DP Research Thread #4 ("Newer still")

Obi said:

Sleep Talk: poccil or someone got Sleep Talk data directly from the game, and he said that Sleep Talk cannot choose, in particular,

"Uproar
Any two-turn attack"

Now, I am unsure just what qualifies as a "two-turn attack". Is it moves like Solarbeam when they need a charge-up turn, moves like Hyper Beam with a cool-down turn, moves like Outrage, that last 2-3 turns of attacking, or what?
.

Click to expand...

I partially tested this using a Cresselia with the moveset
-Rest
-Sleep talk
-Solarbeam
-Hyper Beam

When using Sleep talk the results I got were:

Hyper Beam is useable. User still recharges. User loses two Sleep Talk PP. User must recharge even if they wake up the next turn.

Solarbeam appears not to be useable... I went as far as to use the move deleter to reduce Hyper Beam from my moveset to increase the chances of Solar Beam being chosen and it was never chosen despite many tests.

Lord_Sunday said:

Hyper Beam is useable. User still recharges. User loses two Sleep Talk PP. User must recharge even if they wake up the next turn.

Click to expand...

Do you lose 2 Sleep Talk PP because you have to Sleep Talk on the recharge turn? Do you still lose 2 PP if you Sleep Talk Hyper Beam on your second Rest turn? Do you still lose 2 PP if you are Taunted after you Sleep Talk Hyper Beam so that Sleep Talk cannot be chosen?

Obi said:

Do you lose 2 Sleep Talk PP because you have to Sleep Talk on the recharge turn?

Click to expand...

Yes. two PP is lost because you have to sleep talk on the recharge turn, despite no Sleep talk messages being shown. Only the "Pokemon has to recharge"

Obi said:

Do you still lose 2 PP if you Sleep Talk Hyper Beam on your second Rest turn?

Click to expand...

No, only one Sleep talk PP is lost

Obi said:

Do you still lose 2 PP if you are Taunted after you Sleep Talk Hyper Beam so that Sleep Talk cannot be chosen?

Click to expand...

If a Pokemon is Taunted after sleep talking Hyper Beam they lose only one PP. Ingame message will be the normal "Pokemon is fast asleep".

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25175

The damage formula has just a few questions remaining, so if you could test these, this would be a great help!

To test these, you will need to likely do several hits. Just post who you are attacking with, your attacking stat, who you are attacking, and the defending stat. Wild Pokemon obviously won't work because you don't know their IVs.

Which comes first: my own Pure Power / Huge Power or my ally's Flower Gift?

Your Attack stat prior to applying these boosts must be odd for the test to be conclusive. Report as many hits as possible. You will have to be in 2v2 and use an attacker with Huge Power or Pure Power, and have its ally be a Flower Gift Pokemon under Sunny Day. The larger the damage you can do (in terms of HP, % won't help), the better. Attacking a Blissey of known Def and HP would be ideal because of this.

What is the order of Me First vs. Tinted Lens? We know they are back to back, but it is currently uncertain which comes first.

For testing this, calculate the damage up to Mod2. The number before that in the damage formula has to be odd, or the test will be inconclusive. Report as many hits as possible. Skill Swapping Tinted Lens onto Lucario would probably be easiest. The larger the damage you can do (in terms of HP, % won't help), the better. Obviously, the Pokemon has to resist the attack you are using (for instance, using Waterfall on Azumarill).

What is the order of DeepSeaScale vs. the Sandstorm Rock bonus?

For testing this, the Defense must be odd before applying modifiers, or the test will be inconclusive. Report as many hits as possible. Give Clamperl a DeapSeaScale, and turn it into the Rock type (for instance, Skill Swap Color Change and hit it with a Rock move, then Skill Swap Color Change away so it stays that type, or nail it with only special Rock moves). This is probably the most obscure test remaining for the damage formula.





If two Pokemon activate Quick Claw while Trick Room is in play, which Pokemon goes first?

Obi said:

If two Pokemon activate Quick Claw while Trick Room is in play, which Pokemon goes first?

Click to expand...

I tested this. The Pokemon with the higher speed stat will move first. (surprised me)

BTW also none of the research threads mention that hi CH ratio moves now only have a 12.5% chance of CHing instead of the 25% chance that was present in GSC and Advance(not sure about Advance though since i don't think anyone really tested it)

Is PBR testing acceptable? It's significantly easier for me than testing on D/P. There are some differences, though. For instance, No Guard attacks never hit through Protect in PBR (but can still hit when the target is using Fly, Dig, etc).

I'd like to think that the mechanics differences in PBR are revisions and fixes, but I'm not sure whether Competitor is being programmed using the D/P rules or the PBR rules.

I really don't know what differences are there between PBR and DP. I'd prefer that the testing be done in DP for the time being, and then later confirm it (or show that it's different) in PBR.

