UU Cores

TSTEF · Jul 7th, 2012, 2:05:40 AM

UU Core Collection Thread

So, after recently having my other thread locked, I came up with a new thread that I thought would be a good contribution to the UU community. Since I'm assuming there will also be a decent amount of begginers in every tier, or just people that aren't good at team building, I thought that a place to collect the best cores in the tier would be a good resource. Since i myself am not the best team builder (yet), I thought a thread like this would help me as well as the rest of UU.

Anyway, one of the biggest aspects to team building is cores, having a stable core, be it offensive, defensive, or mixed. Defensive cores are designed to counter a wide range of offensive threats, while offensive cores are designed to take out a wide range of defensive threats. A core consists of 2-3 Pokemon, that work well together, be it offensively, defensively, or both, and can work together to take out a majority of the tier. Armed with a collection of cores, team building should become quite a bit easier. Also, NO CORE IS PERFECT, AND CAN TAKE OUT EVERY SINGLE THREAT IN THE TIER. EVERY CORE WILL HAVE COUNTERS, SO DON'T SAY A CORE "SUCKS" BECAUSE IT IS BROKEN BY A FEW THINGS.

So to help with this, post with a core that you have found to work well in the current metagame. (yes, I know the new B2W2 metagame is quite different) Pokemon names, movesets, EV spreads, etc. should be included, and a short description of how the cores/Pokemon in them function. I will compile the cores in the OP to make for a quick and easy way to view them. With all that said, post away!

Offensive

Zoroark+Heracross

...

Mismagius+Bisharp

...

Moltres+Krookodile

...

Darmanitan+Roserade+Kingdra

...

Defensive

Roserade+Snorlax+Slowbro

...

Gligar+Snorlax

...

Empoleon+Zapdos

...

Umbreon+Dusclops

...

Mixed/Other

Slowbro+Amoonguss+Arcanine

...

JayHankEdLyon · Jul 7th, 2012, 2:18:24 AM

Gligar @ Eviolite

Ability: Immunity
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Roost
- Earthquake
- U-Turn

Snorlax @ Leftovers

Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)
- Body Slam
- Whirlwind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Snorlax and Gligar are an amazing defensive core and my personal favorite. Snorlax has only one weakness, the usually physical Fighting, which Gligar walls with ease (lol Heracross). Meanwhile with Thick Fat, Snorlax resists the Ice attacks that Gligar so hates.

Their stats on the defensive and special defensive sides are at the top of their game (Snorlax is unquestionably the best special wall in UU, while Gligar is certainly up there if not the very best on the physical end). Gligar can set up rocks while Snorlax whirlwinds. Gligar's presence makes Raikou and Zapdos more likely to use HP Ice out of worry, which Snorlax appreciates (and choice varieties that DO get stuck on a Thunderbolt for Snorlax nets a free Gligar switch.)

Gligar also has Baton Pass, which can potentially used to buff up dear Snorlax. Watch out guys, Agililax is here to wreck your shit.

They are simply the best there is.

TSTEF · Jul 7th, 2012, 10:59:31 PM

Seems like a really solid core, OP updated.

Iridium · Jul 8th, 2012, 3:11:20 PM

I had a defensive core of alomomola + p2 (specially defensive) for my first team on pokemon showdown (nyaminyan). only lost one match out of 17.
P2 also had psych up to beat CM raikou (and it seemed to work lol)

btw, the one loss would have been easily avoided by switching to alomomola instead of banking on being able to finish off his last guy in one turn with darm instead of the several it would have taken playing it safe

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 8th, 2012, 4:32:00 PM

You call those cores? They suck. Mixed meinshao defeats that snorlax and gligar core. And Heracross beats that first core. How about we have cores that can't be destroyed by one pokemon, right?

Cores aren't made to cover just physical/special aspects but should have type synergy that allows each pokemon to take on a specific threat the other two can't. While simultaneously providing support for its core members and its team in general. When all core pokemon are weak to one poke that's very poor team building.

Not Jacky · Jul 8th, 2012, 4:54:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

You call those cores? They suck. Mixed meinshao defeats that snorlax and gligar core. And Heracross beats that first core. How about we have cores that can't be destroyed by one pokemon, right?

Cores aren't made to cover just physical/special aspects but should have type synergy that allows each pokemon to take on a specific threat the other two can't. While simultaneously providing support for its core members and its team in general. When all core pokemon are weak to one poke that's very poor team building.

The fact that Magmortar could break Tangela + Slowking didn't make Tanking a bad core in uu.

It's unrealistic to have two or three pokemon check every single threat in the tier. Whole teams often have trouble with a few threats. A good core should cover enough threats to take pressure off their teammates, who deal with anything problematic to the said core. Mixed Mienshao is meant to break walls; the fact that only dedicated wallbreakers can tear down a core should be a testament to how well it's built.

