NOC Medieval Mafia - Game Over: Majora's Maskians Win

Give him a break, it happens to me all the time...

Yeti read:

I was originally quite suspicious of you, Yeti, for originally providing nothing to the thread and then singling out one particular user and largely ignoring everyone else. You posted about UncleSam almost all of the time up until recently, sometimes with arguments that only made marginal sense, and he seemed to answer somewhat satisfactorily, in a way that made him seem pro-town (at least in my opinion he did). Cereza's inability to post now either suggests (s?)he doesn't care or (s?)he needs some help with English, and I'm pretty sure its the former. The Cereza / UncleSam roll didn't and doesn't make sense to me at all, and the fact that you're the head of it made me suspicious of you.

I do think that a mafia would probably be more careful about attacking one person alone, as it's a pretty brash move, one that can go pretty catastrophically wrong. You can't be faulted for trying to promote discussion when it became necessary, and you have posted relevant reads and the like. I would like to know why exactly you felt the need to pursue UncleSam in the way that you did, to the exclusion of everyone else.

My vote continues to be on MK Ultra. (I'm going to include this at the end of my posts to make it clearer when looking back, etc)

Obligatory welcome to NOC pluff.

j-squared said:

[/B]Prime lynch target as it provides us good some good information on multiple users.

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Obligatory asking for more. Also don't say who you think is town, even if its clear you're not going to give evidence to support that, since that just gives information to the mafias about who they should kill. Also asking why we should consider voting a person alluding to having information and revealed in a stupid rather than necessary manner (I consider mine necessary, as if I simply posted a defense, I think we would've mislynched me. Feel free to disagree.) I would also point out that the goal of the game is to attempt to create nonsubjective reads based off of subjective reads and information roles that'll eventually show the mafians. That being said, giving a list of feelings is not attempting to be nonsubjective and therefore looks bad (and if you really put Yeti like that due to your reasoning, then why wasn't it there in the first place? It was a decent explanation, and MUCH better than what you had).

To be fair to kok billymills, he has been posting, though its mainly just BLARG QUAGS I THINK IS MAFIA and, again, showing clear signs he is not reading the thread otherwise (see: him believing I checked Dummy), although his last post proves he reads SOME.

Also, could I get a reasoning on lkk/bagon besides the fact that MB was extremely weird and lkk is somewhat vague? Both are somewhat legitimate reasons (mainly the second over the first, pluff did a nice job pointing out in detail how odd MB acted), but that's the one person I'm not fully understanding from those who have votes on them besides those two reasons.

Yeti, this is the post I referred to. billymills, Rediamond and Brammi all followed shortly thereafter, almost as though they expected this to be the ending of the day. Very nice summary of Ullar so far though, though it IS his first NOC. Also noting that whenever someone says, "NOT TO DEFEND, <USER>", they are then posting a defense. You also just proved everything I said about overreacting when I'm the first to mention you as suspicious today and you jump on it.

I'm going to try something different and ask for people's opinions on who I check, though I will not say who I checked or am considering until tomorrow when I have the result.

And obligatory asking Walrein and Spiffy for what qualifies as good discussion.

Well, I would post my suspicions...If I had any. I'm having a rather difficult time in this game since I believe it's the first NOC game I have been in.

Anywho, some of you guys think my death will provide evidence and what not so I'll happily @@Vote:Cereza@@ if it will help the town in any way.

Quagsires said:

Obligatory welcome to NOC pluff.

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Iirc, jumpluff is not new to NOC. I can't remember what game she played before this, but I have a faint recollection that it never happened.

Anyway, I'm not really understanding Snike and others for being satisfied when their "scummiest person atm" makes one wimpy post and suddenly backs down from what they said before and jumps to some other established wagon. It's a scum move, and it's really not helpful if everyone abandons their original suspicions for what the latest aska/billy/yeti/BT suspicion is.

I'll say one thing: MB is weird. I can 100% agree on that. I've played with him *insert number here* times, and I still don't understand him at ALL. I'm sorry if I'm being overly vague, just ask for more details. I'll give them to those who ask. I'm used to just giving whoever I'm suspicious of/want lynched, and typically it either bandwagons, or people ask for more details that I post. It's just the way I've played mafia, so my bad. I'll try to work on that.

Nonetheless, if you ever need me to give more info, I will. And for a closing sentence or something, I'ma agree on Quags that, if something seems weird on me, just say it. I don't take people lynching me for info or just wanting more details bad, but just curious on things that I can attempt to explain. After all, what I think when it's submitted and what's shown to you all might be completely different, y'now?

(P.S. Snike, mind elaborating on what you meant from what you said? I don't really get what your outputting... Or I might've just explained it above for all I know.)

Quagsires said:

I'm going to try something different and ask for people's opinions on who I check, though I will not say who I checked or am considering until tomorrow when I have the results

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You seem to be pretty sure you're going to survive tonight. There's only one thing that bugs me about what you just said; How can you be so sure if you claimed cop and the doctor is already down?

