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Counter This Pokemon [ginganinja vs TEMP V1]
- Thread starter Nix_Hex
- Start date
Metal Coat boosts the power of Steel type moves by 20%(?) not sure on the percent number, but it does boost the power of Steel type moves.
Another thing I've noticed is that Latios can just freely drop nukes (AKA DMs) on Meloetta and Thundurus-T if Team 2 goes more offensive in dealing with Thundurus-T. I'll probably think up of something tomorrow.
Another thing I've noticed is that Latios can just freely drop nukes (AKA DMs) on Meloetta and Thundurus-T if Team 2 goes more offensive in dealing with Thundurus-T. I'll probably think up of something tomorrow.
20%, yes. And the threat of that sort of thing is why a number of us want to add a Steel-type, i.e. SubCM Jirachi, some Scizor variant, the Lucario I mentioned, etc.
Yeah the one problem I have with Scizor, (I stated it before but w/e), is that its currently useless against Celebi and Heatran. Both have access to fire attacks that roast Scizor, and stall our momentum. For this reason, I prefer Genosect, since it can at least outspeed Celebi, and nail it with a U-Turn. Heck, it can even run Choice Band if you are really worried about the team looking too special focused.
EDIT
My Current Favs are Genosect / Lucario / Heracross / Hydreigon / Mamoswine
EDIT
My Current Favs are Genosect / Lucario / Heracross / Hydreigon / Mamoswine
-Genesect: Entirely possible, it's certainly a fine choice right now. I assume we'd be going with the usual Scarf set?
-Lucario: I posted the case for it earlier.
-Heracross: What kind of set did you have in mind?
-Hydreigon: Could be good...while it's a special attacker like Thundy, they do seem quite different. Again, what set did you have in mind?
-Mamoswine: While I like Mamoswine in general, it's not exceptional against their team as it stands. (Ice Shard does 52-63% with a LO, and Giga Drain murders Mamo in return) It does deter them from picking dragons, but they can play around it to a certain extent.
I'm not sure about another set up sweeper, the team might be too slow.
The ditto threat must not be underestimated.
We still don't have a fire resist against 2 pokemon with with fire coverage and the offensive two sets presented (lucario ad scizor) add a fire weakness.
I would also like to point out that unless we pick a heatran, we'll need to yet another fire weakness to tank draco meteors/outrages.
And here comes rain. But team 2 can just go tornadus/kingdra or even ludicolo.
The ditto threat must not be underestimated.
We still don't have a fire resist against 2 pokemon with with fire coverage and the offensive two sets presented (lucario ad scizor) add a fire weakness.
I would also like to point out that unless we pick a heatran, we'll need to yet another fire weakness to tank draco meteors/outrages.
And here comes rain. But team 2 can just go tornadus/kingdra or even ludicolo.
Yea Scarf Genosect was my primary favourite although I get what you said about it being special focused. CB or even Expert Belt I think are other good Genosect sets that could work, I do prefer Scarf tho.
Heracross I was thinking Scarf. I ran into it on the ladder, and its fairly annoying when threatening that Moxie sweep, however I (again) like Genosect better for a scarf mon.
Hydreigon again would be nice as a scarf mon, although I would actually rather run mixed with Draco Meteor | Superpower | Roost | Fire Blast / Surf (depending on Rain | The set isn't bad, and it can hit special walls on either side of the attacking spectrum, opening them up for a Thundurus-T (or Meloetta) sweep.
Lol calm down. Sure, we don't have a fire resist, but we don't have a fire weakness yet either. Its also not like Heatran is actually threatening us at the moment, if it becomes a problem then we will fix it.
Kingdra / Ludicolo I don't really care about. Team 2 is fully aware that Rain is very tempting for Team 1 to use, but if they use Kingdra, then they have to use a shitty mon thats pretty useless w/o rain, while WE get to pick basically anything we like. We do get the final pick (iirc) so we always have the option of Politoed being a last member, and its difficult for Team 2 to stop us, without handicapping there team.