Iridium · Jul 8th, 2012, 5:56:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

You call those cores? They suck. Mixed meinshao defeats that snorlax and gligar core. And Heracross beats that first core. How about we have cores that can't be destroyed by one pokemon, right?

Well that's what the rest of the team is for. Like I added a nidoking to my team to take care of SD heracross. and cobalion. You can't expect to beat an entire team with just two-three pokemon.

JayHankEdLyon · Jul 8th, 2012, 5:56:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superbadd

You call those cores? They suck. Mixed meinshao defeats that snorlax and gligar core. And Heracross beats that first core. How about we have cores that can't be destroyed by one pokemon, right?

Cores aren't made to cover just physical/special aspects but should have type synergy that allows each pokemon to take on a specific threat the other two can't. While simultaneously providing support for its core members and its team in general. When all core pokemon are weak to one poke that's very poor team building.

Man, too bad it's impossible for one of the other four slots to be filled by someone who counters mixed Mienshao. Slowbro is not physically able to fit on a team with both Gligar and Snorlax to account for mixed Mien or mixed Cobalion.

In any case, yeah, cores are only good if they account for every single pokemon in the metagame, which is a totally possible thing to do, which is why nobody ever wins with any offensive pokemon because it's so easy to counter them all with a small group of defenders.

What's really sad is that my poorly built team is consistently in the top ten on PO and is climbing through the ranks like wildfire in Showdown. Guess that means everyone I'm beating is even poorer at team building. Everybody is awful.

EDIT: Sorry for the snark, it's my gut reaction against ridiculous comments. Also hope that nobody thinks I'm actually saying that everyone here is awful.

***kokoloko**** · Jul 8th, 2012, 6:20:16 PM

^ JayHankEdLyon's post is unacceptable due to it's tone, but he is correct and the post he was replying to was absurd, so I'm letting it stand. However, everybody needs to calm down or I'll start modding and whatnot.

This thread has potential, don't get into petty arguments and ruin it.

LucaroarkZ · Jul 8th, 2012, 7:18:06 PM

No offensive cores in the OP yet? Here's a good one:

Zoroark @ Life Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Grass Knot

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit

The Zoroark + Heracross combo in UU has always been good stuff, but recently it gained a buff with the release of Moxie Heracross. The theory behind the core is actually very simple: Heracross is in the last party spot, meaning Zoroark will come out disguised as it. This is a good combination because entry hazards damage will not give away Zoroark's disguise and due to the defensive synergy as well. Heracross resists Bug and Fighting while Zoroark is immune to Psychic. However, in actual practice it is a little more tricky to use as Zoroark doesn't copy the remaining HP percentage of the Pokemon it is disguised as, but using Wish supporters can help with this problem. Snorlax may attempt to block Zoroark's sweep, while Heracross can threaten it with Close Combat in order to make it easier for Zoroark to sweep with Nasty Plot. In addition to this, Zoroark, while disguised as Heracross, can lure in Ghost-types such as Dusclops and Mismagius who may be greedy enough to attempt to switch in on Close Combat and hit them with Dark Pulse, making it easier for Heracross to revenge kill or pull off a late-game sweep.

hilarious · Jul 8th, 2012, 7:19:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat JayHankEdLyon

Man, too bad it's impossible for one of the other four slots to be filled by someone who counters mixed Mienshao. Slowbro is not physically able to fit on a team with both Gligar and Snorlax to account for mixed Mien or mixed Cobalion.

In any case, yeah, cores are only good if they account for every single pokemon in the metagame, which is a totally possible thing to do, which is why nobody ever wins with any offensive pokemon because it's so easy to counter them all with a small group of defenders.

What's really sad is that my poorly built team is consistently in the top ten on PO and is climbing through the ranks like wildfire in Showdown. Guess that means everyone I'm beating is even poorer at team building. Everybody is awful.

Yes because you are evidently amazing for beating scrubs using scrub teams which gives you perfect authority to call everyone here awful.

And no I also do not think Gligar and Snorlax is a very good defensive core right now because Gligar is way overrated and frankly I do not think it is even rated pretty high anyways. A physical wall that cannot counter LO Darm, Ice Punch Rhyperior, SD Heracross, Weavile, Azumarill, Mienshao, DD Kingdra or Sharpedo is questionable. A physical wall that cannot reliably beat all Flygon (CB/mixed needs a bit of prior damage to 2hko you), Victini (CB/mixed sears right through you), LO Honchkrow (Brave Bird can do you in two hits if you are at ~80%) or Cobalion (HP Ice) is just not good. Cobalion hardly even needs HP Ice if it gets a flinch which will inevitably lead to another flinch after you try Roosting. Snorlax pulls its (big!)weight but Gligar is a physical wall that cannot wall most every non-Scarfed physical threats.

jrrrrrrr · Jul 8th, 2012, 7:26:35 PM

^Almost none of those things you listed are ever seen. Except Mienshao, who just popped into the tier. And why are you saying that Gligar sucks because it can't counter Weavile, Kingdra and Azumarill? What Ground-type can? Gligar walls Fighting, Ground and Flygon. Your post is like saying Porygon2 sucks because it can't counter Machamp.

