np: UU Stage 8 - I Remember

[kokoloko*]

With the ban on Gothitelle, we should now be able to go back to the familiar early BW2 metagame we all came to love.

Here is the song.

That is all.

[Santuga]

Qwilfish abuse!!!! ktnxbai <3

[ZandgaiaX]

needs more Machamp and especially Porygon2 love...

Will make a more informative post tomorrow..

[Darkhuaza517]

So Goth has been banned? Yay! Does this mean it's going BL now?

[SpecsX]

Originally Posted by Fat Darkhuaza517

So Goth has been banned? Yay! Does this mean it's going BL now?

Ummm... isn't that what always happens when something is banned?
I kinda didn't think Goth should be banned, but whatever =/

[Pocket]

People who say that Goth isn't bad had not faced a T-Wave / Charm / Flash / Light Screen Gothitelle. Pretty much the best support for set-up sweepers. Even the standard Specs Gothitelle was extremely restraining. I'm glad to see it go.

PS: lol no, Flash lowers accuracy, it doesn't increase evasion.

[SpecsX]

Isn't Flash banned by evasion clause?

I believe the clause is something like: "No moves which raise the user's evasion/lower the opponent's accuracy(with no other effects) are banned"
Unless Flash got another effect in Gen 5, it should be banned, correct?

[Heysup]

I'm sort of back and I've been playing around with my initial BW team a lot (just with abilities swapped on Heracross...and Swampert over Donphan) and it's doing great. I still miss Donphan but Swampert is really fucking cool because of Waterfall and Torrent as well as the freedom to use Roar without any real setbacks.

Proslass (:D) + CB Escavalier + Heracross cleaning is what I've been using.

[NATdude]

Didn't see that coming, but I've been out of the loop for UU for a awhile. Was it a quick ban? I didn't even think Shadow Tag Gothitelle was released yet. I'm assuming Chandelure will meet a similar fate if it doesn't get bumped up to OU once it's dream world ability is released.

[Veedrock]

Originally Posted by Fat SpecsX

Isn't Flash banned by evasion clause?

I believe the clause is something like: "No moves which raise the user's evasion/lower the opponent's accuracy(with no other effects) are banned"
Unless Flash got another effect in Gen 5, it should be banned, correct?

Nope.

• Evasion Clause - A Pokemon may not have the moves Double Team or Minimize in its moveset, or hold the items Brightpowder or Lax Incense.

[/B/utterfree]

Originally Posted by Fat NATdude

Didn't see that coming, but I've been out of the loop for UU for a awhile. Was it a quick ban? I didn't even think Shadow Tag Gothitelle was released yet. I'm assuming Chandelure will meet a similar fate if it doesn't get bumped up to OU once it's dream world ability is released.

Gothitelle and Chandelure are two entirely different Pokemon altogether. Chandelure's main niche is similar to Dugtrio's in that it's a good revengekiller while employing Shadow Tag. It otherwise is too reliant on a Choice Scarf to really be broken. Gothitelle was banned because while she used Shadow Tag she also made it easier for lethal sweepers to sweep by removing key counters and checks for them. Chandelure won't be able to do that is it lacks key moves that Gothitelle used, one of them being Trick and the other being Tickle.

[-Manu-]

With the ban of gothi we lose a great support for fighting type but maybe we see another psychic Pokémon like Musharna or Sigilyph. But this doesn't mean less fighting type Pokémon. I think the key for build a good UU team it's how manage this fighting type.

First option it's Offense with Pokémon faster than fighting Pokémon Top Tier like Heracross, Mienshao, Cobalion. So in my opinion Swellow is great choice. Than we note fighting top tier except for Cobalion they aren't bulky, so with power like Kingdra Spec who it's a great Pokémon for wallbreaking we have two Pokémon who manage the possibility to do a lot of dammage to at many team.

The second option it's great staller. For me one possible core who is forget it's Froslass with another ghost but more bulky like Dusknoir/Spiritomb/Sableye/Cofragrigus/Golurk. The choice is made by the need of the team. Spiritomb it's like the most annoying Pokémon for stall team with possibility to trick etc. Sableye it's always a thread for offense and golurk check zapdos for example. With this core we have the best spiker of UU and a great anti-spin and better check for fighting type.

[FlareBlitz]

Originally Posted by Fat /B/utterfree

Gothitelle and Chandelure are two entirely different Pokemon altogether. Chandelure's main niche is similar to Dugtrio's in that it's a good revengekiller while employing Shadow Tag. It otherwise is too reliant on a Choice Scarf to really be broken. Gothitelle was banned because while she used Shadow Tag she also made it easier for lethal sweepers to sweep by removing key counters and checks for them. Chandelure won't be able to do that is it lacks key moves that Gothitelle used, one of them being Trick and the other being Tickle.

Chandelure has Trick. Chandelure is far stronger and faster, with far better offensive and defensive typing. It can do everything that Gothitelle usefully did, and much more. They are two different Pokemon only because Chandelure simply outclasses Gothitelle.

