The Next Best Thing v2 - Latios

Voting is now closed and the winner is Lavos Spawn's Sheer Force Conkeldurr set. This set will be added in the v2 archive featured in the second post of the thread. Congratulations Lavos for being the second person to have two of their sets in the archive!

The next subject is the Boundary Pokémon, Kyurem Black!

Voting will take place in 4 days!

Kyurem-Black @ Salac Berry
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Hone Claws
- Roost
- Dragon Claw

The plan is really simple... Just eliminate steels and find a good pokemon to set up on. Once you get the sub up and do a hone claw not much can be done to beat you. 482 attack is already massive so even just a salac berry boost should be enough to sweep with SR + 1 layer.... A hone claw is just an added bonus. Two hone claws you can forget about it as you are at least 2hkoing the entire 600 pokemon roster. Roost can be used after the boost has been received or if you are in a specific situation where you are not going for the boost. The ev spread is elementary and probably can be tweaked but the concept stays the same. You want all the speed you can get before the boost and even without heavy defensive investments you are taking weak attacks just fine.... He has very nice typing. I used a team with specs gothitelle and had a great time on the ladder. Defeating skarmory and ferrothorn really opened things up for this thing as most teams don't run more than 1 steel type. Also shed shell has decreased in popularity due to popular battlers and RMTs using lefties or custap berry.

I've been waiting for this one.


Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 72 Spd / 252 HP / 136 SDef / 48 Def
Careful Nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Tail
- Roost

This set isn't completely my creation - I got the idea from a set Shrang suggested for the on-site analysis, and after some playing around I decided to merge it with the speedy EV spread for the SubShuffler. The combination of the two resulted in a surprisingly efficient set.

Since Kyurem-B's attack stat is so high, it can afford to simply forgo attack investment and invest completely in its bulk. The given EV spread lets it survive such things as Jolly Garchomp's unboosted Outrage and Landorus-I's Focus Blast provided it's at full health and Stealth Rock is off the field. The speed investment is so it can outspeed max speed Tyranitar and SpD Celebi.

Dragon Tail is the key move of the set - Kyurem-B forces switches, and using Dragon Tail on the switch in completely screws up their momentum. This Kyurem-B likes having entry hazard support - Dragon Tail will hurt even more when both the foe getting smacked with Dragon Tail and the foe getting dragged out take damage. Outrage and Fusion Bolt are there to let Kyurem-B finish off weakened opponents; it's perfectly capable of taking a non-SE hit to score a kill if need be thanks to its bulk. Roost is Roost - the reliable recovery lets it abuse its bulk more.

@Curtains EDIT: Forget that Stone Edge recommendation. I forgot Fusion Bolt. I think Fusion Bolt over Roost will be much more helpful to let you get past even some steels.

Kyurem-B@Power Herb
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SpA
Nature: Hasty
- Freeze Shock
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt

This set hits VERY hard. Opponents are completely surprised by Freeze Shock which OHKOes a lot of the tier. Even if it doesn't, thanks to chances of paralysis, Kyurem-B can finish it off with one of it's other moves, thus guaranteeing a KO.
The other moves are simply for coverage, but trust me after a Freeze Shock, most mons are goners. Even if they survive, Kyurem-B has dealt enough damage to OHKO on the next turn.

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 32 HP / 232 SAtk / 244 Spd
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam / Blizzard
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
- Roost

This is a set that I've been using to success for quite some time now. It foregoes the protection from Substitute in exchange for increased power (Life Orb) and overall longevity (Roost). Since hazards are so prevalent in this metagame, I find on average you only get to use Substitute once, maybe twice against a good player, which takes a toll on your already limited lifespan. However, Roost lets Kyurem-B come back to do its job multiple times if played correctly.

Contrary to popular opinion, Kyurem-B doesn't even need to use Dragon STAB to be deadly. The impressive coverage provided by Ice Beam/Fusion Bolt/Earth Power more than makes up for it - hitting the majority of Pokémon seen commonly in OU teams for SE damage. The list of things that are 2HKOd at worst by this set is rather extensive - pretty much the only things that aren't are SDef Ferrothorn, SDef Forretress, Chansey and Cresselia, but the former two can be easily worn down over time and the latter two are uncommon anyway.