Ginku · Jul 8th, 2012, 7:29:30 PM

actually most of those are pretty common

edit since jrrrrr added content: I don't necessarily agree that gligar is a bad wall, but pretty much all of the mons listed are viable threats and shouldn't be forgotten when looking for one. It's also worth noting that gligar will have to roost a lot because it needs to be at nearly full hp to counter things like CB flygon.

~~superbadd~~ · Jul 8th, 2012, 7:34:25 PM

Quote:

Man, too bad it's impossible for one of the other four slots to be filled by someone who counters mixed Mienshao. Slowbro is not physically able to fit on a team with both Gligar and Snorlax to account for mixed Mien or mixed Cobalion.

In any case, yeah, cores are only good if they account for every single pokemon in the metagame, which is a totally possible thing to do, which is why nobody ever wins with any offensive pokemon because it's so easy to counter them all with a small group of defenders.

What's really sad is that my poorly built team is consistently in the top ten on PO and is climbing through the ranks like wildfire in Showdown. Guess that means everyone I'm beating is even poorer at team building. Everybody is awful.

Mixed meinshao carries grass knot sometimes. So I don't think slowbro works.

Anyway, never did I say in my post that cores should counter everything but when a core can get it's ass handed to it by one pokemon, that's pretty bad. Cofagrigus/Porygon2/Umbreon is a great core that can't be obliterated by one pokemon. Checking everything is impossible but making sure not any one pokemon can destroy a core single handedly isn't that hard.

Btw boasting about your ladder ranking isn't the best way to prove an argument but denotes insecurity within your own discretion. Just sayin'. Besides laddering on PO isn't exactly the hardest thing to do. PS is even easier.

***kokoloko**** · Jul 8th, 2012, 7:55:34 PM

Didn't I just say don't let petty arguments ruin this thread?

I don't wanna delete the above posts because there's actually some useful content in them, but stop with the shit-slinging or I'll start modding.

@superbadd - NP Heal Bell Togekiss shits on your core, btw. As does Spikes Roserade + offense... and Taunt + Toxic Crobat... and pretty much any stallbreaker. Sorry to break it to you but there's no perfect core. Stop acting like there is.

TSTEF · Jul 8th, 2012, 8:14:54 PM

Alright, well I guess I have to make it clear in the OP that no core is perfect. I thought I did say that cores can take out a majority of the tier, but not all of it, but I guess I wasn't clear enough. Zoro+Heracross is a good one, I'll add that in. I didn't find any other cores through the arguing, but if there was, feel free to repost it.

Edit: Also, Remember that Cores are 2-3 pokemon. Not all of them have to be just 2, although it does free up that extra team slot for something else.

hilarious · Jul 8th, 2012, 8:15:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat jrrrrrrr

^Almost none of those things you listed are ever seen. Except Mienshao, who just popped into the tier. And why are you saying that Gligar sucks because it can't counter Weavile, Kingdra and Azumarill? What Ground-type can? Gligar walls Fighting, Ground and Flygon. Your post is like saying Porygon2 sucks because it can't counter Machamp.

I play UU so much its not even healthy (so I do know if some things are common and while none of those by themselves are exceedingly common they do exist and when you play UU you will be playing against them).

38% of Darmanitan's run LO or CB. 23.6% of Rhyperior run Ice Punch. 16.5% of Heracross run Swords Dance. 29.8% of Flygon run CB.

Don't ask what ground can wall them, ask what physical wall can beat those physical threats. Porygon2 is not primarily a physical wall so it should not have to wall physical threats. It is a bulky tank. You also fail to recognize in your post that Porygon2 has a single weakness. Gligar is a (mediocre) physical wall. It should wall physical threats. It does not, as I have unquestionably proved, wall a large amount of physical threats. You erroneously claim Gligar can wall Fighting Pokemon and yet Scrafty, Mienshao, SD Heracross, Ice Punch Machamp (32.1% usage) all defeat Gligar using standard sets. Your Fighting resist...loses to Fighting Pokemon! Other Fighting Pokemon can easily walk around Gligar, Heracross needs only to abuse SD and Cobalion needs only to use HP Ice. Cobalion can actually statistically beat Gligar after it switches in SR twice if Gligar tries to counter him. All it needs is SD as Gligar sits at 75%. Iron Head now has a 30% flinch rate and a 6.25% to crit Gligar. If neither happen the Cobalion can absorb an Earthquake and go for another flinch or crit which at that point has a combined chance of 72.5%. Math is not my strong point though, especially probability, so perhaps it would be better to multiply the two 63.75% chances together to get 40.64% of Gligar not being critted or flinched. If you did get a Flinch the first turn Gligar will fall in two more Iron Heads while it cannot OHKO back so it must Roost as you go for another Iron Head and then another as it must Roost again. The chance for a flinch or crit is now undeniably huge. So once more, Gligar loses to a Fighting Pokemon.