While there is the issue with being specially focused, I think Genesect would be pulling its weight enough by spamming +1 U-turns. We'd just need to keep it in mind for later picks.
See the comments upthread about being hesitant to pick a dedicated Scarfer/revenge killer so early. Genesect has resilience and keeps momentum with U-turn, so I think it's fine, but I'd say pass on Heracross for now.
Mixed Hydreigon's an interesting idea. The defensive synergy it has isn't great, but we can fix that later.
My suggestion will probably differ heavily from what I've seen till now, but I still think it has a fair share of merits, so...
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Roar
Vaporeon has excellent synergy with Team 1 on multiple levels. First, it provides Wish support, which is invaluable with already two pokemons that use Life Orb. Second, it has quite a good synergy with our picks, luring Electric- and Grass-type attacks, that can be used by Thundurus as a free set-up occasion. It also resists Ice, which is quite good since it's probably the main threat to Thundurus. Unfortunately it doesn't resist Rock, but we can fix that with the rest of our team. It's also good to have a Fire-resist, since I guess we want to pick a Steel sooner or later, and having said resist allows us to be less reliant on Rain. Third point, it provides a failproof way to sponge powerful Water-type attacks that would otherwise cause a whole lot of problems to our team (as previously pointed out, SpD Jirachi cannot handle that kind of attacks reliably). And, as last point, it fits nicely in our "mindgame" aimed at Team 2, since Water Absorb can work outside Rain but it's even more valuable into Rain.
Furthermore, Vaporeon can easily shut down CM Latias, that could create a good amount of problems, by just switching in, Wishing and Roaring Latias out whatever it does (Latias can 3HKO at best at +1, and 2HKO at best at +2). Also, Vaporeon can easily take those Ice Shards aimed to our genie from the obvious Mamoswine (come on, who didn't use one of those to counter Thundurus/Tornadus...), tank the subsequent Earthquake and OHKO with Scald. It can also lure out Celebi while Wishing, and then switch to Thundurus, healing the hit from Celebi and SR damage (andother thing Mamo would hate, since it cannot OHKO if Thundurus is at full health); Thundurus would be in a perfect occasion to set up NP and start wrecking Team 2. And, lastly, Heatran can't do much (since it doesn't have Toxic, Vaporeon can easily outheal those burns), and it has a chance to be OHKO'd by Scald in Rain, so Vaporeon can handle him with relative ease.
tl;dr version:
- Good utility (Wish/Phazing)
- Good synergy (lures Electric- and Grass- for Thundurus, resists Ice)
- Can sponge Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and Waterfalls
- Works good inside and outside rain
- Checks a good amount of Thundurus' counters
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Nature: Bold
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Roar
Vaporeon has excellent synergy with Team 1 on multiple levels. First, it provides Wish support, which is invaluable with already two pokemons that use Life Orb. Second, it has quite a good synergy with our picks, luring Electric- and Grass-type attacks, that can be used by Thundurus as a free set-up occasion. It also resists Ice, which is quite good since it's probably the main threat to Thundurus. Unfortunately it doesn't resist Rock, but we can fix that with the rest of our team. It's also good to have a Fire-resist, since I guess we want to pick a Steel sooner or later, and having said resist allows us to be less reliant on Rain. Third point, it provides a failproof way to sponge powerful Water-type attacks that would otherwise cause a whole lot of problems to our team (as previously pointed out, SpD Jirachi cannot handle that kind of attacks reliably). And, as last point, it fits nicely in our "mindgame" aimed at Team 2, since Water Absorb can work outside Rain but it's even more valuable into Rain.
