has goes beyond the inability to cover x threat, but its more so to do with its consistency degrading due to the recent meta trends of copious wall/stallbreakers that have limited specific, checks.
This isn't just some jab against stall, purely offensive teams have the same issues from what I've found, but in a different spectrum if that makes sense.
Since apparently a lot of people didn't find my choice to do stall fun, weather will be next! You may choose any of the 4 weathers, or more than one if you really want. Great posts so far, should finish the stall summary on Tuesday. I'm curious if people can incorporate this weather on any play style but hyper offense :o
(there is more however these are the best imo) Le Swimmers:
~Threats
Taunt mons, speed control in the form of twave/tailwind/and webs to an extent, Bulky grass types can be problematic to an extent, opposing weather, water absorb mons. The biggest threat to rain is the inability to set your own weather.
~Roles
So for rain there is pretty much, the setters and the swimmers. Usually for rain teams you are going to want 2 dedicated setters, and then you can have 1 situational setter if need be. One of your dedicated setters is for most part going to be your lead, they are going to usually set a hazard and set up rain and then they usually are dead after this. The 2nd setter you are going to want is a fast mon that will outpace many of the threats in ru so that rain can be set up mid game, liepard excels at this due to prankster rain dance = pretty much guaranteed rain. Next your team is going to want to pick its swimmers, listed above is the most viable ones so i recommend picking from that list. (There is a few others not listed however they are extremely unviable in the ru meta game) Depending on your team you could have anywhere from 2-4 swimmers, i recommend using at least 3 for your rain team considering you are going to have 2 setters already.
~Example Teams
Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
Bronzong @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Explosion
- Rain Dance
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- Aqua Jet
Liepard @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rain Dance
- Encore
- Knock Off
- U-turn
Omastar @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
~Threats
Fighting and Fire types pose a large threat to hail teams because they can both hit ice types for super effective damage, ice types being most prevalent on hail teams. Hazards, most ice types take 25% from stealth rocks so switching into rocks multiple times will quickly wear down a team.
~Roles
As far as this section goes its a lot more wide open in comparison to the other types of weather, the most predominate role will be the setter/snow warning mon. The rest of the roles are pretty flexible as there is no ability that boosts a mons speed in hail unlike rain/sun/sand. Arguably the best part of using hail is that your team gains access to 100% Blizzard accuracy. Above in the hail mons section ive listed a few of the mons that generally can fit on hail teams the best, but you can use pretty much anything.
~Sample Team
Aurorus @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpD / 60 Spe
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Blizzard
- Earth Power
- Freeze-Dry
*Also pretty much any rock types because they get a SpDef boost
~Threats
Not having sand up can be the biggest threat to itself, because sweepers that take advantage of sand generally need the speed boost from sand rush to be effective. Generally water types can be a threat especially seismitoad/gastrodon due to their typing they will most likely resist many attacks from a sand team. Hazards can be problematic due to hazard removal not often being carried on sand in efforts not to waste a turn of sand.
~Roles
Setter/Setter/Sweeper/Sweeper/Coverage/Coverage or utility
For the team i will be posting im using double setters with double sand rush sweepers, other sweepers can be used here such as DD or RP tyrantrum or even offensive Mlix.
~Sample Team
Stoutland @ Silk Scarf
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Work Up
- Return
- Wild Charge
- Superpower
Mesprit @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
- Sandstorm
- Ice Beam
- Dazzling Gleam
- Healing Wish
Sandslash @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance
Just as pointed out in this post and this post, Mega Audino could work as a bulky Weather setter of sorts. The cool thing about Audino is that it has coverage good enough to not be complete dead weight such as Thunder / Surf in rain and Solar Beam / Fire Blast in sun. It also has access to Healing Wish, which can help it bring a crippled swimmer/chlorofiller back in action.
I do admit this idea is not mine, but I just wanted to throw that in.
I'm finally finished the stall session, and while I'm in the mood to do stuff on the forums I'll dump some teams I've been using :D
To be completely honest, weather is pretty underrated in RU. The wall breaking power of stuff like Victreebell is insane. -Pokemon you enjoy using on the style
rain
sand
hail
sun
-Roles you feel each style needs to fill
1 Immediate Setter (Prankser or Ability) / 1 Bulky Setter / 2 Weather Abuser / 2 Fillers that handle threats
somewhere it also needs to fit:
-Stealth Rock user
-Thunder Wave immunity is cool -Threats to the style
Thunder Wave
Tangrowth and bulky grass types are annoying to rain but can be played around
Fletchinder and Scarfers threaten all styles
Hitmonlee and most fighting types threaten hail a lot -Example teams you've built **gen 5 sprites are mandatory as gen 5 is the best gen.
