Jimbon's Mienshao
Bubbly's Gyarados
TheQWAZ' Weavile
I like these three pokes and think they deserve to get more exposure.
Bubbly's Gyarados
TheQWAZ' Weavile
I like these three pokes and think they deserve to get more exposure.
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Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
OU CCAT - Mark III (Laddering/Discussing - See Post #547)
- Thread starter Electrolyte
- Start date
Although he counted wrong, (>.>) a HUGE thanks to ClubbingSealCub who tallied up most of the points for me and saved a lot of time for my busy schedule recently!
Another huge thanks to ganj4lf, who told me how to link inividual posts.
Nevertheless, our winner is PenguinX's SubPass Gliscor. PenguinX's voting points go up by 0.5 now- so in future votes, getting his approval could give you an edge (though it won't make much of a difference now, so early in the project) Here's the set for those of you who are lazy:
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
evs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe
Impish nature
~Substitute
~Baton Pass
~Earthquake
~Toxic / Taunt
Ok, now for Vote Number Two! Now, we will choose what our team strategy is. How are we going to use Gliscor in our 5-star team? What roles do Gliscor play? What kind if playstyles is this set usually associated with?
Last time we did this vote, everything went crazy, so let me lay down some guidelines here.
1. BE SPECIFIC. Nominations that just say 'Offense' or 'Stall' will be ignored. Your nomination should include:
What playstyle (stall, offense, defense, balanced, semi-) Field effects (Sand, Rain, Sun, Hail, TR, etc) and miscellaneous (VoltTurn, Phazing, anything else, specifics) If I feel that two nominations are too similar, I will only add the first one to the list.
2. DETAILS! Describe your strategy. Does it include heavy set up? Does it require coverage of certain pokemon? What does it need to function? Lack of detail means lack of support, and nobody is going to vote for you.
3. SPECIAL SECTION ANSWERING THIS QUESTION:
Why does Gliscor work well in that strategy?
(The better you answer this question, the more votes you'll get, I assure you)
4. Make your nomination post clear and neat- so I don't have to read through every detail just to confirm what you are nominating. Nomination posts should have the title 'nomination', and your actual nomination should be in bold.
Some DONOTs:
DO NOT change your nomination. You CAN post multiple nominations, just like PC did, but you must choose and finalize one for submission. You can discuss your ideas before nominating them, so you can be sure you know you want to nominate that idea.
DO NOT repeat someone else's nomination. If you do, yours just won't count.
General DO NOT flame, insult, or harass other users. Follow the rules, and this will fo on smoothly.
The nominations and discussion will take 3 days- and I will close for voting at ~10:30 PM, -4 GMT, on Sunday. You have got plenty of time- so think hard about what you're going to say.
Get nominating!
Another huge thanks to ganj4lf, who told me how to link inividual posts.
Nevertheless, our winner is PenguinX's SubPass Gliscor. PenguinX's voting points go up by 0.5 now- so in future votes, getting his approval could give you an edge (though it won't make much of a difference now, so early in the project) Here's the set for those of you who are lazy:
Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
evs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe
Impish nature
~Substitute
~Baton Pass
~Earthquake
~Toxic / Taunt
Ok, now for Vote Number Two! Now, we will choose what our team strategy is. How are we going to use Gliscor in our 5-star team? What roles do Gliscor play? What kind if playstyles is this set usually associated with?
Last time we did this vote, everything went crazy, so let me lay down some guidelines here.
1. BE SPECIFIC. Nominations that just say 'Offense' or 'Stall' will be ignored. Your nomination should include:
What playstyle (stall, offense, defense, balanced, semi-) Field effects (Sand, Rain, Sun, Hail, TR, etc) and miscellaneous (VoltTurn, Phazing, anything else, specifics) If I feel that two nominations are too similar, I will only add the first one to the list.
2. DETAILS! Describe your strategy. Does it include heavy set up? Does it require coverage of certain pokemon? What does it need to function? Lack of detail means lack of support, and nobody is going to vote for you.
3. SPECIAL SECTION ANSWERING THIS QUESTION:
Why does Gliscor work well in that strategy?
(The better you answer this question, the more votes you'll get, I assure you)
4. Make your nomination post clear and neat- so I don't have to read through every detail just to confirm what you are nominating. Nomination posts should have the title 'nomination', and your actual nomination should be in bold.
Some DONOTs:
DO NOT change your nomination. You CAN post multiple nominations, just like PC did, but you must choose and finalize one for submission. You can discuss your ideas before nominating them, so you can be sure you know you want to nominate that idea.
DO NOT repeat someone else's nomination. If you do, yours just won't count.
General DO NOT flame, insult, or harass other users. Follow the rules, and this will fo on smoothly.
The nominations and discussion will take 3 days- and I will close for voting at ~10:30 PM, -4 GMT, on Sunday. You have got plenty of time- so think hard about what you're going to say.
Get nominating!
canno
formerly The Reptile
We need to use a teamstyle that suits our Gliscor set the best. Due to his Typing, Good Defenses, and Poison Heal / Toxic Orb, he makes for a cool pivot pokemon that can regain momentum really well. Originally, I was going to suggest VolTurn, but VolTurn would rather Gliscor have U-Turn over Baton Pass. Plus, VolTurn cannot fully abuse the Substitute Gliscor can pass due to VolTurn always switching. Offense seems like the way to go with this, since offense works very well with momentum for obvious reasons. Plus, the offensive pokemon would LOVE to not be revenge killed so easily or even just get a free switch. Imagine CB Terrakion or Sheer Force Landorus behind a sub. Now, of course, we need to decide the actual play style of the team, since "offense" is way to general. Not only that, but Gliscor can either Toxic or Taunt walls that can give the team troubles and wear them down or shut them out respectively. Sand Offense is my vote for this, since Gliscor is immune to Sandstorm damage and the pokemon in Sand Offense are really strong, especially behind a sub (for example, Terrakion). If anything, Sand Offense is really flexible in terms of pokemon that can be used for the team.
Now, how does Gliscor works well in this strategy since Sand + Toxic can wear down walls easily for the rest of the team to play with, while also giving us momentum and passing subs to powerful threats. Not only that, but Sand is Gliscor's best weather, since Blizzard in Hail will destroy him, as will any Water attack under Rain, and he can't really take Sun-Boosted Fire-type moves from the special side very well. Meanwhile, Sand + Toxic+EQ can wear down pokemon not named Skarmory. On the flip side, if we use Taunt, we can set-up Subs on Skarmory's face and pass them out to our big threats.