[/B/utterfree]

Originally Posted by Fat FlareBlitz

Chandelure has Trick.

Ah. This I did not know. I genuinely thought it didn't, because most people didn't employ Trick. I take it this was a gift from B2W2? If not, then I guess I should stop being coy and take Shadow Tag Chandelure at least a little seriously.

On the whole, though, I am relieved that Gothitelle was banned. Although it does leave some people in RU/NU wondering if their Suspect Rounds meant absolutely nothing, I am sighing as the tiers are starting to get a little bit more balanced overall.

[superbadd]

So even if RU and NU don't ban goth will it still be BL?

Atm, I don't think anything will be suspect worthy, not until the drop downs happen next month.

[hilarious]

I predict gothorita will make a major impact now on the ladder, specifically the choice specs set if only because i use it and i ladder, a lot.

Goth will not be allowed in RU/NU now because, as far as I know (which is not far really) PS! works as if something is banned from a higher tier it is banned from all tiers below it.

[Espo]

I really don't think Gothorita will get used due to his low special attack, speed and so so bulk. Shadow Tag or not.

[RT.]

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

So even if RU and NU don't ban goth will it still be BL?

Atm, I don't think anything will be suspect worthy, not until the drop downs happen next month.

Yes, pokemon that are banned in UU are also banned in lower tiers.

@Butterfree - Chandelure can remove the same pokemon that Gothitelle did, and as Flareblitz said, it is far stronger, faster, and possesses much better typing.

[jamashawalker]

So how is ditto doing in the UU metagame? Is it overpowering or underwhelming?all i can do is read from the shadows :/

[RT.]

Underwhelming, jak. Ditto performs best against Hyper Offense, but UU is geared more towards Bulky Offense and Wallbreaking, two styles of play that it doesn't handle well at all. Also, apart from Kingdra, there aren't many pokemon it can copy and use the +1 Speed to get a sweep. (If you're using Kingdra, it's not hard to refrain from boosting if you see Ditto on the other team) Most stat boosters in UU utilize Curse, Bulk Up, or Calm Mind. Even Trick Room is becoming more popular now that people are realizing the worth of Cofagrigus, so this metagame definately isn't Ditto-friendly.

[Heysup]

I still will never understand Choice Specs Chandelure. Trick is not worth losing Substitute's versatility and Life Orb's or even Lefties move selection. Sub + 3 Attacks has literally no safe switch in, and Sub + Pain Split is hard to deal with as well, even harder when considering that it heals whenever you switch Snorlax in.

[DestinyUnknown]

@Heysup: Choice Specs Chandelure can beat Snorlax and Porygon2 with a bit of hazards support (it does ~40% to Snorlax with Hidden Power Fighting), so that's why it's used. The other versions can't do this (SubSplit gets outstalled or phazed by Snorlax). I mean, yeah, of course you can use other pokemon to take down Snorlax, but if you need a lure for Swampert / Rhyperior / Snorlax to allow something like Raikou to sweep, Specs Chandelure is pretty good. At least that's why I have used it in the past.

[fatty]

where do you have room for hp fighting? i would always use fb / sball / energy ball / trick, but that's just me. and tbh most people that i see using specs chandy just spam fb anyways. i'm with you heysup, never seen the utility of specs chandy. sub split and chestorest have always been my go-to sets, sub split for the immense power and annoyance factor, and a bulkier chestorest set that can tank minor hits, stay healthy throughout the course of the match, and actually bluff specs / scarf (it also is really useful for taking on roserade).

[Machi]

Originally Posted by Fat fatty

where do you have room for hp fighting? i would always use fb / sball / energy ball / trick, but that's just me. and tbh most people that i see using specs chandy just spam fb anyways. i'm with you heysup, never seen the utility of specs chandy. sub split and chestorest have always been my go-to sets, sub split for the immense power and annoyance factor, and a bulkier chestorest set that can tank minor hits, stay healthy throughout the course of the match, and actually bluff specs / sacarf (it also is really useful for taking on roserade).

HP fighting goes where trick is... And using specs basically allows Lure to muscle through even Lax, given hazard support and if you happen to net a flash fire boost Lax won't like switching in, using Fire Blast. Specs Lure's utility is to nuke mons, generally those slower than it, and destroy defensive cores with not much effort necessary in prediction (since the only things that would attempt to switch in to Specs Lure most of the time are flash fire users that are nailed hard by HP fighting or normal types attempting to predict the incoming Shadow Ball and once they're gone you can easily spam your STABs). Generally, specs lure is a nightmare for slower teams as it can very easily dismantle them.

[cim]

Originally Posted by Fat Heysup

Sub + 3 Attacks has literally no safe switch in, and Sub + Pain Split is hard to deal with as well, even harder when considering that it heals whenever you switch Snorlax in.

This isn't *quite* true. Sub + 3 attacks loses to Snorlax / Pory2, and if you run HP Fighting you can get checked by some bulkier Waters.

IMO specs isn't terribly efficient on Chandelure, since its Fire type means it can't switch in more than a few times, though it does have three immunities.