Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
52 HP / 220 SpA / 236 Spe
Modest Nature
-Ice Beam
-Substitute
-Earth Power
-Roost

The set could prolly be changed, but at this stage, I quite like Kyurem, especially since it handles a lot of Team #2. Sure, its weak to Stealth Rock, on the other hand, it pisses off Rotom W, discouraging it from spamming Hydro Pump via Pressure (and if it Volt Switchs Thundurus-T threatens to switch in for free and kill something. It threatens Celebi and Heatran with Ice Beam and Earth Power, and its not weak to Ice Shard, which frustrates Mamoswine. Like I said, there might be a better set out there, but I like Kyurem as a pokemon at this moment since it threatens much of Team #2.

I don't actually like Politoed as much, since Team #2 has 2 slots left, and if we pick Politoed, then they add Kingdra, and then Team #1 is not in a solid position. Maybe later, certainly, but I would want to limit Team #2's chances at counter teaming us if we pick Politoed now.

Im going to be afk for the next 4-5 days so I won't be posting as much (sorry for that) but ill try and weigh in when I can.

@Politoed - I think we should do our very best to keep that option open with these two picks, but not commit. If we do this, we can wait to add Politoed as our last pick, when team 2 can't counter it; if they preemptively add something like Kingdra, then we don't need to go with rain.
@Kyurem - it seems nice, but having two SR-weak mons on our team seems a bit sketchy. It opens us up to having a Rock weakness in general, and Terrakion in particular.

Wow, I lost quite a bit of discussion. Many suggestions are good, others not that much, let me comment about them a bit.


Infernape is a sweet pick right now, it utterly destroys CeleTran and Mamoswine right now, resists Ice Shard, and only gives 1 chance to switch-in to Rotom (since it takes over 50% by Close Combat). I was going to suggest a similar LO set, with Stealth Rock | CC | Overheat | U-Turn, that still cripples everything, and can easily set up Rocks since it forces a ton of switches. However, picking it would destroy the viability of Politoed, and since this whole "game" was based around that, I think we should give up or at least wait till the last pick to consider a Fire-type.


Picking Politoed now is a great mistake, since they got two pokemon to abuse our rain against us. This was already discussed a lot, so I think we should just avoid picking it at all, or pick it as our last pick.


That Virizion is...weird. It cannot really switch into Rotom since a Trick means it's complete garbage, and without Speed investment, it even fails to outspeed neutral base 100 with a Scarf. Mamoswine outspeeds and can KO if Icicle Spear hits more than three times. The worst thing is, however, that Team 2 has still 2 pokemons to take advantage of your "overspecialized" set, so I would avoid picking it.


Lucario is a good suggestion, not the one I like the most, but there are no apparent flaws in it. Being Jolly, it outspeeds Mamoswine and avoid being KOed by Earthquake. The only (very little) problem is that it fails to KO Rotom at +2 with Extremespeed sometimes, but it's not too relevant anyway. Definitely one of my preferred suggestions right now.


Hydreigon is flat out OHKOd by Ice Shard. Of course, you can play around Mamoswine, but I don't think it's a good pick: taking more Ice-weak pokemon with a Mamoswine in their team seems a bad route to me. EDIT: bad calcs are bad. However, Ice Shard still deals over 55% and Icicle Spear OHKOs most of the times, so the rest of my point still holds.


Kyurem is a nice suggestion, being able to handle Rotom with ease, and to threaten all the remaining Team 2 members with its power and good coverage. The biggest problem in it is the SR weakness; we have only 2 remaining pokes to pick a Rapid Spin user (to alleviate said weakness) AND an hazard setter, so unless we pick something like Donphan or Forretress (but it seems completely out fo place in an offensive team) we're kinda predictable and/or forced to do certain choices. For example, say we pick Starmie after this (or a Spinner in general), they will be sure we don't go Rain since we need a SR setter. Avoiding a Spinner at all is an alternative too, but it becomes harder with 2 SR weaknesses, only 1 resistance and many Life Orbs to stack up residual damage...