Furthermore, Vaporeon can easily shut down CM Latias, that could create a good amount of problems, by just switching in, Wishing and Roaring Latias out whatever it does (Latias can 3HKO at best at +1, and 2HKO at best at +2). Also, Vaporeon can easily take those Ice Shards aimed to our genie from the obvious Mamoswine (come on, who didn't use one of those to counter Thundurus/Tornadus...), tank the subsequent Earthquake and OHKO with Scald. It can also lure out Celebi while Wishing, and then switch to Thundurus, healing the hit from Celebi and SR damage (andother thing Mamo would hate, since it cannot OHKO if Thundurus is at full health); Thundurus would be in a perfect occasion to set up NP and start wrecking Team 2. And, lastly, Heatran can't do much (since it doesn't have Toxic, Vaporeon can easily outheal those burns), and it has a chance to be OHKO'd by Scald in Rain, so Vaporeon can handle him with relative ease.
tl;dr version:
- Good utility (Wish/Phazing)
- Good synergy (lures Electric- and Grass- for Thundurus, resists Ice)
- Can sponge Rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and Waterfalls
- Works good inside and outside rain
- Checks a good amount of Thundurus' counters
Wanted to suggest CB Metagross but noticed Xelacelle was going to submit it later; so I'll sit this one out.
PD: Metagross gets 3HKOed by unboosted HP fire; and 2HKOed after a CM boost.
PD: Metagross gets 3HKOed by unboosted HP fire; and 2HKOed after a CM boost.
Yeah, that was my first thought, but I don't know how much we are allowed to stretch the "no slashes clause" to support our rain mindgame. I mean, Hydration and Wish support are quite different sets...we would need at least 2 slashes to change the first into the second (one for the ability and one for Rest in place of Protect, probably). Changing that much our set just in case we pick DrizzleToed later is kinda unfair towards Team 2, that doesn't know what set to counter. Thus my choice to go Wish Support, since it works regardless of rain but still enjoys if it's up.
You can post CB Metagross and I will find something else to post (or just leave Sharpedo as a testament to my sleep-deprived state)
EDIT: Also, what is with all the people spelling it Xelacelle? (Although then again I thought for the first 9 pages that you were ClubbingSealClub, so I guess I am a hypocrit)
Edit1: Now for the classic Xelacalle string of edits
I like Vaporeon, both as a counter to CM Latias and for its synergy with Thundurus-T. However, I think we're still best off piling on the offensive pressure with offensive Pokemon like Scizor, Metagross and Genesect, despite the fact that Water is probably the best type, synergy wise, to go with Thundurus-T.
Now that I'm feeling less sleep-deprived, I'm thinking Specs Keldeo. Because basically, there isn't much that enjoys taking a Hydro Pump from Modest Specs Keldeo. Especially if its Rain-Boosted. HP Ghost also 2HKOs Latias, while Dragon Pulse is a 3HKO (both unboosted)
Type-wise, Keldeo draws Grass, Electric and Flying type attacks - all of which Thundurus-T resists, and resists the Ice and Rock attacks you might expect to hit Thundurus.
Keldeo also OHKOs Heatrab with Secret Sword and deals heavy damage to Celebi with HP Ghost.
And yes, I know this means more special orientation but there is Secret Sword to hit in the Physical side.
In a rush but I will have a bit of work to do 2morrow so ill miss it if Nixhex wants a ballot today or something.
Genosect @ Choice Scarf
-U-turn
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower / Bug Buzz (depending on Rain)
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Download
nature: Hasty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Pretty basic, but wanted to get this up as explained. Gives us momentum, forces out Celebi and a (possible) Latias, and can U-Turn as Heatran comes in, to get a future partner in safely to force Heatran out and sweep / kill something. Basically, its neat, patches a few holes, and not a bad pick when we are kinda "blind" in what Team #2 will pick next.
Just a couple of points
When using Vaporeon as a "counter" to Latias, remember it flat out loses to CM + Roar, which already threatens us fairly bad.
