Skore
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Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]
- Thread starter Nix_Hex
- Start date
Skore
TheReptile
DrunkDemon
I posted, but my name's not on the list. I don't really mind that much, but does that mean I can vote?
If so, I vote
Skore
If so, I vote
Skore
TheReptile
You forgot my submission, but whatevs.
DrunkDemon
PapaBearAd
Tally till now:
Skore's "Heatrab": 5
Xelacalle's Terrakion: 0
TheReptile's Heatran: 3
DrunkDemon's Terrakion: 4
Sharpteeth's Tyranitar: 2
DerpGadget's Empoleon (Protect): 0
ganj4lF's Hippowdon: 2
PapaBearAd's Jirachi: 2
G-Von's Heracross: 0
ClubbingSeal's Infernape: 0
Waiting NixHex to go on and nominate sets for Team 1 again, I suppose.
Skore's "Heatrab": 5
Xelacalle's Terrakion: 0
TheReptile's Heatran: 3
DrunkDemon's Terrakion: 4
Sharpteeth's Tyranitar: 2
DerpGadget's Empoleon (Protect): 0
ganj4lF's Hippowdon: 2
PapaBearAd's Jirachi: 2
G-Von's Heracross: 0
ClubbingSeal's Infernape: 0
Waiting NixHex to go on and nominate sets for Team 1 again, I suppose.
Thank you, ganj4lf. Sorry for all those whom I forgot, I'll add in a vote next round for you guys! Onto the next stage. You guys voted for Skore's specially defensive Heatran with the following set:
Heatrab @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
Calm
248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
~ Lava Plume
~ Stealth Rock
~ Roar
~ Will-O-Wisp
The teams are as listed here:
Team 1: Meloetta
Team 2: Celebi / Heatran
Now we're back at TEAM 1. Please suggest one set and/or discuss other people's submissions as a partner for Meloetta that will assist in countering Team 2. You have ~24 hours to nominate and discuss sets then we will move onto voting. Please supply the Pokemon's name, sprite, EVs, IVs (if relevant), item, ability, and moves. Only one move per move slot (no slashes).
Heatrab @ Leftovers
Flash Fire
Calm
248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
~ Lava Plume
~ Stealth Rock
~ Roar
~ Will-O-Wisp
The teams are as listed here:
Team 1: Meloetta
Team 2: Celebi / Heatran
Now we're back at TEAM 1. Please suggest one set and/or discuss other people's submissions as a partner for Meloetta that will assist in countering Team 2. You have ~24 hours to nominate and discuss sets then we will move onto voting. Please supply the Pokemon's name, sprite, EVs, IVs (if relevant), item, ability, and moves. Only one move per move slot (no slashes).
Haha it's fine, no probs. Heatrab and Celebi hate Ground / Flying, so why the heck not
Gliscor @ Flying Gem
Trait: depends, but doesn't really matter at this point
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant nature
~Swords Dance
~Substitute
~Earthquake
~Acrobatics
Don't even need to boost to outspeed and OHKO both of them. Pretty good synergy with Meloetta; it can take fighting types for her, and she can eliminate physical walls such as Skarmory. Oh, and immune to T-Wave.
Gliscor @ Flying Gem
Trait: depends, but doesn't really matter at this point
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant nature
~Swords Dance
~Substitute
~Earthquake
~Acrobatics
Don't even need to boost to outspeed and OHKO both of them. Pretty good synergy with Meloetta; it can take fighting types for her, and she can eliminate physical walls such as Skarmory. Oh, and immune to T-Wave.
Hmm, so Team 2 is now composed of Specially Def. Heatran and Celebi right now. I don't want to upset anyone, but I think the last pick was not very good, at best. Of course, Heatran can reliably set up Rocks, has good type synergy with Celebi and all, but being limited to mono-Fire coverage really hurts it. Guess who I'm going to suggest for Team 1...