My opinion on yeti is basically the same as aska's. I never really understood the Sam wagon, as I felt he did a pretty good job of looking town, and thus, Yeti's focus on Sam seemed a bit weird. I do, however, know that you are an intelligent player and would not focus very hard to mislynch 1 town player, so it could be a genuine read. I know you hate tldr posts so it could be a bit biased of a read against Sam, but I don't really know what he did that was so scummy. You could say his defensiveness and attempts to divert attention from himself but he does that in every game where he is vocal, so it isn't really a scum tell imo. This is turning into more of a read on Sam then Yeti, but they are very related in my opinion. I wouldn't think every experienced player is town, and I'm getting stronger town reads from the others than from you, Yeti. However, I do get a bit of a town read from you, after looking back, so yeah, I'm not really sure at the moment.

@Quagsires. I'd recommend you check someone such as dummy, rediamond, jalmont, loudkirbyking, etc, who, due to few posts (and weak ones when they do post), become hard to read.

Gonna underline key lines to draw people's attention to them in the tl;dr. Ugh, I might as well get out a highlighter, it's gonna look like a mafia update. (SORRY FOR THE TL;DR I SHOULD'VE DONE THIS ONE IN BULLETS)

Convenient that Yeti asked for everyone's opinions on her, since I was planning to post mine anyway. I was a little surprised to see this change of the topic, actually, but since conversation wasn't very focused afaict, I guess it's not really so bad. I think discussing Yeti is very productive, since we've generally shied away from the more active players in discussion except for UncleSam and, to an extent, billymills and zorbees.

I still find her question a little suspicious though and I think people should observe her behaviour more closely after they post their opinions to determine if it changes any.

I find it hard for me to give an intuitive opinion on Yeti; she's slippery somehow, hard to get a read on. I generally found her posts to be constructive and characteristically Yeti, but that's what I'd expect from her. What I didn't expect from her is that for someone who has posted a lot she hasn't really offered many opinions except about UncleSam and somewhat Quagsires. She did post a lot of opinions on people in #247, though, which was a solid post. She has been claiming for awhile that she's still going through the thread, and I assume her last post referred to her posting the results, so maybe we'll see some more opinions from her then and I'll be able to get a clearer read.

I talked a bit about Yeti in my Ditto analysis, and I was usually willing to excuse her actions a bit since they were timed well and overall, her relationship with Ditto was not pure buddy-buddy. She knows she's developed something of a reputation for 'low-profile mafia, talkative villager' in past mafias since it's always brought up against her, and that's something she can use to her advantage. If I were considering a lynch on Yeti, I would be a) tempted to lynch her in order to start unravelling the tangled-up mess between her and all the other talkative users b) hesitant to lynch her since I find her perspective interesting and valuable (which is why I can't help but notice she isn't offering as much as it would seem from her high amount of posts itt).

I wanted to talk a bit about the whole push on UncleSam, but I'm saving that. Suffice to say now I found it justified but possibly overblown, though I found Yeti's behaviour wrt UncleSam very characteristic and believe it was town-motivated. Her focus on him was a little strange as zorbees just posted, but I don't see it as out of the ordinary.


It's unlikely that Yeti and UncleSam are on the same team since she pushed him very hard from the beginning and almost drove him to lynch, and surely that is obvious to everyone. It is possible that Yeti, UncleSam, and billymills coordinated it, though I find that odd since billymills ended up voting Cereza instead of forcing a no lynch, which is easier to blame on Spiffy, but such a risky gambit would be pointless, especially since the way it is right now if Sam died suspicion would fall on Yeti. It's a little annoying for me since I happen to think Sam is very scummy, so that leads me to tentatively declare Yeti as town, and I can only speculate privately as to the reasons for Yeti's relationship with billymills (which may well be billymills buddying her from the scum side if Yeti is indeed clean and vice versa, but I'm more inclined to think they're on the same side). It is also possible that billymills and Yeti are both scum and UncleSam was a scumpush to get him out of the way, but billymills using UncleSam's subbing as an excuse to lynch Cereza was either an act or more likely disproves that.

I'd like to ask specifically Yeti a question (three, I guess), and that's 'What do you think of the following users: Brammi, Blue_Tornado, and Paperblade?'

And I want to know from billymills exactly what he thinks about user: Yeti especially, and what it would take from her for him to lynch her. (Making the lynch/vote distinction billymills made earlier in the thread.)

tl;dr: Yeti/billymills relationship is a bit suspicious on both sides, Sam push was strange but predictably Yeti, Yeti posts a lot but needs to give more of her own opinions on users not named Quagsires and UncleSam, generally found Yeti to be behaving townie but hard to get a read on her motivations because of what I just mentioned.

aska / Quags: Yeah, I've played NOC RTMs and I played both Lockdown Mafias. To be honest they were both kinda unfairly easy wins for me as mafia; in the first one my mafia and I just barely paid attention while the village killed itself and in the second one there was no cardflip so we just took over the village with some well-orchestrated quote chains and attacks on inactive users. I've never been village (before this game obviously do I even have to say it). aska did not play in the second one though, no way.

Decent post from Cereza, though obviously Quagsires needs to plan ahead. Frankly if Quags is the AC, which I sincerely doubt, he shouldn't be asking us who to check. It should be obvious, especially since we've constantly been posting about it. Check one of the activeish users who have been sliding along looking active lately but really aren't. Low-tier active users who are hard to get a read on. There are a bunch of them. Or else check one of the more prominent users so we can begin to untangle everything, though you're risking them dying, I guess, but if one of them died and you didn't and were not hooked that would be obvs. very suspicious. In fact if we allow Quags to live I am fully expecting him to be hooked/'hooked' tonight since they may have hooked wick in order to stop self-protect or something if they knew his role.