I have a question about dugtrio's Arena Trap. Say a double switch occurs and I switch first. My Dugtrio comes in on something without shed shell/levitate/flying type. If they chose to switch that turn, is it still possible once Dugtrio is in?

forbidden said:

I have a question about dugtrio's Arena Trap. Say a double switch occurs and I switch first. My Dugtrio comes in on something without shed shell/levitate/flying type. If they chose to switch that turn, is it still possible once Dugtrio is in?

Click to expand...

Interesting concept....Doesn't the faster pokemon switch first? Or is it random?

Me and you could test it if you want

I have a question regarding Thief.

If Thief was used against an opponent and it would normally KO them from full health (not that it does much damage normally), and the opponent is holding a Focus Sash, would the Sash protect them even though it was being stolen?

Here's the basic concept of it being tested. Since Thief is pretty weak you'd have to use it against a -6 Def, -Def nature opponent which is weak to Dark (Azelf and Alakazam spring to mind) holding a Focus Sash. A Swords Dance using Scizor would work, since it also has Technician to power up the damage.

My question is, would the Thief attack KO the opponent from full health, or would the Sash protect them before it was stolen?

Sash triggers before the item is stolen.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=727406&postcount=527

forbidden said:

I have a question about dugtrio's Arena Trap. Say a double switch occurs and I switch first. My Dugtrio comes in on something without shed shell/levitate/flying type. If they chose to switch that turn, is it still possible once Dugtrio is in?

Click to expand...

Arena Trap, Magnet Pull, and Shadow Tag cannot stop a Pokemon from switching out if they switch out the turn the Pokemon with said trait switches in, so yes, it is still possible.

I think it's interesting how effects that prevent actions can either prevent the selection of the action, the execution of the action, or both. For instance, Magnet Pull/Shadow Tag/Arena Trap only prevent you from selecting to switch, but not from actually switching. Torment prevents only the selection of a move, not its execution.

Conversely, Damp never prevents the selection of Explosion and Self-Destruct, just the execution of them. Disable and Taunt prevent both selection and execution of the appropriate move(s). Struggle only occurs if no move can be legally selected, but not if an action is prevented from executing.

The move and Ability analyses are very thorough, but perhaps more attention could be drawn to the distinction here. What do you all think?

For Liquid Ooze, is there a max damage you can receive from this when absorbing? Or will you end up taking all the damage you would have actually gained?

For Magic Guard, does this prevent damage from things like Burn, Hail, etc? Also, would a move like Future Sight that don't actually hit in the given turn still work?

For Dry Skin, how much HP is healed/drained each turn when Rain Dance/Sunny Day is in effect?

Thanks!

For Compound Eyes, how much is the chance increased that a wild Pokemon will be holding an item? Thanks!

Use the edit button next time. It helps smogon clutter less.

Obi said:

Quick Claw appears to activate closer to 25% of the time than 18.75%.

If you KO a Pokemon with Pursuit, do they get to select what Pokemon to send out after fainting, or do they have to stick with whatever Pokemon they originally chose?

Click to expand...

If you get ko'ed with pursuit on the switch, once they kill you have to choose again a switch in

Doom Desire and Future Sight harm a Magic Guard Pokemon. None of the others you mentioned do.

I don't believe it was ever tested whether Liquid Ooze harms a Magic Guard Pokemon, though.

Magic Guard blocks damage from Liquid Ooze:

Sceptile used Leech Seed on Tentacool
Tentacool attacks
Tentacool takes damage from Leech Seed
Sceptile takes damage from Liquid Ooze

Sceptile switches to Clefable.
Tentacool attacks
Tentacool takes damage from Leech Seed
Clefable's Magic Guard surpresses Tentacool's Liquid Ooze.

magic guard prevents all damaging weather from doing damage to the trait holder the clefa i used to test took no damage from the hail or sandstorm of the routes that have those effects auto going in battle

Burn and poison do no damage but Burn's attack drop still applys

out of battle a magic guard pokemon DOES still take poison damage

Does the Metronome boost after switched out? Imagine if you will this situation:

Togekiss uses Air Slash four or five times in a row.

Togekiss switches out.

Togekiss comes back in. Togekiss used Air Slash.


Is it boosted, or does it reset afterward?

skiddle said:

Does the Metronome boost after switched out? Imagine if you will this situation:

Togekiss uses Air Slash four or five times in a row.

Togekiss switches out.

Togekiss comes back in. Togekiss used Air Slash.


Is it boosted, or does it reset afterward?

Click to expand...

It has to be consecuative with no breaks, not sure how paralysis would effect it though

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, but... suppose I have a Drowzy with Assist as an egg move. The only other pokemon on my team is a Smeargle, and it only knows sketch. I've deleted all of Drowzy's other moves, so it only knows Assist. Drowzy is holding the Lag Tail (the item that always makes you move last). I run into a wild pokemon and it attacks me. Drowzy uses Assist and has no choice but to select Sketch. What will happen? Will Drowzy successfully "sketch" the previous move, thus replacing Assist with the new move? If so, would this bypass Wi-fi's "non-legitimate moveset checker?" Or will the move fail?

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/assist

You cannot assist Sketch.