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
This set will cause huge headaches to Team 2. Their Heatran can't do anything to it, providing a PERFECT opportunity to freely switch-in and gain a free boost if it decides to WoW or Lava Plume. Once you switched in, you can easily setup a Sub while opposing Heatran flees (if it decides to stay in, and try to Roar you, it's not going to enjoy eating an Earth Power, taking 70.64 - 84.15% damage), then proceed to smack with your coverage moves almost any switch-in. Running Toxic eliminates almost all of Heatran's traditional counters: everything that's not Steel (covered by Fire Blast) nor Poison (covered by Earth Power) will take a crippling status condition; Bulky Waters and Dragons aren't safe switch-ins anymore. Substitute also eases prediction, and allows you to not rely on prediction to kill (or severely cripple) all those Pokes that resist Fire, outspeed and OHKO Heatran with the appropriate move. It goes without saying that Celebi is completely helpless after Tran sets up a Sub: to break it, Celebi needs TWO Nasty Plot boosts, and obviously Heatran OHKOs with Fire Blast 100% of the times.
There's only a little drawback into this set: it doesn't run Stealth Rock. This means we will need something else to set them, limiting our choices a bit. However, this loss of flexibility in our remaining picks is completely outweighted by the fact that this Heatran walls the entire Team 2 right now, and can easily cripple almost everything Team 2 can pick to react. Well, it's walled by Blissey, but forcing them to pick Blissey is already a great result, that we can easily exploit with later picks.
Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
This set will cause huge headaches to Team 2. Their Heatran can't do anything to it, providing a PERFECT opportunity to freely switch-in and gain a free boost if it decides to WoW or Lava Plume. Once you switched in, you can easily setup a Sub while opposing Heatran flees (if it decides to stay in, and try to Roar you, it's not going to enjoy eating an Earth Power, taking 70.64 - 84.15% damage), then proceed to smack with your coverage moves almost any switch-in. Running Toxic eliminates almost all of Heatran's traditional counters: everything that's not Steel (covered by Fire Blast) nor Poison (covered by Earth Power) will take a crippling status condition; Bulky Waters and Dragons aren't safe switch-ins anymore. Substitute also eases prediction, and allows you to not rely on prediction to kill (or severely cripple) all those Pokes that resist Fire, outspeed and OHKO Heatran with the appropriate move. It goes without saying that Celebi is completely helpless after Tran sets up a Sub: to break it, Celebi needs TWO Nasty Plot boosts, and obviously Heatran OHKOs with Fire Blast 100% of the times.
There's only a little drawback into this set: it doesn't run Stealth Rock. This means we will need something else to set them, limiting our choices a bit. However, this loss of flexibility in our remaining picks is completely outweighted by the fact that this Heatran walls the entire Team 2 right now, and can easily cripple almost everything Team 2 can pick to react. Well, it's walled by Blissey, but forcing them to pick Blissey is already a great result, that we can easily exploit with later picks.
Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Thick Fat
4 HP/252 Attack/252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Icicle Crash
-Stone Edge/Superpower
One of the premier physical attackers in the BW2 metagame. Icicle Crash always OHKOs Celebi, and EQ obviously destroys Heatran. The nature is adamant because it already has priority in ice shard, and even jolly mamo would fail to outspeed celebi. It can't switch in to celebi or revenge it about 63 percent health though, as Giga Drain OHKOs and Ice Shard maxes out at a little over 63 percent. Beyond these two pokemon, mamo can deal with and of the therians (and their regular forms as well), Salamence, Dragonite, Gliscor, and many others.
EDIT: Whoops, must have messed up the calcs a little bit. 54.08 - 63.38 percent for ice shard. Gives Stone Edge + Ice Shard a pretty good chance to KO though.
Thick Fat
4 HP/252 Attack/252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Icicle Crash
-Stone Edge/Superpower
One of the premier physical attackers in the BW2 metagame. Icicle Crash always OHKOs Celebi, and EQ obviously destroys Heatran. The nature is adamant because it already has priority in ice shard, and even jolly mamo would fail to outspeed celebi. It can't switch in to celebi or revenge it about 63 percent health though, as Giga Drain OHKOs and Ice Shard maxes out at a little over 63 percent. Beyond these two pokemon, mamo can deal with and of the therians (and their regular forms as well), Salamence, Dragonite, Gliscor, and many others.