Obviously this set is not designed to sweep, but to destroy defensive cores. It is similar to LO Roost Hydreigon, except Kyurem-B does wall-breaking better because none of its moves have any drawbacks like Draco Meteor/Superpower do, meaning it is much harder to exploit by clever switching. Since it doesn't have Substitute, you have to utilise prediction in order to make the most of this set, but it's not like that's a negative attribute since good prediction should be expected anyway. The EV spread puts emphasis on its Sp. Attack stat, since its Attack stat is so naturally high that it is still has a huge 376 Attack stat when completely uninvested with a neutral nature. I'm using Mild as opposed to Rash since Kyurem-B's Defense stat is less relevant due to it being weak to the most commonly used physical moves (e.g. Close Combat, Outrage, Stone Edge, Bullet Punch etc). The HP investment gives it a Life Orb number, and the Speed investment lets it creep over both 188 Spd Landorus-I and 96 Spd+ Tentacruel. Blizzard has been slashed after Ice Beam since if you're running hail you'll probably be using that, giving you even greater wall-breaking power.

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Fusion Bolt
- Earth Power
- Protect

Substitute is a great move, but not if the opponent KO's you before you can use it. On top of that losing 50% HP from SR and Sub before you even attack isn't exactly awesome. This is where Protect comes in.

Looking at the moveset analysis for Kyurem-B, it's easy to notice that its main offensive checks - Scizor, Keldeo and Terrakion - are choiced more than 50% of the time.

When facing them without a Substitute Kyu-B will usually find itself on the receiving end of Close Combat (from Terrakion), Secret Sword (from Keldeo) or Bullet Punch (from Scizor), so it will likely be forced out.
However, what if a smart opponent predicts this and opts to use another move, such as Superpower on Scizor or Stone Edge on Terrakion?
Terrakion and Keldeo don't like being locked into a fighting-type attack if the opposing team has a ghost-type and the same can be said about Scizor and Bullet Punch if Magnezone is waiting behind the wings - incidentally these are common partners for Kyurem-B so these mindgames will often take place.
Thanks to Protect you can be a step ahead against these choiced opponents and plan your next move accordingly.

Get Kyu-B in against something it can either kill or force out such as Politoed and use the appropriate move. Wait for the inevitable Scizor/Terrakion/Keldeo switch-in and use Protect to scout their attack, then switch to the appropriate check (such as Magnezone, Lando-T and Jellicent).
This goes without saying, but you need to watch out for "surprises" such as Expert Belt Keldeo.

Since you're not using Substitute this set can afford running Life Orb instead of Leftovers, which lets Kyu-B 2HKO Ferrothorn with Ice Beam and specially defensive Jirachi with Earth Power most of the time, thus eliminating two other potential checks.
You lose the ability to avoid status without Substitute, so pairing Kyu-B with a cleric is recommended. Celebi can check Terrakion locked into Close Combat and act as a cleric, so it's a good partner.

ViktorNrv said:

@Curtains EDIT: Forget that Stone Edge recommendation. I forgot Fusion Bolt. I think Fusion Bolt over Roost will be much more helpful to let you get past even some steels.

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Fusion bolt is intresting... But for every Skarmory game there are going to be 10 games with Stealth Rocks or times when i need roost.

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Ice Beam
- Roost

Hi. I used one set like this once or something like this, i don't remember exactly, and it worked really well. Hint: It isn't going to die.