Overall, I feel like Sand Offense is the way to go for the team with SubPass Gliscor. He can help vs walls and can pass subs to huge threats usually found in Sand Teams. Also, Gliscor kind of hates every other weather, so having Sand up is a plus.
Now, how does Gliscor works well in this strategy since Sand + Toxic can wear down walls easily for the rest of the team to play with, while also giving us momentum and passing subs to powerful threats. Not only that, but Sand is Gliscor's best weather, since Blizzard in Hail will destroy him, as will any Water attack under Rain, and he can't really take Sun-Boosted Fire-type moves from the special side very well. Meanwhile, Sand + Toxic+EQ can wear down pokemon not named Skarmory. On the flip side, if we use Taunt, we can set-up Subs on Skarmory's face and pass them out to our big threats.
Overall, I feel like Sand Offense is the way to go for the team with SubPass Gliscor. He can help vs walls and can pass subs to huge threats usually found in Sand Teams. Also, Gliscor kind of hates every other weather, so having Sand up is a plus.
Since this Gliscor is more like a bulky pivot than anything else, we should consider what Pokemon like switching into Gliscor. Skarmory, Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Xatu come to mind. Now we have to think: what can Gliscor Baton Pass to that will deal with all of the aforementioned Pokemon?
Off the top of my head, Magnezone. It easily removes all the Steel-types mentioned and scares away Xatu. Disposing of Skarmory is extremely easy if it is not holding a Shed Shell, however, Ferrothorn and Forretress are a different story. Ferrothorn tend to be coupled with rain support, which make a 2HKO with Hidden Power Fire a very real possibility. Forretress is in the same boat, AND it can Volt Switch out to live another day if it is not outright OHKO'd. For this reason alone, I believe that if we opt to use Gliscor + Magnezone there should also be sand or sun support, hell, even hail. Anything but rain, so that we can guarantee to KO the bulky steel types that zone is trapping.
Other Pokemon that are not scared of switching in on Gliscor are things like Lati@s and Starmie. Gliscor can use Baton Pass to switch to a strong Pursuit user to get rid of these. Scizor and Tyranitar come to mind. BP'ing to Genesect could also force all of the aforementioned Pokemon out.
So far, sandstream support seems beneficial for this particular Gliscor, and its potential teammates. A pseudo Volt-Turn could also be incorporated into the team, since for example Gliscor has excellent synergy with Rotom-W.
With Gliscor's ability to BP to potential trappers to clear the path for other teammates to sweep, while using 'mons who have both an offensive and defensive presence, I nominate Sand Balance for this CCAT.
Off the top of my head, Magnezone. It easily removes all the Steel-types mentioned and scares away Xatu. Disposing of Skarmory is extremely easy if it is not holding a Shed Shell, however, Ferrothorn and Forretress are a different story. Ferrothorn tend to be coupled with rain support, which make a 2HKO with Hidden Power Fire a very real possibility. Forretress is in the same boat, AND it can Volt Switch out to live another day if it is not outright OHKO'd. For this reason alone, I believe that if we opt to use Gliscor + Magnezone there should also be sand or sun support, hell, even hail. Anything but rain, so that we can guarantee to KO the bulky steel types that zone is trapping.
Other Pokemon that are not scared of switching in on Gliscor are things like Lati@s and Starmie. Gliscor can use Baton Pass to switch to a strong Pursuit user to get rid of these. Scizor and Tyranitar come to mind. BP'ing to Genesect could also force all of the aforementioned Pokemon out.
So far, sandstream support seems beneficial for this particular Gliscor, and its potential teammates. A pseudo Volt-Turn could also be incorporated into the team, since for example Gliscor has excellent synergy with Rotom-W.
With Gliscor's ability to BP to potential trappers to clear the path for other teammates to sweep, while using 'mons who have both an offensive and defensive presence, I nominate Sand Balance for this CCAT.
Milos we don't even need these steels removed so early in the project. Gliscor can run Taunt and shut them down anyway, so unless one of our sweepers benefits from the steels gone, Zone shouldn't be considered as a teammate. It is much better to build our offensive core in the begging, by chosing 2-3 pokes that can come into whatever Gliscor is weak to and possibly keep the Sub intact. Then we need to support this offensive core with a defensive one, or have some backup such as Scarf mons and some utility mons, rapid spin, hazards etc.
Since this Gliscor is more centered around a defensive set instead of an offensive set, I would recommend Balanced Sun as our playstyle.
My strategy would be to weed out the weather inducer and sub on the switch in. If all goes according to plan, we baton pass into our weather trapper and proceed to win the weather war.
Gliscor works well in this strategy because this isn't the most common set. Also, most politoeds take this time to switch in on us, and once they see we have sub up I don't think they are going to be switching. Even if they do we can just pass to something that can take advantage of the substitute, for instance 3 attacks volcarona which is common amongst some sun teams. In the event that we do get the batonpass while the opponent's weather inducer is on the field, we can pass to a trapper that synergizes well with the team and can eliminate weather inducers effectively. Once we win the weather war, the game is a lot easier to play and win. I also firmly believe that in this metagame sun may be frail but has the greatest offensive potential and thus we can create a balanced team with heavy walls and hard hitting sun abusers.
My strategy would be to weed out the weather inducer and sub on the switch in. If all goes according to plan, we baton pass into our weather trapper and proceed to win the weather war.
Gliscor works well in this strategy because this isn't the most common set. Also, most politoeds take this time to switch in on us, and once they see we have sub up I don't think they are going to be switching. Even if they do we can just pass to something that can take advantage of the substitute, for instance 3 attacks volcarona which is common amongst some sun teams. In the event that we do get the batonpass while the opponent's weather inducer is on the field, we can pass to a trapper that synergizes well with the team and can eliminate weather inducers effectively. Once we win the weather war, the game is a lot easier to play and win. I also firmly believe that in this metagame sun may be frail but has the greatest offensive potential and thus we can create a balanced team with heavy walls and hard hitting sun abusers.
Balanced Sun is really interesting. Think Stone Cold's old RMT, which actually used SubToxic Gliscor; me and my buddy pacachomp have been testing a similar setup and it works really nicely in this metagame. Finally, if you pass a Sub to something like Growth Venusaur in Sun the game's practically over.