ETA: wait wtf did Cereza just go kamikaze

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS GAME

j-squared said:

I'm not sure if I'm going to be tomorrow before the deadline, so I'll make a vote now.

@@VOTE Snike@@

Prime lynch target as it provides us good some good information on multiple users. Not sure what his role is that he hinted at earlier, but I feel safe that he isn't some sort of inspector or other power-role (hopefully he wasn't that stupid to draw that much attention to himself).

Scum-lean as he is trying to stay out of the spot-light as much as possible, kinda wishy-washy, can't make up his mind on how he feels about certain players.

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Agreed with the last paragraph somewhat, was extremely bothered by Snike implying he had an item or PR (more likely the former) with his callout on billymills and could not help but find it strange. Would help if billymills elaborated a bit on this whole item saga so I can work out where Snike is coming from and if Snike was a bit clearer, since he's already made a target of himself (I am NOT asking you for your role, Snike, but how sure are you that whatever your result incriminates billymills?).

However I find this really dodgy, it was terrible enough when billymills and zorbees did it on Sam but billymills later tried to explain that as experimenting so ok...

Prime lynch target as it provides us good some good information on multiple users.

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This bit. I couldn't help but find this justification weird. Are you lynching primarily because you think Snike is scummy or because you think a Snike mislynch would still be useful, j^2? What information do you see us sourcing if Snike flips scum, and what about if Snike flips town?

It seems like your focus jumps to a different player from post to post, which isn't really a bad thing (trying to get others to speak up), but definitely makes it hard to get a read on you. It also makes it seem like you are anti-confrontational, which is a bad thing in mafia (what are you hiding?).

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I don't understand this at all. The first is true except wrt UncleSam and somewhat Quagsires, but the second not at all. Yeti is one of the most confrontational players in this game imo, short of UncleSam and Blue_Tornado. If anything I would say the suspiciousness derives from her being unwilling to commit her opinions on people, not from being unwilling to confront said people. She is very hard to read though.

Also, since DetroitLolcat answered my post, I guess I will give my opinion on his response. Standard, satisfactory activity response, though I still don't know why someone who anticipated being very busy with school would join a highly active NOC mafia, regardless of how much they enjoy NOC.

Sorry to keep dominating this thread, I'm done posting now:

@Unvote@

lkk did answer, I can't say it was enough to clean him in my eyes obviously but it was a pressure vote.

I would instead move my vote to @@Lynch Brammi@@ because I am alarmed that everyone is letting his last post slide after his increasingly scummy behaviour (my read on ILL moved from 'town-motivated person with an MS mindset' to 'mafia-motivated person exploiting changed environment', though I am sure he is busy irl too.)

@@Vote: Empoof@@

Ok, it's probably a bit late to be getting wagons going, we rather lack the time. But hopefully we can bid for more.

Firstly my absence, you may have noticed I only popped in to pick up a tutor and a couple of other small posts. I've been doing stuff irl. Two parties plus a crisis with my living arrangements. But all that is done now, so I concentrate on playing again.

Ok Empoof. You are content-less. You keep up steady posting but you offer nothing in the way of proper analysis and couple of line reasoning that really doesn't cut it considering the amount of stuff that needs to be discussed. I know lack of flip on day 1 left us without much to go on, but that should mean we should be trying more stuff, hypocritical I know, but you've actually been here. Active lurking is really bad, and while I know it is chronic here, kok being another fine example, it seems to me that you are putting in less effort than you are really capable off which makes you the worst offender in my books in that regard. So that's why I have voted you.

@@Vote Blue_Tornado@@

Last cycle I posted a joke vote about Blue_Tornado because I thought he was being an absolute dickhead. He still is, but that is now unimportant. The more that I read his posts, the more and more I begin to become suspicious of Blue_Tornado. I have been highly inactive this game, and I have my reasons for not posting regularly, but I have been following the thread very carefully and something that I have noticed is that, time and time again Blue_Tornado is incredibly quick to criticize the posts of others and accuse people. Most of his posts are virtually contentless, however there is a large number of them.

On the other hand, as can be seen when I posted completely retarded and bullshit reasoning for my troll vote, and on the numerous other times he has been called scum, he has jumped down the throat of the user who called him scum, and actually done very little to prove himself to be clean, his preferred method seems to be to slander the person who accused him, or tell them that their post is inadequate.

Blue_Tornado seems very keen to deflect any and all criticism away from himself at all times and, as has been pointed out by numerous other users, so I'm not going to bother typing up more, has also been buddying several other users.

I also think Yeti is suspicious, but I am not going to post anything on her, as I would only be echoing jumpluff's thoughts.

askaninjask said:

I would like to know why exactly you felt the need to pursue UncleSam in the way that you did, to the exclusion of everyone else.

