Tornadus-T

[mrb]

That would make it a fairly situational move. In order for sleep talk to be useful you'd obviously have to go for rest talk. If someone could give a good reason for why Restalk is useful for Therain forme, I'll gladly mention Sleep Talk and maybe put a set up.

Sleep Talk is certainly viable on strong Choice users who get all the coverage they need from a few moves. Specs Yanmega is known for running Sleep Talk often so that it provide team support by absorbing sleep. I could see the set as:

Tornadus-T @ Choice Specs
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Hurricane
-Focus Blast
-U-Turn
-Sleep Talk

 

[Ace Emerald]

I think its a good genie, but I honestly think its just hype now, its lower special attack means its not the sweeper Tornadus was, I could see it high speed and regenerator being a great thing for bulky offensive teams.

I've been laddering, and the hype is (mostly) correct. Honestly, the boost in speed was worth the attack drop, because it is so hard to catch him. A 110 attacking stat, LO/Specs, STAB, Base 120 power move still hurts like hell, and thanks to regenerator he can pivot early game, and still late game clean afterwards. When your pokemon are weakened and your revengers are dead, there's no stopping this thing. Combine this with the fact that rain got so many boosts and he's on every other team, he gets frustrating really quick.

 

[I Am]

Doesn't the new thundurus form do a decent job of checking this guy? Can anyone run calcs(on my phone)? It's either him or Zapdos, since flying-fighting is a pretty terrific combo.

 

[Skore]

Tornadus is pure Flying type, no fighting type involved.

And since only Jolteon in OU outspeeds this bird, Thundurus-T would need to run a scarf set to get the jump on it, and would still take quite a chunk of damage if it switched in on a Hurricane.

 

[GoliathGarchomp]

Anyone think a Bulk Up set is viable?

Tornadus-T @ Flying Gem
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4HP/252Atk/252Speed Jolly/Adamant Nature
-Acrobatics
-Superpower/Hammer Arm/Crunch
-U-Turn
-Bulk Up

I can see it working if used right. You could even change the Ev's if you wanted to run a more Bulky Spread

 

[TheTraininator]

Just made my own thread for this when I saw that there wasn't one up yet. Apparently someone else got the same idea. Oh well.

Actually, it says mine was made 4 minutes before... weird, as you have all the comments. Well, can we somehow combine our threads, such as add details from mine to yours?

EDIT: I'm wrong, mine was posted and no one commented on it for 4 minutes, and the last comment made on yours happened 4 minutes after I posted mine. My mistake, you were quicker.

"The jump from 111 speed to 121 speed might not initially seem like much, but the boost actually allows Tornadus-T to outspeed several significant threats in the OU metagame that regular Tornadus could not, such as Starmie, Dugtrio, Alakazam, +1 Scrafty, Scarf Abomasnow, Modest Scarf Politoed, and Scarf Tyranitar, as well as giving it the ability to speed tie with +1 Admamant Bulky Dragonite. Tornadus-T can also reliably one shot all of the aformentioned Pokemon with the appropriate coverage move, with the exception of Modest Scarf Politoed and Dragonite with Multiscale intact, making it a prime late game cleaner and revenge killer."

I feel this was the best quote from my analysis. Feel free to include the information in your analysis if you want to.

 

[asterat]

Personally I like an offensive lead sort of poke, much like mienshao
Hurricane/Superpower/U-Turn/Taunt @ life orb
I also run it with EVs all over the place which I could get from PO but w/e. It obviously works well with dugtrio.

 

[Sphyxius]

OP failed to mention the boosted defenses.

 

[KurashiDragon]

OP failed to mention the boosted defenses.

Boosted defenses are slightly better but 79/80/90 is nothing to write home about.