One other thing which I may nominate later but for now would like some opinions on would be using SubPass to help entry hazard pokemon (especially Ferrothorn since it has phenomenal type synergy with Gliscor) or even Rapid Spinners. Hazards are theoretically fantastic in this metagame once you get them down, the problem is that in the face of all the HO flying around most hazard setters struggle. Passing a Sub alleviates this substantially. Overall I'd prefer to see a balanced team of some sort which can utilise this kind of strategy while also being able to use the SubPass to set up an offensive win condition.
One other thing which I may nominate later but for now would like some opinions on would be using SubPass to help entry hazard pokemon (especially Ferrothorn since it has phenomenal type synergy with Gliscor) or even Rapid Spinners. Hazards are theoretically fantastic in this metagame once you get them down, the problem is that in the face of all the HO flying around most hazard setters struggle. Passing a Sub alleviates this substantially. Overall I'd prefer to see a balanced team of some sort which can utilise this kind of strategy while also being able to use the SubPass to set up an offensive win condition.
Personally, I dislike this part of the process, mainly because I don't want our team so constrained by a team style. The last CCAT ran into this problem a little bit towards the end, where people realised they should have gone with team style X and it screwed up the process. I don't see the issue with a little discussion however.
Basically, I personally want to focus on an offensive team (yea real simple) and as for the style (if we havem to pick one now) then id pick a team style that lets use abuse Gliscors partners the best. If this is not clear, the pokemon that best enjoy being passed a sub are pokemon that resist water and ice attacks. Cloyster for example, was something I found to be successful in my testing, but there are other suitable partners. I encourage everyone to look at the partners we intend to use Gliscor with, and then decide if our team needs weather (for example, if we wanted to use Darmanitan or something (not saying we should) as a partner then ideally we shouldn't pick sand offence. I guess im trying to make sure we match the weather (or team style) with the teammates (if we do go with weather) when we make our decision.
Basically, I personally want to focus on an offensive team (yea real simple) and as for the style (if we havem to pick one now) then id pick a team style that lets use abuse Gliscors partners the best. If this is not clear, the pokemon that best enjoy being passed a sub are pokemon that resist water and ice attacks. Cloyster for example, was something I found to be successful in my testing, but there are other suitable partners. I encourage everyone to look at the partners we intend to use Gliscor with, and then decide if our team needs weather (for example, if we wanted to use Darmanitan or something (not saying we should) as a partner then ideally we shouldn't pick sand offence. I guess im trying to make sure we match the weather (or team style) with the teammates (if we do go with weather) when we make our decision.
One of my best BW1 teams used subpass glis and pretty much what bubbly said is true [for reference, the full team was glis/sr spikes ferrothorn/cb tyranitar/bulky starmie/sd scizor/scarf salamence]. It's really cool to pass to cb tar vs politoed, one of glis's most common switch-ins, since you don't have to worry about scald burning you as you come in. It's also nice to pass to starmie against, say, balloon heatran using sr, since it can spin and then use the sub to escape a potential pursuit, or use it to scald twice and have a high chance of getting a burn. Lastly, it's great fun to taunt skarm switch-ins, then passing to scizor and setting up swords dances on it. I'm nominating bulky sand offense [or weatherless] as it is where this gliscor shines.
I'm going to go with this, last CCAT (attempt) is exactly as Ninja describes. Offensive style is really how I want this to go as well, seeing how Gliscor is a really great momentum shifter with its baton passing. I'll comment later on specific teammates, but I'm going to agree with this over picking a playstyle.
Bryce
Lun
I think offense is the way to go here.Since this set aims to pass a Substitute to another pokemon using it's great bulk and typing while recovering health to do it again.The best way to utilize that is by adding powerful threats whom are protected from revenge killing and status when hiding behind a Substitute as well as support crew to help gliscor to accomplish this.The first thing that comes to my mind is set up sweepers that can crack open a lot of defensive cores and become extremely threatening after set up.However gliscor will need some support to this.Another support mon or 2 that has good synergy with Gliscor and can help it do it's job such as Mew,Celebi etc who can can form a nice baton passing support core with Gliscor and maintain a string of succesfully passing subs to sweepers.So I nominate weatherless bulky offense.
My suggested playstyle is intended to have a simple structure of Support core including Gliscor for passing Subs/Boosts+A sweeping core to utilize them which will include that deal with things that Gliscor has trouble with.Such partners might be(not has to be) Cloyster(ice attacks and physical waters)Dragonite(Non HP Ice Rotom-W and such),Latios(for things like Keldeo) etc.I decided on weatherless because selecting a weather would minimize space for our selections.Gliscor's typing is quite unique and it has good synergy with a lot of pokes,thus it should be a fact when building a team around Gliscor imo to maximize partner option.
Now the big question is that why does gliscor work well in this strategy?Well Gliscor's good physical bulk always makes it a good partner for sweepers who would love to have something which can sponge attacks from physical revenge killers like Scarf terrakion,CB Scizor etc .Additionally Gliscor's ability makes it a nice status absorber for burns and paralysis as well as sleep.And Gliscor will also have other support mons to put less pressure on Gliscor and will be given the job of dealing with limited number of threats which he can handle nicely.
My suggested playstyle is intended to have a simple structure of Support core including Gliscor for passing Subs/Boosts+A sweeping core to utilize them which will include that deal with things that Gliscor has trouble with.Such partners might be(not has to be) Cloyster(ice attacks and physical waters)Dragonite(Non HP Ice Rotom-W and such),Latios(for things like Keldeo) etc.I decided on weatherless because selecting a weather would minimize space for our selections.Gliscor's typing is quite unique and it has good synergy with a lot of pokes,thus it should be a fact when building a team around Gliscor imo to maximize partner option.
Now the big question is that why does gliscor work well in this strategy?Well Gliscor's good physical bulk always makes it a good partner for sweepers who would love to have something which can sponge attacks from physical revenge killers like Scarf terrakion,CB Scizor etc .Additionally Gliscor's ability makes it a nice status absorber for burns and paralysis as well as sleep.And Gliscor will also have other support mons to put less pressure on Gliscor and will be given the job of dealing with limited number of threats which he can handle nicely.
Agreeing with Ginganinja here, I really dislike this part of the process. We should be letting the Pokemon we choose determine the playstyle, not letting the playstyle dictate which Pokemon we can and can't use. We have run into plenty of problems in the past where a Pokemon we want to add shouldn't be added because it technically doesn't fit the playstyle we chose right at the beginning of the process.