A rain of acrobatics
I was helping someone build a rain team about a week ago and I realized how cool Fletchinder + Rain was so I built this squad. It's pretty standard rain outside of I, Ludicolo and Kabutops both abuse rain and break down teams for Fletchinder to clean late game. Escavalier was added to check bulky grass types such as Amoonguss and Tangrowth which threaten Kabutops and Ludicolo. Uxie sets both hazards and rain, while I choose Illumise as my fast setter because I wanted to, honestly I don't see much of a difference between it and Liepard.
Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Def / 28 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
- Roost
Uxie @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Stealth Rock
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
Volbeat @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rain Dance
- Encore
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Giga Drain
- Scald
Kabutops @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
Escavalier @ Assault Vest
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 176 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Iron Head
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
SD Sandslash is GOD
Now the first thing you might notice that this is a sand team without Hippo. That's because personally I feel Hippopotas weighs down sand teams, which is why I decided to go full manual sand. Archeops and Uxie are both my sand setters. I started with SD Sandslash as it seemed fun. I choose these two in particular because Archeops has one of the fastest Sandstorm's in the tier and Uxie has memento to help Sandslash set up. Stoutland is my second sand abuser, and it lures in threats like Jellicent with Crunch which is very helpful. Tangrowth severs as a water type check for things like Alomomola. The overall goal of the team is to weaken teams so that either scarf Delphox or Sandslash can sweep late game. On sandslash itself had X-Scissor because I was getting annoyed by Tangrowth but Knock Off is completely fine.
Archeops @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Defeatist
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Head Smash
- Toxic
- Taunt
- Sandstorm
Uxie @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic
- Memento
- Sandstorm
Sandslash @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off / X-Scissor
- Swords Dance
Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Superpower
- Crunch
- Play Rough
Tangrowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SpA / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast
This team I love a lot, I decided to mess around with Beartic for a bit and came up with this. Basic goal is to beat down steel and rock types and sweep with Scarf Brave Bird. SD Beartic does a lot of damage to the tier, and demolishes a lot of Braviary's checks. Uxie and Liepard set up rain. Memento + Beartic or Durant is broken. Durant is a fast offensive check to a lot, which is useful because without rain Braviary is the only fast thing on this team bar Liepard. Seismitoad checks Jolteon which can be annoying.
Uxie @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Stealth Rock
- Rain Dance
- Memento
Liepard @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
Beartic @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower
- Night Slash
- Swords Dance
Durant @ Lum Berry
Ability: Hustle
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Superpower
- Crunch
- Hone Claws
Seismitoad @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Earth Power
- Grass Knot
- Sludge Wave
99 problems
Really standard sun, which basically means it abuses the broken pokemon that is Victreebel. Uxie sets rocks and sun, and has Memento to ease Victreebel's setting up. Liepard could easily fit in the Cottonee spot, I just put it there because I wanted to be different. It basically does the same exact thing while looking dank af, though it does have a cool dragon immunity that can be useful. Shiftry was chosen as my other sun mon to send out before Victreebel as it has cool synergy in that it baits a lot of Victreebell's checks and goes boom on them. Houndoom checks one of suns greatest counters, Scarf Delphox while Tyrantrum checks the other, Fletchinder.
Houndoom @ Black Glasses
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 160 Atk / 96 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Crunch
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Fire Blast
But Aldo, it is late to post anything... NO IT ISNT, IT IS NEVER LATE.
Weather is cool, matchup based style by nature but cool cause it is pretty straightforward and imo pretty fun to use cause nobody expects it and you can smack many teams by surprise with that. Some common mons under weather are incredibly threatening. Well, lets go!
- Pokemons you enjoy using in this style
Rain:
Sun:
Sand:
Hail:
- Roles the style needs to fill
Rain: rain setter / grass type check / electric type check / swift swim user / swift swim user / rain setter
Sun: sun setter / flying resist / fire type check / chlorophyll user / fire type to take advantage of sun / chlorophyll user
Sand: sand setter / sand rush user / water resist / grass resist / fighting resist / filler that could be a secondary sand setter if you dont use hippo cause hippopotas is honestly bad but automatic sand is nice to free teamslots, rotom-mow or another grass check
Hail: hail setter / fire check / fighting check / hail abuser for blizzard spam (generally rotom-f) / hazard removal (flygon) / secondary fire type check
Thats a general overview of course, some roles can be compressed by certain mons (think seismitoad for rain as electric check + swift swim user), you can always just run 3 swift swimmers or chlorophyll users given the offensive nature of rain and sun.