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Your read on me: "suspicious, but I can't feel I can commit to any solid claim as to your alliance."
My read on you: D1 you and zorbees seemed fairly close, but you've distanced your opinions D2 (overnight discussion?). You still maintain negative vibes towards Quag and suspect him (250, 266, 595, 634). My conclusion would be you and Quagsires are NOT on the same team, yet he claims to have cleaned you. Even if he flips scum, it's not a clear indicator your suspicions of him and his "cleaning" you makes you village - you could be mafia slowly pointing out the guilt of your partner who fell under suspicion.
In addition, I see no suspicions/attacks directed at you in the first ~350 posts, or D2's. I find it very interesting you have managed to avoid any suspicion whatsoever. It's almost like your scumbuddy Quag is trying to clean you while you cast suspicion on him, knowing he will flip scum, and hope your carefully-scripted posts that avoided suspicion (again, as I said, I found it interesting Quag cleaned someone who HAD no real antagonisms against him) will carry you for the rest of the game.
However, I also find nothing PARTICULARLY note-worthy, I will address the one thing I do in my zorbees section. As such, I must deem aska likely not-scum.

As for why I hunted UncleScared like a boss, well, who else was going to? I will bullet my thought process which has been said before but perhaps across numerous posts:

• UncleSam began the game with an amusing tl;dr and proceeded to continue tl;dring, casting shade onto various users
• US has set himself up as village hyuckster, a funny guy who is promoting discussion. He ALSO has established himself as a loudmouth who is going to attack you right back.
• There are numerous new players who will want to avoid confrontation with US, even if they are village, he may be able to work their posts into scumtells as they don't know how to avoid it.
• There are numerous players experienced with US who simply cannot be bothered to confront him and deal with his tl;drs aimed at them (or they may be mafia and disinterested in seeing his suspicions cast their way).
• This means if US is a mafian (or wolf, as billy I think pointed out, he seemed awfully eager to be inspected when only the mafia apparently show up 100% on inspects, so perhaps WolfSam has an IPV/decoy?), he will probably go relatively unchallenged, because as many of you think, he LOOKS village.
• I felt there were enough deflections, attacks on others, and tl;drs that US may be simply putting on a big show, despite being scum, and deciding to take him to task.
• US never reacted particularly scummishly, but I expect he would be carefully crafting his replies to avoid exposing himself further.
• When US subbed out, his opinions remain, and Cereza has never presented a good defense (or made a valid post really) for herself. Thus, if we had no confirmed scum, though I felt US was likely, at least we could get some very detailed reads from a villager, amidst all the attacks.
• YMMV on whether, with no particularly strong scumtells from anyone D1, lynching possibly-deflecting & loud US to confirm his alliance and see his info proved valid.
• He subbed out when Brammi began opposing him. Was he upset his scumbuddy was getting TOO antagonistic, did he simply not have enough time to deal with "Yeti stop trolling and post seriously" or was he unprepared for what he ruled off as "trolls in the sausagefest" but really felt was a serious attack?

These were my thoughts on US, and I am still suspicious of him, but I almost feel like Cereza would have to have a really retarded mafia team to not give her something to work with so she doesn't make idiotic posts like the one I have quoted. Then again, she could be wolf, and flying solo!

Quagsires said:

Yeti, this is the post I referred to. billymills, Rediamond and Brammi all followed shortly thereafter, almost as though they expected this to be the ending of the day.

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I can't explain their actions, but billy has been riding my dick all game with regard to logical thought processes. That post was expressing I agreed with SCall or US lynches, and I put my foot down on the one I felt I had a better scumread on or who would at least be giving a lot of good reads, since though US is a blowhard, he isn't a moron, and might be onto something with his infinite call-outs.

Cereza said:

Well, I would post my suspicions...If I had any. I'm having a rather difficult time in this game since I believe it's the first NOC game I have been in.

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rly now. You don't have any thoughts on peoples' interactions, or their posts, or claims, or ANYTHING? Even if you can't root out how grammar inflections make someone scum, surely you must have SOME feelings or other on how someone has been acting.

Tell your scumbuddies to shape up feeding you info, dang.

Cereza said:

Anywho, some of you guys think my death will provide evidence and what not so I'll happily @@Vote:Cereza@@ if it will help the town in any way.

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This didn't make Ditto look any better, and it isn't helping you. Really guys,
STOP
TRYING
TO
VOTE
YOURSELVES
You look suspicious, or really, incredibly uninvested, and that doesn't help the village at all. We might lynch a villy by legit mistake, as opposed to ACTUAL scumtells, and if you don't give a rip about the game, you don't help us much either by, as you did, voting yourself and not providing a single thought.

askaninjask said:

Anyway, I'm not really understanding Snike and others for being satisfied when their "scummiest person atm" makes one wimpy post and suddenly backs down from what they said before and jumps to some other established wagon.

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tbh I agree with this, there are numerous crapbag posts on D2, inspired by people voting, who then quickly back off. It's almost like this was organized or something, but that's way too many scumbuddies prompting each other then backing off.

Unfortunately, we can only lynch one person a day, so a lot of these crapbag posters who make useless, or flimsy contributions when they get a couple votes, will get off relatively free. Unless the vig starts taking shots at these chumps.

Cereza said:

You seem to be pretty sure you're going to survive tonight. There's only one thing that bugs me about what you just said; How can you be so sure if you claimed cop and the doctor is already down?