252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Kyurem-B: 344-408 (75.77 - 89.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

edit: yo, vemane, that set is already on-site under "physically based mixed attacker"

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Check evs dawg

thanks for once again choosing my set guys. nice of you

i don't really care enough about subpar kyurem-b sets to post one, but i'll back darkblazer's set since it looks the most viable out of all these. i mean, salac hone claws, really? this isn't showdown ladder. primarily spattacking kyu-b can succeed in a metagame where it's expected to have no more than one special coverage move, e.g. heatran sees ice beam, thinks it's safe, gets popped by ep. good stuff

edit: yo, vemane, that set is already on-site under "physically based mixed attacker"

I was thinking that Kyurem B already had all viable sets on the site, but then I noticed it had access to Icy Wind. I decided to test out the following set:


Kyurem-B @Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild nature
-Icy Wind
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power Fire
-Outrage

This set is practically the same thing as the specially based mixed attacker, with one crucial difference: Icy Wind. It functions a bit like Low Sweep Breloom, taking advantage of the switches Kyurem B forces in order to cripple the switch in with Icy Wind. Using the calculator, I discovered that this set can actually 2HKO the entire OU meta with the appropriate combination of moves after Stealth Rock. Icy Wind helps this by crippling offensive switch ins. It works also as an amazing wallbreaker as the specially based mixed set also does.

Lol lavos. At least put a set up if you are going to slam others without reasoning :).

But I do like these special attacking sets. I think ky-b has an edge over kyruem in the fact that he can hit politoed super effectively. Ferrothron will always be a problem in the rain as you simply can't hit it hard enough while it sets up or kos you. I do like darkblazers set because you handle rain teams without really needing to be scared of the burn from scald. You still lose to ferro.... But with proper team support you can get past him easily. I don't think my set is too bad as I believe I got a few tour round victories with it. But I think darks set is more versatile and useable on any team.

I was, coincidentally, also thinking of using Icy Wind, but in a different way.



Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SpD
Nature: Sassy
-Fusion Bolt
-Icy Wind
-Sunny Day
-Roost

The surprise factor comes from the fact that having multiple weather inducers on the same team in OU is very uncommon due to auto-weather. Fusion Bolt is Kyurem's most reliable STAB, so it must have a place here. It also hits Politoed for significant damage, even with almost no attack investment. Why does this matter so much? Because this Kyurem is a backup Sun setter, that can manage Politoed better than Ninetales can, resisting Politoed's STAB Water-type moves. Icy Wind lets Kyurem-B hinder many Pokemon, mostly Scarfers and the handful of OU Pokemon with a 4x weakness (Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, Landorus, and Gliscor). Roost compensates for Kyurem-B's Stealth Rock weakness and will let Kyurem-B check opposing Politoed (without Focus Blast) more reliably as the weather war rages on. The EVs maximize special bulk, since Kyurem's special defense needs to be fairly high to tank Politoed's attacks optimally, as well as other attacks, such as Gastrodon's Earth Power, Hydreigon's Fire Blast, etc.

Lavos Spawn said:

i don't really care enough about subpar kyurem-b sets to post one, but i'll back darkblazer's set since it looks the most viable out of all these. i mean, salac hone claws, really? this isn't showdown ladder. primarily spattacking kyu-b can succeed in a metagame where it's expected to have no more than one special coverage move, e.g. heatran sees ice beam, thinks it's safe, gets popped by ep. good stuff

Click to expand...

Glad you like it

It tends to completely demolish bulky sand teams, and can also do a number to most rain teams, especially those lacking Chansey. Even against offensive teams it can pull its weight; if you can get it in against something slower or against something locked into a move that can't hurt it (i.e. Scarf Keldeo Hydro Pump, Scarf Jirachi Ice Punch etc), you can almost guarantee that something will die as it's almost impossible for offensive teams to switch into safely. You can also use Roost on predicted switches so that you can stay healthy even with SR on the field.

Curtains said:

Lol lavos. At least put a set up if you are going to slam others without reasoning :).

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ugh last time i did and it beat yours!

and my bad vemane, didn't notice your interesting evs (though i wouldn't run them without sub to shield from status tbh). cool sets everyone

I think i may have run it with a sub now that you mention it.