- Threats to the style
Rain:
, paralysis inducing moves, opposing weather setters in general disrupt the idea of the team.
Sun:
,
types in general, paralysis inducing moves, opposing weather setters in general disrupt the idea of the team.
Sand:
;
,
and
types in general, opposing weather.
Hail: Everything
---> THREAT;
,
,
and some
types in general, opposing weather.
- Example teams you've built
Rain:
Courtesy of DKFirelord, credits to him and thanks for providing the team!
Uxie @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe
Timid Nature
- Memento
- Stealth Rock
- Rain Dance
- Thunder Wave
Liepard @ Damp Rock
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Encore
Omastar @ White Herb / Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature / Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Shell Smash
Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Def / 28 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Taunt
Teh main goal of this team is Leah Uxie Steatlth Rocks Rain Meme someone and either She'll Smash with omastar or BR with poliwrath. Poliwrath has its dual stab with Brick Break and waterfall ( brick break being its strongest accurate fighting type attack) and waterfall for waters stab Sub can be replaced with Earthquake to hit Jellicent ( OHKOes with rocks has a chance without rocks also). Ludicolo is the standard rain set with Hydropump and Giga Drain Being its most power moves ice beam for Grass types and Dragon types and rain dance so it doesn't have to totally rely on the other rain setters. Omastar the second sweeper of the team Hydro Pump for maximum damage ice beam for Grass Types and Hidden power Grass for Water types white herb can be replaced with Lum Berry if you really want to. Linda ( Fletchinder ) finishes up late game when the oppent team is weekend and helps me check moth and fighting types. Liperd for a last minute fast rain setter use it normally latter in the game to have priority Rain.
Sun:
Uxie @ Heat Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Psychic / U-turn
- Memento
- Sunny Day
Liepard @ Heat Rock
Ability: Limber
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Sunny Day
- Encore
Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 172 HP / 252 Atk / 84 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
Exeggutor @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Psyshock
- Solar Beam
Pretty standard sun HO here. Uxie and liepard act as the most reliable weather setters in the tier so they provide the sun that this team needs to be successful.
Emboar acts as a check for mons that could otherwise be extremely problematic like mega glalie, durant and obligatory venomoth check. It can take advantage of sun powering up its flare blitz to outstanding levels and being a great scarfer outside of sun.
Victreebel acts at the first chlorophyll user being the face of sun, victreebel power under sun in insane reaching a ridiculous speed under and having fantastic coverage to hit pretty much everything neutrally. This one runs growth thanks to uxie helping to provide setup opportunities with memento. Rhyperior is the obligatory flying resist so fletchinder doesnt 6-0. It also provides actual bulk and holds the team together against opposing threats like scarf delphox, emboar and tyrantrum, banded cause I already have rocks on uxie and it sounds fun having no switch-ins to this. Ice punch so flygon doesnt switch for free.
Exeggutor is the secondary sun abuser and provides a nice fighting and water resist while helping victreebel overwhelm each others checks really well. Sleep powder is a great mon in general to cripple anything that decides to come by but hidden power fire is definitely an option over it, the rest of the movepool is fairly standard.
Sand:
Hippopotas @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
Sigilyph @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Roost
Alomomola @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 112 HP / 136 Def / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Protect
- Wish
Pretty much the best I could come up with when thinking about that. Hippopotas, while a terrible mon, is necessary to have automatic sand and dont lose a valuable teamslot by adding another sand setter. Stoutland is added as the sand abuser and because it is mandatory to use it with hippopotas. Substitute acts as a cool filler letting it avoid status and because the rest doesnt do much for it anyways like wild charge not doing much to water types and the rest being generally underwhelming. It did pretty well, silk scarf to power up stoutland main STAB move and to avoid life orb recoil which could reduce dog life span considerably
Next we have Mega Steelix, one of the best mons in the tier holding the team together against plenty of mons and taking advantage of sand by powering up its main STABs thanks to sand force, hitting really hard on pretty much anything that dont resist its moves. Rest talk to provide a durable check against plenty of checks while being a nifty venomoth check.
Tangrowth helps the team with its great bulk and fantastic offensive presence to check pretty dangerous threats to the team like rotom-mow and virizion while being a great mega steelix check on its own. Standard movepool here, sludge bomb to hurt opposing grass types.
Then we have sigilyph which provides the team a way to handle fighting types while giving the team a way to avoid status and a solid way of winning games against passive teams, heat wave to hurt steel types given just having focus blast on tangrowth isnt enough.