I'm not sure about what direction Team 1 has to choose right now. You guys are all proposing offensive pokemons that fit well into a HO team; however, I feel that we should pick our hazard setter ASAP (it can be offensive too, no need to pick Forretress or the likes) and delay further offensive threats for our last 2 picks. I'm thinking about what fits better for us right now, I guess I'll suggest a SR setter of some sort soon. If I can't find something satisfying enough, I'm probably supporting Kyurem or Lucario suggestions, still need some more thinking about them.

EDIT: Okay, going to add my entry. Credit goes to PapaBearAds, that already suggested it a couple of pages ago, when we picked Thundurus. Still, it's the best hazard setter that we can find, so I'm going to nominate it again!



Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Night Shade

Deoxys provides the hazards our sweepers need to be effective when killing things. The fast spiker set ensures that Celebi can't set up NP or Thunder Wave, since it's slower and will be Taunted first. Heatran ca't set up SR for the same reason, and both deal pathetic damage in return. Hydro Pump from Rotom-W only 3HKOs (and thanks to Pressure, doing so will leave Rotom with only 2 Hydro Pumps for the rest of the match), giving Deoxys plenty of time to set hazards; of course Trick cripples Deo, but that's true for almost every hazard setter, so it's a necessary evil. Mamoswine is the main threat here, but it still need SR up to 2HKO with Earthquake: this still means at least 2 layers of hazards for us, and quite a bit of LO recoil for them. So, to sum up, Deoxys can set up safely on at least 2 pokemons Team 2 picked, and still is not that bad against the other 2 (only Mamo is slightly troublesome), fixes up our hazard deficit and makes hard for them to lay theirs. It fits perfectly in our HO or Balanced Offensive, whatever it is, strategy so it seems the perfect pick right now.

Just pointing out that we don't need a hazard setter. personally, I think its a good idea, since it pushes a number of pokemon into OHKO / 2KO range, but I wanted to make the point that since we are just countering Team #2, having hazards is not as essential. That said, if we do want a hazards, I would prefer that we pick one soon, as I don't want use with 1 slot left, and Team #2 having just picked a Dragonite or something, forcing a Stealth Rocker somewhere when we might want something else.

ginganinja said:

Just pointing out that we don't need a hazard setter. personally, I think its a good idea, since it pushes a number of pokemon into OHKO / 2KO range, but I wanted to make the point that since we are just countering Team #2, having hazards is not as essential. That said, if we do want a hazards, I would prefer that we pick one soon, as I don't want use with 1 slot left, and Team #2 having just picked a Dragonite or something, forcing a Stealth Rocker somewhere when we might want something else.

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That was exactly my reasoning, however having at least SR seems too valuable to give up. We have lots of pokes that force switches, and they lack reliable recovery on everything, thus making SR and possibly Spikes a great aid in the task of bringing down their CeleTran core (and discouraging a Dragonite pick, that would be painful to handle without Rocks). We could use something more offensively inclined like Infernape or Azelf, but Deoxys works well too. If someone else want to submit some other hazard setter, to have a wider range of choices, it would be nice since we're better to pick it right now or just don't do so till the end.

Here's my suggestion



Infernape @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe / -SpD)
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- U-Turn

The same Infernape I suggested earlier; but with SR instead of Mach Punch. Close Combat OHKOes Heatran and Mamo, while having a 81,25% chance to OHKO Rotom-W after SR, should he try to switch in. U-turn and Overheat demolish Celebi, the former having a 87,5% chance to KO after SR; and the latter being an OHKO without the need for hazards.

EDIT: Just realized that this set is very similar to Ithilanor's, but I feel SR sets it apart. If you guys think I should get a different poke, I'll do so (I was considering Dualscreens / SR / Lunar Dance Cresselia and Offensive SR Azelf, for example, but I think 'Nape is a better option against team 2 so far thanks to his power and coverage).

I now bring you the most powerful of dragons in the OU metagame!