I really really don't like Keldeo, just because I am fully aware that Latias with CM / Dragon Pulse / Psyshock / Recover would pretty much rape us with Keldeo on the team. Keldeo would lose, Thundurus-T would get outsped and beaten, and Meloetta doesn't win. Im tired so I might have missed something obvious, but thats how I see it, ergo, I don't want Keldeo on the team as yet. I also want something that outspeeds (or just beats) Latias for this team slot, as well as not being shit against Celebi / Heatranin this team slot, as I can forsee it becoming a possible threat down the road and I want to avoid that.
Genosect @ Choice Scarf
-U-turn
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Flamethrower / Bug Buzz (depending on Rain)
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Download
nature: Hasty
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Pretty basic, but wanted to get this up as explained. Gives us momentum, forces out Celebi and a (possible) Latias, and can U-Turn as Heatran comes in, to get a future partner in safely to force Heatran out and sweep / kill something. Basically, its neat, patches a few holes, and not a bad pick when we are kinda "blind" in what Team #2 will pick next.
Just a couple of points
When using Vaporeon as a "counter" to Latias, remember it flat out loses to CM + Roar, which already threatens us fairly bad.
I really really don't like Keldeo, just because I am fully aware that Latias with CM / Dragon Pulse / Psyshock / Recover would pretty much rape us with Keldeo on the team. Keldeo would lose, Thundurus-T would get outsped and beaten, and Meloetta doesn't win. Im tired so I might have missed something obvious, but thats how I see it, ergo, I don't want Keldeo on the team as yet. I also want something that outspeeds (or just beats) Latias for this team slot, as well as not being shit against Celebi / Heatranin this team slot, as I can forsee it becoming a possible threat down the road and I want to avoid that.
Two specially orientated Pokémon, both carrying annoying status; I retract my former post regarding Deoxys-D, move over son, this pink blob is here to ruin their day:
Chansey @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
-Heal Bell
-Wish
-Thunder Wave
-Seismic Toss
Everyone who's played OU knows how f*cking annoying this thing can be. It packs everything a cleric needs. Massive 352 HP Wishes, Heal Bell to remove those annoying Thunder Wave's and all other status, Thunder Wave herself to disrupt their team and slow them down. Seismic Toss was thrown in there for the consistent damage and something to do when inevitable Taunt is thrown her way.
Given EV spread and nature allows her to sponge some physical hits thrown at it, whilst maintaining it's gigantic special bulk. Nothing else to say about it, really.
Having two Life Orb users already, I think Wish support is almost mandatory; and there's nobody that can pass Wishes better than Chansey.
Chansey @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
-Heal Bell
-Wish
-Thunder Wave
-Seismic Toss
Everyone who's played OU knows how f*cking annoying this thing can be. It packs everything a cleric needs. Massive 352 HP Wishes, Heal Bell to remove those annoying Thunder Wave's and all other status, Thunder Wave herself to disrupt their team and slow them down. Seismic Toss was thrown in there for the consistent damage and something to do when inevitable Taunt is thrown her way.
Given EV spread and nature allows her to sponge some physical hits thrown at it, whilst maintaining it's gigantic special bulk. Nothing else to say about it, really.
Having two Life Orb users already, I think Wish support is almost mandatory; and there's nobody that can pass Wishes better than Chansey.
I'm aware of that. But, as I already said, we want a Steel-type anyway on our team, and most of those will easily beat CM + Roar Latias cause of limited coverage and no protection against status. SpD Jirachi paralyzes and fliches to death, 'zong Toxics and spams Gyro Ball, Ferrothorn can do a similar work with Leech Seed or T-Wave, not to mention Scizor and Genesect that outright murder it. Of couse, we can pick Genesect now and delay the Vaporeon pick, but I can't see any advantage in doing so, since CM + Roar is not that hard to handle anyway.
Seeing as we seem to be doing out sets now I'm just going to go with Keldeo. It's a little more serious than my Sharpedo at least (please disregard that set)
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid nature
-Hydro Pump
-Secret Sword
-Hidden Power [Ghost]
-Icy Wind
Keldeo works pretty well with this team type-synergy wise as well as potentially dealing with CM Latias. Keldeo 2HKOs Latias with HP Ghost while Latias 3HKOs with Dragon Pulse.