 

[doughboy]

Call it too soon but I think this guy has the potential to be Uber material. Most people know that Dragon hit almost all the types unresisted, bar steel, and that with all of that power it can hit any non-steels bar some very bulky Pokemon hard. Interestingly, Dragon isn't the type that hits the most Pokemon in OU neutrally. Credit to FastFlygon for pointing this out (towards the middle) but Flying is resisted by 7 pokes in OU while Dragon is resisted by 9. Counting bulk for actually being able to take a resisted hit well 8 / 7 for Dragon and 6 / 5 for Flying. Warning long explanation upahead.

read yay

What makes Tornadus so threatening is that is can beat most of those Flying type resists relatively easily with its Fighting-type coverage and high speed. Superpower/Hammer really compliments Hurricane. Here is the bulkier flying type resists of OU: (calcs use a life orb 252 sp. atk)

tyranitar - ohko'ed by neutral natured (no investment superpower/hammer arm) (92 sp. atk grants ohko with Focus Blast)
jirachi
metagross - Hurricane does 33%-40% (full spec attack)
skarmory (physical defensive) - Hurricane does 45.5 - 53.59% -- 94.92% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Skarmory (specially defensive)- Hurricane does 31.43 - 36.82% -- 92.43% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
rotom-w (bulky attacker) - Hurricane does 39% - 46%
magenezone (charge beam)- Superpower does 68.96 - 81.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The three that are bolded can take repeated hits throughout the match. Now remember this is choosing to run Superpower. A Choice Specs set can bump up the damage to guareente some 2hko's after SR and elect to use Focus Blast to cause quite a dent in stuff. Calm Blissey needs to watch out for LO superpower (does 62-73%) and that chip damage from U-turn (bold losses to powerful rain water attacks). So Chansey, Jirachi, Bulky Rotom-W (barely lol) and Specially defensive Skarmory are the only guys capable of repeatedly switchining in and take these attacks throughout a match.

Offensively since almost nothing can take a hit from it you are going to need to outspeed it. Good luck. Scarfer's and priority are your only options. This isn't to these aren't viable but it makes Tornadus' time switching out a lot easier. Regenerator makes it easy to switch out if it feels threaten, so it is "hard to nail down" (kinda like rotom-w). Since Tornadus plays on rain offense teams, that weak priority or scarf move can often be fatal. That's why Gyarados makes such a good partner with Tornadus, it can set up on the priority of the swine and Scizor easily.

Normally really fast offensive pokemon like Tornadus are either worn down by hazards or residual damage. Regenerator and rain makes sure that doesn't happen, even then very few pokes will choose to try to wear down tornadus to kill themselves. Basically I think Tornadus has a shot to being uber by being really powerful and fast, but very hard to wear down. You could say the same thing about zam, but being pursuit trapped makes it underwhemled and wary of coming in. It can't threaten targets like tornadus can either.

TL;DR tornadus is everything what staraptor wanted to be: faster, non-sr weak, and loved (put mixed in there too :P)

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

I just wanna note that Jolteon is a good check to that Tornadus-T + Gyarados duo mentioned by Pillsbury. Jolteon can live *one* Hurricane, and force out Tornadus-T due to its base 130 Speed, but what do you go to? You sure as hell aren't going to Gyarados. I agree that Tornadus-T is a force to be reckoned with, but I think it needs a different Pokemon to be used alongside it that can handle fast Electric-types like Jolteon and Scarf Rotom-W, for example Amoonguss. You certainly still need something to handle Scizor, so I suppose Gyarados would also make a good partner.

 

[doughboy]

I just wanna note that Jolteon is a good check to that Tornadus-T + Gyarados duo mentioned by Pillsbury. Jolteon can live *one* Hurricane, and force out Tornadus-T due to its base 130 Speed, but what do you go to? You sure as hell aren't going to Gyarados. I agree that Tornadus-T is a force to be reckoned with, but I think it needs a different Pokemon to be used alongside it that can handle fast Electric-types like Jolteon and Scarf Rotom-W, for example Amoonguss. You certainly still need something to handle Scizor, so I suppose Gyarados would also make a good partner.

Amoongus is good for a primary switch in to fast electrics. Pretty much any bulky grass type like Celebi, Verizion, and Roserade will do. Of course you can also use Thunderus-T as a secondary check to choiced electrics to add the icing on the rain offense cake :P

 

[Cooky]

Protect is really good on the life orb set over the HP Ice / Heat Wave slash, which is basically filler anyway. lets you scout scarf Rotom W, Landorus, Thundurus-T and CB Scizor in a similar fashion to SD Terrakion. Fuck Volturn!