The you claim Gligar walls Grounds which is equally false. Rhyperior needs only Ice Punch to ruin Gligar. Nidoking walks right over Gligar. Claydol wins the match up because he runs Ice Beam or Toxic. Little Hippo is irrelevant now. Swampetr now often maxes his attack and abuses Waterfall to beat Gligar. CB Flygon needs only that double SR switch in or just one and a U-turn to Outrage you later if you try to counter him. Flygon can also go mixed. I will concede Krookodile to you though. So essentially Gligar can beat...one out of much more than one Ground type in UU. Maybe two if you count opposing Gligar w/o Taunt or Toxic.

Gligar reliably counters very few physical threats.

Every single time you face one of these threats your core is rendered almost useless because Gligar could not function as a physical wall. You have the rest of your team, fine, but the fact remains that if a core folds to so much of the game then at some point you have to stop calling it a core. Everyone also needs to remember that Gligar loses Leftovers which is absolutely huge because of all the U-turns it has to take, all the switching it has to do with Stealth Rocks up. A Fake Out+U-Turn from Mienshao to a special attacker to force Gligar out and then setting up SR with anything because all of Empoleon Swampert and bronzong can scare Gligar is all it takes to reduce Gligar to already 75% or so health after the SR switch in. At this point it loses the ability to even counter LO Arcanine and Scarf Darmanitan - don't tell me those aren't common now. Gligar resists Fighting and Ground and Bug, if you look from a physical stand point that is all that truly matters. But look at you, Gligar cannot even beat Scrafty or Mienshao or Cobalion often! This is pathetic. Gligars problem is that basically the great majority of UU physical attackers can carry STABs strong against it or power through it or use coverage moves against it.

I have not even mentioned the special attackers that can get through Snorlax and squish Gligar which though few in number still exist.

If this is anything though, this is a defensive core and defensive cores may often be the beginning of a stall team and even if not they still are at least the stall element a team has. I love stall very much but it is extremely ineffective right now because the crap load of attackers UU feature. There are absolutely no two UU defenders that can defend against the majority of UU, bump it up to three and maybe you get better results but by then you probably are just a bad stall team and if you go full stall you get walked on by the power houses in UU now.

JayHankEdLyon · Jul 8th, 2012, 10:32:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat hilarious

Yes because you are evidently amazing for beating scrubs using scrub teams which gives you perfect authority to call everyone here awful.

Part of the snark. I don't think everyone here is awful. I think you're all wonderful!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat hilarious

And no I also do not think Gligar and Snorlax is a very good defensive core right now because Gligar is way overrated and frankly I do not think it is even rated pretty high anyways. A physical wall that cannot counter LO Darm, Ice Punch Rhyperior, SD Heracross, Weavile, Azumarill, Mienshao, DD Kingdra or Sharpedo is questionable. A physical wall that cannot reliably beat all Flygon (CB/mixed needs a bit of prior damage to 2hko you), Victini (CB/mixed sears right through you), LO Honchkrow (Brave Bird can do you in two hits if you are at ~80%) or Cobalion (HP Ice) is just not good. Cobalion hardly even needs HP Ice if it gets a flinch which will inevitably lead to another flinch after you try Roosting. Snorlax pulls its (big!)weight but Gligar is a physical wall that cannot wall most every non-Scarfed physical threats.

It's been my personal experience that the vast majority of physical threats in UU are walled by Gligar, if only because of the sheer amount of scarfed physical threats. Look at the numbers you posted for LO/CB Darm and the like: those are all the minority.

This isn't me saying that you can't knock my idea without presenting your own (which would essentially be the same stupid logic that might state movie critics have to make their own movies) but I am curious if you have a better core in mind. Just because you're obviously more into this than me and my views are probably skewed because Gligar fits right in with my particular team.

czechm8 · Jul 9th, 2012, 10:40:29 AM

I've been using a FWG core of Slowbro, Amoonguss, and Arcanine. However, it has a few twists.
EDIT: I guess this is more of a mixed core than a truly defensive one.

Slowbro @ Choice Specs Regenerator
Bold 252HP 252 Def 4SpAtk
Scald
Slack Off
Psyshock
Trick

A normal defensive slowbro but where status or a coverage move would normally go I run trick. This allows it to do a little more damage to opponents pokemon initially. Then when they least expect it (normally switching to something that counters slowbro) BAM they were just crippled with some shiny new specs. If he gets lefties then he plays like a normal slowbro; if he gets a life orb or choice item he can trick it to another poke later in the match.

