Research Group #4 - Porygon-Z, Zoroark, Venomoth

[kokoloko*]

Hello fellow UUers, it's time for the fourth installment of the Research Group!

#1 | #2 | #3

Keep the following things in mind during every Research Group:

• Be open-minded, don't just say something is terrible and walk away; look at its stats, movepool, and typing and think something up!
• Feel free to theorymon early in the research period, but make it clear you're doing so. Later in the period though, you will be expected to back up your posts with hard evidence like logs, actual sets, perhaps even teams.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's very likely that something has gone unnoticed.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. Like I said before, feel free to VM / PM me these suggestions, but don't expect me to always listen to you.

Research Group #4


Porygon-Z | Zoroark | Venomoth

How useful are these Pokemon in UU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #genvuu as well!

The Research Group Challenge:

In order to participate you must do the following:

• Send me a PM / post here or on IRC with a fresh alt and the name(s) of the Pokemon you will be using.
• Use at least one of the Pokemon being researched.
• Post your experiences with the Pokemon you're using, participate in the discussion!

The first stage of the challenge will be very relaxed so theorymon will be allowed as long as its backed up by good reasoning. During the later stage, discussion will be expected to be backed up by hard evidence, such as teams, actual sets, and logs. The winner of the challenge will be the person who is at the highest rating on the alt they registered at the time the challenge ends. If you win, you will receive temporary hops on #genvuu, but you may only claim your prize if you actually participated in the discussion!

Current Participants:

Forum Name - Ladder Alt

DatOddish - PeeZee
D4RR3N - Gee_Gee
Fast Flygon - insectoid dreams
jamashawalker - porygonZXadvent
FlareBlitz - IllusionFlare
NGC-2024 - Lemon Squeezy
TrollFreak - TrollFreak
SilentRevolver - R-Evolve
PsYch071c - Psychotic
mostwanted - LUST
DestinyUnknown - Destiny_Unknown
jonathanrp - jonathanrp1
S3rris - Eagle Spire
Omfuga216 - Omfuga Venomoth
YellowSwellow - Swellow3
TSTEF - Tgon-Z
FruitSeller - Fruit
thawigga - Sans Serif

[DatOddish]

:o P-Z, thanks for adding that.
I'm going with it, also trying the other guys out but for now it's only pz.
Alt: PeeZee

[TrollFreak]

Going to try and learn UU and participate (Sorry If my discussion sounds like I don't know the tier, which I don't. However, I don't see any harm in leaning)

TrollFreak- Pory 2 and Zoro (I see a good team coming from these two)

[D4RR3N]

entering with Porygon-Z

alt: Gee_Gee

[FastFlygon]

alt: insectoid dreams
probably using Venomoth and maybe Porygon-Z as well...
The obvious Venomoth set is Baton Pass to something like Nidoking, but I'm thinking I might actually try some sort of bulky setup mon with QD and Tinted Lens. It gets Roost, and Venomoth is immune to Poison, so you'd only have to watch out for the odd paralysis or burn, neither of which cripple it too much. It doesn't have the best defense though, so it would probably need quite a bit of support. Porygon-z is the epitome of a glass cannon but it doesn't have fantastic speed. It could be pretty neat with lots of paralysis though, methinks. Zoroark is sort of an oddball, because while illusion is cool in theory, basically every Zoro I see is sashed in the lead position and trying to get a kill early on. Team Preview basically nerfs it into the ground, though, since you can alter the way you play against specific threats to account for it. It's also severly hurt by the popularily of fast U-turn leads, since any U-turn will reveal it and also deal very heavy damage thanks to it's paper defenses and bug Weakness. I imagine the only way it's going to be genuinely useful is by coming in mid-to-lategame when the opponent has semi-forgotten about it and trying to pull off a bluff to get Nasty Plot off. It might also work out mixed using Sucker Punch to sniper things that don't see it coming. It's very reliant on Illusion though, since there are better Sucker Punchers otherwise. 105 base speed sounds like a lot but many of the Pokemon fragile enough to get OHKOd by it are actually faster, which is another issue. ill probly still try it if i get the chance tho.