I also disagree with choosing any sort of weather or field affect to pin ourselves down to at this point. We have 1 Pokemon, how can we already have enough information to choose which weather this team should be? We can't! The only weather inducer that really gets along with Gliscor is Tyranitar, as it can use a passed Substitute to get in safely on Specs or Scald variants of Politoed.
I think our best option at this point would be to compile a list of good SubPass partners (i.e. most mons with a Water- / Ice- type resist and / or a set-up move), choose one to go with and then see later down the line which weather suits the team best.
OU Water resists:
OU Ice-resists
(Bold means they can viably run a set-up move: Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Calm Mind etc)
This is by no means a definitive list of good late-game Sub recievers, as some sweepers don't necessarily don't necessarily need the substitue to be intact to sweep; all they need is to get in safely under the blanket of the substitute, meaning defensive synergy with Gliscor isn't as important. However this is a pretty accurate list of what the best partners for SubPass Gliscor are, regarding effectiveness of keeping the Substitute intact.
I don't know why we can't just vote for Bulky Offense tbh. We get close to the same result if we just vote for a generic playstyle (Offense / Balance / Stall) and then people can nominate the weather inducers next round if they really want to. I see no need for us to be pinned down to Rain / Sun / Sand before we even know what Gliscor is passing to!
I also disagree with choosing any sort of weather or field affect to pin ourselves down to at this point. We have 1 Pokemon, how can we already have enough information to choose which weather this team should be? We can't! The only weather inducer that really gets along with Gliscor is Tyranitar, as it can use a passed Substitute to get in safely on Specs or Scald variants of Politoed.
I think our best option at this point would be to compile a list of good SubPass partners (i.e. most mons with a Water- / Ice- type resist and / or a set-up move), choose one to go with and then see later down the line which weather suits the team best.
OU Water resists:
Venusaur
Tentacruel
Vaporeon
Ferrothorn
Politoed
Latias
Latios
Hydreigon
Celebi
Jellicent
Breloom
Keldeo
Dragonite
Abomasnow
Starmie
Cloyster
Rotom-W
Salamence
Gyarados
Haxorus
Tentacruel
Vaporeon
Ferrothorn
Politoed
Latias
Latios
Hydreigon
Celebi
Jellicent
Breloom
Keldeo
Dragonite
Abomasnow
Starmie
Cloyster
Rotom-W
Salamence
Gyarados
Haxorus
OU Ice-resists
Keldeo
Forretress
Volcarona
Metagross
Vaporeon
Magnezone
Lucario
Cloyster
Rotom-W
Scizor
Ninetales
Tentacruel
Jirachi
Jellicent
Infernape
Starmie
Heatran
Genesect
Politoed
Forretress
Volcarona
Metagross
Vaporeon
Magnezone
Lucario
Cloyster
Rotom-W
Scizor
Ninetales
Tentacruel
Jirachi
Jellicent
Infernape
Starmie
Heatran
Genesect
Politoed
(Bold means they can viably run a set-up move: Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Calm Mind etc)
This is by no means a definitive list of good late-game Sub recievers, as some sweepers don't necessarily don't necessarily need the substitue to be intact to sweep; all they need is to get in safely under the blanket of the substitute, meaning defensive synergy with Gliscor isn't as important. However this is a pretty accurate list of what the best partners for SubPass Gliscor are, regarding effectiveness of keeping the Substitute intact.
I don't know why we can't just vote for Bulky Offense tbh. We get close to the same result if we just vote for a generic playstyle (Offense / Balance / Stall) and then people can nominate the weather inducers next round if they really want to. I see no need for us to be pinned down to Rain / Sun / Sand before we even know what Gliscor is passing to!
Oh oh oh. Hail! Gliscor is already one of the best defensive members for Hail teams; SubPass just makes it better, because you can a) pass to Abomasnow and ignore its defensive rubbishness, while having a very good chance of keeping the Substitute for Leech Seed + Focus Punch + Blizzard shenanigans), and b) pass to SubRoost Kyurem, which has the same excellent synergy (easily wall the Water and Grass mons which like to come in on Scor).
Bearing in mind that most of the pokemon that use Water / Ice attacks are actually water types themselves, I wouldn't mind us considering a grass type as a partner. Sure, that increases the ice weakness, but we can include a secondary receiver that can shrug off ice attacks and abuse that anyway. Venusaur (with sunlight), Celebi (to an extent) and Virizion are your best ones. Breloom also works, but its a lot frailer, and that increases the chance that the sub will be broken on the resisted move. I guess a free switch to Breloom isn't terrible, I just favor the first 3 pokemon I listed which can actually take an Ice Beam or something unlike Loom (unless you run bulk on Loom which I would be perfectly o.k with). If you drop into the lower tiers, you have Tangrowth, Lilligant, Shiftry, Victreebel, Exeggutor and Sawsbuck as other set up options, or Ferrothorn I guess if we really wanted to go with CurseThorn. Just from what we have, Sun looks to be interesting with this Gliscor, although you still have the obvious problem of trying to cram everything a sun team needs into the few free teamslots it has.
Personally, if I needed to choose a weather, it would be Sand or Weatherless (more survivability for a Sweeper). The Subpass Gliscor is a wide and versatile Supporter. The opponent will be switching and even more when they realize that it is a Baton Passer. Thus, I believe that Hazards will greatly help wearing down some counters and allow Sweepers to do their jobs. Taunt prevents the opponent setting up their hazards and prevent them from phazing us.
I've not decided yet, but I would either say Balanced tending towards Offense, Sand or Weatherless. A lot of Pokemon work well with Gliscor and we should make good usage of them.
I've not decided yet, but I would either say Balanced tending towards Offense, Sand or Weatherless. A lot of Pokemon work well with Gliscor and we should make good usage of them.
I would nominate Sand Offense.
First of all, Sand is the most flexible weather, so we will have many open choices, on top of having 2 very different inducers to choose from.
Second, having a weather is probably the best check against other weathers.
Third - surprise value. Having Gliscor on a Sand Team screams AcroGliscor, and this can be easily utilized to bring in something safe behind a sub (Keldeo, for example).
First of all, Sand is the most flexible weather, so we will have many open choices, on top of having 2 very different inducers to choose from.
Second, having a weather is probably the best check against other weathers.