Amoonguss @ Lefties Regenerator
Calm 252HP 4SpAtk 252SpDef
Spore
Toxic
Clear Smog
Synthesis

Normal Amoonguss set, has pretty good synergy with Slowbro; especially since both are essentially immune to hazards thanks to their nifty abilities. Amoonguss also absorbs toxic spikes which can greatly hinder slowbro's walling abilities. Clear Smog prevents him from becoming set up fodder.

Arcanine @ Life Orb Flash Fire
Jolly 252 Atk 4spdef 252 Spe
Flare Blitz
Extreme speed
Crunch
Morning Sun
Yes I know this is an offensive Nine in a defensive core. His main purpose is to stop chandalure from ripping are bro and shroom. He can take a shadow ball, is immune to fireblast and deals heavy damage back with crunch. Extreme speed picks off speedy things that need to die, and morning sun provides mostly reliable recovery.

A Fhaol Bhig · Jul 9th, 2012, 10:48:29 AM

Oh my god people calm down. superbadd may have gone over the top in trying to denounce your cores, but you are being no better then him when you respond with a negative tone back at him. Just concentrate on proving why your core is viable, maybe explain what your team is like and why the core works for you, and would work for other teams. Concentrate on what people are saying about the cores, not their petty insults.

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
--Scald
--Stealth Rock
--Roar
--Toxic / Ice Beam

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
--Thunderbolt
--HP Ice
--Roost
--Toxic / Roar

Empoleon has a great specially defensive set, and Zapdos has a great physically defensive set. Together, they have fantastic synergy. Zapdos can take the ground, fighting, and electric attacks aimed at Empoleon, and Empoleon can take the Ice and Rock attacks aimed at Zapdos. Empoleon has Stealth Rock, which is good because there is a lot of switching involved with this combo. As a bonus, scald can burn physical attackers that might put the hurt into Zapdos.

Also I'd like to quote:

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Adamant
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
--Swords Dance
--Sucker Punch
--Iron Head
--Brick Break

Mismagius @ Life Orb
Timid
252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
--Substitute
--Nasty Plot
--Shadow Ball
--Thunderbolt / HP Fighting

Two boosting sweepers, one physical and one special. The two work so well together mostly because one can safely switch in and force out all of the counters of the other. For example, although SubPlot Missy can't handle Chansey, Bisharp can switch in and use the free turn of set up. And likewise, Mismagius can take out any Hitmontop facing Bisharp (worrying about Hitmontop's Sucker Punch? Use it as set up bait!). They cover each others' weaknesses almost perfectly (Mismagius is neutral to Fire), meaning that Mismagius can take all fighting or ground attacks (particularly HJKs), and Bisharp can take any ghost or dark attacks. Mismagius can run Thunderbolt to plow through some bulky waters that give Bisharp trouble, but HP Fighting has better coverage.

Ivymo16 · Jul 9th, 2012, 10:50:00 AM

Here is a core that I think works well in UU

Quagsire
impish; 252 hp, 252 def; unaware; leftovers, toxic, encore, recover, earthquake

Porygon 2
calm; 252 hp, 252 sp.d; trace; eviolite; toxic, recover, ice beam, and tbolt

Gligar
impish; 252 hp 252 def; immunity; eviolite; toxic, roost, earthquake, u-turn/stealth rock

Coverage: Porygon 2 handles the special threats in uu, Gligar handles the scarfed physical attackers, and Quagsire handles the setup physical attackers

Wall breaker threats: NP Togekiss, Honchkrow, mixed Mienshao

Synergy: Cobalion and Mienshao are great teammates for this wall core as they handle most of the wall breakers that threaten the break through your defenses

JayHankEdLyon · Jul 9th, 2012, 3:04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat A Fhaol Bhig

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Calm
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
--Scald
--Stealth Rock
--Roar
--Toxic / Ice Beam

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Bold
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
--Thunderbolt
--HP Ice
--Roost
--Toxic / Roar

Empoleon has a great specially defensive set, and Zapdos has a great physically defensive set. Together, they have fantastic synergy. Zapdos can take the ground, fighting, and electric attacks aimed at Empoleon, and Empoleon can take the Ice and Rock attacks aimed at Zapdos. Empoleon has Stealth Rock, which is good because there is a lot of switching involved with this combo. As a bonus, scald can burn physical attackers that might put the hurt into Zapdos.

While this sounds great on paper, any offensive pokemon with EdgeQuake (or Fighting/Rock) is going to give you some trouble.

For a third member to this core (or a replacement for Zapdos if you don't have room) I would suggest Weezing. Immunity to ground, resistance to fighting without a rock weakness. Capable of spreading more status, clearing out boosts with haze or clear smog and healing/damaging with Pain Split. Specific threats Weezing deals with better than Zapdos include Machamp, Swampert, Heracross, Snorlax, Durant, Mienshao and Scrafty.

A spinner is also mandatory for this to function as a core; not so with Weezing replacing Zapdos.

