Some NFEs not talked about much, are they worth considering.

Drakhun

I've seen a great deal of discussion on the legitimacy of certain NFEs in UU, but what about some other NFEs, not realy for UU, but just curious, would some have any place in the teir list.

Eevee - Eevee has a different type and a different ability from all its evolutions. It's movepool is total suck, and it has base stats comperable to farfetched and delibird, but would it be valid for NU?


Dragonaire - Shed skin and doesn't fly. Does that make it different from Dragonite?


Nidorina/rino - lack of ground type changes their STABs and weaknesses. Have unique level up movepools. Does this make them unique from the queen/king?

Shellgon - Higher def than mence, different ability, and doesn't fly.

Pupitar - Shed skin and rock/ground vs rock/dark. Distinct from T-Tar or no?

Surskit - Only water/bug in the game. Bad even for NU stats, but a unique level up movepool from its evo, and swift swim.

Nicada - Bug/ground unlike either form, and compound eyes vs speedboost/wonderguard. Also has base 90 def.
 
Drakhun said:
I've seen a great deal of discussion on the legitimacy of certain NFEs in UU, but what about some other NFEs, not realy for UU, but just curious, would some have any place in the teir list.

Eevee - Eevee has a different type and a different ability from all its evolutions. It's movepool is total suck, and it has base stats comperable to farfetched and delibird, but would it be valid for NU?


Dragonaire - Shed skin and doesn't fly. Does that make it different from Dragonite?


Nidorina/rino - lack of ground type changes their STABs and weaknesses. Have unique level up movepools. Does this make them unique from the queen/king?

Shellgon - Higher def than mence, different ability, and doesn't fly.

Pupitar - Shed skin and rock/ground vs rock/dark. Distinct from T-Tar or no?

Surskit - Only water/bug in the game. Bad even for NU stats, but a unique level up movepool from its evo, and swift swim.

Nicada - Bug/ground unlike either form, and compound eyes vs speedboost/wonderguard. Also has base 90 def.
Click to expand...
eevee - for nu maybe it's ok, but we've got enough outclassed normal types in there already i hardly think it matters either way

dragonair - i really think it's just going to play exactly like dragonite in ou, which means dragon dance + outrage + fire blast for the standard

shellgon - actually does have some merit, with wish he can be quite an effective tank capable of lots of damage. dragon claw/wish/protect/something could be an effective moveset.

pupitar - the only thing it's got going over golem in uu is the ability to dragon dance... i think that's too much like tyranitar but i'm not sure. i don't think anyone's going to use it when they can rock polish golem though.

surskit - why bother with it when nobody's going to use it?

nincada - decent defense and typing but nobody's going to use it as it can't do damage outside of toxic
 
Drakhun said:
I've seen a great deal of discussion on the legitimacy of certain NFEs in UU, but what about some other NFEs, not realy for UU, but just curious, would some have any place in the teir list.

Eevee - Eevee has a different type and a different ability from all its evolutions. It's movepool is total suck, and it has base stats comperable to farfetched and delibird, but would it be valid for NU?

Endure/Salac and Adaptablility Flail- 400 power move. Let's see Flareon or Leafeon pull THAT one off. I've actually used an Eevee like that against my brother (and he's good), and it did great.

Dragonaire - Shed skin and doesn't fly. Does that make it different from Dragonite?

Lacking the all-too-common 4x Ice weakness is always good to me. Throw in Dragon Dance, and you got something there.

Nidorina/rino - lack of ground type changes their STABs and weaknesses. Have unique level up movepools. Does this make them unique from the queen/king?

Sadly, they lack the stats to do much with their different types and moves.

Shellgon - Higher def than mence, different ability, and doesn't fly.

DD/Crunch/Dragon Claw/Double-Edge. Has the defense to set up DD, and Rock Head means no recoil from Double Edge. Plus, no x4 Ice weakness.

Pupitar - Shed skin and rock/ground vs rock/dark. Distinct from T-Tar or no?

Yes. I myself use a DD Pupitar with EQ, Rock Slide (I never rely on the poorer accuracy of Stone Edge), and Crunch. Lack's T-Tar's x4 Fighting weakness, and can come in on electric attacks.

Surskit - Only water/bug in the game. Bad even for NU stats, but a unique level up movepool from its evo, and swift swim.

In certain situations. Rain Dance team with Choice Specs. Modest gets 458 speed in the rain, and w/ CSpecs, 327 Sp. Atk. Use with Signal Beam, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball. Might work in certain situations.

Nicada - Bug/ground unlike either form, and compound eyes vs speedboost/wonderguard. Also has base 90 def.
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Compoundeyes wouldn't help that much, except for Toxic, Fury Swipes, and Metal Claw. I COULD see it as a physical wall of sorts. Toxic/Harden/Swagger/X-Scissor, maybe.
 
Double-Edge, like Obi mentioned in another thread, when I put up my Shelgon moveset, is a very bad idea on him. STAB Dragon Claw has the exact same power as Double-Edge and Dragon Claw is better in every way due to Normal/Dragon having the same resistances (Dragon is neutral against rock though), and Dragon is at least super-effective on something. Dragon Dancing with him is not a good idea considering the 50 base speed.