In terms of types, Keldeo resists Ice and Rock, which are super-effective to Thundurus-T, and Dark and Bug, which are super effective to Meloetta-A (this could prove useful if the opposing Poke outspeeds Meloetta.) Keldeo's weaknesses are Gress, Electric and Flying, all of which Thundurus resists, and Psychic, which is resisted by Meloetta-A again.
Keldeo also OHKOs Heatrab with Secret Sword and deals heavy damage to Celebi with HP Ghost, as well as not hitting entirely on the special side (Secret Sword!)
Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid nature
-Hydro Pump
-Secret Sword
-Hidden Power [Ghost]
-Icy Wind
Keldeo works pretty well with this team type-synergy wise as well as potentially dealing with CM Latias. Keldeo 2HKOs Latias with HP Ghost while Latias 3HKOs with Dragon Pulse.
In terms of types, Keldeo resists Ice and Rock, which are super-effective to Thundurus-T, and Dark and Bug, which are super effective to Meloetta-A (this could prove useful if the opposing Poke outspeeds Meloetta.) Keldeo's weaknesses are Gress, Electric and Flying, all of which Thundurus resists, and Psychic, which is resisted by Meloetta-A again.
Keldeo also OHKOs Heatrab with Secret Sword and deals heavy damage to Celebi with HP Ghost, as well as not hitting entirely on the special side (Secret Sword!)
Well, since Xelacalle posted Keldeo, here it is - the manliest super computer that has ever existed.
Metagross @ Choice Band
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Trait: Clear Body
Adamant Nature
~ Meteor Mash
~ Bullet Punch
~ Pursuit
~ Earthquake
Metagross takes pitiful damage from Dragon Pulse and Psyshock / Psychic. To deal with 'Gross, Latias will have to pack HP fire, something that becomes more or less useless if we decide to go for rain (unboosted goes from 3HKO to possible 5HKO). And she's got to drop Roar, too!
Meanwhile; Meteor mash has a 68,75% chance to OHKO after SR; whereas a Pursuit will OHKO Latias while switching out after SR damage. Just like Latias, Celebi takes massive damage from both Meteor Mash (KO 30% of the time after SR) and Pursuit (68,75% after SR and switching). Heatrab gets OHKOed by Earthquake, no warnings, no questions asked, do not pass go, do not collect 200$. If taking out Heatran is critical, Metagross has a chance to kill it while burned.
Metagross also forces Team 2 to pack a powerful defensive wall that resists Meteor Mash. Bulky waters not named Quagsire, Gastrodon and Seismitoad (lol) all get taken out by his lightning-weilding comrades; so their choices are somewhat restricted. Opposing steel-types usually share the same fate as Heatrab, unless they're a can opener with wings, but Jasmine and the Genie can handle that one.
Bullet punch allows Metagross to revenge fast threats on low HP thanks to the priority. His steel typing and mighty defenses let him tank those damned Outrages / Draco Meteors, alleviating our defensive necessities. On top of that, Metagross either resists or takes neutral damage from all priority attacks, which is a plus (but it's not like anyone needs priority attacks to revenge that 70 base speed).
Synergy-wise; Metagross takes ice and rock attacks for Thundy-T, while Thundy has 0 problem switching into ground attacks. He also takes neutral damage from bug, dark, fighting, resists flying and quad-resists psychic for Meloetta; and Meloetta's high special defense allow her to take the special attacks that will be aimed at Metagross' lower special defense.
Trick is also a possible option to cripple opposing walls; but I feel priority and coverage are more important for this team so far since Meloetta and Thundurs-T are pretty powerful wallbreakers already. Ice Punch is an option to nail dragons; but 2x effective Ice Punch deals equal damage to neutral Meteor Mash so NYAH.