I recall eving it for the purpose of taking less than 25% from some rain boosted hpump. Idk where that team went though

Ok a new set w/ a twist


Kyurem-B @Focus Sash
Teravolt
Lonely
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
IVs: 0 HP/0 Def/0 SpD
-Endeavor
-Icy Wind
-Fusion Bolt
-Dragon Claw

This set is the lead wrecker and can also dispose of MANY sweepers. It works best against hyper offense, as those types of teams lack pokemon bulky enough to take a hit (unless they run Jirachi, but all sweeper variants of Rachis are 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt).

The idea is to force a switch so Kyu-B can use Icy Wind. Thus breaking sashes, and slowung down foes, so Kyu-B can outspeed. After one Icy Wind, (im pretty sure Icy Wind drops speed by 30%) this variant of Kyu-B can outspeed even max speed Jolteon. Then I can proceed to slaughter with coverage moves. If I get brought down to 1HP (thus the 0 defense IVs), I use Endeavor, a move that becomes so unreasonably powerful, that I slaughter even resists. The cool thing is that no ghost will ever dare directly switch inon Kyu-B, as Gengar fears OHKOs from anymove, and Jelly fears Fusion Bolt.

I know this may not be the best set (it pales compared to DarkBlazrs) but I feel it has some great potential.

This set loathes pokemon that resist FBolt, Dragon Claw, and Endeavor, so it pairs well with Magnezone to eliminate them. It also pairs well with Gothitelle as she can eliminate Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Heatran with the correct moves.

Well Sash is nice, but with SR almost a guarantee, Cube has no business running a sash. Also, Endeavor only brings an opponent to your own HP level, meaning it does not become "absurdly" powerful(it's not like the power increases as HP is lower like Reversal).
You might want to pair this with hail support in order to ensure the mon faints after endeavor thanks to hail.

Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 136 SDef / 64 Def / 56 Atk
Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)
- Outrage
- Substitute
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power / HP Fire

Deals with many teams that rely on steel typing or opposing dragons to counter dragons. You can switch in on a lot of stuff (i.e. Starmie) and set up a sub. HP Fire does more damage against Scizor/Ferrothorn whereas Earth Power also allows you to kill Heatran, but keep in mind that Ferro and Scizor are often accompanied by rain and thus earth power gets the preference. This set absolutely wrecks defensive teams. You can opt for a +Spe -Sp.Atk nature and put the attack EVs into speed if you are worried about adamant Breloom as this will give Kyurem-B 240 speed.

Damage calcs:

I don't necessarily think its a better move over Ice Beam, but Kyurem-B gets Glaciate so really no reason to use Icy Wind.

gr8astard said:

I don't necessarily think its a better move over Ice Beam, but Kyurem-B gets Glaciate so really no reason to use Icy Wind.

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really? Are you sure he keeps glaciate after he turns into his black form? I was sure if he has glaciate it's replaced by freeze shock.

It's not a move he can learn by level up, at level up and that's what i know for sure.

and it's not a move listed on showdown, i'll be honest he does not learn glaciate.

Kyurem-B does not learn Glaciate; that is exclusive to Kyurem's base form and is replaced by Freeze Shock / Ice Burn when it changes to Black/White form respectively.

Anyway, has anyone considered a quickstall-like set for Kyurem-B? It doesn't have the greatest defensive movepool, but access to dual screens, phasing, recovery and every weather except Hail might make it a surprisingly efficient support Pokemon. It can easily take advantage of the free switches it naturally causes to set up Reflect or change the weather. And even though you're forgoing its offenses, it's not like Dragon Tail coming off of 376 Attack won't hurt.

victinivcreate1 said:

Ok a new set w/ a twist

Kyurem-B @Focus Sash
Teravolt
Lonely
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
IVs: 0 HP/0 Def/0 SpD
-Endeavor
-Icy Wind
-Fusion Bolt
-Dragon Claw

This set is the lead wrecker and can also dispose of MANY sweepers. It works best against hyper offense, as those types of teams lack pokemon bulky enough to take a hit (unless they run Jirachi, but all sweeper variants of Rachis are 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt).

