OU CCAT: Nidoking Edition

POLL IS CLOSED

I put up only the Pokemon that actually had points.

So nobody asks this:

Metagross66 said:

Edit: There are some people that voted for Rotom-W only (para set). Does that count toward CBtar+Rotom-W votes cuz Rotom-W alone is not on the poll...?

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I put Rotom-W as its own entity.

• Jirachi (Wish) & Starmie (LO/Rapid Spin) - 1
• Whimsicott (Support) - 1
• Hydreigon (Stallbreaker) - 6 pts.
• Jirachi (Wish) & Rotom-W (Scarf) - 5 pts.
• Gyarados (Sub + DD) & Sableye (Stallbreaker) - 5
• Latios (Calm Mind + LO) - 5
• Celebi (Baton Pass & TWave) - 7 pts.
• Skarmory (Spikes) & Rotom-W (Choice Specs) - 1
• Terrakion (Choice Band) - 1
• Tyranitar (Choice Band) & Rotom-W (Thunder Wave) - 6
• Dragonite (ParaShuffle) - 2
• Gallade (Bulk Up) - 4
• Conkeldurr (Sub + FPunch) - 7
• Scizor (Choice Band) - 2
• Ferrothorn (Spikes & TWave) - 3
• Celebi (LO + TWave) - 10 pts.
• Lucario (Nasty Plot) - 9 pts.
• Virizion (Swords Dance) - 11 pts.

So the top three are,

• Lucario (Nasty Plot) - 9 pts.
• Celebi (LO + Thunder Wave) 10 pts.
• Virizion (Swords Dance) - 11 pts.

So, now that we have our first teammate, we need to get another teammate! Nominate teammates that will support both of the above Pokemon, or if the two Pokemon on the team at the time aid it. Nominations for the second teammate will be going on until Friday, December 2nd.

I could have sworn CBtar+rotom had 9 points instead of 6, but w/e. Virizion won.

Virizion would actually make for a nice partner to the core I suggested earlier. It softens up stall teams easily.

Edit: There are some people that voted for Rotom-W only (para set). Does that count toward CBtar+Rotom-W votes cuz Rotom-W alone is not on the poll...?

The two duo has great offensive synergy, but it is still walled by a physical wall + special wall. Sableye, Reuniclus, and Skarmory are problematic for Virizion / Chansey, Blissey, and Gastrodon are problematic for Nidoking. We still need a good wall-breaker.

I will come up with one later :p

Sableye is great for that role. Also; reuiniclus is pretty problematic for nido, so sable is great to beat that.

Besides that; i guess you could always use mixnape?

Straw Hat said:

I second Tinkerbell Celebi and, if this set is chosen, another potential partner would be:

Lucario@Life Orb
4HP/252 Sp Atk/252 Spe
Inner Focus
Timid
-Nasty Plot
-Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse
-Vacuum Wave
This thing is a BEAST! Here are some calcs (I use the Smogon damage calculator, but make a pokemon with the same stats for BW pokes. Feel free to check my calcs.)

Lucario@Life Orb +2 252 Timid Aura Sphere vs 252/0 Bold Blissey: 75.9% - 89.4%, OHKO with a bit of residual damage
Lucario@Life Orb +2 252 Timid Aura Sphere vs 252/0 Bold Eviolite Chansey: 63.4% - 75%, a clean 2HKO
Lucario@Life Orb +2 252 Timid Aura Sphere vs 252/168 RelaxedFerrothorn: 101.1% - 119.3%, OHKO
Lucario@Life Orb +2 252 Timid Aura Sphere vs 252/0 Impish Skarmory: 93.4% - 109.9%, OHKO with SR
Lucario@Life Orb +2 252 Timid Aura Sphere vs 252/224 Careful Jirachi: 42.6% - 50.5%, 2HKO with SR and 1 layer of Spikes

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I still think NP Lucario would be a good partner. It OHKOs/2HKOs all the walls that bother Nidoking and/or Virizion including, but not limited to: Blissey, Chansey, Reuniclus, Gastrodon, etc.

Nominateing DD+Sub Gyarados seperate from Sableye.

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Moxie
EV's: 80 HP / 184 Atk / 20 Def / 20 SpD / 204 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
-Dragon Dance
-Substitute
-Waterfall
-Bounce

Nominateing Wish Jirachi seperate from Rotom-W

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP, 224 SDef, 32 Spd
Nature: Careful (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Body Slam / Thunder Wave
- Wish
- U-Turn / Stealth Rock / Fire Punch / Protect

As I mentioned in my post about BulkyTaunt Gyara, Gyarados completements Nidoking nicely, and also complements Virizion, with it's resistance to Fire.

In fact, between Virizion, Gyarados and Nidoking, all types except Dragon, Flying and Psychic are resisted.

