I've got to agree somewhat, almost every other mon I can think of that has either one ability or typing render another ability redundant gets some kind of boost. I'm not 100% sure what that boost should be but perhaps Toon's suggestion has merit. Granted its almost never going to come into effect since it's not worth the loss of an item.. but brings it at least into line with other Klutz mons who equally don't use the ability.
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Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread - Mk III
- Thread starter Dogfish44
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I don't like the idea of giving any mon a one-way no guard. Pidgeot is exception becaue pidgeot sucks. But Golurk doesn't suck.
but tbh I don't really care.
OTHER THING
Dive states that Surf's BAP is multiplied by 1.5 when used on a underwater opponent. Surf says that the bap is doubled (not multiplied by 1.5) in that situation.
Which should be the case here?
but tbh I don't really care.
OTHER THING
Dive states that Surf's BAP is multiplied by 1.5 when used on a underwater opponent. Surf says that the bap is doubled (not multiplied by 1.5) in that situation.
Which should be the case here?
Surf should double its BAP against an underwater opponent, to stay in line with EQ/Magnitude/Bulldoze on Dig and the laundry list of moves that do the same with Fly/Bounce/Sky Drop
Also this follows ingame so ye
This reasoning is bad and you know it. It can easily be argued that Mega Pidgeot doesn't suck and it can easily be argued that Golurk sucks. But I won't because it's entirely arbitrary as to what "sucks" and what doesn't, especially when virtually no one has actual long term experience with Mega Pidgeot to form such an opinion.
And as someone who has plenty of experience with Golurk, I can say with confidence that it is far from top tier (it's a niche pick at best on a Ground-type gym team and I would assume similar on a Ghost-type gym team) and a one-way No Guard with Klutz toggled on would do little to change it, especially with the way toggle abilities work.
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Besides, I see no issue with a one-way No Guard from a "this isn't broken" perspective (assuming Toon's idea). The only thing I would raise is that "is it actually worth it?", considering it will be inferior to forfeiting your item in most cases, only once it loses its item it becomes worth. And toggling ordering second isn't a thing makes it less worth because you can't "surprise" a slower opponent by toggling Klutz on into Fly/Phantom Force spam ordering second and then regain your item the next turn, the one major with item instance you would do this.
Sorry, maybe I accidently conveyed interest in the matter. I don't like such a powerful thing for ability interactions (which are usually meh apart from delibird), with the exception of Pidgeot because Pidgeot is such a shitty mon in my opinion that we can give it fucking focus blast if that would help. For a mega I wouldn't mind bending the rules the make it salvageable. Not a compelling argument yes, probably something closer to fanboyism. But that is my take on it.
Mind you, if you feel it is necessary to give it a boost to Golurk, go ahead. Just let me stop you.
Mind you, if you feel it is necessary to give it a boost to Golurk, go ahead. Just let me stop you.
Clarify for me why one-way No Guard is particularly strong? What exactly does it affect aside from Stone Edge and Dynamicpunch?
Damaging Evasive moves. Being able to negate them entirely while not losing juicy phantom force and fly is very interesting.
But there is a thread on this
Also I changed Surf to x2 due to ingame precedent.
With regards to section "Combo Priority", can we add something like the sentence below to the first paragraph?
Reason: Mostly clarification, with a shaker of salt.Proposed change bolded said:
I am gonna include a
"On Battles with more than 2 pokemon involved, if there is only one opponent as a valid target, any non-recovery move used is assumed to target the opposing mon, except if otherwise specified".
rule
only with better wording ^_^
Since tbh the whole rng thinge is only there to be abused.
Gonna wait a couple days for opposition. But if not you can consider it done.
"On Battles with more than 2 pokemon involved, if there is only one opponent as a valid target, any non-recovery move used is assumed to target the opposing mon, except if otherwise specified".
rule
only with better wording ^_^
Since tbh the whole rng thinge is only there to be abused.
Gonna wait a couple days for opposition. But if not you can consider it done.
Two points on Flower Gift;
(Also we could definitely get away with making it be all stats rather than just Atk/SpD I'm just saying :P)
- It should probably be self-sufficient? As in, it should work on itself, rather than just 'allies'.
- Can we up it to +3/+3? In-Game it provides x1.5 as a bonus, which we usually give as +3 (See: Flare Boost)
(Also we could definitely get away with making it be all stats rather than just Atk/SpD I'm just saying :P)
There was some talk on irc about it. Currently Attract is useless on Cryogonal, Staryu, Starmie, and Mew.
I understand if it's just adhering to cartridge, but can we let attract from a genderless pokemon effect other genderless pokemon for the sake of it being a functional move for them
I understand if it's just adhering to cartridge, but can we let attract from a genderless pokemon effect other genderless pokemon for the sake of it being a functional move for them
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Let's hope I'm doing all of this right.
Combo Priority Clarification: I see no issue at all with clarifying this in the rules. It's the way it's always worked and people ask about it frequently enough, so this shouldn't really have any opposition. Taking to voting.