Alomomola closes the team by bringing wish recovery, only way to avoid getting overwhelm by hazards given no hazard recovery and being an amazing pivot in general. Knock off so sub calm mind meloetta doesnt just win and to hurt delphox reliably which is a major threat as well.
Hail:
/
Aurorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Blizzard
Mesprit @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Zen Headbutt
- Healing Wish
Pretty cool hail offense that was fun to build. Aurorus provides instant hail while being a really nice mon to use while being an ice type that can face most fire types which is fantastic. It also provides the rocks for the team. Standard movepool outside of that, freeze-dry to hit problematic water types.
Rotom-Frost completes the blizzard spam pair having fantastic dual coverage on its STABs and providing the team a great offensive pivot. Standard set with choice scarf that makes it a neat revenge killer.
Hazard removal was imperative so both ice mons didnt die so fast from rocks so flygon was the next addition. Offensive defog flygon is simply fantastic, pressuring every single hazard setter while having impressive power and clearing hazard consistently.
Next we have Escavalier, obligatory venomoth check and neat psychic check while thanks to overcoat its avoid hail residual damage so it is more durable than other steel types while providing amazing power.
Mesprit with a colbur berry gives the team a solid fighting check while giving the team a way to nail scrafty which could otherwise be problematic. Thunder wave is for other fearsome psychic types like sigilyph and delphox doesnt set up on it when running a special set, while nailing faster mons like durant which could attempt to switch into it. Healing wish support is amazing to play with the team more aggresively.
Last I needed another fire resist given flygon lack of recovery of its own, a water type seemed like a nice addition so samurott was added. It provides a solid win condition with swords dance and nailing fire types like delphox and scarf emboar with aqua jet. Emboar was one hell of a threat otherwise.
Poliwrath is another option, while niche, provides the team with an amazing set of resistances and provides the team with a durant check which is incredibly threaten to the team with samurott. Now that poliwrath deals with scrafty fairly well, mesprit can run a physical set which is amazing thanks to knock off nailing opposing psychic types. This is specified in the team importable
YOOOOOOOO whats good smogon kableye here back again once again and today people today we're doing offense! As always this week will run towards next tuesday. I've been stalling on doing this segment because Aldo and I were deciding on if Offense itself is a play style or to just do bulky offense. In the end with the help of some friends we decided to just call the style Offense as there really isn't much variation in this tier between the styles in its struck and how its built in this tier. How Offense defers from HO is obviously that it can take a bulkier approach in team building while HO is just spam hard hitting pokemon until things die. Defensive synergy should be taken in account but remember that it is Offense not balanced so it shouldn't play too much in team building. Rather focus on Pokemon that wear down each others checks. Double01's post will be counted as part of this though it did have points that were true for Hyper offense as well. (reminder to mostly gorex that you can still post old play styles lol)
Man, this is saddening, anyways time to bring some activity back to this:
Sometimes making the difference between offense and hyper offense even though the difference in the names give you a clue. On offense you want something safer, generally composes of a couple of bulky pivots with good supportive capabilities or offensive mons that can hit hard while being able to take a hit from some mons being able to force switches and stuff. The term bulky is entirely subjective but on HO you see an all purpose pivot while in Offense you may use 2 or 3 even, and a good couple of mons with notable offensive presence. Call it a more offensive balance if you may but the purpose is to generate more offensive pressure.
- Pokemons you enjoy using in this style
And a good couple more.
- Roles the style needs to fill
Double01 framework covers this version of offense perfectly. But if you notice, the team he built has plenty of mons that are naturally bulky or that provide pretty efficient pivoting capabilities thanks to the mons in there having really useful resistances while having offensive presence. Compare his team with my arguably terrible tailwind HO team and the difference is notorious.
Much like hyper offense, setup sweepers that could boost its speed and powerful scarfers are absolutely threatening for offense since setup sweepers could muscle through most of the bulky pivots and scarfers can just constantly chip out many members of the team or downright clean up a team if weakened enough. From there, strong wallbreakers are absolutely threatening, more for this than for HO since offense/bulky offense have some defensive mons or naturally bulky mons but with offensive presence and most of the time switching into most wallbreakers is extremely difficult without compromising the ability of check another mon on the opposing team.