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w0w Cereza makes a GOOD POINT. Quagsires, why do you assume the mafia won't take a shot at you? If we hint at too many of their members, and you ARE really the AC, you will die because they'll fear being discovered. Not to mention how long will they leave you around? Do we have a backup doctor/bg??

Suspicious at best.

zorbees said:

However, I do get a bit of a town read from you, after looking back, so yeah, I'm not really sure at the moment.

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Ah zorbees, on to you. Now we see you echoing askaninjask's sentiments! I have noticed that in posts 1-350 and D2 on, you and aska have not once made any antagonistic remarks towards each other. Maybe I missed some in D1's latter half, but you two seem to share several sentiments, without ever really targeting each other.
I sense a connection - if Quagsires flips scum, aska and zorbees may be his mafia buddies. While aska and zorbees take care to not directly mention each other, they also have never really implicated the other, or called themselves out. Perhaps they just really have similar thought processes - their posting styles have differed, but I feel they often share ideas and sentiments.
This makes sense since, like zorbees said, it's unlikely there's not a fair few experienced scum, and Quag has been a winning NOC mafian before.
Neither has done anything particularly scummish, but I get the feeling aska and zorbees may be connected. Until Quags flips one way or the other (or one of them dies first), I'll keep my analysis as: town.

jumpluff said:

If anything I would say the suspiciousness derives from her being unwilling to commit her opinions on people, not from being unwilling to confront said people. She is very hard to read though.

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I would agree the nonconfrontational statement was rather phony, as I have clearly been willing to engage with the tl;driest of users itg, and answer questions/concerns as promptly as possible.

I've held off on opinions mostly because D1 didn't provide anything, which means I didn't want to give any false reads should I die N1, but I made every effort to appear as suspicious as possible so I would be kept alive.

This post is getting tl;dr enough, so I will address your post on me [and billy] as well as my immediate concerns/views of players in this next post. However, note my reads/views on Cereza, aska and zorbees are in THIS POST.

tl;dr:
Cereza is a buffoon and probable wolf.
aska and zorbees never attack each other, and may be connected, but as for now, I rule them likely village.

I understand wholeheartedly if you didn't read my post about you, Yeti, since it ended up being excessively long, but would be interested as to your opinion about them, so if you haven't read them yet (I expect you haven't) a post to that effect would be nice so I know you're not ignoring them :3

(tbh I just skimmed your post to see if you responded to my reads, I will read it myself now)

Response to Yeti edit: LOL OOPS I failed sry. Was looking specifically for my name there.

---


Crux: I'm certainly not complaining about you agreeing with me, but what was it in particular about my read that resonated with you, since my read was fairly wavering?

Brammi said:

@@Vote: Empoof@@

Ok, it's probably a bit late to be getting wagons going, we rather lack the time. But hopefully we can bid for more.

Firstly my absence, you may have noticed I only popped in to pick up a tutor and a couple of other small posts. I've been doing stuff irl. Two parties plus a crisis with my living arrangements. But all that is done now, so I concentrate on playing again.

Ok Empoof. You are content-less. You keep up steady posting but you offer nothing in the way of proper analysis and couple of line reasoning that really doesn't cut it considering the amount of stuff that needs to be discussed. I know lack of flip on day 1 left us without much to go on, but that should mean we should be trying more stuff, hypocritical I know, but you've actually been here. Active lurking is really bad, and while I know it is chronic here, kok being another fine example, it seems to me that you are putting in less effort than you are really capable off which makes you the worst offender in my books in that regard. So that's why I have voted you.

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Lol, thanks. At least someone is putting some sort of pressure on me.

I thought I provided content in my two major posts about who i thought was scummy, but i could be mistaken. I examined who I find scummy and posted about it, Leethoof is still my main suspect despite the majority thinking he's noobtown. If Cereza flips mafia then he'll be my main target of observation.

My thoughts on Yeti: She has done a lot of pro town moves, like activity proding and creating good topics of discussion, but her one post OMGUSing on Staraptor Call is very suspicious in my opinion, and as I've said their interaction shouldn't go unnoticed. I wouldn't say she's town, but I don't have enough evidence to pin her as scum.

And honestly, most of my play revolves around a goddamn cardflip. Which we don't have. Sure, we can try other things, but I'm not going to feel comfortable about ANY of my positions without a cardflip.

Yeti said:

You look suspicious, or really, incredibly uninvested, and that doesn't help the village at all. We might lynch a villy by legit mistake, as opposed to ACTUAL scumtells, and if you don't give a rip about the game, you don't help us much either by, as you did, voting yourself and not providing a single thought.

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Goddamnit Cereza, this is ridiculous. Please, could you give me your opinions so far of at least Yeti, and perhaps you can find SOME sort of scumtell. It doesn't even have to be right, it just has to be SOMETHING.

HOW HAVE YOU STILL NOT DONE ANYTHING okay your interrogation of Quags was nice, but it's logistical and could be said from either mafia or village. EMOTIONS! FEELINGS! SCUMTELLS GOOOOO

EDIT: haha okay, perhaps i shouldn't have said "haven't done anything." But if you could actually provide us with some people you think are scummy i'd be very pleased

lynch vote is still on cereza at this point.

Yeti said:

This post is getting tl;dr enough, so I will address your post on me [and billy] as well as my immediate concerns/views of players in this next post.