I'd say that's a solid core, especially as we can use something like Jirachi as a Steel type, and a status spreader/Hazards. Jirachi is very flexiable, so the set might end up changeing depending on what the final team ends up as. However, Wish/Para support seems very appealing now, with the current team setup.


Jirachi/Nidoking/Gyarados/Virizion gives us a solid base. All types are resisted. Jirachi can support this further with Wish. Needless to say, that is the focus of Bulky Offense, resistances and longevity, while not sacrificeing power.

I'm not too keen on suggesting Lucario for a Bulky Offense team. It might end up displaceing Nidoking... and it's not exactly bulky.

@ Accidental:
I'm not sure who your post was directed at, but Nidoking itself tears Drought teams apart, with the exception of Volcarona, with Sheer Force, LO Sun Boosted Flamethrowers, and Sheer Force, LO, STAB Earth Powers...

Gyarados also does a massive number on Drought teams.

Not sure what's the purpose of using three all-out/setup attackers without dual screen support, especially when smart players can simply switch out problem Pokemon and take out their own counters, letting your team take extra hazard damage. The teammates mentioned above also leave the team with a massive Drought weakness.

Therefore, I'm going to suggest standard Rotom-W to provide both offensive and defensive support, except a variant with Thunder Wave and (possibly) Hidden Power Grass for paralysis support and surprise factor. You can't go wrong with luring.

Other additional teammates I might recommend are Wallbreaker Latios (CM + Psyshock + chosen Dragon move) or good old Jirachi.

One of the best ways for a Bulky Offender to maintain bulky is with good support.
This pokemon has bags of support, is a great switch in to special attackers and she is always a good lure for physical attackers:



CalmBliss

Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Heal Bell
- Thunder Wave

Skore, that Blissey's EV distribution needs work - if you want Blissey to be specially-defensive, you go 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef. Blissey will now not die to the weakest of physical attacks, while it still walls special moves better than your average Blissey.

However, you did a good thing in posting the set that you're nominating. Just like before, guys, if you're nominating a mon, provide the set information. If it is a set that has been suggested before, simply copy and paste it.

As far as wallbreakers go, I second Eggbert's Stall-breaking Hydreigon. CM + LO Latios is a good choice, but Specially-Defensive TTar can still easily soak up a +1 DM. Hydreigon doesn't have any issues with TTar / Jirachi compared to Latios, making it a better wallbreaker. It's immunity to EQ + Psychic is another plus that synergizes well with Nidoking & Virizion. Here's Eggbert's set:



Hydreigon @ Expert Belt
Modest Nature
32 Atk / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Taunt

I also like to make a separate nomination of Swords Dance Heracross. I think that the OU meta is unprepared for Heracross, and nothing is safe from its Attacks. It can easily set up on Chansey / Blissey that Nidoking lures in and start wreaking havoc. Heracross can double-switch into Reuniclus trying to tank Virizion and easily take it out with Megahorn. It can also lure-and-dispatch Skarmory that would give Virizion trouble. Heracross can be EV'd to be faster than even Haxorus, making it quite a formidable threat for even HO teams to manage.


Heracross @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Jolly Nature
8 HP / 252 Atk / 248 Spe
~ Close Combat
~ Megahorn
~ Swords Dance
~ Stone Edge

Life Orb makes taking out Skarmory much easier after a Swords Dance, but Heracross does have sufficient bulk to make good use of Leftovers, too.

Pocket, I think Heracross is indeed a great Pokemon in the current metagame, but it suffers from the same speed problem as Nidoking and gives us no significant additional type synergy.

I would like to suggest Physical ScarfNape as another teammate.

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Jolly Nature, (Naive)
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- U-Turn
- Stone Edge / HP Ice

ScarfNape possesses blazing fast speed and the ability to break through common checks and counters. It can threaten SkarmBliss as well as Tyranitar, while aiding Nidoking's switch-ins with a quick U-Turn. An Adamant or Naughty Nature could be chosen if you would prefer the extra power.

Seperately, I would also like to nominate CM Reun.

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast

This set destroys stall-based teams that could give Nidoking trouble, and can set up on a plethora of things. Not much to say, really. I'm sure all of you know the destructive potential this set can have in the right place, and I think this is a suitable role for Reun to perform in.

Lastly, I would nominate (again seperately) Bulky Rotom-W

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 96 Def / 156 SpA / 144 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Thunder Wave
- Pain Split

Slightly tweaked from the standard set, this Rotom is designed to aid Nidoking and Virizion. Specifically, it absorbs the Banded Bullet Punches they are sure to attract, as well as spreading helpful paralysis with Thunder Wave. Volt Switch is chosen over Thunderbolt to further act as a team pivot. (Please tell me if I am being inefficient with my EV spread, as I know I am not the best at creating them)


Edit: Still supporting a WishRachi set, and Raikaria's seems to fit the bill.

they both have a weakness to psychic and ice. a supporting bronzong 4x resists psychic and 2x ice. slowbro and king would also do well from a point of synergy. i will go into specific sets later.

balding2early said:

they both have a weakness to psychic and ice. a supporting bronzong 4x resists psychic and 2x ice. slowbro and king would also do well from a point of synergy. i will go into specific sets later.