Third - surprise value. Having Gliscor on a Sand Team screams AcroGliscor, and this can be easily utilized to bring in something safe behind a sub (Keldeo, for example).
I, Scarlequin the Almighty Immortal Eternal God, actually ran SubPass Gliscor in one of my most successful BW1 teams. I used it in conjunction with Shell Smash Gorebyss, a highly underrated Pokemon to destroy and devour the vital organs of the (tank tons of abusive language and hatred) that dare question my immense power.
The team wasnt dedicated Baton Pass but the synergy of those two Pokemon led to many comprehensive victories. Gorebyss resists the water and Ice attacks which plague Gliscor, and Gliscor is immune to the Lightning attacks which hurt Gorebyss, as well as tanking the brutal physical Fighting and Ground attacks that Gorebyss wont appreciate.
Both were resistant to status, Gliscor with its Toxic Orb and Substitute and Gorebyss with Hydration, meaning it is really anti meta, against the overpowered and overused Drizzle teams that frequent the Showdown server. We could even run Drizzle Support of our own if it complements the entire team.
Gliscors set was Earthquake, Taunt, Substitute, Baton Pass with a very similar EV spread to PenguinXs seen above.
Gorebyss' was Surf, Shell Smash, Baton Pass, Sub/Ice Beam/HP Grass with a spread which allowed it to outspeed 99% of the unboosted/non scarfed tier after a Shell Smash. The item was White Herb.
Oftentimes because of their typing synergy I would Baton Pass between the two until I could get a Sub intact, with a Shell Smash boost in tow and/or a Taunt on obvious phazers. Both of the Pokemon were capable of doing work of their own, in particular Gorebyss who could set up Shell Smashes on Pokemon like Politoed, Vaporeon, Chansey, Gastrodon, Blissey, Tentacruel and other common Drizzle mons with ease as well as tons of other Pokemon in the tier.
The main cleaner I used was Mixed Wallbreaker Hydreigon with either a Lum Berry/Life Orb, and a set of Fire Blast, Outrage, Earthquake and Draco Meteor. The primary reason for this is the excellent attacking stats on both sides of the spectrum and the defensive synergy with Gliscor and Gorebyss. Gorebyss can Baton Pass its Shell Smash to Hydreigon, before the opponent uses a SE Grass/Lightning move, both of which Hydreigon resists, and if Hydreigon gets a Shell Smash boost with a Sub intact its almost certainly game over. Also the opponent is unlikely to use a Bug/Fighting move on Gliscor due to its resistance to them, therefore I can Baton Pass to Hydreigon knowing the opponent is unlikely to land a hit with either of Hydreigons most commonly seen weaknesses.
Other potential partners are Heatran which could be lethal with a Shell Smash boost, has wonderful defensive synergy with Gliscor, Gliscor resisting and being immune respectively to the Fighting and Ground attacks which Heatran loathes. Their mutual weakness is covered by Gorebyss. Heatran can be the anti sun measure, as well as the counter to the new overpowered threats of the BW2 metagame including Genesect, and Tornadus-T. If you choose to run Heatran and Hydreigon as partners, Drought support would be apt, and Gorebyss would become the anti rain measure if you lose the weather war.
The final partner I would recommend is Focus Sash Magic Guard Alakazam, even without recieving boosts its an extremely useful Pokemon, ending the sweep of any Venusaur lacking Sleep Powder, Chlorophyll users in general, Dragon Dancers that have got too many boosts for you to deal with, Volcarona, boosting Terrakion, Rock Polish Landorus, the list goes on. The set I would use is Psyshock, Focus Blast/HP Ice, Shadow Ball, Psych Up with 252 Sp Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Sp Def
Psych Up allows you to obtain the boosts of Rock Polish Landorus, Quiver Dance Volcarona, Dragon Dancers, and then outspeed and KO them. It sounds situational but it gives you the chance to sweep their entire team. Yes they may have a priority user to come in and revenge you, but most importantly youve dealt with a threat that your team couldnt handle, and youve effectively forced their hand, regarding what to promote next. Plus if Alakazam has more to offer to the battle you can always switch it out and preserve it at 1HP. Furthermore if Alakazam gets passed a Shell Smash with a Sub and its Focus Sash intact, you can say goodnight to the vast majority of teams. Only the other day I baited an opponents Volcarona into boosting to +6 +6 +6 by constantly switching around my Pokemon feigning I had no answer to it, and sacing one on purpose, then promoting Sash Zam, Psych Upping the Quiver Dances, leaving me at 1 HP after a Bug Buzz, revenging the Volcarona with Psyshock and proceeding to sweep their entire team. It felt epic and it's incredibly satisfying. Psyshock is chosen over Psychic for this reason, hitting Volcarona on its unboosted Defense, the same logic for CM Keldeo, it hits Terrakion harder in Sandstorm and also lays hurt on the pink blobs. HP Ice is a niche but useful option to revenge Rock Polish Landorus and Dragon Dancers, whereas Shadow Ball and Focus Blast would be for perfect coverage.
So that is my concept for this CCAT, please do give me your feedback, this took a lot of thought and time, and I am grateful to any that have read all of this!
So in summary the suggestion Im putting forward is a Baton Passing core of Gorebyss and Gliscor in either Drought or Drizzle conditions.
The team of Gliscor, Gorebyss, Heatran, Alakazam, Hydreigon and Ninetales is just an example team, which I will create myself because I am the immortal God, the greatest player in the World and it is undefeatable.
The Eternal Immortal God Scarlequin ~ xx
As an aside Zapdos with LightningRod when it is finally released would be a God on this team, with a moveset of Agility Thunderbolt Heatwave Baton Pass or similar
The team wasnt dedicated Baton Pass but the synergy of those two Pokemon led to many comprehensive victories. Gorebyss resists the water and Ice attacks which plague Gliscor, and Gliscor is immune to the Lightning attacks which hurt Gorebyss, as well as tanking the brutal physical Fighting and Ground attacks that Gorebyss wont appreciate.
Both were resistant to status, Gliscor with its Toxic Orb and Substitute and Gorebyss with Hydration, meaning it is really anti meta, against the overpowered and overused Drizzle teams that frequent the Showdown server. We could even run Drizzle Support of our own if it complements the entire team.
Gliscors set was Earthquake, Taunt, Substitute, Baton Pass with a very similar EV spread to PenguinXs seen above.
Gorebyss' was Surf, Shell Smash, Baton Pass, Sub/Ice Beam/HP Grass with a spread which allowed it to outspeed 99% of the unboosted/non scarfed tier after a Shell Smash. The item was White Herb.