Flower Gift: The thing about only affecting allies is almost certainly a mistake and I see no problem with buffing it to be in-line with all of the other x1.5 effects. Taking this to a discussion thread.
Agendered Attract: This will probably need a bit of discussion to draw a consensus. Taking to its own thread.
Combo Priority Clarification: I see no issue at all with clarifying this in the rules. It's the way it's always worked and people ask about it frequently enough, so this shouldn't really have any opposition. Taking to voting.
Flower Gift: The thing about only affecting allies is almost certainly a mistake and I see no problem with buffing it to be in-line with all of the other x1.5 effects. Taking this to a discussion thread.
Agendered Attract: This will probably need a bit of discussion to draw a consensus. Taking to its own thread.
I was thinking about stacking trapping moves becoming particularly powerful since the buff to binding band (see: volkraken, tentacruel) so I'd like to propose an addendum to binding band that states that only one partial trapping move can be buffed by binding band at a time. Keeps the initial spirit of the item and removes the somewhat excessive power. Worth noting that stacking partial trappingn moves is still totally viable with this, it just loses 4 dpr and a bit of duration per additional move so that using three partial trapping moves will deal 8 damage per action/24 damage per round in passive damage as opposed to the 12/36 it had been.
Proposal to change the combo list for Rock Smash. Instead of the rather arbitrary and random list it currently uses, I think it would do much better combining with something like punching moves, Karate Chop, Cross Chop, Brick Break, and Dual Chop: moves that you would picture being used to smash rocks and break boards.
Refresh vs. Heal Bell/Aromatherapy
Refresh:
Refresh enables the user to effectively be safe from three status conditions without having to use Rest, but only a few Pokémon have access to it, and I think it costs too much EN. This unique move should see more use in my opinion.
Refresh to 7 EN, maybe 6.
Refresh:
Heal Bell:
The thing that confuses me is that Refresh costs 8 EN, while Heal Bell and Aromatherapy, which both heal more status conditions and extend to the rest of the party, cost only 9.
Refresh enables the user to effectively be safe from three status conditions without having to use Rest, but only a few Pokémon have access to it, and I think it costs too much EN. This unique move should see more use in my opinion.
Refresh to 7 EN, maybe 6.
I get the feeling that what Ooraloo mentioned was kinda meant to prevent what Texas brought up. Except for the fact that yeah, no one uses it :/
Okay another summary post. Council peeps should do this more often.
Texas' Binding Band balancing: I agree that it's kinda overpowered as it is right now, especially when you consider that it'll deal 18 DPA residual next round. I was considerin an alternative of doubling residual damage instead of tripling - easier to remember, and no syntax required (you probably have to Bind > Fire Spin [Binding Band] > Wrap under Texas' proposal). Will move to Discussion soon(TM).
FMD's Rock Smash balancing: Uhm so far no support in the form of likes. So until it gets a few, I hope we can sweep it under the "ain't broke don't fix" rug.
Oora's anti-Deck pedantry: Well, there goes another relic from Deck age. You young whippersnappers really never appreciate or conserve the history here. Will move to Voting soon(TM).
SL42's Refresh balancing: See FMD's above. Rally some likes and we'll see - Energy has always been an abundant resource in most battles that I doubt this will have any impact.
Texas' Binding Band balancing: I agree that it's kinda overpowered as it is right now, especially when you consider that it'll deal 18 DPA residual next round. I was considerin an alternative of doubling residual damage instead of tripling - easier to remember, and no syntax required (you probably have to Bind > Fire Spin [Binding Band] > Wrap under Texas' proposal). Will move to Discussion soon(TM).
FMD's Rock Smash balancing: Uhm so far no support in the form of likes. So until it gets a few, I hope we can sweep it under the "ain't broke don't fix" rug.
Oora's anti-Deck pedantry: Well, there goes another relic from Deck age. You young whippersnappers really never appreciate or conserve the history here. Will move to Voting soon(TM).
SL42's Refresh balancing: See FMD's above. Rally some likes and we'll see - Energy has always been an abundant resource in most battles that I doubt this will have any impact.
I want to propose buffing pinch abilities (Blaze, Overgrow, Swarm, Torrent) to +3 BP, instead of +2, for two reasons:
1) Other abilities which give a +50% boost in-game (such as Mega Launcher or Strong Jaw) give +3 BP in ASB, not +2
2) Pinch abilities are pretty mediocre atm, giving only a very minor boost and, most importantly, only for a couple actions at most. Buffing it at +3 would likely not even make them that much good, let alone broken.
1) Other abilities which give a +50% boost in-game (such as Mega Launcher or Strong Jaw) give +3 BP in ASB, not +2
2) Pinch abilities are pretty mediocre atm, giving only a very minor boost and, most importantly, only for a couple actions at most. Buffing it at +3 would likely not even make them that much good, let alone broken.
Given the support and barring any objections/proposed alternatives I'll push through my proposal re: binding band and zara's proposal re: pinch abilities on thursday
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