Edit, status'n'such - Can't actually come in on Heatran because of Will-o-Wisp / Lava Plume. Metagross doesn't care about onion head's paralysis except for the hax, since outspeeding Ferrothorn isn't one of his main selling points anyway. Latias is his #1 bitch unless she carries HP fire, but then she can't stop Thundurus.
Edit 2, teammates - Metagross loves SR on the field, spikes off his side and paralysis support.
Metagross is totally not my favorite Pokémon, I swear.
Pic related:
Metagross @ Choice Band
252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Trait: Clear Body
Adamant Nature
~ Meteor Mash
~ Bullet Punch
~ Pursuit
~ Earthquake
Metagross takes pitiful damage from Dragon Pulse and Psyshock / Psychic. To deal with 'Gross, Latias will have to pack HP fire, something that becomes more or less useless if we decide to go for rain (unboosted goes from 3HKO to possible 5HKO). And she's got to drop Roar, too!
Meanwhile; Meteor mash has a 68,75% chance to OHKO after SR; whereas a Pursuit will OHKO Latias while switching out after SR damage. Just like Latias, Celebi takes massive damage from both Meteor Mash (KO 30% of the time after SR) and Pursuit (68,75% after SR and switching). Heatrab gets OHKOed by Earthquake, no warnings, no questions asked, do not pass go, do not collect 200$. If taking out Heatran is critical, Metagross has a chance to kill it while burned.
Metagross also forces Team 2 to pack a powerful defensive wall that resists Meteor Mash. Bulky waters not named Quagsire, Gastrodon and Seismitoad (lol) all get taken out by his lightning-weilding comrades; so their choices are somewhat restricted. Opposing steel-types usually share the same fate as Heatrab, unless they're a can opener with wings, but Jasmine and the Genie can handle that one.
Bullet punch allows Metagross to revenge fast threats on low HP thanks to the priority. His steel typing and mighty defenses let him tank those damned Outrages / Draco Meteors, alleviating our defensive necessities. On top of that, Metagross either resists or takes neutral damage from all priority attacks, which is a plus (but it's not like anyone needs priority attacks to revenge that 70 base speed).
Synergy-wise; Metagross takes ice and rock attacks for Thundy-T, while Thundy has 0 problem switching into ground attacks. He also takes neutral damage from bug, dark, fighting, resists flying and quad-resists psychic for Meloetta; and Meloetta's high special defense allow her to take the special attacks that will be aimed at Metagross' lower special defense.
Trick is also a possible option to cripple opposing walls; but I feel priority and coverage are more important for this team so far since Meloetta and Thundurs-T are pretty powerful wallbreakers already. Ice Punch is an option to nail dragons; but 2x effective Ice Punch deals equal damage to neutral Meteor Mash so NYAH.
Edit, status'n'such - Can't actually come in on Heatran because of Will-o-Wisp / Lava Plume. Metagross doesn't care about onion head's paralysis except for the hax, since outspeeding Ferrothorn isn't one of his main selling points anyway. Latias is his #1 bitch unless she carries HP fire, but then she can't stop Thundurus.
Edit 2, teammates - Metagross loves SR on the field, spikes off his side and paralysis support.
Metagross is totally not my favorite Pokémon, I swear.
Pic related:
Well, Latias is faster, thus Keldeo has only one opportunity to hit her before fainting, and since it cannot OHKO it's quite poor as a counter. Not to mention if Latias gets a CM up on the switch: in that case HP Ghost deals 44% max, and Latias can just start to set up Calm Minds on Keldeo.
Also, I don't like the fact that it's Modest, being outsped by positive base 100 is not really looking good...
lol Clubbing, you just got my vote xD
seeing as I missed a lot of discussion, I'll add my input:
my favorites are:
Metagross- and not just because of the comedic factor. It has very useful priority, the ability to trap, hit hard, and just shit on the opponent in general. I like it especially because of it's flexibility- it can be a revenger, a pivot, a tank, and a sweeper. All-in-one machine. Just shut down by WoW.