Wishing is the best it can do, but it does do that very well thanks to a very defensive typing in mono-dragon and great defense. There's no advantages with Rock Head, take advantage of the 20 higher base defense and better typing if you want to use Shelgon, since that's its true merit.
 
No.

Oh sorry, I didn't realize tha you actually made vaild points. Eevee, Trapinch, etc. should be allowed. I'm not sure about Dragonair/Shelgon and stuff; just because he has slightly different stats doesn't give us the right to turn UU into OU lite. Feel free to run it though.

Here's a rule of thumb I usually uphold: An NFE's in the same tier as its parent unless its name is Phione (which isn't really an NFE).

Oh, Shellgon can't wish, right? They only gave out fully-evo'd Salamences with Wish
 
Chris is me said:
No.


Here's a rule of thumb I usually uphold: An NFE's in the same tier as its parent unless its name is Phione (which isn't really an NFE).
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Well, it depends. Trapinch is definately not in the same tier, and yet it's different. Vigoroth, PIKACHU, scyther.

And if you use that, what about eevee? Does it belong to several other tiers at once? It's OU because it's a pre-evo of jolt, BL because it's a pre-evo of espeon/umbreon among others.

Anyways, with the above list, i'll agree with dragonair, shellgon, eevee. Maybe pupitar. The rest, no.
 
As much as I enjoy the appearance of Dragonair losing his 4x weakness to Ice is not that great considering he's losing over 30 base stats in both defenses and has two thirds the HPs he'd have has Dragonite.

But shed skin is great.. it's a shame Dragonite doesn't retain it.
 
Cacnea(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature (+Atk/+Sp.Atk.)
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
- Destiny Bond
- Poison Jab/Faint Attack

DB Cacnea. Should your opponent know what's coming and refuse to attack Cacnea, use SD and try to sweep. Worked for me on Shoddy once.

Krabby(♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def./6 HP
Brave Nature (+Atk/+Spd)
- Crabhammer
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Brick Break

Use this thing on a trickroom team. Its attack stat's surprisingly good (67th highest of all Pokemon!). Better than Ambipom and Tauros, equal to Feraligatr, Aerodactyl, Primeape, and Muk. With this low speed, Krabby could be considered the Aerodactyl of Trick Room.

Elekid(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd/-Sp.Atk.)
- Meditate
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

317 speed, and after 1 Meditate, 338 Attack. Not too shabby for sweeping. If you didn't get attacked on using Meditate, do it again for more power. Best if Ninjask can BP it some speed and a sub.
 
Missingno. Master said:
Cacnea(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature (+Atk/+Sp.Atk.)
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
- Destiny Bond
- Poison Jab/Faint Attack

DB Cacnea. Should your opponent know what's coming and refuse to attack Cacnea, use SD and try to sweep.

Krabby(♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def./6 HP
Brave Nature (+Atk/+Spd)
- Crabhammer
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Brick Break

Use this thing on a trickroom team. Its attack stat's surprisingly good. Better than Ambipom and Tauros, equal to Feraligatr, Aerodactyl, and Muk. With this low speed, Krabby could be considered the Aerodactyl of Trick Room.
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Hi, my name is Cacturne. I do everything your Cacnea set does, but I have more attack, and STAB Sucker Punch.

Hi, my name is Rhyperior. I'm slower than Krabby, have way more attack, and a better trick than Crabhammer.

Or: Hi, my name is Crawdaunt. I am only slightly faster than Krabby, have more attack, and STAB Crunch to boot. I also have Superpower instead of Brick Break.

There are next to zero NFE's that are in any way useful over some other pokemon that does what they do better.

We had a whole topic about it.
 
Dugtrio > Trapinch unless Trick Room is in play. I prefer 110 more base speed over 20 more Attack on an Arena Trapper with attacking versatility.

Also Deck Knight cut down the goddamn attitude.
 
Yeah, Pikachu's one of the meanest Encorers in the game. 90 base speed Encoring is really fast.

Honestly, I've screwed over many things with mine. Just Protect first turn, then if they used a dangerous move, switch. If they used a support move, Encore it, and switch over to something that can kill the opposing pokemon, or just let Pikachu do it himself. Works great as a lead to pick off those annoying Swamperts that use Stealth Rock. They get their ass kicked by Grass Knot. Also kills Bronzong leads if they make the wrong move of not using Hypnosis first.

Raichu's actually better at the Encoring role, but Pikachu can do a lot more damage with it.
 
Magneton hasn't been mentioned much. He's faster than Magnezone. I don't know if it's worth counting him on the tier lists just for that, but making him BL would solve all the 'Magneton being used in UU' problems.
 
Numel(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature (+Atk/-Spd)
- Howl
- Rock Slide
- EQ
- Return

Howl=SD under Simple. Run in a Trick Room team and let the sweepage commence. Let's see Camerupt pull THIS off.