Haxorus@Lum Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
EV's: 252/Attack/252 Speed/ 4HP
Jolly Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Aqua Tail
-Superpower

Obvious EV spread and ability are obvious. Jolly to outspeed non-scarfed base 95's. Yes, I am aware that Mamoswine has been picked for the other team. I ran the calcs and Haxorus cannot be OHKO'd even after SR and he OHKO's back with EVERY MOVE. The rest fall in a similar fashion. This Haxorus is mostly used for late-game sweeping so it really shouldn't be out early in the match at all. After a boost, the only thing that can stop this thing are pokes who already boosted their speed or base scarfers who both have a speed boosting nature and at least a base 98 Speed stat. The only pokemon that outspeeds Haxorus right now is Rotom-W because of his Choice Scarf, yet cannot do much to Haxorus.

Careful, that Rotom is packing Trick. Nothing worse than trying to go for a boost and ending up losing your primary sweeper because some lunatic starts handing out fashion wear like it's candy.

ClubbingSealCub said:

Here's my suggestion

Infernape @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe / -SpD)
- Close Combat
- Stealth Rock
- Overheat
- U-Turn

The same Infernape I suggested earlier; but with SR instead of Mach Punch. Close Combat OHKOes Heatran and Mamo, while having a 81,25% chance to OHKO Rotom-W after SR, should he try to switch in. U-turn and Overheat demolish Celebi, the former having a 87,5% chance to KO after SR; and the latter being an OHKO without the need for hazards.

EDIT: Just realized that this set is very similar to Ithilanor's, but I feel SR sets it apart. If you guys think I should get a different poke, I'll do so (I was considering Dualscreens / SR / Lunar Dance Cresselia and Offensive SR Azelf, for example, but I think 'Nape is a better option against team 2 so far thanks to his power and coverage).

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I'm not complaining. :) While it would be nice to have SR on Infernape, my one worry is losing the coverage from Stone Edge/Mach Punch. We'd need to make sure our 5th and 6th choices could handle things like Thundurus-T, Terrakion, Salamence, etc.

@Politoed I really don't like the idea of picking a weather inducer when team 2 still has two slots left that they can fill with dedicated anti-weather Pokémon and/or things to abuse the rain such as Kingdra and Tornadus-T. Best to save it for last pick, if at all.

@Lucario I do like Lucario, however two grounded steel types is asking for trouble. Three out of four Pokémon on team 2 have reasonable answers for Steel-types, so I really think we should look somewhere else for our physical sweeper.

@Virizion Unfortunately I don't think this Pokémon is good enough in OU to warrant a slot on the team. That set is lackluster, it's too unfocused and is more of a jack-of-all-trades type 'Mon, where we should be specialising our choices to make them as effective as possible. If the suggested set featured a boosting move or something to help it along, I'd be all for it, but alas...

@Infernape I actually think this is a good way to go. It threatens each Pokémon on team 2, serves as an offensive pivot as well which is always nice. With prediction it can cause serious trouble for team 2. I'd say this is the best option so far.

@Hydreigon Meh I honestly don't think picking another Pokémon that brings an Ice weakness when there's a Mamoswine is a good idea unless it either outspeeds and OHKOs or is bulky enough to setup despite being smashed by Ice attacks.

@Kyurem It's a nice Pokémon for sure, however as others have noted, SR weakness with no spinner and no cleric could be spelling disaster. Two SR weak Pokémon, Life Orb's and no spinner means residual damage is gonna rack up, and fast.

I've been thinking hard about Pokémon that will patch up any gaps in resistances that team 1 might have, and I noticed we don't have any resists to Fire and Water. At first I was looking at Dragon options to round off resistances that I think are crucial in this metagame. Then I realised I had been forgetting about Mamoswine, and so I switched my search to physically orientated Water-types. I settled on Gyarados, who has nice synergy with Thundurus, drawing out the Electric attacks he loves to absorb.


Gyarados @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 56 HP / 248 Atk / 204 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce

SubDance Gyarados is a massive threat that if allowed to accumulate even one boost becomes very very difficult to bring down outside of priority. Speed EVs allow it to outspeed all base 115 Pokémon after just one boost, sufficient HP EVs to ensure certain attacks don't break Subs after Intimidate or otherwise.