Genesect- good choice, can hit Latias hard and act as an offensive pivot. Also, we fear CM Roar Latias, which rarely carries HP Fire (CM / Roar / Dragon Pulse / Recover is what I see most of the time) It doesn't even care about Heatrab. Can not be paralyzed.
Mamoswine- prevents Team 1 from bringing in any more Therians/Dragons to the table. A strong physical attacker with again, strong priority. Still, not as versatile as Gross or Sect. Also weak to strong fighting types; though Thundurus can take hits, somewhat. Cannot be burned.
Chansey/Vaporeon/Keldeo- Chansey is weak to Keldeo; Vaporeon doesn't counter Latias well; Keldeo is also kind of weak to Latias. None of them want to be burned/paralyzed.
Scizor/Lucario- there's nothing stopping Team 2 from using HP Fire on Latias. Magnezone traps Scizor too; you're pretty much forcing them to use a Rain team ^^ Shut down by Wow, though you're not switching in on Heatran anyway
Espeon/Xatu- sorry, a bit too one dimensional- can't do much but set screens and reflect status, and Celebi/Heatran dgaf their statuses
REMEMBER TO FACTOR IN STATUS
Things that you'd want to switch into Heatran have to be able to take a burn!
seeing as I missed a lot of discussion, I'll add my input:
my favorites are:
Metagross- and not just because of the comedic factor. It has very useful priority, the ability to trap, hit hard, and just shit on the opponent in general. I like it especially because of it's flexibility- it can be a revenger, a pivot, a tank, and a sweeper. All-in-one machine. Just shut down by WoW.
Genesect- good choice, can hit Latias hard and act as an offensive pivot. Also, we fear CM Roar Latias, which rarely carries HP Fire (CM / Roar / Dragon Pulse / Recover is what I see most of the time) It doesn't even care about Heatrab. Can not be paralyzed.
Mamoswine- prevents Team 1 from bringing in any more Therians/Dragons to the table. A strong physical attacker with again, strong priority. Still, not as versatile as Gross or Sect. Also weak to strong fighting types; though Thundurus can take hits, somewhat. Cannot be burned.
Chansey/Vaporeon/Keldeo- Chansey is weak to Keldeo; Vaporeon doesn't counter Latias well; Keldeo is also kind of weak to Latias. None of them want to be burned/paralyzed.
Scizor/Lucario- there's nothing stopping Team 2 from using HP Fire on Latias. Magnezone traps Scizor too; you're pretty much forcing them to use a Rain team ^^ Shut down by Wow, though you're not switching in on Heatran anyway
Espeon/Xatu- sorry, a bit too one dimensional- can't do much but set screens and reflect status, and Celebi/Heatran dgaf their statuses
REMEMBER TO FACTOR IN STATUS
Things that you'd want to switch into Heatran have to be able to take a burn!
I was more pointing out that Latias couldn't switch in rather than it being an outright counter. I figured I would put Keldeo in because of the good type synergy it has with our other two Pokemon.
I'm more an advocate of our Pursuit users and Genesect than Keldeo in terms of dealing with Latias. Perhaps I should wait for a different opportunity to suggest it (one where Keldeo is a reliable counter.)
... But I'm not really a fan of this. Right now I'm not convinced either has great synergy with Meloetta or Thundurus, other than to remove Latias. But I may be wrong...
I think this post was going somewhere when I started it :/
Well anyway the nature was basically me just be 50/50, Modest or Timid. Though Timid is probably better for that reason. It would also outspeed neutral nature Latias, I think? (as timid)
Yeah I'll go ahead and change at least that now.
Lol Electrolyte, Chansey and Vaporeon both don't care that much about status, especially burn. Chansey can just switch out to remove it, both have reliable way to heal themselves, and neither rely on physical hits. Of course almost every Pokemon in the game is better status-free than statused, but you pointed out two examples that don't really care. They aren't much fast, either, so a paralysis is not the end of the world.