Fast mons and priority users are threatening as well but the build being bulky helps dealing with those pretty well, priority is certainly important to mention so I will go with that. Examples like:
Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 208 HP / 132 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Toxic
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
Basically a really bulky team composed of plenty of setup sweepers to overwhelm opposing teams. I wanted to use drapion cause I like this mon, offers a good offensive meloetta check and being able to pressure psychic types pretty well. Next I wanted a SR rocker that didnt invite flygon to defog for free and could pressure togetic as well, most common defoggers. I though rhyperior at first glance but offensive defog could prove difficult to deal with so I decided to try a fun one. Piloswine was the choice and it has proven to be surprisingly effective since it has the plus of not inviting grass types to come in and one of the best mega glalie checks available.
Next I went with tangrowth cause it is an excellent partner for drapion, weakening or destroying literally every drapion check out there is. Then I wanted a pivot with utility, I had the idea of having healing wish for drapion and piloswine and it seemed nice on my head. I went with mesprit at first but fire types were scaring so looking through available healing wish users I saw alomomola. This set is rather experimental but absolutely amazing. Double wish mola let me play mola more aggresively while providing amazing pivoting capabilities against like every fire type. Waterfall to actually beat fire types.
From there, given I have healing wish I went with more setup sweepers cause with that support in the back I said "that sounds like a really good idea!". So, many threats still to check, particularly physical ones and I was getting boned by tyrantrum and scrafty. I went with gurdurr, amazing mon right now, that provides the team amazing physical bulk and another great setup sweeper. Handling scrafty and tyrantrum is amazing and fighting type priority is great. For the last slot I though "venomoth!" so I went with delphox, wanted to use calm mind so I slapped a safety goggles in case venomoth wanted to feel cheeky and sleep powder and then I could bop.
Emboar is absolutely a pain but it can be played around rather well, but mega camerupt is another solid option that provides the team with a great check to emboar while checking venomoth to an extent
So I have to apologize for my lack of activity in this thread, since late summer break I've been stacked with summer work + volunteering + the purchasing of the superior game mh4u, so I haven't been coming on as much as I used to. Things are kinda calming down so I'll revive this thread. After a few weeks I've realized that honestly the most helpful thing you can do, even if you can't write a fancy post like most people have been, is contribute with a team (and the thought process behind it) as I'm not some team building genie who can just spit out perfect teams weekly. I have plans to make this look more appealing and easier to use, for now I'll just be collecting teams and information.
- Pokemons you enjoy using in this style
I can do this later in the OP when I go to finish the offense section. - Roles the style needs to fill ~Main Sweeper: The MainEvent you might even say, basically a wincon that is able to set up late game and sweep. The goal of the team should be to support it. Preferably boosts speed. ~Check breaker (2): These pokemon helps to weaken stuff for the main wincon, and usually shares similar checks or have great offensive synergy with the original sweeper Examples of Pokemon that work like this are: Fletchinder + Drapion (fat ground types) , Fletchinder + Tyrantrum (same as fletchion), Flygon + Tyrantrum (bulky waters, fairy types to an extent), fighting spam teams (example cores being Emboar + Virizion, Medicham + Gallade, Medicham + Scrafty and so on), weather teams, the lord Vivillon + Venomoth core, Meloetta + Durant, Meloetta + Delphox, etc. The possibilities are endless, basically pick a partner that will weaken counter. ~Stealth Rock user: Kind of obvious, any good team needs a Stealth Rock user, let it be stall or ho. Switching is so prevelant in singles that it would be stupid not to take advantage of this.
~Speed: A choice scarf Pokemon or strong priority user that is able to out speed and kill Pokemon that would otherwise run destory on the rest of the team. ~Filler: Really this slot could be anything: Spikes user, another check breaker, pivot I guess or a check to a massive threat to the team, like how on many of my teams the last slot usually ends up being a flying resist because I'm actually terrified of Fletchinder. - Threats to the style
~Bad match up can be especially harmful. A check with recovery or weird ass teams with stuff like Rhyperior + Steelix can really screw over teams, though can be played around.
~Boosting Sweepers can be an issue, but they are for any team. The point of offense is to predict these coming in to beat them, though how offense varies with HO is that it can fit a bulkier check to this threat if needed.