The idea is to force a switch so Kyu-B can use Icy Wind. Thus breaking sashes, and slowung down foes, so Kyu-B can outspeed. After one Icy Wind, (im pretty sure Icy Wind drops speed by 30%) this variant of Kyu-B can outspeed even max speed Jolteon. Then I can proceed to slaughter with coverage moves. If I get brought down to 1HP (thus the 0 defense IVs), I use Endeavor, a move that becomes so unreasonably powerful, that I slaughter even resists. The cool thing is that no ghost will ever dare directly switch inon Kyu-B, as Gengar fears OHKOs from anymove, and Jelly fears Fusion Bolt.

I know this may not be the best set (it pales compared to DarkBlazrs) but I feel it has some great potential.

This set loathes pokemon that resist FBolt, Dragon Claw, and Endeavor, so it pairs well with Magnezone to eliminate them. It also pairs well with Gothitelle as she can eliminate Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Heatran with the correct moves.

Click to expand...

My problem with this set is that due to Kyurem B's massive bulk, Sash is generally unused because it is so bulky. It is very tough to OHKO consequently and that is one of its most important traits. Focus Sash is best on much less bulky mons so they can use its potential to the max.

victinivcreate1 said:

Ok a new set w/ a twist

Kyurem-B @Focus Sash
Teravolt
Lonely
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
IVs: 0 HP/0 Def/0 SpD
-Endeavor
-Icy Wind
-Fusion Bolt
-Dragon Claw

This set is the lead wrecker and can also dispose of MANY sweepers. It works best against hyper offense, as those types of teams lack pokemon bulky enough to take a hit (unless they run Jirachi, but all sweeper variants of Rachis are 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt).

The idea is to force a switch so Kyu-B can use Icy Wind. Thus breaking sashes, and slowung down foes, so Kyu-B can outspeed. After one Icy Wind, (im pretty sure Icy Wind drops speed by 30%) this variant of Kyu-B can outspeed even max speed Jolteon. Then I can proceed to slaughter with coverage moves. If I get brought down to 1HP (thus the 0 defense IVs), I use Endeavor, a move that becomes so unreasonably powerful, that I slaughter even resists. The cool thing is that no ghost will ever dare directly switch inon Kyu-B, as Gengar fears OHKOs from anymove, and Jelly fears Fusion Bolt.

I know this may not be the best set (it pales compared to DarkBlazrs) but I feel it has some great potential.

This set loathes pokemon that resist FBolt, Dragon Claw, and Endeavor, so it pairs well with Magnezone to eliminate them. It also pairs well with Gothitelle as she can eliminate Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Heatran with the correct moves.

Click to expand...

I think you're confusing Endeavor with Reversal. Endeavor doesn't increase base power as your HP is lowered, it just makes your HP and the opponent's HP the same.

Arcticblast said:

Kyurem-B does not learn Glaciate; that is exclusive to Kyurem's base form and is replaced by Freeze Shock / Ice Burn when it changes to Black/White form respectively.

Anyway, has anyone considered a quickstall-like set for Kyurem-B? It doesn't have the greatest defensive movepool, but access to dual screens, phasing, recovery and every weather except Hail might make it a surprisingly efficient support Pokemon. It can easily take advantage of the free switches it naturally causes to set up Reflect or change the weather. And even though you're forgoing its offenses, it's not like Dragon Tail coming off of 376 Attack won't hurt.

Click to expand...

What about a set like this?

252 HP, 192 SpDef, 64 Def
Careful Nature
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Dragon Tail
-Hail/Toxic

This set actually makes Kyurem-B quite bulky. Most people expect to see a offensive set(with a 170 atk why would you not?) so this will definitely catch many off guard. I am probably leaning toward Light Clay for the item to help the screens last even longer. Dragon Tail is to phaze. Then, nobody really has an advantage to Hail but since Kyurem-B is immune, it just seems right. Another option I was thinking of was switching Hail with Toxic and possibly making a Toxic-Shuffle set. Ideas?