Substitute is obvious enough, it blocks status which Gyarados hates with a passion, and aids in stalling sometimes; not to mention it often gives Gyara a free DD. Dragon Dance is self explanatory as well; pumps up his already huge Attack stat to monstrous levels, as well as pushing his mediocre Speed up. Waterfall and Bounce as the obligatory STAB attacks.

A couple calcs of mine showed that after just ONE Dragon Dance:

• Celebi is cleanly OHKO'd by Bounce
• Heatran is straight OHKO'd by Waterfall
• Mamoswine is OHKO'd by Waterfall
• Rotom-W is 2HKO'd 98.44% of the time after Stealth Rock

As you can see, just one Dragon Dance and pretty much the entire core of the opposing team is broken down with little chance to retaliate, apart from Rotom-W, who will have to break the Sub before even hoping of killing Gyarados, whilst Gyarados can accumulate a second Dragon Dance to outspeed Rotom-W, and go for the KO if there is prior damage.

Sorry I haven't been too involved in the discussion, I've been pretty busy lately. Just gonna comment on a few of the noms.

Politoed: As others have said, we don't need to pick Politoed yet, even if our ultimate goal is rain. Let's hold off so they don't flat out counter it.

Infernape: It seems solid for handling the current opposing team, but choosing a fire type when we seem to be leaning so heavily toward rain doesn't sound so good to me.

Kyurem: Very powerful mon, and I have heard that it can work well on rain offense, although I haven't tried it out. It would pretty much force us to choose Forretress though, although unlike other critics of choosing Kyurem, I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Forretress would obviously be a support Pokemon on a very offensive team, but it can still build momentum with Volt Switch. With both Rotom-W and Volt Switch Forry we would be sort of vulnerable to something like Thundy-T, but I don't see team 2 choosing that anyway.

Gyarados: Similar boat to Kyurem. Is it better or worse though? I'm not really sure. Also, in the description it says Gyara has bounce even thoguh the set says Stone Edge.

DrunkDemon said:

Gyarados: Similar boat to Kyurem. Is it better or worse though? I'm not really sure. Also, in the description it says Gyara has bounce even thoguh the set says Stone Edge.

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Fixed that, thanks. Also, I think it's pretty essential to the team to have another physical attacker that isn't choiced. Three special attackers and one Banded 'Gross aint gonna cut it, so it's go physical or gtfo IMO! Plus, those calcs were made without taking rain into account, so those Poké's are gunna die even more if he's shooting off rain boosted Waterfalls.

Lord of Bays said:

Careful, that Rotom is packing Trick. Nothing worse than trying to go for a boost and ending up losing your primary sweeper because some lunatic starts handing out fashion wear like it's candy.

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Well in that case, Haxorus can just switch out and will become powerful and fast. I do not think tricking a Choice Scarf onto a Haxorus is the best idea, personally.

The first 3 members of Team 1 have all been highly offensive and I feel that it could do with a defensive pivot/hazard setter to at the very least, get rocks up to secure KOs.

Therefore I nominate:



Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
Natural Cure
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
-Stealth Rock
-Wish
-Seismic Toss
-Thunder Wave/Toxic

Rocks, massive Wishes to pass to team mates, Status inducer and absorber and Seismic Toss can be useful in a pinch against the likes of Rotom or Celebi.

Status depends on what Team 1 ends up needing more of. Paralysis if we go for 2 slow bulky attackers or Toxic to rack up more damage on key targets like Rotom or Mamo.

No to Blissey.

Sure, it gives us stealth rock, but it utterly rapes out momentum, and since we are running an offensive team, thats something I really really hate. Technically, it walls most of Team #2, however, it also gives Team #2 the freedom to pick a set up sweeper that can set up on Blissey, which makes it a lot harder for Team #1. I would prefer that we pick pokemon that are hard to set up on (Deoxys-D for example, has Taunt I guess) since it limits the options Team #2 has.

yeah, Blissey doesn't look like a good idea. Throwing in a purely specially defensive pokemon on a Hyper Offense team is never a good idea- especially one so polarly tilted as Blissey. We have Meloetta to take special hits, it's pretty much all we need for now. Besides, Team 2 doesn't even have any immediate trucks- their hardest hitter is Celebi, who relies on Nasty Plot. Blissey also makes us hilariously weak to any fighting type that can hit Thundurus-T neutrally and take a few CB Bullet punches (Lucario, Infernape, and Conkeldurr come in to mind here.)