In all honestly now that Cresselia is gone pure offense doesn't struggle with much but poor match up. - Example teams you've built
Mr. Mime Hazard Stack
This team won the team competition a few weeks ago and is honestly one of my favorite teams because I just love how it looks. I began with Venomoth as my main sweeper, as Venomoth is broken lol. I've decided 2 attacks + Black Sludge because I miss recovery on the Life Orb set and my only Emboar check was Qwilfish so I wanted to make sure I can kill it late game without relying on sleep turns. Most likely Venomoth is leaving so I won't be adding this to the OP, I'll just keep it here (so I can remember it ;_;) so people can see how it was built. Anyway the supporting "check breakers" are Virizion and Houndoom. Virizion can soft check opposing Venomoth which is always nice, break steel and pressure fire types, break Jellicent, and weaken/kill most sucker punch users. It also has helped in weakening Escavalier. It also can sweep teams itself. Houndoom traps Scarf Delphox and puts emboar in Sludge bomb range after Fire Blast damage and Stealth Rock. I changed Steelix to Camerupt because 1. I hate Mega Camerupt and 2. Steelix helps vs Tyrantrum, a huge issue for this team. Qwilfish sets up spikes to help with rolls but also has Intimidate to further aid Venomoth and Virizion in setting up. Lastly I choose Mr. Mime for my fast mon because 1. Mr. Mime is dank af, 2. Mr. Mime can weaken Steelix with Focus Blast, and 3. can support the team with Healing Wish allowing Venomoth to be able to come in several times early game on rocks to pressure its checks to come in on hazards and come back to life late game.
Adding another team once I finish it and plan to work on more
Changing styles to semistall, arguably one of the best play styles as it actually beats Exploud, post if u want but honestly at this point I can just finish the thread with MainEvent and MrAldo's help. I'd greatly appreciate teams though, so if you have a team that is you think is really good and want to share please do!
Semi-stall is very good atm and has always been relatively consistent. I prefer it over full stall because of its capability to react more due to the inclusion of more strategies + offensive presence. Generally speaking, you're looking at 4 defensive mons + a win con (that usually acts as an additional wall/check to other stuff) + a cleaner. Of course, these rolls can overlap or differ a bit, but this is the general structure you'll find when looking at these teams.
Spikes tend to play a pretty big role on a lot of these archetypes, and you'll usually find Qwilfish or Roselia occupying that role, but I've been fond of Ferroseed in particular (even though it isn't ranked in the VR thread when it should be).
It's one of the few defensive Pokemon that doesn't allow Venomoth to freely set up on it; in fact, it can beat Venomoth one-versus-one with Gyro Ball + Leech Seed or cripple it with Thunder Wave + Iron Head. Ferroseed in general is great versus opposing defensive teams because it can freely set up Spikes on the Fairy and bulky Water while not giving a free switch-in to the Steel-type thanks to Leech Seed, in contrast to Roselia. In comparison to Qwilfish, not being weak to Ground moves and Volt Switch gives it a lot more opportunities to lay Spikes down. In addition, Ferroseed performs admirably against a lot of the hazard removers, really only struggling with Hitmontop and Fire Bast Flygon, but it can wear down both quite easily with Leech Seed anyway. The most consistent Ferroseed set I've found is Protect / Leech Seed / Gyro Ball / Spikes, with a focus on SpD evs for Venomoth (usually enough to take three Bug Buzzes from Sub moth and two from LO at +1, so 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 Sassy works if you're using Gyro Ball; otherwise, Careful is good). As I've said before, Thunder Wave is also good on it because it doesn't allow Fire-types to freely swap in on it, although if you're using T-wave, Iron Head is better over Gyro Ball for obvious reasons. Knock Off and Seed Bomb are also good on Ferroseed if you don't want to use Protect in tandem with Leech Seed if the utility of one of the two moves makes your team stronger. The amount of options you have when using it is very nice, and its ability to check certain offensive mons such as Tyrantrum and Exploud while providing additional utility with Iron Barbs makes it consistently useful. Very underused and underrated mon. Speaking of options, Stealth Rock might seem like a good option in tandem with Spikes because it frees up your building a tad, but I don't recommend using SR + Spikes since you're putting too much pressure on it to fulfill two very important roles, and if you lose it to a stray Fire move, you put yourself in a really bad position that could have been avoided before the match started.
beginning this now to organize my thoughts for the OP, whether I add a team or not depends on if I figure out how to beat Sigilyph...
A few things I plan to add eventually:
1. I want to make the team description/roles area more in depth by taking at good team and showing specifically how it was built. Most likely this is a change I'll be incorporating on my own over time.
2. Expand the threats section by giving counters to each threat. I'll do it in this post as an example for later. I'm excluding fast modes from this for now as there are so many for each one.
- Pokemons you enjoy using in this style
later im tired - Roles the style needs to fill ~A wincon: Something that can win in the end (duh..) that can provide utility though out the game ~Speedy cleaner: A choice scarf Pokemon or Fletchinder basically that can revenge kill when needed and sweep late game. ~Defensive back bone (2-3): A core of defensive Pokemon with good synergy. ~Hazard (s): Just stealth rock is fine I guess, but while the more the better!! ~Cleric: Depending on the team itself, having Heal Bell for toxic is great. - Threats to the style W.I.P.