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jumpluff said:

I understand wholeheartedly if you didn't read my post about you, Yeti, since it ended up being excessively long, but would be interested as to your opinion about them, so if you haven't read them yet (I expect you haven't) a post to that effect would be nice so I know you're not ignoring them :3

(tbh I just skimmed your post to see if you responded to my reads, I will read it myself now)

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Yeti said:

I will address your post on me [and billy]

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Yeti said:

in this next post.

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it's ok jumpluff not everyone has super pro skimming skills :(
tho maybe it wasn't clear by "your post" I meant you, as you were the last person I had quoted and addressed.

once I finish dessert I will address your post, tho I am hoping billy himself will have posted in the gap. I did read it before crafting my part 1/2l;dr tho.

loudkirbyking said:

To respond to jumpluff and MK(Sorry, just saw it when digging through the thread) about my suspicions on billy...

He did have some better posts, even more so when US was on to kinda spark a fire of doing so. By better, I mean more in the area of contributing more, having things that seemed to stick out as village-ish... but, I also noticed it seemed to kinda go over some of his... for lack of better words lacking posts.

Firstly, he claimed desiring two items: A bell, and parchment. He never really explained why he wanted these, needed these, or how in the world he knew they were in the game. I've yet to play NOC, but I doubt that a random village would require an item to do something... I could be wrong, but I would assume not. Not to mention that, even though he said to just press the issue, everyone seemed to ignore that. I personally would like explanation for both of these things. And even more, in #641, he refuses to answer about it, which makes him seem even more fishy.

Secondly, he seems to be pretty sensitive to whoevers 'buddying' him(Post #236). Perhaps I find it a bit odd that it's more so "Hey, no, I'm not with him. This guy, however, I'm with." It just seems really awkward in there.

I will admit, billy's had some great posts(#293 and #414 for example), but the later(And in some cases his much earlier posts) we get, the more... shorter... and he tends to want to end the day pretty quick. I realize that such a long day could get tiring, but it's probably the best thing to do in order to get info, right?

Also, I'd be willing to point out that billy changing his vote at the last minute caused the no lynch. That seems very odd to me as for why he'd do that to get a no lynch vote. Mind explaining the, literal, last minute vote change?

I'm not going to lynch billy or anything for answers, but that's my thoughts in a nutshell of him, and I'd like some explanation, or perhaps some posts I missed that he talked about these issues and actually explained his reasoning for this. I might've missed it, but don't think so.

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The reason I asked people to be specific in what they wanted explained is this post. You're just being lazy. I have explained all those things in detail, some many times. If you want information about items or my voting, scroll up to the top of the previous page. 641 has opinion on the lynch, as well as all the info you are going to get about the items. No you aren't getting more because you don't need it. If there is serious suspicion based on my item claims, then I am completely fine with explaining more, the problem is there isn't.

I can explain buddying because while I did explain it, it's been a while. The gist of it goes as follows: mafia who know what they are doing are going to attempt villagers who are making good arguments so that they do not attract considerable attention from those people. Mafia who don't know what they are doing are going to stupidly buddy their mafia allies.

This was a considerable part of the reasoning against Staraptor Call and Ditto the previous day, and part of the reason I did not want a Staraptor Call lynch once the consensus was Quagsires was clean. I felt Staraptor and ditto both buddied Quagsires (both were slow to vote him, and quick to move off), however I felt Staraptor was far more Quagsires-specific. Ditto's moves seemed scummy regardless of Quagsires' alliance but Staraptor seemed to be defending him personally. Under the stupid people principle, this would make him stupidly buddying a mafia ally.

jumpluff said:

HUGE POST

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Really good post here, and glad we've finally got some subs who know what they're doing. I have been intentionally soft on idiots/idlers because it really fucked us over in the games you were mafia. I don't know exactly how to deal with them, but I think you did a really good job.

Your post captures most of the chronic idlers and their subs, which is something I really did not want to end up doing, so for that I have to thank you. I agree that they all seem somewhat scummy, but I don't really have much of an argument against any of them. I think this will be a post to refer back to once some people drop.

Just to clarify, I do not think we should ignore idlers. We definitely should not; however, we have to be careful in targeting them because it's very possible they are just incompetent villagers whose activity is counting against them too much.

jumpluff said:

I attempted quoting this, lol.

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There are 4 people I find that I am agreeing with routinely, and who appear to be agreeing with me in return: Yeti, Askaninjask, Zorbees and Paperblade. Of these users I bet one of them is mafia, for no other reason than I am agreeing with them too much. (At the moment I think it is zorbees but that could be any of them.)

I am not paranoid of buddying in any way, I was only trolling BT, Metal Bagon and whoever all those posts ago. If you want to buddy me go for it, but don't think it will make you pass under my radar. I have not had a reason to attack Yeti. I thought her posts against Unclesam were extremely poor and her reasoning for lynching Unclesam extremely weak, until sam fucked up and I had reasoning for lynching him.

I think Yeti has some reservations about Quagsires and other people I find suspicious. She has agreed with me on Unclesam and Staraptor Call, but on arguments involving Ditto and Quagsires I have found no support. Generally however, Yeti has been productive and has not made any huge blunders so I can not see a reason to lynch her. Obviously if Zorbees, Aska, and paperblade all turn clean then I'd be all for lynching her.