Also, touching upon the topic of hazards- do we really need them? None of Team 2 really care about hazards- all are neutral to Stealth Rock and Rotom-W is unaffected by Spikes. If we are going to use hazards, I think it should be incorporated cleverly like CSC's Infernape- not put on a pokemon that's main job is to support. Since Team 1 is pretty offensive, time to bring in a support mon and set hazards won't come up often- so I think it's best to do it as we go.

Here's what I think about a few pokemon (only this page):

Kyurem- 'cool' pick- I really like it's ability to handle much of Team 2 well. Just watch out for Mamoswine's Superpower, which is a flat out OHKO- but between pressure and Substitute, you should be able to live 4 turns, though surviving an Ice Shard after that will be hard. Also, I'm willing to completely ditch hazards for a spinner because of what I said above.

Deoxys-D: Meh. I've had a lot of experience with this mon, and I'd say the best set for offensive teams is the offensive spiker set. It actually has sweeping potential- it can OHKO Terrakion, Starmie, Forretress, and Tentacruel- which means that our hazards will stay. Still, I can't change what you submit. I'd say this is an ok choice, I guess, but I still don't like the idea of using a whole teamslot for Taunt and hazards.

Infernape: my favorite right now. Read my previous post to find out why.

Haxorus: another great pick, though it's high risk high reward. I don't like the way it's weak to Mamoswine, even if it doesn't OHKO. Pretty good though.

Gyarados: can take status, so it can't set up on Heatran/Celebi. Can't take Tbolt, so Rotom-W is a non-non. And that's half of team 2 right there.

man, banded metagross is a pain in the neck right now, still confused as to why it was picked in the first place. it really seems like dead weight to team 1.

thinking about stuff like gothitelle, genesect, etc. but nothing seems very promising right now. going to throw this idea out there for the time being:


Terrakion @ Life Orb
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Protect
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor

ohko on celebi, ohko on mamoswine, ohko on heatran, protect can scout rotom-w! seems like a decent fit for now, obviously we're going to need a water-type resist somewhere down the road or scarf rotom-w will run all over us but that can wait. for now we need a solid check to this obnoxious mamoswine, and terrakion gives us the added benefit of killing heatran, celebi, and scouting rotom-w.

try not to shoot this one down too fast, give it some real thought.

Maybe...

Genesect @ Choice Band


Nature: Naughty (to take hits from Mamo better)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def (for opposing Genesect they might pick) / 252 Spe
Ability: Download
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Explosion
- Quick Attack

Checks Mamoswine pretty good, outspeeds and ohkoes Celebi, and can even tank one H-Pump if the need arises and deal huge damage to Rotom-W or just ohko with Explosion. It has the potential to ohko every member of team 2 except from Heatran, while its U-turn alone is a big pain in the ass for everything except Heatran, which can easily be abused with our own Thundurus-T or Meoloetta. Iron Head makes sure that we ohko Mamo when we need to, and also gets STAB and is Genesect's mean of revenge killing Dragons locked into Outrage (w/o killing itself). Explosion is to kill everything, dealing 78.18 - 92.2% to Heatran at +1. The last slot depends on what the opponent's team will chose. Well i know that we already have one CBer (which i don't even know why we picked), but it seems to work very good in the team (provided we chose a good Rotom-W check as our next poke).

EDIT: If we can't have slashes, then Quick Attack as the move of choice, as team 2 already has one Steel, which Fire moves don't affect, and they already have a Water type, which is hit harder by U-turn than Tbolt, so no need for Flamethrowe / Tbolt. Finally we don't need Ice Beam because any potential Landorus-T / Gliscor pick is 2hkoed by +1 Iron Head or ohkoed by +1 Explosion. So Quick Attack it is!

we already have a choice banded steel type, and while i realize genesect serves a different purpose than metagross, it still seems very out-of-place and doesn't contribute much to the current team lineup.

also i don't think we're supposed to use any slash marks.