Also, I'm not really persuaded that countering Latias should be our main goal now, but I guess it's just my fault. It seems to me that there are many other threats and picking something Choiced just to answer those is just asking Team 2 to pick a hard counter for that (they already have SpD Heatran which doesn't care at all about Genesect, basically forcing it to spam U-Turn over and over if it doesn't want a huge loss of momentum). Neither of those Choiced pokemon provides Wish, hazards, or whatever utility, which seems ideal to pick now, since we still know little of Team 2 (this making kinda difficult to choose counters for their not-already-uncovered pokemons), but we know for sure that having a Wish user/SR setter/whatever would be immensely helpful for us.
Sorry for my bad english, I hope the previous paraghraph is not horribly full of grammar errors and somewhat understandable...
Also, I'm not really persuaded that countering Latias should be our main goal now, but I guess it's just my fault. It seems to me that there are many other threats and picking something Choiced just to answer those is just asking Team 2 to pick a hard counter for that (they already have SpD Heatran which doesn't care at all about Genesect, basically forcing it to spam U-Turn over and over if it doesn't want a huge loss of momentum). Neither of those Choiced pokemon provides Wish, hazards, or whatever utility, which seems ideal to pick now, since we still know little of Team 2 (this making kinda difficult to choose counters for their not-already-uncovered pokemons), but we know for sure that having a Wish user/SR setter/whatever would be immensely helpful for us.
Sorry for my bad english, I hope the previous paraghraph is not horribly full of grammar errors and somewhat understandable...
Somewhat risky suggestion but the payoff can be huge:
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Modes Nature
Trait: Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
~Energy Ball
~Hidden Power Ground
Very much appreciates rocks OFF the field. HP Ground is a 2HKO on Heatran if it switches in expecting a Fire Blast or can be switched in to absorb WoW's and Lava Plumes.
Can't switch in on Earth Power without taking 67 - 80% but with appropriate lures you can encourage a fire move from both Heatran and Celebi (gotta do something about that guys....). Heatran may be tempted to stay in but if it has some prior damage (30%+) you may have a chance to KO.
Choice locking into HP ground isn't necessarily a bad thing if you can predict the opponent switching to a levitator or flying type you can switch straight to your counter and gain momentum that way.
Chandelure is all about risk/reward and when it works the reward is huge.
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Modes Nature
Trait: Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
~Energy Ball
~Hidden Power Ground
Very much appreciates rocks OFF the field. HP Ground is a 2HKO on Heatran if it switches in expecting a Fire Blast or can be switched in to absorb WoW's and Lava Plumes.
Can't switch in on Earth Power without taking 67 - 80% but with appropriate lures you can encourage a fire move from both Heatran and Celebi (gotta do something about that guys....). Heatran may be tempted to stay in but if it has some prior damage (30%+) you may have a chance to KO.
Choice locking into HP ground isn't necessarily a bad thing if you can predict the opponent switching to a levitator or flying type you can switch straight to your counter and gain momentum that way.
Chandelure is all about risk/reward and when it works the reward is huge.
Pretty ballin' set - it has the advantage of eating Latias for breakfast too (Shadow ball deals average 50% damage against +1 Latias; forcing her to recover until a -SpDef drop or a crit).
Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
Modes Nature
Trait: Flash Fire
4 HP / 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe
~Fire Blast
~Shadow Ball
~Energy Ball
~Hidden Power Ground
However - there are two main flaws with how Chandy works with the rest of the team so far.
First, it absolutely needs Rapid Spin support, or else Chandy will get demolished by SR.
Second, and probably most important: our team already has 2 powerful special attackers. We still have to pick at least 1 defensive mon, a physical attacker, someone to lay down SR, someone to spin, and possibly Politoed if we go for a rain team. Having 3 mons on the special side severely limits our team building options.