Oh dear god she just posted something.

On the positive side, Yeti seems to have reinforced everything I was going to say before she posted: her hastily defended opinions on Unclesam show they were initially weak (points 1-4 are useless, points 5-9 are after I stepped in); we agree when we each find it is logical, notably Staraptor Call and Unclesam, until of course I backed off Staraptor; and again she notes agreement with askaninjask and points out zorbees agreeing with askaninjask.

I hope this was satisfactory pluff.

I now have to agree with Yeti again on Cereza. Cereza is being extremely unproductive and I have a feeling she is trying to channel Ditto's success with voting himself. @@Vote Cereza@@

Could I get a vote count?

I will respond to your underlined points, pluff, as I guess they're the most salient.

BRAMMI:
Weird he went inactive and made one kinda useless post all day, but he's come back only to direct focus onto someone else.
There have been MANY people who have said something against him, or brought him into question, though numerous accounts are fairly mild, so I am inclined to deduce simply by other peoples' actions, and my thoughts that SOME of the experts have to be scum, Brammi is likely a villager, and that's why he has nobody defending him while numerous weak stabs.

BLUE TORNADO:
His early buddying of billy was kinda fishy, and he has been quite jumpy as people pointed out. Crux is right, BT got very pissy about Crux's trolling, which while not particularly helpful, is interesting BT took it so personally/seriously.
BT has been anti-j^2 today, and I doubt he is mafia if: UncleSam, billy, Ditto or zorbees flip mafia. Posts 76/91/95/99/192/200/280/286/586/617 show why I think BT is not allied with them, unless they're intentionally creating conflict between themselves in case one is nameinspected or goes down.
Overall, BT is a bit suspicious, but I have no strong feelings either way - I think he's quite dependant on how other people flip to see why he has been so antagonistic. I think his post with :words: not :noise: stuff might have been a diversion, to look like an active village player, without contributing ACTUAL CONTENT on his views. He also has done a lot of vote-hunting, and prodding, which I found mildly scummy because he is very insistent on lynches and votes, while perhaps a good villager should not want so many votes up front, especially with no good leads, though his "put your vote where your mouth is" shindig is p consistent.

PAPERBLADE:
He doesn't like US and he doesn't like Quag (posts 45/57/188/288/605). These are fairly consistent, as he has shown he doesn't fully believe Quag, and he remains suspicious of Cereza.
I've felt some pro-billy/aska vibes from Pblade, but not particularly strong.
I think he could say more than he does, so while I don't hold a strong opinion either way on him because I don't have an abundance of notes on his views, I lean slightly scummy. He just strikes me as being out of the norm for him, but maybe he's just not used to NOC? I dunno if he's played others.
Regardless, I'd like more content from Paperblade, who seems fairly ready to comply with requests, which makes me wonder if he is a mafia who is playing along with the villagers' demands in order to look like a productive townie.

billymills, Brammi and Quagsires - some combination of the three - are usually mentioned in the same post as someone's suspicions. I find this interesting - it's like numerous people know/think they are united, OR, the people mentioning them are mafia, who know these 3 notable users are NOT with them.
Users in question:
Ullar, jalmont, DLC, lkk, zorbees.
If we toss Ditto into the mix of "common suspects", we get:
Dummy, Rediamond, and aska, to an extent.
Note I'm only looking at D2 FoSes with the above - D1 has even MORE grouping of these users, usually with some BT tossed in with billy and Brammi.

Either these 3 (or 4) users are very suspicious, are suspected by dumb townies, or are being tossed to the wolves by the mafia. And by wolves I mean village. Note how almost all the people suspicious are newfags/inexperienced, or people jumpluff posted about due to their low postcounts and lack of valid contributions.

This is all for tonight, soz guys I'm tired and I have to go fake having done research for our project. I'll conclude more about users tomorrow.

eta: jumpluff if you feel I have neglected any point, or curiousity of yours, please lmk, I may have glossed over something relevant the second time around as I replied and am too tired to recall. I will address it tonight if you are quick, or tomorrow when I am home from class, when I post my other reads.

billy I notice you refrain from stating much of an opinion on my allegiance. interesting avoidance.
also, to billy, why if specifically aska, zorbees and Paperblade flip clean, would you lynch me? do you think I'm mafia if they're clean from my actions, from their comments, or simply because at that point you feel an experienced user has to be mafia, and insist you are clean? why not toss BT/US/Quag/whoever into that mix as well?

I can confirm I am wolf.


I already stated I think one of zorbees, askaninjask, yeti or paperblade is mafia. I don't have enough to specify exactly whom. I am leading zorbees atm, which would make Yeti suspected village.

As many recent posts have shown, we can easily draw lines between the above 4 users and myself. (Of all the links, I think the line between yeti and zorbees is the weakest, but still existent.) If 3/4 of the users flip village, then I would strongly consider a lynch against the 4th, however that's not much of a lynch criterion.

I believe Unclesam is wolf, Quagsires is mafia, and Blue Tornado is clean, but I don't think those users have shown as much of a group-vote-block as the users I listed.

billymills said:

I can confirm I am wolf.