Psycho Shift + CM Sigilyph:
LO Sigilyph:
Exploud:
Clawitzer:
Mega Glalie:
Tangrowth:
Mega Camerupt:
Houndoom:
Jellicent:
Drapion:
Tyrantrum:
Hitmonlee:
Meloetta:
Samurott:
Emboar:
Recoil.
Braviary:
Durant:
Delphox:
Scrafty:
Virizion:
Fletchinder:
Gurdurr:
Dugtrio:
Steelix:
Escavalier:
Amoonguss:
Hazards and Poison also help to beat a lot of these. Don't feel pressured to try and work out some complicated puzzle to fit as many as these as possible, instead make a team that has a plan on how to beat them. Many of these are also beaten by specific sets like Grass Knot boar vs Emboar so look out and play smart!
This thread actually is almost done, we've finished every important play style. All that is left really is fixing up the descriptions and making them actually good, which I'll being doing on my own for the next week. For fun, the next week will be Sticky Web week, as Sticky Webs with the drop of Smeargle have become relevant again. (Enjoy the GIF, it is from the best Pokemon Generation).
This thread actually is almost done, we've finished every important play style. All that is left really is fixing up the descriptions and making them actually good, which I'll being doing on my own for the next week. For fun, the next week will be Sticky Web week, as Sticky Webs with the drop of Smeargle have become relevant again. (Enjoy the GIF, it is from the best Pokemon Generation).
sorry i havent been adding to this much of late, ive been really busy with college and my overall activity on showdown has gone down. However i did post a webs team pre smeargle drop and i do believe kableye has edited it a tad to make it relevant to the current meta.
HOLY SHIT, FOUND SOME TIME TO CONTRIBUTE TO THIS THREAD. YOOOO!
Im actually terrible at building sticky web (or in general tbh), I feel weak to everything but with smeargle dropping it is a lot more possible to pull off sticky web than it was before thanks to smeargle exteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeensive movepool (it can learn anything besides chatter fyi), it becomes an extremely effective lead so guaranteeing at least one hazard most of the time, smeargle brought relevancy and viability back to sticky web and it can be really dangerous thanks to the myriad of slow wallbreakers RU have.
- Pokemon you enjoy using on the style:
<---- STICKY WEB SAVIOR
- Roles you feel the style needs to fill:
It is a pretty formulaic concept: Smeargle (the other sticky web users are extremely inconsistent or just bad, at least has some consistency) / Wallbreaker #1 / Mon to pressure opposing defog users (flygon and togetic) / Scarfer / Wallbreaker #2 / Something to prevent hazards to go away either through spin or defog (spinblocker, defog punisher or taunt user so a ghost type like mismagius or braviary work for this)
From there you go with the standard of having fighting checks, offensive synergy between mons, etc, etc. But the sticky web formula must be followed in order for it to be sustainable, otherwise it can fall apart really easily against flygon which is everywhere and could defog for free. - Threats to the style
The biggest threat to the style by far since if a sticky web team doesnt have something that stop this from defogging your hazards, you are already in an unfavorable situation and more or less going 5v6 through the match. Flygon being really consistent removing hazards doesnt help so it is imperative to have something to pressure flygon in any way possible, I would say that the style has a natural weakness to it but isnt down right unwinnable since your entire team shouldnt rely on sticky web and ice types exist.
Other hazard removers:
Anti-leads (particularly ones that can taunt smeargle or break his sash through priority or being immune to spore):
Xatu is a straight hard counter to smeargle, lol
And like offense naturally fast mons but scarfers are incredibly dangerous, since sticky web is a form of offense you gotta watch out for these, if the opposing team doesnt have a way to remove hazards sticky web, the hazard, has an easier time dealing with them but still be careful. Scarf durant is BITCHY. Opposing priority is also a threat, fletchider is also BITCHY.
- Examples teams you have built:
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Spore
- Explosion
Kabutops @ Lum Berry
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
I have built a good couple of sticky web teams but some were pretty uncomfortable to use on my experience, this one is like weak to a lot of stuff but it is far easier to use and gets straight to the point,
We have smeargle, sticky web savior, standard lead with rocks and sticky web, and with spore to set at least one hazard safely. Explosion generates impressive amounts of momentum and it hits quite even though smeargle has a pathetic 20 base attack :V Next is exploud, exploud under webs is ridiculous and is a huge candidate to every sticky web team cause it just kills stuff with boomburst, nothing out of the ordinary here. With exploud weakening walls in general, I wanted some offensive duo against other offensive teams, sneasel and medicham are here. Sneasel is one of my favorite mons to use on offense cause it is really consistent thanks to its outstanding speed tier, amazing dual STAB, priority and all that good stuff. Scarf medicham is neat and provide great momentum and safe switches with baton pass.