[kokoloko*]

Originally Posted by Fat TrollFreak

Going to try and learn UU and participate (Sorry If my discussion sounds like I don't know the tier, which I don't. However, I don't see any harm in leaning)

TrollFreak- Pory 2 and Zoro (I see a good team coming from these two)

So you're going to use the alt TrollFreak for the challenge? Maybe it's just me, but it isn't clear from your post. Also, if this is the case, just make sure it didn't have any rating beforehand (probably, since ladder got reset, but still).

[jamashawalker]

I already know the power of double dance porgonZ. So i might stick with that or bring back my throwback team of Venomoth.

My alt will be: porygonZXadvent

[FlareBlitz]

Using Zoroark.

Alt: IllusionFlare

[NGC-2024]

my alt's name is Lemon Squeezy because its easy with p-z

i should get an award for that awful pun-based name.

[TrollFreak]

Originally Posted by Fat kokoloko

So you're going to use the alt TrollFreak for the challenge? Maybe it's just me, but it isn't clear from your post. Also, if this is the case, just make sure it didn't have any rating beforehand (probably, since ladder got reset, but still).

Oh sorry, yea thats my alt. And Like I said, haven't played UU at all, but the whole point of this is to learn/discuss, so I don't see any harm in this

[SilentRevolver]

I'm ready to participate this time! I'm using the mega power of Porygon-Z and Venomoth! I see a lot of promise with Baton Passing Quiver Dances to P-Z.
Alt:R-Evolve

[FlareBlitz]

Start of turn 1
Slowbro used Flamethrower!
It's super effective!
Spetsnaz Pride's Yanmega lost 100% of its health!
Spetsnaz Pride's Yanmega fainted!
Slowbro is hurt by its Life Orb!

Spetsnaz Pride: outspeed?
IllusionFlare: It's the world's fastest slowbro.

I don't know if using Zoroark is competitively efficient yet, but I do know that it's very fucking enjoyable.

[FastFlygon]

^ I legitimately loled.
I think you might actually have convinced me to give Zoroark a go, lol.

[Omfuga216]

Im joining using venomoth as "oh herro"

[kokoloko*]

Originally Posted by Fat Omfuga216

Im joining using venomoth as "oh herro"

it needs to be a brand new alt, i'm being told the alt oh herro has been in use since before you even posted. please use a fresh alt to participate in the challenge.

[rlyn99]

So far, i've been using the specs variant of Porygon Z with adaptability, Tri attack/Dark Pulse/Thunderbolt/Ice beam. Its been doing pretty well, but it does get walled by dedicated special walls i.e. Snorlax, Umbreon, etc. Dusclops gives it some problems but good prediction can overcome it. I might slash in Psyshock to deal with Machamp and friends, and maybe do something to snorlax.

[PsYch071c]

Zoroark time
alt: Psychotic

Not used it since the ladder reset

[mostwanted]

Going to try Venomoth

alt: LUST

[Omfuga216]

Originally Posted by Fat kokoloko

it needs to be a brand new alt, i'm being told the alt oh herro has been in use since before you even posted. please use a fresh alt to participate in the challenge.

It was an already used alt, but I already hit #1 with it using a venomoth previously. whatever though. Ill just use a new alt Omfuga Venomoth.

[DestinyUnknown]

Probably using Porygon-Z

Alt: Destiny_Unknown

[jonathanrp]

gonna try out venomoth.