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i see.

eta:
the only thing that bothers me about US being wolf, is Cereza clearly is incompetent, and I wonder why the hosts were quite SO pressed to sub someone for Sam they went with Cereza. I'm not sure Spiffy or Walrein know enough about her to deem her fit for the role, and they could always prod more. But, then again, this does look less suspicious than hunting for a good user to replace Sam, though it risks the win a lot more.
just my thoughts - I find Sam himself suspicious enough, but the only thing that bugs me is Cereza's level of suck doesn't suit the role, unless it's a heavy decoy.

To answer Yeti's question, I was suspicious of you D1 since I felt you weren't contributing, although this has turned around during D2. I'm still a bit uncomfortable with you atm.

And since Yeti isn't the only person here that can pose questions (either that or I am about to die very painfully): Why exactly do people who think that Quagsires is legit find SCall suspicious? The only thing I can see is that he tried to defend Quag's thought process in 271, but then in his next post at 307, he had Quag in a list of 5 most suspicious people. Considering he was subbed for inactivity, it's pretty clear he actually didn't care about the game rather than scumlurkscum.

I also think it's odd that MK still has no opinion worth sharing. He has the fewest opinions of any user that hasn't been subbed (read: pretty much nothing), and even most of the people that subbed in and had to read through 400+ posts have more opinions than him.

Also also, something I noticed but no one else brought up and I just remembered! DLC: Why was there no announcement in the update?

also also also

You seem to be pretty sure you're going to survive tonight. There's only one thing that bugs me about what you just said; How can you be so sure if you claimed cop and the doctor is already down?

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Most constructive post of the whole day imo

Yeti said:

eta:
the only thing that bothers me about US being wolf, is Cereza clearly is incompetent, and I wonder why the hosts were quite SO pressed to sub someone for Sam they went with Cereza. I'm not sure Spiffy or Walrein know enough about her to deem her fit for the role, and they could always prod more. But, then again, this does look less suspicious than hunting for a good user to replace Sam, though it risks the win a lot more.
just my thoughts - I find Sam himself suspicious enough, but the only thing that bugs me is Cereza's level of suck doesn't suit the role, unless it's a heavy decoy.

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^ for those who didn't notice the edit.

Paperblade said:

Also also, something I noticed but no one else brought up and I just remembered! DLC: Why was there no announcement in the update?

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lmao I remembered this prob while I was lying in bed trying to fall asleep, and then forgot in the morning since I don't get out of bed in the middle of the night for mafia.

that's a good question and I wish I had remembered it/thought of it while I was here to ask, I am also very curious as to where the announcement went.

oh also, i will be away this weekend: friday evening to monday morning. should be mostly covered by the night, and i will check smogon once a day if i have cell service, BUT, just a forewarning: don't freak when my activity drops like it does b/c i seem to have to go somewhere during EVERY noc game. i just plain will not be on to post tl;drs and crap, but i will stay up to date and post once a day.

Yeti said:

i see.

eta:
the only thing that bothers me about US being wolf, is Cereza clearly is incompetent, and I wonder why the hosts were quite SO pressed to sub someone for Sam they went with Cereza. I'm not sure Spiffy or Walrein know enough about her to deem her fit for the role, and they could always prod more. But, then again, this does look less suspicious than hunting for a good user to replace Sam, though it risks the win a lot more.
just my thoughts - I find Sam himself suspicious enough, but the only thing that bugs me is Cereza's level of suck doesn't suit the role, unless it's a heavy decoy.

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While I agree about this being suspicious, and something I have considered too, it doesn't hold much weight with me, since we don't know who was available to sub in for UncleSam in the first place. Cereza has similar experience levels to all the other substitutes bar myself, and my offer to sub in was not on the table at the time. It is possible that the hosts were desperate to sub in someone before their wolf got lynched.

Probably she expected she'd be subbed in for townie (a newbie might think there's no pressure there) or mafia (so her teammates can help her out) -- if she even knew what she was getting into, which I doubt. We don't know what information was available to her when she subbed. If she is wolf, I'm sure she bit off more than she could chew. That is one explanation for her lack of reads (#703). She doesn't know how to pull isolation off and she is scared of pissing off both parties.

She has made two good points though, the one with Quagsires and in #632 when she quizzed billy about his lynch vote. If she cared more maybe she could contribute something interesting. So please don't give up just yet, Cereza. If you really are a townie you should try to redeem yourself and not be defeatist, or at least provide some kind of reads. You can win after dying if you're a townie so you should really be getting here and helping out. If you are a townie, which I am not too sure of.

One hint Cereza did drop was in #478, by the way:

*sigh* I just want this day to be over @.@ I have nothing much to say since I have no idea what US was trying to do, trying to explain his actions will be a little hard.

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So she has no idea what US would be getting at. When I subbed in I reread Kaxtar's posts and tried to understand where he was coming from. While I disagreed with him, I found this easy enough because I just had to change my perspective a little, from experienced player with an established profile of likes and dislikes to inexperienced player. I presume from that line Cereza read US's posts and was perplexed. Why? It should be obvious. If UncleCereza is town, US was just playing the suspicious, aggressive villager. If UncleCereza is motivated by wolf or scum status, then, that would make it harder for her to explain, wouldn't it?

Lastly, I'm not sure if rule 10 is referring to a miller or not; you can read it two separate and very different ways.

Do they even read in Tamworth?