Ludicolo (Ubers Analysis) [QC 2/2]

Ludicolo (Ubers Analysis)

[Overview]
- At first glance, seems like a terrible choice
- poor movepool, weak stats
- however, has Swift Swim, which allows it to outpace and function as a reliable revenge killer
- unfortunately lacks Kingdra's attacking stats and great typing; Ludicolo is just about outclassed
- also functions as a decent supporter with base 100 SpD
- can work on an Ubers Rain Dance team

[Set]
name: Ubers Rain Dance Sweeper
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Grass Knot
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Focus Blast
item: Life Orb
ability: Swift Swim
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]
- best used as a mid-game revenge killer since it doesn’t have the sheer power to attempt a sweep
- Hydro Pump best as Ludicolo needs all the power it can get
- Surf can be used over Hydro Pump because of its greater accuracy
- Grass Knot will usually be inflicting maximum damage against the heavy Pokemon in Ubers
- Ice Beam smacks Rayquaza and Shaymin-S on the switch, easily OHKOing both
- Focus Blast is Ludicolo's only option against Ferothorn, Dialga, Tyranitar
- great coverage attained by this set - only resisted by Shedinja

[Additional Comments]
- no point in EVs invested anywhere else so Ludicolo can maximize speed and damage output
- Kyogre is necessary for the SS speed boost
- unlike most rain sweepers, Ludicolo can beat Ferrothorn one-on-one
- Focus Blast is a 2HKO, and Ludicolo is impervious to Leech Seed, resists Gyro Ball
- susceptible to Revenge killing (by Rayquaza, Wobbuffet)
- Mixed Zekrom beats the latter, Scarf Palkia takes out Rayquaza at +1 Speed
- Darkrai is also good to take out Giratina (which doesn't take a lot from Ice Beam)

[Set]
name: Ubers SubSeeder
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Ice Beam / Substitute
move 3: Grass Knot
move 4: Protect
item: Leftovers
ability: Rain Dish
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
- might seem outclassed by Ferrothorn due to lower defenses and weaker movepool
- however, has some notable advantages
- can most likely restore more than 25% of its HP each turn with Rain Dish, Leftovers, and Leech Seed
- not 2HKOed by Kyogre's Water Spout
- substitute can stall out slower Pokemon
- Ice Beam OHKOes Salamence, Rayquaza, and Garchomp

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- beat by Rayquaza if not carrying Ice Beam
- Lugia is faster and can Toxic Ludicolo first
- Choice Scarf Palkia can take out Rayquaza
- Darkrai is a good check to Lugia

[Other Options]
- has swords dance but with its thin defenses, it will make Ludicolo hard-pressed to find a good time to use it
- can use HP Electric, but wouldn't get much additional coverage that Focus Blast does
- Giga Drain can restore its HP, but Grass Knot will generally be doing more damage

[Counters]
- Groudon ends Rain Dance and would then outspeed, but it is 2HKOed by Grass Knot
- Reshiram is not hit for SE damage by any attack and OHKOes with Draco Meteor
- Scarf Shaymin-S outspeeds Ludicolo in rain and OHKOes with Air Slash
- hard to get SE coverage on Ludicolo as it is only weak to Bug, Flying and Poison
- Lugia can take Ice Beams all day and can stall out Ludicolo with Toxic + Roost
- Dialga can stave off 2 Focus Blasts and KOes Ludicolo with Outrage; same goes for Giratina and Ice Beam
- Rayquaza resists your whole moveset except for Ice Beam, cancels the weather with Air Lock, and KOes Ludicolo with Outrage

[Dream World]

<p>Ludicolo's Dream World ability is Own Tempo, which prevents confusion. This ability is not very useful in comparision to Rain Dish and Swift Swim.</p>
 

Fireburn

BARN ALL
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Whatever happened to this set?

Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Substitute

Its got some nice advantages over Ferrothorn, mainly that it heals more per turn due to Rain Dish, is a much better Kyogre switch-in since it can take 2 Water Spouts without dying, lacks a crippling 4X Fire weakness, and has just enough Speed to use Substitute well to stall out slower defensive Pokemon.

Hydro Pump should be the primary slash over Surf as Ludicolo needs all the power it can get.

Mention Rayquaza as a counter - it resists your whole moveset except for Ice Beam, cancels the weather with Air Lock, and KOes Ludicolo with Outrage.
 
Fireburn, your set should use Ice Beam over Substitute or Protect. I think put Ice Beam over Substitute because Ludicolo is so slow without Swift Swim. Things like Lugia can Toxic you before you set a sub up.

With Ice Beam, Rayquaza, Garchomp and Salamence cannot setup on you. Ice Beam also hits Zekrom nicely, never an OHKO but Zekrom won't enjoy it.
 
Would Giga Drain be an acceptable option over Grass Knot for the Rain Dance sweeper? Life Orb + Entry Hazards wear down Ludicolo rather fast, and Giga Drain allows Ludicolo to heal some HP while still dealing major damage to things like the weather ubers.
 
not really as Grass Knot will be doing 120 BP most of the time (except against like Manaphy) but Giga Drain only has 75... yeah.
 
Ludicolo is Uber strong. I tried it myself and a few other mods tried.

Slash in Scald on Ubers Sub seeder over Protect. Scald might be weak but in rain, it hits decently hard and the burn rate can annoy Ferrothorn a lot. Burn + Leech Seed allows Ludicolo to annoy many Arceus formes since they hate losing a quarter of their health every turn. Protect is useful but Rain Dish + Leech Seed will heal Ludicolo a lot and it forces many switches. Scald also makes Ludicolo not so Ferrothorn or Ho-Oh bait. Without investment, Focus Blast can't do much to Ferrothorn. The main reason to use Scald is to burn things and abuses rain.

Mention Dialga as an awesome partner since they have awesome synergy and together they force a lot of switches. Dialga sets up Stealth Rock which piles up residual damage.

I think you should move the Ubers Sub seeder as the main set because it works best in Ubers to stop Kyogre which is Ludicolo's most awesome trait. The offensive one can be 2HKOed by Specs Kyogre easily.

Heracross and Scizor can threaten the Sub seeder but loses to the Offensive one.

Looks good otherwise.



QC APPROVED (1/2)
 
Agree with the above post. Under Rain it is the fastest Subseeder next to Eruffun. The advantage is it gets Ice Beam and a strong Hydro Pump, although on a subseed set, Scald might be better for Burning (helps it take physical hits and do more damage against walls like Lugia). Remember, if people can use Jumpluff under the sun for a fast Sleep Powder, Leech Seed, Substitute, etc. then Ludicolo is like the offensive rain version.

Hydro Pump hits harder than Focus Blast on Darkrai in the rain and is more accurate. But simply replacing Darkrai with Tyranitar can fix that (480 Base Power vs 360 under Sandstream). So edit comments on first set.


Leech Seed heals based on the foe's HP, so it will likely heal Ludicolo more than 12.5% due to Ubers like Kyogre, Lugia, etc. having bigger HP. So don't say with Rain Dish + Leftovers + Leech Seed it heals 25%, chances are its likely more unless its a random OU or UU used in Ubers like Heracross. Edit the comments in the 2nd set.
 
Groudon ends Rain Dance and would then outspeed, but it is OHKOed by Grass Knot
Uhhh... with the given spread (0 SpA neutral nature) you deal 63.9% - 75.7% to 252 / 0 Groudon. Not sure where you got that calc from, but it isn't even close to an OHKO. I am not saying groudon counters you or anything, but change OHKO to 2HKO.
 
I agree that the set order should be reversed. Also, the leech seed set does not have sub as a primary option, so it probably shouldn't be called "subseed." Maybe "Ubers Rain Dish" or something
 

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