The Next Best Thing v2 - Latios

[HUARGH]

Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
~ Sleep Talk
~ Superpower
~ Payback
~ Thunder Punch / Ice Punch / Stone Edge


This may seem like a weird set at first, but with sleep's changes in gen 5 this is more viable and deadly than ever. With things such as Breloom and hypnotoed being pretty popular, this Conkeldurr can be a true monster. Switch it into any sleeping move and sleep talk away. The advantage over normal CB Conkeldurr is that it is technically not locked into one move and that it is unpredictable. Additionally, you are often forced to switch out CB users which works to your advantage with this set as it resets the amount of sleeping turns.

Superpower is to ensure the OHKO on many things and would be used over drain punch or hammer arm, although this is mostly a personal preference. Payback is a no-brainer; fighting + dark provides near perfect coverage and hits ghosts for super-effective damage. Thunder punch is the first option as it also hits Jellicent, meaning that you have a 66% of hitting Jellicent for major damage as opposed to 33% with ice punch instead of t-punch. Ice Punch can nab an OHKO against things like Landorus-T and give you more chance of killing defensive Celebi whereas Stone Edge is an inbetween option, but the 80% accuracy is a bitch.

Your opponent cannot outpredict you as there is nothing to outpredict; you are going to hit his switch-in with any of 3 moves off 936 base power and superpower hits everything extremely hard thanks to 180 power after STAB.

 

[vyomov]

This is a set I like:

Conkeldurr@Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpD/252 Atk/4 Def
Nature: Brave
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch
- Smack Down/Ice Punch
- Earthquake
This set, although a little gimmicky, works because most people DON't want to spam statuses seeing Conkeldurr(as Guts is the standard) and thus this works to advantage. Smack Down helps hit Flying Types hard, and can be a great partner to work with Earthquake, hitting Zapdos hard.
This set is a generic coverage set. The 252 SpD EVs are so that it isn't a complete Special loss.
Please comment so that I can improve the set.

 

[Lavos]

Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- ThunderPunch / Rock Slide
- Mach Punch

this is a set i use a lot that's better than the standard bulk up for a couple reasons. first, bulk up takes a turn to set up, which is crucial in this day and age - and oftentimes you don't have enough time, or simply cannot set it up. bulk up is also a waste of a moveslot in that scenario, preventing you from running an extra coverage move which could mean the difference between a win and a loss. enter all-out attacking conkeldurr. it has all the coverage it needs and then some. with sheer force, ice punch and thunderpunch are boosted in power and when using these two moves, conkeldurr doesn't take life orb recoil, which is extremely handy in a pinch. ice punch is excellent coverage for the common lando-t and gliscor switch-ins, and also hits dragons for se damage, which is rare. tpunch hits stuff like jellicent and starmie that would otherwise check conkeldurr, and scares off any gyarados trying to get cheeky. rock slide is an alternative if you don't feel like being setup bait for volcarona. drain punch hits as hard as it always has coming off conk's massive base 140 attack, and gives it the survivability it needs to sustain a few hits. the last moveslot is somewhat of a toss-up: mach punch is generally the preferred option, as it allows you to pick off pokemon sitting at low hp, but payback is also a possibility for hitting gengar and jellicent harder. i opted to only list mach punch here since it's what i use, but i'm making sure the public knows that there is an alternative. regardless of what you choose to run, all-out attacking conkeldurr is a massive threat that every team should be prepared for, but few actually are, which is exactly what makes it so deadly.
p.s. the other all-out attacker set posted before me sucks, fire punch and thunderpunch on conk are basically useless.

edit: thanks for your support gary

 

[Gary]

It sucks that a LOT of people tend to ignore how well Conk can abuse Sheer Force. People fail to realize that all of Conk's punching attacks bar Mach Punch when boosted my Sheer Force are actually more powerful then when boosted by Iron Fist. Rock Slide hits harder then Stone Edge, and Ice Punch is pretty much a physical variant of Ice Beam when boosted by Sheer Force. I'm actually surprised that Conk doesn't have a Sheer Force All-Out-Attacking set in its analysis. It's so good. No one expects an all out offensive Conkeldurr, and they always try to predict that Bulk Up, but instead get a LO Sheer Force boosted Ice Punch or Rock Slide to the face. Drain Punch pairs up really well with Life Orb and Conk's overall great bulk. Although Mach Punch has its uses, it's significantly weaker on non Iron Fist sets. I've always found Payback to be very useful against opposing Jellicent and Gengar switch ins, while also KOing Starmie on the switch. It is indeed a toss up, but Mach Punch and Payback both have a lot of uses. I'm really happy you posted this set Lavos. People need to know more about this amazing set.

 

[Wizarus]

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 48 SDef / 208 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Facade
- ThunderPunch

This is a variation of the Status Orb set; it sacrifices some bulk in order to do better against walls and slow attackers. 208 Speed outpaces uninvested 70s and below. Thunder Punch 2HKOs Skarmory after rocks, something Drain Punch can't do. It also hits Jellicent hard; Bold versions are 2HKO, while Calm versions are OHKO'd after rocks. Gengar is OHKO'd by ThunderPunch 62% of the time after rocks, and Jellicent and Gengar are the only ghosts in OU. Gyarados trying to intimidate you is annihilated. And Facade still destroys most pokes that payback would have anyway.