Alt: jonathanrp1

[S3rris]

Testing Porygon-Z

alt: Eagle Spire

[FastFlygon]

So I've been theorymoning Zoroark a little more and I can't say I'm especially impressed. I was thinking about a Life Orb + 4 Attacks set with Sucker Punch as a niche over other, similar Pokemon, but Dark just has such weak moves that the 120 base special attack is misleading. 252 Hasty LO Zoro Night Daze barely 2HKOs 0/0 Raikou, who while not the epitome of fragility is hardly what one would call a wall. Nasty Plot seems more viable, but with the defenses of sodden cardboard you're relying on Illusion and a bluff to do it, which is restrictive to both teambuilding and play. If only this thing had a usable 100+ base power STAB it might actually be pretty good, lol. I haven't actually gotten around to any testing but I'm thinking right now that Porygon-Z is going to be the most effective of these. Venomoth seemd cool in theory but honestly I think it's going to be mostly outclassed by Lilligant if it tries anything other than Baton Pass and I personally dislike Baton Pass in general since it's very rare to find a team that does better with a Baton Passer than it would with another attacker, wall or w/e in that slot. That's not to say that Baton Pass is useless, but it's more of a neat move to slap onto sweepers so the can pass once they find something they can't beat for me.
Anyway, I guess you could say I have a little criticism for this challenge in particular. All three Pokemon are fragile special attackers, which is kinda restrictive as far as teambuilding goes. It would be nice if we could see a bit more variety in terms of roles and such in the future, or even better, a 4th Pokemon added that played a slightly more different role, preferably one with some bulk. I was going to build some sort of bulky offense today but none of these really fit on a bulky team - the closest is Venomoth, but mediocre typing and an SR weakness hamper it a little in that regard. I might mess around with CB Porygon-Z as a general special lure and mixed attacker, I don't know yet.
EDIT: to clarify, I'm not specifically complaining about the Pokemon you chose. All three of these are cool to test out. But... all three in the same research week might be a bit much, IDK.

[Omicron]

Venomoth is hardly outclassed by Lilligant. Both get Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, and have similar stats. Venomoth has the ability to Baton Pass these boosts, whereas Lilligant cannot. Lilligant has major coverage issues depending on the type of Hidden Power it chooses, whereas Venomoth can choose to go mono-type with Bug Buzz and still rip through its resisted opponents thanks to Tinted Lens. Venomoth also boasts very useful resistances including a 4x resistance to Fighting-type moves. Despite being weak to Stealth Rock, Venomoth has its own advantages over Lilligant, and is not in any way outclassed, as you put. They each excel differently as sweepers, but Lilligant actually needs more support, with certain targets out of the way before it attempts to sweep. Not to mention Lilligant is fairly predictable, whereas you don't know whether or not Venomoth is an all-out sweeper or a Baton Passer.

[FlareBlitz]

Currently sitting at 1322 and #2 on the ladder. Zoroark is pretty competitively viable - however, you need to be very skilled and knowledgeable in the metagame to use it, and you absolutely need to build a team around it. Zoroark does not function well unless almost every team member's role is related to it in some way. That said, once you build a good team, you can engage in some pretty amusing antics. If your opponent has a Xatu, having it waltz in on a Gligar only to be eaten by a Dark Pulse is very gratifying, not to mention that it then makes your Gligar useful in that match. And, against higher level players, you can switch an actual Gligar into Xatu and have them switch out in fear of Dark Pulse from Zoroark, only to giggle as you get SR up / Toxic something important. You can also revenge kill certain powerful Pokemon by pretending to be something that can only be hit by their coverage move - come into Zapdos while masquerading as a Gligar and force it to use HP Ice while you happily Dark Pulse it.

For those interested in trying Zoroark, I have some tips:

- Never use zoroark without either substitute or sucker punch.
- As a corollary to this, choiced zoroark is shit.
- Night Daze is bad. That 95% hit rate is abysmal in a way only those who have used Togekiss' Air Slash can attest to, and the flinch chance from Dark Pulse is a lot better than Night Daze's accuracy fall.
- Zoroark is incredibly bad at taking hits. Disguise it as Pokemon that attract non-attacking moves - a Zoroark disguised as a Blastoise could easily cause some damage as your opponents try to taunt and status you.
- It's usually not a good idea to lead with your zoroark. Save it for mid-game - a lot of opponents will even forget about it by that point, allowing you to successfully bluff.