About infernape and rain - first, we're still not committed to rain, even if it is pretty likely. Second (and more importantly), he can still be effective in the rain - u-turn for celebi, close combat for mamoswine.

Electrolyte said:

Deoxys-D: Meh. I've had a lot of experience with this mon, and I'd say the best set for offensive teams is the offensive spiker set. It actually has sweeping potential- it can OHKO Terrakion, Starmie, Forretress, and Tentacruel- which means that our hazards will stay. Still, I can't change what you submit. I'd say this is an ok choice, I guess, but I still don't like the idea of using a whole teamslot for Taunt and hazards.

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Well, I considered that set too, but it's complete Celebi set-up bait. It's only 3HKOd by HP Fire and can set up Nasty Plots as it pleases (even worse in Rain...). Heatran can also come in for free and set up SR, and since our main sweeper is weak to Rock, I thought it was a good idea to avoid that. Also, saying that Deo-D can "sweep" seems exaggerated to me: Psycho Boost deals good damage to Rotom and Mamoswine, but they can easily bait an attack and stall out SpA drops, again turning Deoxys into set-up bait for an eventual future set-up sweeper or Celebi. Taunt prevents most of those things, thus it seems more valuable to me than an attacking set. Of course, an attacking set prevents Rapid Spin, but it's a choice between avoiding them to set up boosts or hazards (that they already have) or to prevent a Rapid Spin user to remove ours (which they don't have yet, and we're far from sure they will pick one). Plus, if we want something that can pressure them and set up SR, I think we're just better to give up Rain mindgame and go Infernape, that would be my absolute favourite if it wasn't for the fact that destroys our rainy plans.

Scrafty @ Leftovers
Ability: Shed Skin
Nature: Careful
252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

Moveset
~ Bulk Up
~ Drain Punch
~ Crunch
~ Rest

Scrafty's got the bulk and typing to demolish everything on Team 2. Nothing 2HKOs bar Mamoswine's EQ, and even that's not guaranteed. It's a pretty good check for Ice Shard, since Drain Punch 2HKOs Mamoswine without boosts.

Giga Drain @ +1 fails to 3HKO, and Rotom is the same. Heatran can't roar because of Drain Punch.

FaceFaceFace said:

Scrafty @ Leftovers

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Man, this thing is so weak. Rotom counters it with ease, since it takes around 50% from any +1 attack, and can Trick a Scarf and laugh at you while you become set-up fodder for either Heatran or Celebi. Even if they fail to do so, Heatran can indeed Roar you away, at least once, since that +1 Drain Punch deals 66% max to it. Okay, you somehow check Mamoswine (although switching into an Ice Shard with SR onto the field means Mamoswine has a shot at KOing you with Earthquake), but it's so easily abused by a lot of things Team 2 can still pick, and it's checked somehow by 2 pokes they already have. Heck, it cannot even OHKO Terrakion at +1...definitely a bad option, in my opinion. Especially in a such offensive oriented team.

So this Rotom seems to be somewhat of a problem. If rain is a potential factor, I think this set will work well.



Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
Nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword / Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Icy Wind

This set is really good in that almost nothing resists it (too lazy to look up what does/does not). IF we're in the rain, STAB Hydro Pump will destroy everything. The choice between Secret Sword and Focus Blast is only if you want more power, but SS may be helpful for Heatran since it's specially defensive.

We are allowed to double up on pokemon right? Well i suggest...



Non Choice Attacker Celebi @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 160 HP / 152 SAtk / 196 Spd
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Earth Power
- U-turn
- Recover


This Celebi is a great addition to team 1. It can take on every single one of team 2's pokemon. It takes an almighty chunk out of Heatran with Earth Power, Rotom-W and Mamoswine will both be OHKO'd by Leaf Storm and Celebi will fall to a U-turn + Thundurus combo. Not only does it KO basically their whole team, Celebi brings a lot of things to the table. It can U-turn to keep momentum for one which will be a huge advantage. Not only that but with its bulk, typing and offenses it makes great glue for the team in general. Anyway just my 2 cents.

On a side note the EV spread could change slightly and have 204 in speed to outspeed celebi however i think the current spread is more advantageous.