Machineae · Jul 9th, 2012, 3:38:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ivymo16

Here is a core that I think works well in UU

Quagsire
impish; 252 hp, 252 def; unaware; leftovers, toxic, encore, recover, earthquake

Porygon 2
calm; 252 hp, 252 sp.d; trace; eviolite; toxic, recover, ice beam, and tbolt

Gligar
impish; 252 hp 252 def; immunity; eviolite; toxic, roost, earthquake, u-turn/stealth rock

Coverage: Porygon 2 handles the special threats in uu, Gligar handles the scarfed physical attackers, and Quagsire handles the setup physical attackers

Wall breaker threats: NP Togekiss, Honchkrow, mixed Mienshao

Synergy: Cobalion and Mienshao are great teammates for this wall core as they handle most of the wall breakers that threaten the break through your defenses

With the exception of Gligar, Toxic ruins your core. Typically if you're going to have a three poke defensive core you want them to have a way to circumvent status.

TSTEF · Jul 9th, 2012, 6:37:24 PM

Alright, Updating OP.

I'm adding Bro+Amoonguss+Arcanine as a Mixed core, seeing as Arcanine has an offensive set and Bro is specs.

I'll Add Bisharp+mismagius as an Offesive core (duh).

For the Zapdos+Empoleon core, I like JayHankEdLyon's suggestion to add something to help with EdgeQuake, But I dont think Weezing is the way to go. I'm not saying its a bad pokemon, I just don't think it gets enough UU usage to be viable. Ill add the core as it was originally posted and leave a note about the EdgeQuake weakness. Maybe there's something with more usage that works well in this slot that someone will suggest. If not, I'll put in Weezing.

For the Quag+P2+Gligar Core, Wouldn't something like Bronzong or Cobalion work better than Quagsire? It would help with the Toxic problem, and allow Gligar to run U-turn (In the case of Bronzong).

Silvershadow234 · Jul 10th, 2012, 2:41:53 AM

I think Quagsire is used to stop set-up sweepers like Kingdra and DD Scrafty that give Gligar trouble. Bronzong would only make it worse-he can'd do anything to SubDD Scrafty-and then he'll get swept. Cobalion lacks reliable recovery so he won't work that well either.