 

[NoUserName]

What I hate most about Tornadus and his new form is Hurricane 30% of confusing being 100% accurate on rain. Rain is the most haxor weather with Hurricane, Thunder and Scald.

With Hurricane 30% confusion rate, it has a chance to defeat its few checks/counters and annoy in general.

About his stats, there is not much difference, but its 90 Sp Def is nice though, not much useful, but good.

 

[Style_Dota]

Yeah, rain teams are going to be insanely popular in the start of the metagame. I'm curious as to how offensive Rain is going to develop with the coming of Tornadus-T. I'm thinking something like Toed + Tornadus-T + Terrakion + Keldeo + Latias + Jirachi is going to be fairly popular in the early stages.

I also think Dugtrio would be a fantastic teammate to Tornadus-T, since Tornadus will be causing so many switches. Duggy can easily trap Tornadus-T's checks(minus Sp Def Skarm and Rotom) and take them out or severely cripple them.

 

[blunder]

I've been using a pretty crazy Resto Chesto Bulk Up set and Its actually really good. Tornadus-T's new bulk means I can usualy get in at least 2 or even 3 Bulk Ups, Rest off, and smash everything with Acrobatics with the berry gone. I use a regular max speed / max attack set with

Bulk Up/Rest/Acrobatics/Brick Break

 

[Tobes]

As far as Bulk Up goes I think I'd prefer Tornadus-Incarnate, who can use Bulk Up with priority to survive attacks from faster Pokemon, as well as priority Rest and Substitute. Prankster is, in my opinion, much more useful for this set than the increase in bulk and Speed.

 

[jle1076]

How is tornadus not sr weak?

 

[da gold sun]

How is tornadus not sr weak?

Regenerator.

He heals the damage SR does every time he switches out (+ 5 more %, if I'm not mistaken), which effectively removes his Stealth Rock weakness. It's what every flying type, and all pokemon weak to rock, wish they had. In a sense, it's what separates Tornadus-T from Thundurus-T in addition to a much higher speed.

 

[Jaetheho]

Sleep Talk is certainly viable on strong Choice users who get all the coverage they need from a few moves. Specs Yanmega is known for running Sleep Talk often so that it provide team support by absorbing sleep. I could see the set as:

Tornadus-T @ Choice Specs
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Hurricane
-Focus Blast
-U-Turn
-Sleep Talk

I really like this idea. could come in breloom's spore

 

[Dr Ciel]

That set looks actually pretty good. Beats Breloom very nicely.

 

[Jaetheho]

I have a question, if I were to use a physical tornadus, and used sleep talk an it chose acrobatics, would the flight gem activate?

 

[Dr Ciel]

Yes, I think it would, but I'm not too sure

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Sleep Talk can only be used while the user is asleep and will fail if the user is not. Sleep Talk randomly chooses one of the user's moves other than Sleep Talk itself and uses it. PP will be deducted from Sleep Talk only, which means that it can be used to execute moves that have no PP left.

Unless there are some hidden effects, I would assume that it simply uses the move as normal accept with no PP loss.

 

[TCTphantom]

The reason this thing is so dangerous is its Speed Tier. The only common OU pokemon that outspeeds it is Jolteon, and Jolteon seems to be sitting at the bottom of OU.


Counters.

Weavile is a solid check. If it switches in to the switch, it can Ice Shard or even Ice Punch Tonradus T for heavy damage. Jolteon also resists hurricane, has decent SpD, and outspeeds the huge cloud bird and deals heavy damage with T-Bolt, Thunder, and Volt Switch. Priority not named Mach Punch seems to be a thorn in its side. However, Tornadus T can deal with these through Heat Wave (Scizor, Mamoswine, Lucario), HP ice (Dragonite), or Hurricane (Hits all of the common priority abusers neutral at worst, and also deals heavy damage to Azumarril). Not to mention Physical attackers do not want the Confusion from Hurricane,...