Oftentimes because of their typing synergy I would Baton Pass between the two until I could get a Sub intact, with a Shell Smash boost in tow and/or a Taunt on obvious phazers. Both of the Pokemon were capable of doing work of their own, in particular Gorebyss who could set up Shell Smashes on Pokemon like Politoed, Vaporeon, Chansey, Gastrodon, Blissey, Tentacruel and other common Drizzle mons with ease as well as tons of other Pokemon in the tier.
The main cleaner I used was Mixed Wallbreaker Hydreigon with either a Lum Berry/Life Orb, and a set of Fire Blast, Outrage, Earthquake and Draco Meteor. The primary reason for this is the excellent attacking stats on both sides of the spectrum and the defensive synergy with Gliscor and Gorebyss. Gorebyss can Baton Pass its Shell Smash to Hydreigon, before the opponent uses a SE Grass/Lightning move, both of which Hydreigon resists, and if Hydreigon gets a Shell Smash boost with a Sub intact its almost certainly game over. Also the opponent is unlikely to use a Bug/Fighting move on Gliscor due to its resistance to them, therefore I can Baton Pass to Hydreigon knowing the opponent is unlikely to land a hit with either of Hydreigons most commonly seen weaknesses.
Other potential partners are Heatran which could be lethal with a Shell Smash boost, has wonderful defensive synergy with Gliscor, Gliscor resisting and being immune respectively to the Fighting and Ground attacks which Heatran loathes. Their mutual weakness is covered by Gorebyss. Heatran can be the anti sun measure, as well as the counter to the new overpowered threats of the BW2 metagame including Genesect, and Tornadus-T. If you choose to run Heatran and Hydreigon as partners, Drought support would be apt, and Gorebyss would become the anti rain measure if you lose the weather war.
The final partner I would recommend is Focus Sash Magic Guard Alakazam, even without recieving boosts its an extremely useful Pokemon, ending the sweep of any Venusaur lacking Sleep Powder, Chlorophyll users in general, Dragon Dancers that have got too many boosts for you to deal with, Volcarona, boosting Terrakion, Rock Polish Landorus, the list goes on. The set I would use is Psyshock, Focus Blast/HP Ice, Shadow Ball, Psych Up with 252 Sp Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Sp Def
Psych Up allows you to obtain the boosts of Rock Polish Landorus, Quiver Dance Volcarona, Dragon Dancers, and then outspeed and KO them. It sounds situational but it gives you the chance to sweep their entire team. Yes they may have a priority user to come in and revenge you, but most importantly youve dealt with a threat that your team couldnt handle, and youve effectively forced their hand, regarding what to promote next. Plus if Alakazam has more to offer to the battle you can always switch it out and preserve it at 1HP. Furthermore if Alakazam gets passed a Shell Smash with a Sub and its Focus Sash intact, you can say goodnight to the vast majority of teams. Only the other day I baited an opponents Volcarona into boosting to +6 +6 +6 by constantly switching around my Pokemon feigning I had no answer to it, and sacing one on purpose, then promoting Sash Zam, Psych Upping the Quiver Dances, leaving me at 1 HP after a Bug Buzz, revenging the Volcarona with Psyshock and proceeding to sweep their entire team. It felt epic and it's incredibly satisfying. Psyshock is chosen over Psychic for this reason, hitting Volcarona on its unboosted Defense, the same logic for CM Keldeo, it hits Terrakion harder in Sandstorm and also lays hurt on the pink blobs. HP Ice is a niche but useful option to revenge Rock Polish Landorus and Dragon Dancers, whereas Shadow Ball and Focus Blast would be for perfect coverage.
So that is my concept for this CCAT, please do give me your feedback, this took a lot of thought and time, and I am grateful to any that have read all of this!
So in summary the suggestion Im putting forward is a Baton Passing core of Gorebyss and Gliscor in either Drought or Drizzle conditions.
The team of Gliscor, Gorebyss, Heatran, Alakazam, Hydreigon and Ninetales is just an example team, which I will create myself because I am the immortal God, the greatest player in the World and it is undefeatable.
The Eternal Immortal God Scarlequin ~ xx
As an aside Zapdos with LightningRod when it is finally released would be a God on this team, with a moveset of Agility Thunderbolt Heatwave Baton Pass or similar
I would like to nominate bulky offense (despite what the rules say) because I agree with PengiunX. Basically, we want to BP and pass the substitute to pokemon that are offensive, but have enough bulk to both resist common hits thrown at Gliscor and bulk to keep the substitute in tact. I feel (as others have stated) that naming a specific playstyle is limiting. I would much rather let the teammates determine what Pokemon we use and the playstyle it becomes. That's how I often build my own teams (ex: RP Genesect is weak to Heatran; let me try Pokemon X to counter it, etc.)
tl;tr: bulky offense, and lets go from there.
tl;tr: bulky offense, and lets go from there.
Since you seem to want feedback; I'll provide some.
We weren't asking for a pre-made team with SubPass Gliscor, just a playstyle. You only told us a core you were using (Gorebyss and Gliscor) and then you go off about how amazing it was to pass it to abusers. You never nominated a playstyle, which is the process of this CCAT atm. Please nom a playstyle, and explain why, like the rest of us. Don't give us your team, this isn't the purpose of this thread, which sadly is probably why it wasn't addressed by the one user who posted afterwards (lol me).
Couldn't agree more with Ginganinja. We should first look what offensive / defensive partners benefit the most from Gliscors ability to pass Subs, and not what playstyle to use. If we chose first the playstyle, we will limit the number of the potential partners that Gliscor could have had, which is something undesirable.
So the best step would be to first chose the partners of Gliscor. What kind of pokes benefit most from a free turn? This doesn't need much though, offensive pokes, so i think the best 2 partners would be one set-up sweeper and one wallbreaker/hard hitter. Then we can either go all out offense, or more bulky offense/balance, which i believe is the best option, as Gliscor doesn't fit so well in all out offense.
So let us chose two to three partners that will abuse Gliscor's ability to pass subs the best, and then chose a solid support core for them. Chosing a playstyle seems too limiting to me, as one will pop out anyway after chosing the next 2-3 partners, and serves only to limit the potential number of Gliscors partners. Some rather good options are Cloyster, CB Tyranitar, DD Gyarados, any Keldeo, Hydreigon and SD Scizor.