EDIT: Whoops, must have messed up the calcs a little bit. 54.08 - 63.38 percent for ice shard. Gives Stone Edge + Ice Shard a pretty good chance to KO though.
Controversial choice and one not seen that often in OU these days but admirable for the job.
Gallade @ Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EVs: 240 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Atk / 12 Spd
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Shadow Sneak
Taken directly from his OU analysis - With his awesome special bulk, killer attack stat and Bulk-Up Gallade can deal with both Heatran and Celebi in short order.
252SpAtk Heatran (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 240HP/216SpDef Gallade (+SpDef): 42% - 50% (144 - 171 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 2%
252SpAtk +2 Celebi (+SAtk) Giga Drain vs 240HP/216SpDef Gallade (+SpDef): 44% - 52% (151 - 178 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 9% chance to 2HKO.
As you can see, both Celebi and Heatran's STAB moves give it more than enough time to dispatch them or steal Bulk Up boosts if it scares them out. Status is annoying of course but the same can be said for any mon and Gallade can come in on Heatran's sub and still come out on top.
It also has a flying weakness which makes everyone's mind turn to Tornadus which again follows on to Rain, and if they go the Rain Route - well, we know how to counter that don't we?
Gallade @ Leftovers
Trait: Justified
EVs: 240 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Atk / 12 Spd
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Shadow Sneak
Taken directly from his OU analysis - With his awesome special bulk, killer attack stat and Bulk-Up Gallade can deal with both Heatran and Celebi in short order.
252SpAtk Heatran (+SAtk) Fire Blast vs 240HP/216SpDef Gallade (+SpDef): 42% - 50% (144 - 171 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 2%
252SpAtk +2 Celebi (+SAtk) Giga Drain vs 240HP/216SpDef Gallade (+SpDef): 44% - 52% (151 - 178 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 9% chance to 2HKO.
As you can see, both Celebi and Heatran's STAB moves give it more than enough time to dispatch them or steal Bulk Up boosts if it scares them out. Status is annoying of course but the same can be said for any mon and Gallade can come in on Heatran's sub and still come out on top.
It also has a flying weakness which makes everyone's mind turn to Tornadus which again follows on to Rain, and if they go the Rain Route - well, we know how to counter that don't we?
Terrakion @ Lum Berry
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
Rock Polish Terrakion is a great partner for meloetta because it can come in on anything that heatran and celebi have and on the switch, it can rock polish. Lum berry is to absorb T-wave and WoW that cripple Terrakion so very much; X-scissor doesnt provide any extra coverage but is solely for celebi which it hits very hard. Close combat are fantastic powerful STABs that really hurt anything in the tier bar Gliscor. But then we have 4 more members for that and sooner or later, we are going to find a way to implement a special attacker into the team that has a water/ice type move, i hope...
Scenario 1: Terrakion switches in on a T-wave or a NP from celebi. Lum berry takes effect (on the T-wave) and Terrakion outspeeds and OHKO's (100%) with X-scissor.
Scenario 2: Terrakion switches in on a giga drain from celebi which can't OHKO even with SR (75.93% - 89.81%). Terrakion outspeeds and has an 87.5% Chance to OHKO with X-scissor
Scenario 3: Terrakion switches in on a lava plume or WoW from heatran. Lum berry takes effect if it hits and Terrakion outspeeds and OHKO's (100%) with close combat.
If you predict a switch correctly you can also rock polish to sweep the opposing team. Or just rock polish if a HP fire/non burn lava plume/SR comes your way on the switch. I think the odds of OHKo'ing both of the opponents team are good at the moment. It can also go on to sweep the opposing team because of the ability to outspeed all of the metagame while being able to switch moves. Although there isn't much chance of that as this is a counter this pokemon thread.
