Tornadus-T

Tornadus-T's drop in SpAtk is VERY noticeable. I've already lost a couple of matches with it because I expected it to KO things like Terrakion and it just...didn't. Even with Specs it just pokes at a team like a slightly better Gengar, it has no real staying power because the metagame is already set up to beat it.

The only two pokemon it now outspeeds are Starmie and Scarf Tyranitar, neither of which have any business switching into Tornadus anyways. It's not a huge boost. It's defenses are still bad, and it's still weak to SR with Regen if you're trying to talk about it taking hits. If it comes into something like a Celebi Psychic you basically have to hit and run because you're stuck with 25% HP. People are talking about "omg improved defenses!" but you still won't be walling anything with it. There aren't many pokemon in OU who don't have a super effective move against Tornadus-T.

The worst part is that you have to use Timid, or else why bother? that makes it's SpAtk drop even worse because most people will opt to use Life Orb instead of Specs. Oh and it also needs Rain support or else you can't use it.

This thing is really overrated. It will likely stay OU due to the initial hype but in a couple of months I don't see this thing being high on the tier list. Even regular Tornadus was UU for a while. I don't think it'll drop THAT low but it can expect to float around that level after the hype machine dies.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
Tornadus-T's drop in SpAtk is VERY noticeable. I've already lost a couple of matches with it because I expected it to KO things like Terrakion and it just...didn't. Even with Specs it just pokes at a team like a slightly better Gengar, it has no real staying power because the metagame is already set up to beat it.

The only two pokemon it now outspeeds are Starmie and Scarf Tyranitar, neither of which have any business switching into Tornadus anyways. It's not a huge boost. It's defenses are still bad, and it's still weak to SR with Regen if you're trying to talk about it taking hits. If it comes into something like a Celebi Psychic you basically have to hit and run because you're stuck with 25% HP.

The worst part is that you have to use Timid, or else why bother? that makes it's SpAtk drop even worse because most people will opt to use Life Orb instead of Specs. Oh and it also needs Rain support or else you can't use it.

This thing is really overrated. It will likely stay OU due to the initial hype but in a couple of months I don't see this thing being high on the tier list. Even regular Tornadus was UU for a while. I don't think it'll drop THAT low but it can expect to float around that level after the hype machine dies.
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Drop the hate man, this mon has proved it's worth, and everyone admits that it is way better than the old Tornadus, which was solid OU last months... Everyone knows that speed is the most important factor of offensive mons, and Regenerator is just that good..! Add to this the fact that with Sleep Talk in it's choice sets it can be a counter to Tech Breloom and to Spore Amoonguus (normal Tornadus can't do this because it will be at ~10% after a +2 LO Mach Punch, and will be unable to come in again if SR is in play, where Tornadus-T can take the Mach Punch, ohko back, and switch-out to heal), and you have a top-tier mon!
 
alexwolf said:
Drop the hate man, this mon has proved it's worth, and everyone admits that it is way better than the old Tornadus, which was solid OU last months... Everyone knows that speed is the most important factor of offensive mons, and Regenerator is just that good..! Add to this the fact that with Sleep Talk in it's choice sets it can be a counter to Tech Breloom and to Spore Amoonguus (normal Tornadus can't do this because it will be at ~10% after a +2 LO Mach Punch, and will be unable to come in again if SR is in play, where Tornadus-T can take the Mach Punch, ohko back, and switch-out to heal), and you have a top-tier mon!
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I agree with most of this except that Sleep Talk Tornadus can only be a fair check to a hard check to Tech Breloom. Don't forget that Sleep Talk only has a 1 in 3 chance of actually getting the move you want.
 
KurashiDragon said:
I agree with most of this except that Sleep Talk Tornadus can only be a fair check to a hard check to Tech Breloom. Don't forget that Sleep Talk only has a 1 in 3 chance of actually getting the move you want.
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Yeah but no matter what move Sleep Talk choses Tornadus either gets out unharmed (U-turn), while you go to another check/counter (with sleep clause active), or ohkoes (Hurricane and FB both ohko, FB does 100.76% minimum).
 
alexwolf said:
Drop the hate man, this mon has proved it's worth, and everyone admits that it is way better than the old Tornadus
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It's been less than a week. It has proven nothing either way. Talk to me in 2 months after the "new toy" hype dies down. I know that's the only reason why I'm still using it.