Cloyster is unable to come into anything except from Ice attacks though, as even the weakest special water attacks will break its sub, so i don't think it is the best option. CB Tyranitar seems excellent to win weather wars and to trap porblematic special attackers, while getting in unscathed, Gyarados takes anything from bulky waters all day and same with Keldeo, and SD Scizor comes into potential Dragon (Lati@s), Ice, Ghost (Gengar is one of the best Gliscor initial switch-ins remember) and Grass attacks aimed at Gliscor (Celebi, Amoonguss and friends). Any Dragon seems as a good partner as well, but a well timed Ice Beam breaks the sub, which many bulky waters carry, so it may be a bit more difficult to maintain the Sub. Hydreigon is probably the best partner out of all dragons, as it the best wallbreaker in the tier, and has Roost so even if the Sub breaks you can still blow everything up, without worrying about your health. My favourite partners so far are SD Scizor, standard Hydreigon, and DD Gyarados. All of those pokes are pretty destructive if given a free Sub, and even moreso with the right support (weakneing of counters, hazards, defensive partners, etc).
EDIT: ScarlequinTheImmortalGod i never said that i was the first to mention those partners to Gliscor, just mentioned whatever i had in mind to also explain why they work good with Gliscor.
So the best step would be to first chose the partners of Gliscor. What kind of pokes benefit most from a free turn? This doesn't need much though, offensive pokes, so i think the best 2 partners would be one set-up sweeper and one wallbreaker/hard hitter. Then we can either go all out offense, or more bulky offense/balance, which i believe is the best option, as Gliscor doesn't fit so well in all out offense.
So let us chose two to three partners that will abuse Gliscor's ability to pass subs the best, and then chose a solid support core for them. Chosing a playstyle seems too limiting to me, as one will pop out anyway after chosing the next 2-3 partners, and serves only to limit the potential number of Gliscors partners. Some rather good options are Cloyster, CB Tyranitar, DD Gyarados, any Keldeo, Hydreigon and SD Scizor.
Cloyster is unable to come into anything except from Ice attacks though, as even the weakest special water attacks will break its sub, so i don't think it is the best option. CB Tyranitar seems excellent to win weather wars and to trap porblematic special attackers, while getting in unscathed, Gyarados takes anything from bulky waters all day and same with Keldeo, and SD Scizor comes into potential Dragon (Lati@s), Ice, Ghost (Gengar is one of the best Gliscor initial switch-ins remember) and Grass attacks aimed at Gliscor (Celebi, Amoonguss and friends). Any Dragon seems as a good partner as well, but a well timed Ice Beam breaks the sub, which many bulky waters carry, so it may be a bit more difficult to maintain the Sub. Hydreigon is probably the best partner out of all dragons, as it the best wallbreaker in the tier, and has Roost so even if the Sub breaks you can still blow everything up, without worrying about your health. My favourite partners so far are SD Scizor, standard Hydreigon, and DD Gyarados. All of those pokes are pretty destructive if given a free Sub, and even moreso with the right support (weakneing of counters, hazards, defensive partners, etc).
EDIT: ScarlequinTheImmortalGod i never said that i was the first to mention those partners to Gliscor, just mentioned whatever i had in mind to also explain why they work good with Gliscor.
Now you all understand why Im furious and upset, theres no consistency, Im being told contrasting things. Shurtugal is crying at me for posting recipients of Gliscors Sub Passes and not just a playstyle, and then Alexwolf says the exact opposite and that we should be looking for partners and not a playstyle
Im so deeply upset, Im crying here, somebody please pay attention to my post because it took so much time and thought and it does include potential partners for Sub Pass Gliscor which is what we are searching for
@alexwolf I dont mind that you werent the first to mention those partners to Gliscor, repeating my or others' ideas isnt whats frustrating me, but you can at least tell Shurtugal to stop being nasty to me about not posting a playstyle, because 1. I did as shown in the quote a couple messages back and 2. Even you said it was more about partner Pokemon than playstyle so hes completely wrong and treating me with disrespect for no reason
Im so deeply upset, Im crying here, somebody please pay attention to my post because it took so much time and thought and it does include potential partners for Sub Pass Gliscor which is what we are searching for
@alexwolf I dont mind that you werent the first to mention those partners to Gliscor, repeating my or others' ideas isnt whats frustrating me, but you can at least tell Shurtugal to stop being nasty to me about not posting a playstyle, because 1. I did as shown in the quote a couple messages back and 2. Even you said it was more about partner Pokemon than playstyle so hes completely wrong and treating me with disrespect for no reason
Bryce
Lun
Scarlequin.Well relax.You've posted your opinion,now you do not have to look for people acknowledging your posts just yet.This a CCAT process.People have read the posts and they are simply voicing their opinions.Just because it isn't getting much response doesn't mean people are ignoring it.
Now I'm confused.Will the CCAT proceed as directed by Electrolyte by selecting playstyle now that a lot of people have agreed that we should first approach which strategy suits best and then pick partners and later pick playstyle/weather when we have a good base or core.
Now I'm confused.Will the CCAT proceed as directed by Electrolyte by selecting playstyle now that a lot of people have agreed that we should first approach which strategy suits best and then pick partners and later pick playstyle/weather when we have a good base or core.
I don't think voting for a playstyle really helps the process at all, although I'm okay with just choosing an incredibly loose label for the team i.e. nothing more specific than Offense, Bulky Offense, Balance or Stall. Anything more specific than this just seems unnecessary.
If anyone really wants this team to be Rain Offense then they can nominate Politoed at some point in the process, the same goes for Sand / Sun / Hail / Trick Room / Gravity / Volt-turn or whatever. Labelling ourselves with a very specific playstyle this early in the process does nothing but put people off nominating good sets, all because they don't fit with the playstyle we chose even if they would be a good choice for the team.
If anyone really wants this team to be Rain Offense then they can nominate Politoed at some point in the process, the same goes for Sand / Sun / Hail / Trick Room / Gravity / Volt-turn or whatever. Labelling ourselves with a very specific playstyle this early in the process does nothing but put people off nominating good sets, all because they don't fit with the playstyle we chose even if they would be a good choice for the team.
Scarlequin, you have absolutely no right to complain. Stop cursing and flaming others. Any more childish sass from you, and I will contact a moderator. Seriously, shut up.