 

[alexwolf]

the latter is stronger than stone edge w/this ability

Actually Sheer Force Rock Slide has 97.5% BP, so its still weaker than Stone Edge. Just sayin.

@Wizarus

Flame Orb Conk is outclassed by Iron Fist + LO Conk. A statused Guts Conk gets a 50% power boost while an Iron Fist + LO Conk gets a 56% power boost on all its puncing moves (which is its entire moveset if you run Drain Punch + Ice Punch + Thunderpunch + Mach Punch) and only loses 10% life each time it attacks. The only thing this set has over the other is status immunity, which is something i guess...

 

[ClubbingSealCub]

Actually Sheer Force Rock Slide has 97.5% BP, so its still weaker than Stone Edge. Just sayin.

except not really because Stone Edge will miss.

10% acc for 2,5 BP is a great trade

 

[alexwolf]

except not really because Stone Edge will miss.

10% acc for 2,5 BP is a great trade

I didn't say the opposite, i just mentioned that Sheer Force boosted Rock Slide is weaker than Stone Edge because Lavos said that it is stronger.

PS: Oh yeah you are right, i completely forgot about Facade...

 

[Wizarus]

Actually Sheer Force Rock Slide has 97.5% BP, so its still weaker than Stone Edge. Just sayin.

@Wizarus

Flame Orb Conk is outclassed by Iron Fist + LO Conk. A statused Guts Conk gets a 50% power boost while an Iron Fist + LO Conk gets a 56% power boost on all its puncing moves (which is its entire moveset if you run Drain Punch + Ice Punch + Thunderpunch + Mach Punch) and only loses 10% life each time it attacks. The only thing this set has over the other is status immunity, which is something i guess...

That depends on how you look at it. Status Immunity is still important, but the main reason you use Status Orb is for Facade. Because of its great neutral coverage, it lets you hit a majority of targets with 2 moves instead of 3 you would need with the Iron Fist set. Basically you don't have to predict as much as the Iron Fist set.

 

[Lavos]

heh yeah alexwolf you're right...i accidentally multiplied 75 by 1.5 instead of just 1.3 and that's where my calculations went awry. still, though (and i know you're not contradicting this) a power drop of 2.5 base is negligible when compared to the 10% accuracy boost that rock slide brings. definitely worth it, but i'll edit my op to resolve the mathematical dispute.

the flame orb set is cute except it sacrifices conkeldurr's decent survivability for a little extra power, something i've never been a fan of. also, the ev spread is disappointing: conkeldurr should never be given so much speed investment, as it's a waste of precious evs that are better off being used on its shaky sdef or hp. the conk that wizarus posted is ohko'd by keldeo's rain-boosted surf, which is kind of pitiful since that's one of the main things conk will have to stare down, especially if it wants to do anything with thunderpunch. also, it can't touch landorus-t and gliscor; the former can 2hko conk easily with uninvested earthquake, and the latter's subprotect set can just stall out conk due to flame orb taking 1/8th health every turn. it's original, but not very effective.

 

[Wizarus]

Conkeldurr has no business staying in on a rain boosted Keldeo, regardless of the set. Landorus-T risks being 2HKO'd by Facade on the switch after rocks, and unless you hit Gliscor with Ice Punch on the switch, Gliscor will be stalling Conkeldurr out regardless.

The whole point of Status Orb is to wall break; if walls are recovering before you hit them, what's the point of using Status Orb?

 

[superstar]

Lavos, Wizarus's set is useful because it lets you take out Jellicent and Skarmory, who normally beat Conkeldurr.

That being said, I don't see how anyone is going to top Lavos's set, I can't wait to try it out. I think Thunderpunch is the best alternative if you don't go for Mach Punch in the last slot, however. Thanks to Sheer Force, it 2HKOs Bold Jellicent, same as Payback, while still killing Gengar. You get the added bonus of killing Gyarados too. Mach Punch is easily the best option, though.

 

[Lavos]

and unless you hit Gliscor with Ice Punch on the switch, Gliscor will be stalling Conkeldurr out regardless.

The whole point of Status Orb is to wall break; if walls are recovering before you hit them, what's the point of using Status Orb?

gliscor actually won't be stalling conk out regardless since unless it's holding a flame orb or is in sand without leftovers then it can continually ice punch as gliscor attempts to sub/protect stall, glisc won't be able to get off a toxic because conk will be spamming ice punch and if pp starts running low you can use drain punch on the protect and try to bait a toxic to slam it with ice punch then if you don't like waiting. what i really don't like about the set you call a "wallbreaker" is that it has little to no means to beat some of the most common physical walls in the game (namely hippowdon, lando-t, and gliscor). lacking ice punch is really detrimental to conkeldurr, the move itself is one of the few reasons conk even sees a moderate amount of usage in today's metagame. not trying to excessively bash on your set, i see how it could work, but if you're going to call it a wallbreaker at least make sure it actually breaks walls, and can do so without dying to its own flame orb...