Jul 7th, 2012, 2:05:40 AM	#1
TSTEF Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 73	UU Cores UU Core Collection Thread So, after recently having my other thread locked, I came up with a new thread that I thought would be a good contribution to the UU community. Since I'm assuming there will also be a decent amount of begginers in every tier, or just people that aren't good at team building, I thought that a place to collect the best cores in the tier would be a good resource. Since i myself am not the best team builder (yet), I thought a thread like this would help me as well as the rest of UU. Anyway, one of the biggest aspects to team building is cores, having a stable core, be it offensive, defensive, or mixed. Defensive cores are designed to counter a wide range of offensive threats, while offensive cores are designed to take out a wide range of defensive threats. A core consists of 2-3 Pokemon, that work well together, be it offensively, defensively, or both, and can work together to take out a majority of the tier. Armed with a collection of cores, team building should become quite a bit easier. Also, NO CORE IS PERFECT, AND CAN TAKE OUT EVERY SINGLE THREAT IN THE TIER. EVERY CORE WILL HAVE COUNTERS, SO DON'T SAY A CORE "SUCKS" BECAUSE IT IS BROKEN BY A FEW THINGS. So to help with this, post with a core that you have found to work well in the current metagame. (yes, I know the new B2W2 metagame is quite different) Pokemon names, movesets, EV spreads, etc. should be included, and a short description of how the cores/Pokemon in them function. I will compile the cores in the OP to make for a quick and easy way to view them. With all that said, post away! Offensive Zoroark+Heracross ... Zoroark @ Life Orb Ability: Illusion EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk) - Nasty Plot - Dark Pulse - Flamethrower - Grass Knot Heracross @ Choice Scarf Ability: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA) - Close Combat - Megahorn - Stone Edge - Pursuit This is a recently buffed core, with Heracross gaining his dream world ability, Moxie. The trick to this core is having Heracross last in your party, so Zoroark will be disguised as it. Disguised as Heracross, Zoroark can lure in Ghost-types and smash them with dark pulse, and if the real Heracross is in, special walls like Snorlax might come in thinking it's Zoroark in disguise. These two have good types synergy as well, even after the disguise is broken. Mismagius+Bisharp ... Bisharp @ Life Orb Adamant 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe --Swords Dance --Sucker Punch --Iron Head --Brick Break Mismagius @ Life Orb Timid 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe --Substitute --Nasty Plot --Shadow Ball --Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Fighting This is an offesnsive core consisting of two boosting sweepers. One hits from the special side while the other hits from the Physical side. Together, Bisharp and Mismagius have great type synergy, with the only weakness not resisted by the other being Fire. Carrying Thunderbolt, Mismagius can hit bulky waters hard that would otherwise give this core trouble, but HP Fighting will Provide better Coverage. Moltres+Krookodile ... Moltres @ Leftovers/ Life Orb Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Fire Blast - Air Slash/ Hurricane - Hidden Power [Grass] - Roost/ Flame Charge Krookodile (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Moxie EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)/ Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SAtk) - Earthquake - Crunch - Pursuit - Stone Edge/ Super Power With near unresisted coverage, these two powerhouses make for a great offensive core. Both hit very hard with no setup, and work together to hit both sides of the attacking spectrum. with all of that, moltres is very good at clearing initial threats, while Krook is very good at cleaning up late game with Moxie. Darmanitan+Roserade+Kingdra ... Darmanitan @ Life Orb Trait: Sheer Force EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Jolly - Flare Blitz - U-turn - Earthquake - Superpower Roserade @ Life Orb Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid / Modest - Sleep Powder - Leaf Storm - Sludge Bomb - Rest / Synthesis Kingdra @ Chesto Berry/Lum Berry Trait: Swift Swim EVs: 168 HP / 164 Atk / 4 SpD / 172 Spe Adamant - Rest - Dragon Dance - Outrage - Waterfall With great FWG offensive coverage, this core will break through all kinds of walls. LO Flare Blitz from Darm will destroy everything but Bulky Waters, Fire-types and Rhyperior. Roserade hits all of those hard from the special side other than Fires. Kingdra can help clean up late game, defeats choice scarfers after a boost (especially other Darmanitan, Victini and Chandelure), and appreciates Steels and Bulky Waters being removed by the other two members of the core. Defensive Roserade+Snorlax+Slowbro ... Roserade @ Leftovers Trait: Natural Cure EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk) - Giga Drain - Sludge Bomb - Rest - Spikes Slowbro @ Leftovers Trait: Regenerator EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 SpA Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Scald - Psyshock - Slack Off - Calm Mind Snorlax @ Leftovers Trait: Thick Fat EVs: 208 HP / 124 Def / 176 SpD Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA) - Body Slam - Whirlwind - Rest - Sleep Talk I found this one on the UU metagame trends article in the Smog. This core is very sound typing wise, and covers both special (Snorlax and Roserade) and physical (Slowbro) well. Roserade will find many opportunities to set up spikes, and start racking up damage. Snorlax having whirlwind also helps to rack up damage. Gligar+Snorlax ... Gligar @ Eviolite Ability: Immunity EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Roost - Earthquake - U-Turn Snorlax @ Leftovers Ability: Thick Fat EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA) - Body Slam - Whirlwind - Rest - Sleep Talk Snorlax, only has one weakness, Fighting, which Gligar will take with ease, and Thick Fat Snorlax resists the Ice-type attacks that Gligar hates. Snorlax has incredible special bulk, while Gligar has great physical bulk. Together, they can take attacks from both sides of the spectrum, and all the types that come with. As a bonus, Gligar provides rocks, and Snorlax provides Whirlwind to rack up switch damage. Empoleon+Zapdos ... Empoleon @ Leftovers Calm 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef --Scald --Stealth Rock --Roar --Toxic / Ice Beam Zapdos @ Leftovers Bold 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk --Thunderbolt --Hidden Power Ice --Roost --Toxic / Roar This is a defensive core that excels in synergy Empoleon resists all of Zapdos' weaknesses, while Zapdos will do the same for Empoleon. Empoleon is great on the specially defensive side while Zapdos is very good on the physically defensive side. Emppoleon provides rocks, which is an added bonus when you take into account the numerous switches that this core can force. Note that with this core, it is necessary to have something that can take on EdgeQuake, as the core is weak to it. Umbreon+Dusclops* ... Umbreon @ Leftovers Trait: Synchronize EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def Careful Nature - Wish - Heal Bell - Toxic/Payback - Protect Dusclops @ Eviolite Trait: Pressure EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef Impish Nature - Seismic Toss - Will-O-Wisp - Sleep Talk - Rest This defensive core is great for checking many of the threats in the current metagame. This core has pretty decent type synergy, and they have great defenses on the special and physical sides, respectively. Many of the choice users in the tier, plus some boosting sweepers, are checked by this core. Mixed/Other Slowbro+Amoonguss+Arcanine ... Slowbro @ Choice Specs Regenerator Bold 252HP/252 Def/4SpAtk -Scald -Slack Off -Psyshock -Trick Amoonguss @ Lefties Regenerator Calm 252HP/4Def/252SpDef -Spore -Toxic -Clear Smog -Synthesis Arcanine @ Life Orb Flash Fire Jolly 252 Atk/4spDef/252 Spe -Flare Blitz -Extreme speed -Crunch -Morning Sun This is what i would call a rather odd core (no offense), but none the less still a solid one. It has typical Fire/Water/Grass synergy with a few added twists. Offensive Arcanine is not only bulky as hell, but it can also dish out the pain while healing off with morning sun. Slowbro with TrickSpecs is also an odd choice, bat again provides another bulky attacker to the core. Amoonguss finishes of the synergy and anchors the core defensively, providing Spore support Last edited by TSTEF; Jul 16th, 2012 at 12:09:25 AM. Reason: New Core