@ White symphoni: Right now, we're choosing a specific team style to loosely base our team around. We will, by no means, be restricted to thr strategy we choose, but it will give us a direction to work towards, and a reference to look upon.
Here's my nomination:
Weatherless Hyper Offense
Gliscor doesn't really need, sand, especially for this set, which has more of an offensive than defensive nature. Gliscor's primary goal is to pass Substitutes- and what playstyle loves Substitute more than Hyper Offense? With this strategy, we'll try to incorporate not only strong choiced sweepers that need a little oomph to break through walls but also a few set up sweepers that can totally dismantle opponents after a couple boosts. Gliscor is a mix of both support and offense, and can be used as both a pivot and a tank. Hyper Offensive teams need those kinds of pokemon in order to take one or two hits- and even though Gliscor isn't fully invested in bulk, it has enough to be able to do just that.
Our main focus would probably be centering around a strong voltturn core in the beginning of the match, with perhaps hazards to wear the opponent down. Gliscor will be part of that core- as Baton Pass is really a non-damaging VoltTurn- and when the time is right, a Sub will be passed to a sweeper, and we will attempt to use that short time limit to either punch holes or set up. After that, a cleaner can come in and revenge everything else to death, possibly with the help of hazards.
@ White symphoni: Right now, we're choosing a specific team style to loosely base our team around. We will, by no means, be restricted to thr strategy we choose, but it will give us a direction to work towards, and a reference to look upon.
Here's my nomination:
Weatherless Hyper Offense
Gliscor doesn't really need, sand, especially for this set, which has more of an offensive than defensive nature. Gliscor's primary goal is to pass Substitutes- and what playstyle loves Substitute more than Hyper Offense? With this strategy, we'll try to incorporate not only strong choiced sweepers that need a little oomph to break through walls but also a few set up sweepers that can totally dismantle opponents after a couple boosts. Gliscor is a mix of both support and offense, and can be used as both a pivot and a tank. Hyper Offensive teams need those kinds of pokemon in order to take one or two hits- and even though Gliscor isn't fully invested in bulk, it has enough to be able to do just that.
Our main focus would probably be centering around a strong voltturn core in the beginning of the match, with perhaps hazards to wear the opponent down. Gliscor will be part of that core- as Baton Pass is really a non-damaging VoltTurn- and when the time is right, a Sub will be passed to a sweeper, and we will attempt to use that short time limit to either punch holes or set up. After that, a cleaner can come in and revenge everything else to death, possibly with the help of hazards.
A fast Pokemon that can set and pass Substitute? I agree with Electrolyte that this literally cries for an aggressive playstyle. However, I came up with yet another idea: Baton Pass Offense!
Sounds weird, huh? Let me explain my thoughts..
While I was checking about defensive options, I noticed that Baton Passing Substitutes isn't exactly helpful at all, since playing with a number of bulkier and mostly slower Pokemon, not much will profit from Substitute. Due to Gliscor's high speed stat, it usually goes for Baton Pass before the opponent attacks, which means the Pass receiver will get hit by any move. Even if that doesn't exactly means the Sub will break, the opponent now knows what he/she has to deal with, giving our team just a few turns to take advantage of Substitute.
More aggressive teams (such as less bulkier, offensive teams) will have just another problem: they aren't really able to keep Substitute alive for more than a turn or maybe two, due to their fragility. That again means, without proper coverage, the opponent most likely can find a way to break through.
What I thought was: What if we suddenly are able to give our team the opportunity to pass around our Substitute the way we need at the moment. Tornadus-T? Yea, what you think about Zapdos. Politoed? Cool, taste my Vaporeon. Status-users and Hazard layers? Here's Xatu!
The most interessting point about such a team would be, that there are a couple of Pokemon, that can set up with several moves (such as Shell Smash Smeargle/Gorebyss, or Quiver Dance Venomoth) so it's possible to put even more pressure throughout the match.
Layers of hazards before starting our offensive Baton Pass chain will surely help, as this playstyle will certainly cause a high number of switches. Also, in contrast to VoltTurn cores, Baton Passing Pokemon won't get hit by Pursuit nor will it cause us losing our Substitute.
Gliscor should work pretty well on such a team, especially if we chose to run Taunt instead of Toxic, as our team will more likely run burn or paralysis support, giving higher chances to keep Substitute active for a longer period of time. Also, this would help to avoid phazers, which I actually see very rarely lately, but such Pokemon aren't dead yet. Gliscor's natural bulk, good speed and somewhat bulky Substitutes will hardly break after a one or two attacks, depending on how we have to predict the opponents moves.
Sounds weird, huh? Let me explain my thoughts..
While I was checking about defensive options, I noticed that Baton Passing Substitutes isn't exactly helpful at all, since playing with a number of bulkier and mostly slower Pokemon, not much will profit from Substitute. Due to Gliscor's high speed stat, it usually goes for Baton Pass before the opponent attacks, which means the Pass receiver will get hit by any move. Even if that doesn't exactly means the Sub will break, the opponent now knows what he/she has to deal with, giving our team just a few turns to take advantage of Substitute.
More aggressive teams (such as less bulkier, offensive teams) will have just another problem: they aren't really able to keep Substitute alive for more than a turn or maybe two, due to their fragility. That again means, without proper coverage, the opponent most likely can find a way to break through.
What I thought was: What if we suddenly are able to give our team the opportunity to pass around our Substitute the way we need at the moment. Tornadus-T? Yea, what you think about Zapdos. Politoed? Cool, taste my Vaporeon. Status-users and Hazard layers? Here's Xatu!
The most interessting point about such a team would be, that there are a couple of Pokemon, that can set up with several moves (such as Shell Smash Smeargle/Gorebyss, or Quiver Dance Venomoth) so it's possible to put even more pressure throughout the match.
Layers of hazards before starting our offensive Baton Pass chain will surely help, as this playstyle will certainly cause a high number of switches. Also, in contrast to VoltTurn cores, Baton Passing Pokemon won't get hit by Pursuit nor will it cause us losing our Substitute.
Gliscor should work pretty well on such a team, especially if we chose to run Taunt instead of Toxic, as our team will more likely run burn or paralysis support, giving higher chances to keep Substitute active for a longer period of time. Also, this would help to avoid phazers, which I actually see very rarely lately, but such Pokemon aren't dead yet. Gliscor's natural bulk, good speed and somewhat bulky Substitutes will hardly break after a one or two attacks, depending on how we have to predict the opponents moves.