 

[Wizarus]

gliscor actually won't be stalling conk out regardless since unless it's holding a flame orb or is in sand without leftovers then it can continually ice punch as gliscor attempts to sub/protect stall, glisc won't be able to get off a toxic because conk will be spamming ice punch and if pp starts running low you can use drain punch on the protect and try to bait a toxic to slam it with ice punch then if you don't like waiting. what i really don't like about the set you call a "wallbreaker" is that it has little to no means to beat some of the most common physical walls in the game (namely hippowdon, lando-t, and gliscor). lacking ice punch is really detrimental to conkeldurr, the move itself is one of the few reasons conk even sees a moderate amount of usage in today's metagame. not trying to excessively bash on your set, i see how it could work, but if you're going to call it a wallbreaker at least make sure it actually breaks walls, and can do so without dying to its own flame orb...

Conkeldurr has already lost at that point. If Gliscor subs on the Drain Punch, you're screwed. This isn't just limited to the Flame Orb set, unless you hit Gliscor on the switch with Ice Punch, it will always force Conk out by LO Recoil, Flame Orb Recoil, or Ice Punch PP stall.

Pivot Landorus-T will lose if it switches in to Facade with SR down, which is spammable because of the neutral coverage it gets in OU, and because Steels and Rocks won't be switching into Conkeldurr. That's the main draw of the Status Orb set. If a layer of Spikes is up, Hippo can't switch into Facade either.

 

[alexwolf]

Btw Lavos, any reason you have Rock Slide over ThunderPunch on your set? T-Punch allows Conkeldurr to beat Jellicent and Starmie much easier, as well as hitting Skarmory on the switch very hard and hitting other bulky Water-types such as Tentacruel and Vaporeon much harder. On the other hand, Rock Slide covers?

 

[Viktor24]

Choice Band Conkeldurr is sick. Though I prefer to run Iron Fist over Guts and Thunder Punch over Stone Edge because Volcarona is the only thing Stone Edge covers while Choice Band Iron Fist Drain Punch deals 58-68% to 4HP Volcarona, OHKO after rocks. Thunder Punch has perfect accuracy and hits likes of Slowbro and Jellicent harder.

 

[Lavos]

Btw Lavos, any reason you have Rock Slide over ThunderPunch on your set? T-Punch allows Conkeldurr to beat Jellicent and Starmie much easier, as well as hitting Skarmory on the switch very hard and hitting other bulky Water-types such as Tentacruel and Vaporeon much harder. On the other hand, Rock Slide covers?

volcarona. i don't particularly enjoy being setup bait, especially for roost volc, which is a huge threat right now that also happens to be grossly underprepared for. thunderpunch is probably better though, so i'm gonna change it. good call, i never really bothered with thunderpunch before because it seemed lame to give grounds a free switch-in but with the addition of ice punch to my set then i guess it works pretty well. physical boltbeam is downright scary

 

[The NU Tuber]

My first post in the OU sub-forums! :)

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 120 HP, 252 Atk, 136 SpD
Adamant Nature
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Drain Punch
-Ice Punch / Payback / Stone Edge

While standard Conkeldurr enjoys being statused thanks to Guts, it does NOT enjoy the negative side-effects that come with it (residual damage, getting fully paralyzed), and he still fears being put sleep. However, RestTalk helps to somewhat mitigate this as he can be statused, enjoy the Guts boost and not fear sleep all at the same time, not to mention he now has a reliable way to fully restore his health in a pinch. This set has an advantage over CB Sleep Talk Conk because you're not royally screwed when you wake up locked into Sleep Talk, and you can control when you wake up as well. Drain Punch is for obvious STAB, and it's good on this set because you can still restore health while you're asleep, and the last slot is down to general coverage: Ice Punch hits Dragons, Gliscor and Lando, Payback hits Ghosts/Psychics, and Stone Edge hits Volcarona.

 

[gengarsnemisis]

Lavos set easily wins this one, his set really does embody the next best thing as I think that set is even better than the outdated bulk-up set (it sux), awesome set. Thunderpunch should really get a slash with rock slide though, as the only thing your not hitting with thunderpunch is volcarano, and thunderpunch is very usefull in beating things like jellicent and other bulky waters.

Also, OHKO'ing dragonite through multiscale is sexy.

 

[Joeyboy]

Voting Period for Conkeldurr starts now, here are links to each set you can vote for:

• Alexander.
• Dr Ciel
• GottaLoveMeloetta
• HUARGH
• vyomov
• Lavos Spawn
• Wizarus
• Dat Blast

For voting, just put the username of the person you wish to vote for in bold and if you want to really show your stuff, a short 1 or 2 sentence explanation for why you chose that set. Voting will be open for 2-ish days! Feel free to VM or PM me any suggestions for the next test subject if you have any.

 

[phantom]

Lavos Spawn

 

[Mylo Xyloto]

Lavos Spawn

 

[Prinz]

Lavos Spawn

 

[alexwolf]

Lavos Spawn

 

[Groudon ex]

Lavos Spawn