Anorith(♂) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk/-Sp.Atk)
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Cross Poison
- Brick Break

CSAnorith. It's actually faster than Armaldo, and still has a decent attack stat, so this is entirely viable. Or run it with a Choice Band (Heck, or even a Muscle Band- still boosts Attack and doesn't limit you to one move) and BP some extra speed to it.

Munchlax(♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk/200 Sp.Def/58 HP
Brave Nature (+Atk/-Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Return
- Zen Headbutt

CB Munchlax. With base 85 Attack, it could actually pull this off. Nothing outspeeds this in Trick Room (tied with Shuckle for lowest speed EVAH!). And it can take special hits somewhat. CB's effect of locking Lax into one move won't hurt so much, as you'll probably be switching it out to set up Trick Room again. That, or it gets KOed.
 
Wynaut's defensive stats are crap and pretty much force you to predict well to get a kill with it. It usually cannot survive two strong hits (Encore turn + Counter/MC turn).
 
This isn't going to be UU by any means, but Mofro's Dusclops version of Pesknoir might come in handy...

Dusclops @ Lum Berry
252 HP/106 Def/144 SpDef
0 Spd IVs
Relaxed Nature
-Taunt
-Trick Room
-Nightshade/Focus Punch/Pain Split
-Destiny Bond/Memento

It beats out Snorlax and Spiritomb, which Pesknoir can't easily; the lessened speed perhaps compensates for the slight decrease of HP/defences. Evs to survive SpecsMence, IVs for Trick Room usage, and Memento just because I like that move as a signature WTF move...
 
Missingno. Master said:
Cacnea(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature (+Atk/+Sp.Atk.)
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
- Destiny Bond
- Poison Jab/Faint Attack

How is this better than Cacturne?

Krabby(♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def./6 HP
Brave Nature (+Atk/+Spd)
- Crabhammer
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Brick Break

How is this better than Kingler / Crawdaunt?

Elekid(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd/-Sp.Atk.)
- Meditate
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

How is this better than Electabuzz?
Click to expand...

hp [leaves] said:
Also Wyanut.

How is this better than Wobbuffet?
Click to expand...

Missingno. Master said:
Numel(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature (+Atk/-Spd)
- Howl
- Rock Slide
- EQ
- Return

How is this better than Camerupt? Thanks to Numel's piteous base Attack, Camerupt still has more Attack after a Howl than Simple Numel.

Anorith(♂) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk/-Sp.Atk)
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Cross Poison
- Brick Break

Ah, finally something that has some marginal benefit over Armaldo!

Munchlax(♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk/200 Sp.Def/58 HP
Brave Nature (+Atk/-Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Return
- Zen Headbutt

How is this better than Snorlax?
Click to expand...

Sylver said:
This isn't going to be UU by any means, but Mofro's Dusclops version of Pesknoir might come in handy...

Dusclops @ Lum Berry
252 HP/106 Def/144 SpDef
0 Spd IVs
Relaxed Nature
-Taunt
-Trick Room
-Nightshade/Focus Punch/Pain Split
-Destiny Bond/Memento

How is this better than Dusknoir? Come on, at least use Duskull so you can claim Levitate.
Click to expand...





Also what's this about unique level up movepools? Can't you just wait until the Pokemon reaches level 99 and then evolve it as it turns 100?
 
Obi said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Missingno. Master
Cacnea(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature (+Atk/+Sp.Atk.)
- Seed Bomb
- Swords Dance
- Destiny Bond
- Poison Jab/Faint Attack

How is this better than Cacturne?
Got me there. But it can still be done.

Krabby(♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Def./6 HP
Brave Nature (+Atk/+Spd)
- Crabhammer
- Rock Slide
- X-Scissor
- Brick Break

How is this better than Kingler / Crawdaunt?
Outspeeds more in Trick Room

Elekid(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd/-Sp.Atk.)
- Meditate
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

How is this better than Electabuzz?
Never said it was better, just said it could be done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Missingno. Master
Numel(♂) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk
Brave Nature (+Atk/-Spd)
- Howl
- Rock Slide
- EQ
- Return

How is this better than Camerupt? Thanks to Numel's piteous base Attack, Camerupt still has more Attack after a Howl than Simple Numel.
Element of surprise. Besides, isn't Camerupt used for its Special Attack?

Anorith(♂) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Speed
Adamant Nature (+Atk/-Sp.Atk)
- Rock Slide/Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Cross Poison
- Brick Break

Ah, finally something that has some marginal benefit over Armaldo!

Munchlax(♂) @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk/200 Sp.Def/58 HP
Brave Nature (+Atk/-Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Return
- Zen Headbutt

How is this better than Snorlax?
Nothing outspeeds it in a Trick Room. All that happens is that it ties with minimum-speed Shuckle.
Click to expand...
Yep.
 
How is this better than Camerupt? Thanks to Numel's piteous base Attack, Camerupt still has more Attack after a Howl than Simple Numel.
Element of surprise. Besides, isn't Camerupt used for its Special Attack?

No.... "Element of suprise" doesn't mean using a shitty NFE that is outclassed in every way but it's evolved form.

Unless it is different from it's evo, don't even consider it IMO.
 
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