And really? Sleep Talk on a Choice set as a serious option? This thing gets worse and worse the more I see of it. And not everyone admits that it's better than Tornadus-I, evidence: my post
 
Jirachi can take anything all day. Scizor can revenge kill. Honestly how you dealt with Tornadus except you can't check it with some high speed pokemon like Jolteon and Starmie and instead sometimes your pokemon may be able to take a hit because its weaker.

I have to agree with Jrr, this thing ain't all that, if you didn't run Tornadus before, why the hell are you running this.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
It's been less than a week. It has proven nothing either way. Talk to me in 2 months after the "new toy" hype dies down. I know that's the only reason why I'm still using it.

And really? Sleep Talk on a Choice set as a serious option? This thing gets worse and worse the more I see of it. And not everyone admits that it's better than Tornadus-I, evidence: my post
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I am not talking about the hype that it has received, i am talking about the real benefits that it has, which we have already seen. It is a fact that he can outspeed Zam, Dugtrio, Starmie and Scarftar. It is a fact that it is much more difficult to wear down and kill with Regenerator. It is a fact that it is still hitting very hard with either LO or Specs.

Also Sleep Talk is a very viable choice for 4 reasons.

First of all, and more important, Tornadus doesn't fear the 2 most common sleep inducers in OU, which means he can come in with almost zero risk.

Second, he doesn't have many viable options for the 4th slot, which means that you don't give up anything important to run Sleep Talk.

Third, he has Regenerator, which means that even if he gets forced out when asleep, it doesn't really care because he doesn't lose any life, unlike normal Tornadus.

And lastly, all 3 of his moves are not bad moves even if randomly chosen. When asleep you have a 66% chance of either hitting very hard with Hurricane or simply U-turn out, and both are good. Even if you chose Focus Blast we are still talking about an 120 BP coverage move with a good typing. Also the fact that Sleep Talk randomly selects your move means that your opponent cannot predict you at all. He cannot bring in his Ttar as he could have done if you were awake and he predicted the Hurricane, since U-turn and FB both hurt. He cannot safely bring in his own Tornadus predicting the FB, because both Hurricane and U-turn hurt... And the same happens with any check of Tornadus. Obviously counters don't care, but you still have a 33% chance to use U-turn which still gives you the upper hand, if you don't want to switch out manually.

Finally when the word ''everyone'' is used in a sentence, it usually has the meaning of almost everyone, as i am sure you already know. When you say ''everyone knows Coca-Cola'', you don't mean that every single person knows it, just that a very big amount of people know it, which is what i meant.
 
jle1076 said:
I don't think it can 2HKO bulky scizor without heat wave
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Specs Tornadus-T's Hurricane vs 248/0 Scizor: 90.96 - 106.99%, ohko after SR

Specs Tornadus-T's Hurricane vs 252/216 Scizor: 71.51 - 84.59%

Even Lefties Tornadus-T 2hkoes bulky Scizor with Hurricane after SR.
 
Do calcs for CB Bo after sr against tornadus t

I really should do calcs for myself next time to avoid committing a burden or proof fallacy.
 
jle1076 said:
I meant to say can you, sorry on an iPhone. So scizor beats this 1 on 1 without heatwave 100% of the time
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Not really. Assuming Scizor comes into you, Specs Tornadus-T always beats Scizor, because it ohkoes, and Lefties TornaduT beats Scizor 87,5% of the time (12,5% is the chance that Scizor has to ohko with CB BP after SR). LO Tornadus-T has 37,5% chance to ohko Scizor after SR, so Scizor wins 62,5%, because after SR and 1 LO round CB BP ohkoes.

But all these are irrelevant anyway, since Tornadus can simply switch out and Scizor must be in full health in order to avoid the ohko from LO Tornadus-T.
 
Hekatoncheir said:
So how do you reliably check this thing?
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for me:

CB Metagross
252hp/4atk/252Sp.def CAREFUL @CB

Pursuit/MM/Hammerarm/whatever

This thing traps and dispatches: Latios/Tornadus

Specs tornadus Hurricane does 30.22%~
35.71%
and Unlike jirachi, he can trap that pesky regen form.
 