From there wanted a taunt user and a spinblocker to compress some roles and to feel comfortable. Enter mismagius, this ghost has an amazing niche on sticky web teams thanks to its speed tier outspeeding delphox which is great, pretty neat support option in taunt and will-o-wisp to soft check fighting types and with hex it can nail psychic types for good damage, dazzling gleam is for scrafty cause it is a threat. Last but not least, we have kabutops, a sd variant cause it gives me a win condition, a really important flying resist cause fletchinder is BITCHY and some more priority.
I guess I'll try to help as much as I can to this =o Web offense was always one of my favourite playstyle because it mixes the power of offense with speed control without the need of spreading para, and since offense usually has problems of bulk and can be easily worn down by many choice scarf user or fast hitters like sneasel or jolteon. Pokemons you enjoy using in this style
Setters:
Abusers:
Spinblockers/Defiant users:
Roles the style needs to fill
Setter: Obviously there is the need of a Web setter, a role that Smeargle performs very well, thanks to his access to both Sticky Web and Stealth Rock, with also having utility moves like Taunt/Magic Coat/Destiny Bond/Memento/Spore !
Wallbreakers: wallbreakers are the key of the succes of a web offense, usually there I put mons that can break balanced defensive cores like mola+lix or regencore. Specs Exploud is something that really like to be in a web offense, with his huge power and coverage and his low speed covered by the webs he is a real monster. Also setup sweeper like CM Delphox and SD Virizion really enjoys to be in web offense, because usually things that can revenge kill them are scarf user, that hate the loss in speed.
Spinblockers or Defiant users: are more than a must on a web offense, as you probably won't like to see all your hazard getting removed in a single turn. Mismagius is probably one of the best spinblocker right now, thanks to his access to taunt to prevent the opposite mons to use Defog, and Destiny Bond to take some kill on spinners. Also Defiant users like Braviary are pretty good underweb, pressuring the opponent to Defog without giving you a +2 in atk, and probably a chance to sweep.
Late game cleaner: a fast threat like Sneasel is a really good late game cleaner in webs, being able to outspeed almost everything in the tier bar scarf flying types, that are hit by Ice Shard anyway. The late game cleaner is a mon that appreciates to see his checks worn down by the wallbreakers, so you will probably need to see the sinergy between wallbreakers and late game cleaner when building.
Threats to the style
Fletchinder is probably the scariest threat to webs. With his typing it is immune to the speed drop and the priority given by Gale Wings to Acrobatics make him a real monster for this type of teams if they doesn't pack a resistence like Tyrantrum o_o
Xatu isn't an offensive trouble for web offense, but it can stop Smeargle to setup hazards or to put him to sleep with spore.
Scarf users that aren't affected by the webs are a pain, being able to outspeed almost all the team and get a kill everytime they switch in because of the low bulk of the team.
Unburden Hitmonlee is a threat to web offense, being able to get a +2 boost in speed and sweep the team if weakened enough
Examples of team
Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Sticky Web
- Memento
- Magic Coat
The team is based around Meloetta and Exploud, being both 2 special normal sweeper they share almost the same checks (steelix and rhyperior most notably) and they can sweep team with ease just between they 2. Exploud lures checks to normal types and thanks to scrappy it hits ghsot types too, which is nice! Mismagius was added as a spinblocker, and it helped againist fighting type mons. It can also lure dark types that checks meloetta thanks to destiny bond and dazzling gleam. Tyrantrum and Emboar act as late game cleaner; Scarf Tyrantrum is nice to have in case the webs are off as it still gives some offensive presence while being decently fast, it also checks fletch. Emboar with the expert belt fakes the second scaf user, and thanks to his raw power and sucker punch it can sweep weakened teams really well :)
Replays vs balance this battle shows how difficult can be web offense to play againist, with my 2 wallbreakers getting a kill everytime they switched in because the opponent had no switchins, although I saced Exploud to Amoonguss predicting the spore :( vs another balance in this battle matchup wass too good for me to lose, Emboar got a kill everytime it got on the field, and Tyrantrum had nothing to stop him to press head smash after turn 8, when he made Gurdurr die againist Mismagius.
hazards
hazard control
taunt
clerics
wincons/set up sweepers