Wanted to suggest the exact same Gliscor set but I guess I'll be going with:
Infernape@ life orb
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Spa
Iron fist
Hasty nature
-Overheat
-Close Combat
-Mach Punch
-Stone Edge
Infernape outspeeds both of them and Ohkoes. Stone Edge destroys volcarona and flying threats. Infernape makes walling dragons much harder.
Overheat over fire punch because against Celebi:
Fire Punch: 330-390 (92.95 - 109.85%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
Overheat: 411-484 (115.77 - 136.33%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Overheat is also much better against physical walls.
I was torn between mach punch and thunderpunch but Meloetta already has electric coverage and it only 2hkoes Keldeo anyway. If you want to discuss it, I'm perfectly open. Having priority is always nice especially when stabbed and boosted by iron fist.
Infernape@ life orb
252 Atk/ 252 Spe/ 4 Spa
Iron fist
Hasty nature
-Overheat
-Close Combat
-Mach Punch
-Stone Edge
Infernape outspeeds both of them and Ohkoes. Stone Edge destroys volcarona and flying threats. Infernape makes walling dragons much harder.
Overheat over fire punch because against Celebi:
Fire Punch: 330-390 (92.95 - 109.85%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO
Overheat: 411-484 (115.77 - 136.33%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Overheat is also much better against physical walls.
I was torn between mach punch and thunderpunch but Meloetta already has electric coverage and it only 2hkoes Keldeo anyway. If you want to discuss it, I'm perfectly open. Having priority is always nice especially when stabbed and boosted by iron fist.
Terrakion @ Lum Berry
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- X-Scissor
- Stone Edge
- Rock Polish
Rock Polish Terrakion is a great partner for meloetta because it can come in on anything that heatran and celebi have and on the switch, it can rock polish.
Scenario 1: Terrakion switches in on a T-wave or a NP from celebi. Lum berry takes effect (on the T-wave) and Terrakion outspeeds and has an 87.5% chance to OHKO with X-scissor.
Scenario 2: Terrakion switches in on a giga drain from celebi which can't OHKO even with SR (75.93% - 89.81%). Terrakion outspeeds and has an 87.5% Chance to OHKO with X-scissor
Scenario 3: Terrakion switches in on a lava plume or WoW from heatran. Lum berry takes effect if it hits and Terrakion outspeeds and has an 81.25% chance to OHKo with close combat.
If you predict a switch correctly you can also rock polish to sweep the opposing team. Or just rock polish if a HP fire/non burn lava plume/SR comes you way on the switch. I think the odds of OHKo'ing both of the opponents team are good at the moment. It can also go on to sweep the opposing team because of the ability to outspeed all of the metagame while being able to switch moves. Although there isn't much chance of that as this is a counter this pokemon thread.
I think an adamant nature would be much better on a rock polish set, it will still outspeed all scarfers after a rock polish and you're not gonna sweep anything with a jolly non boosted Terrakion. It may lose some immediate revenge killing prowess against max speed positive natured 95+ but I think it is well worth it.
I know you used this set to keep 3 attacks in order to include X-scissor but non choiced, non sub is dead weight : either you get the immediate boost from the choice item/ protection from sub or they just pick scizor.
I wouldn't say dead weight as Terrakion forces a lot of switches in which a Rock polish can be used. I know they can just choose scizor so rock polish is not always the best option but that is why you can switch out into an appropriate counter which can be implemented into the team like gliscor or magnezone. And if the scizor is coming in, then they have to take a lot from a CC (18.75 chance to OHKO with SR) or a stone edge which cant KO but can take it down to an amount of HP where another poke can come in on the bullet punch and KO it.
Gliscor @ Flying Gem
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant nature
~Swords Dance
~Substitute
~Earthquake
~Acrobatics
I really like this, actually. It seems you forgot an ability, though. Which were you thinking? All three can be useful, so you should edit your post with your thoughts ^^