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Going with this, it's time for my follow-up. I know it was nominated last round, but it would fit even better in the team now. I would like to nominate CB Scizor for its great synergy with the team and as a Reuniclus counter (Reuniclus with Psyshock beats both Nidoking and Virizion). Here's the set:

^ ligit, why don't you slash in Wing Attack or Arial Ace on the Scizor set? They take care of Fighting types well, otherwise setting them up for a BP KO, and the fact that they are Technichian boosted is very useful.

the trouble is, scizor can't really abuse them well - it does KO a lot of them, but the only targets you're hitting for more damage are Conkeldurr and Toxicroak - the rest are dealt with just Scizor's standard moveset, i.e. Virizion eats uturn terrakion eats Bullet Punch, etc. Besides Nidoking resists all of conkeldurr's movepool and we can deal with Toxicroak or that along with other threats atm with other Pokemon.

Here are my impressions of the noms:
Raikiria
I am not too certain about Gyarados. Just because Nidoking is immune to electricity and resists rock doesn't make Gyarados an ideal partner with it, imo. To me, Gyarados itself requires lots of team support (weak to SR, prone to being revenge-killed, Rotom-W weak, Rain support), so I really rather not add Gyarados.

That said, Gyarados & Jirachi does make a solid defensive core together, and Jirachi can provide Wish support to keep Gyarados alive. Gyarados's Intimidate also comes in handy. Although I'm not much of a fan of Gyarados in this team, Jirachi covers lots of threats to Nidoking / Virizion. It covers Gengar, Psychic-types, Kyurem / Blizzard Spammers, Tornadus, Latios, and Latias, all of which pose problems to Nidoking and Virizion. If it packs Fire Punch, Jirachi can roast Scizor. Paralysis support is also very much welcome.

Straw Hat:
NP Lucario would make this team heavily geared in Special Offense :d. However, Lucario is somewhat redundant with Nidoking in that it doesn't offer much defensive coverage. It would be hard to switch-in Lucario, imo, just like Nidoking. Ideally we want an offensive Sweeper that can contribute in the defensive department.

Skore
This is bulky offense, Blissey is more suitable in stall, imo, where teammates can deal with dangerous threats that exploits Blissey's lack of offensive pressure. I try to avoid adding Blissey if I can help it, and I definitely think it can be helped.

Skidilidy
I like your Reuniclus, since it is anti-stall... until it's met by Sableye. ScarfNape is a good revenge killer, an amazing answer to Sun team to boot. Unlike MixApe, its Close Combat actually packs a lot of punch.

Rotom-W is a solid support mon. I suggest HP Grass > Pain Split to soften up Gastrodon for Nidoking. I think the defensive EV spread can also be worked out a little more.

complete legitimacy
Yea, can't go wrong with Scizor, lol. It checks quite a few mons that troubles Virizion (Reuniclus, Gengar, Latios, and Tornadus), and it's a solid revenge killer of Terrakion, Dragonite, and Haxorus.

Good noms thus far. Submit your noms before Zurich opens up the thread for voting!

It's maybe possibly worth pointing out that Jirachi with only Iron Head to hit Gengar's gotta watch out for any set with Disable. Supporting Thunder Wave Rotom-W and Shuffle Dragonite as partners too.

Shuffle Dragonite
Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 104 Def / 148 SDef / 8 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Dragon Tail
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute

Another Paralysis spreader, although one that compounds the Ice weakness further. EVs are sort of random, focused mainly on bulk to preserve Substitutes so it can Roost back up to Multiscale and continue Paralyzing/Shuffling.

@ Pocket - My qualms are that dropping Pain Split and leaving Lefties as Rotom's only form of recover will hinder the team too much. In my teams I have always played very aggressively with Rotom, so it is constantly taking passive SS damage and taking hits on the switch. Of course, this could be rectified by choosing WishRachi as another teammate.

not as much discussion to my dismay, but no more nominations are being accepted!

Same voting system as before with 3 points for first nomination and 1 to 2nd and 3rd. Voting ends in 3 days!

Teammate 2 Ballot

• Substitute + Dragon Dance Gyarados
  
• Wish Jirachi
• Nasty Plot Lucario
• Calm Blissey
• Wallbreaker Hydreigon
• Choice Band Scizor
• Swords Dance Heracross
• Choice Scarf Infernape
• Calm Mind Reuniclus
• Bulky Rotom-W
• Shuffler Dragonite