Thats actually a very reliable check. Meteor Mash 2HKOS both Tornadus and Latios iirc. Also, most people don't expecty CB Metagross.
 
This is just my guesswork but I'd have to say Thundurus/zapdos reliably checks this thing or even straight up counters. Especially specially defensive zapdos.
 
I've found that Bronzong is actually a nice check, although calling it a counter is a bit of a stretch. Note that I'm using it to cover a particularly specific hole, not because I'm deathly afraid of Tornadus-T.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 242 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball

Hidden Power Fire can go over EQ or Toxic, I guess. Anyway, Bronzong survives Tornadus-T's attacks with health to spare and does huge amounts with Gyro Ball.
 
I've been playing around with Life Orb Tornadus-T today. Though I haven't tested any alternatives so far, Protect seems to have the best use as a filler move for scouting Choiced users. Though some people before me have suggested moves such as Taunt to fill the fourth (filler) slot on the Life Orb set, I think Protect is more helpful in the long run and helps ensure Tornadus-T's longevity.

Specifically, the set I am using is this:

Tornadus-T @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Protect

From my experiences, in general, Tornadus-T still hits hard enough with STAB Hurricane even with the loss in Special Attack. However, the loss in power is noticeable against walls like Ferrothorn, but this con is far outweighted by Regenerator and the higher base Speed.
 
Has anyone run any calcs to see how survivable this bird is vs a Jolteon Thunder?
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No Tornadus-T can survive LO Jolteon Thunder. However, for what it's worth, with 176 EVs in HP it can survive LO Jolteon Volt Switch.
 
I think this mon with Taunt could be a pain to Stall Teams, besides Regenerator which is very important and U-turn.

This and the StallBreaker Gliscor, now with ToxicOrb Roost.
 
By far the best of the 3. At first I though it would be Thundurus, but after continuosly getting Demolished by LO Tornadus-T on Showdown I'm convinced its amazing. With LO+Hurricane you have a non-lock Outrage damaging move which is STAB+More coverage moves... Then switching out is no problem and it has a lot of staying power.
 
Flashstorm1 said:
I've been playing around with Life Orb Tornadus-T today. Though I haven't tested any alternatives so far, Protect seems to have the best use as a filler move for scouting Choiced users. Though some people before me have suggested moves such as Taunt to fill the fourth (filler) slot on the Life Orb set, I think Protect is more helpful in the long run and helps ensure Tornadus-T's longevity.

Specifically, the set I am using is this:

Tornadus-T @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- U-turn
- Protect

From my experiences, in general, Tornadus-T still hits hard enough with STAB Hurricane even with the loss in Special Attack. However, the loss in power is noticeable against walls like Ferrothorn, but this con is far outweighted by Regenerator and the higher base Speed.
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You don't really need to run Focus Blast on Tornadus-T since 0atk superpower will ohko 252/0 Ttar and do 66.3% - 78.6% to 0HP Heatran. Of course this means you'll have to run a Naive nature, which kind of sucks but you'll be rid of Focus Blast's inaccuracy. (btw timid superpower does a ton of damage to ttar still and can OHKO after SR)

If you're willing to try out another move over protect, Rain Dance is a good option. If Politoed goes down before your opponents sand stream user, you can still use Rain Dance lategame to reverse the momentum. This especially useful against Stoutland / Sandslash / etc sand offense teams.
 
PK Gaming said:
You don't really need to run Focus Blast on Tornadus-T since 0atk superpower will ohko 252/0 Ttar and do 66.3% - 78.6% to 0HP Heatran. Of course this means you'll have to run a Naive nature, which kind of sucks but you'll be rid of Focus Blast's inaccuracy. (btw timid superpower does a ton of damage to ttar still and can OHKO after SR)

If you're willing to try out another move over protect, Rain Dance is a good option. If Politoed goes down before your opponents sand stream user, you can still use Rain Dance lategame to reverse the momentum. This especially useful against Stoutland / Sandslash / etc sand offense teams.
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I've been running Focus Blast more or less just to hit Ferrothorn harder, but I'll give Superpower and Naive nature a shot. Tornadus-T isn't that bulky enough to begin with, so running a defense-decreasing nature shouldn't negatively impact the way I run the thing anyway.
 
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