Jul 7th, 2012, 10:59:31 PM	#3
TSTEF Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 73	Seems like a really solid core, OP updated. __________________ Sigs are too mainstream

Jul 8th, 2012, 3:11:20 PM	#4
Iridium Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 43	I had a defensive core of alomomola + p2 (specially defensive) for my first team on pokemon showdown (nyaminyan). only lost one match out of 17. P2 also had psych up to beat CM raikou (and it seemed to work lol) btw, the one loss would have been easily avoided by switching to alomomola instead of banking on being able to finish off his last guy in one turn with darm instead of the several it would have taken playing it safe Last edited by Iridium; Jul 8th, 2012 at 3:31:28 PM.

Jul 8th, 2012, 4:32:00 PM	#5
~~superbadd~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 357	You call those cores? They suck. Mixed meinshao defeats that snorlax and gligar core. And Heracross beats that first core. How about we have cores that can't be destroyed by one pokemon, right? Cores aren't made to cover just physical/special aspects but should have type synergy that allows each pokemon to take on a specific threat the other two can't. While simultaneously providing support for its core members and its team in general. When all core pokemon are weak to one poke that's very poor team building. Last edited by superbadd; Jul 8th, 2012 at 4:45:54 PM.

Jul 8th, 2012, 6:20:16 PM	#9
*kokoloko winter is coming Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,328	^ JayHankEdLyon's post is unacceptable due to it's tone, but he is correct and the post he was replying to was absurd, so I'm letting it stand. However, everybody needs to calm down or I'll start modding and whatnot. This thread has potential, don't get into petty arguments and ruin it. __________________

Jul 7th, 2012, 2:18:24 AM	#2
JayHankEdLyon Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 26	Gligar @ Eviolite Ability: Immunity EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Roost - Earthquake - U-Turn Snorlax @ Leftovers Ability: Thick Fat EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA) - Body Slam - Whirlwind - Rest - Sleep Talk Snorlax and Gligar are an amazing defensive core and my personal favorite. Snorlax has only one weakness, the usually physical Fighting, which Gligar walls with ease (lol Heracross). Meanwhile with Thick Fat, Snorlax resists the Ice attacks that Gligar so hates. Their stats on the defensive and special defensive sides are at the top of their game (Snorlax is unquestionably the best special wall in UU, while Gligar is certainly up there if not the very best on the physical end). Gligar can set up rocks while Snorlax whirlwinds. Gligar's presence makes Raikou and Zapdos more likely to use HP Ice out of worry, which Snorlax appreciates (and choice varieties that DO get stuck on a Thunderbolt for Snorlax nets a free Gligar switch.) Gligar also has Baton Pass, which can potentially used to buff up dear Snorlax. Watch out guys, Agililax is here to wreck your shit. They are simply the best there is.

Jul 8th, 2012, 7:18:06 PM	#10
LucaroarkZ Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,106 San Diego, CA	No offensive cores in the OP yet? Here's a good one: Zoroark @ Life Orb Ability: Illusion EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk) - Nasty Plot - Dark Pulse - Flamethrower - Grass Knot Heracross @ Choice Scarf Ability: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA) - Close Combat - Megahorn - Stone Edge - Pursuit The Zoroark + Heracross combo in UU has always been good stuff, but recently it gained a buff with the release of Moxie Heracross. The theory behind the core is actually very simple: Heracross is in the last party spot, meaning Zoroark will come out disguised as it. This is a good combination because entry hazards damage will not give away Zoroark's disguise and due to the defensive synergy as well. Heracross resists Bug and Fighting while Zoroark is immune to Psychic. However, in actual practice it is a little more tricky to use as Zoroark doesn't copy the remaining HP percentage of the Pokemon it is disguised as, but using Wish supporters can help with this problem. Snorlax may attempt to block Zoroark's sweep, while Heracross can threaten it with Close Combat in order to make it easier for Zoroark to sweep with Nasty Plot. In addition to this, Zoroark, while disguised as Heracross, can lure in Ghost-types such as Dusclops and Mismagius who may be greedy enough to attempt to switch in on Close Combat and hit them with Dark Pulse, making it easier for Heracross to revenge kill or pull off a late-game sweep. __________________ "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman I am not lucaroark on Pokemon Showdown. I'm always on PS as Adamant Zoroark.

Jul 8th, 2012, 7:26:35 PM	#12
jrrrrrrr wubwubwub Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,119 wubwubwub	^Almost none of those things you listed are ever seen. Except Mienshao, who just popped into the tier. And why are you saying that Gligar sucks because it can't counter Weavile, Kingdra and Azumarill? What Ground-type can? Gligar walls Fighting, Ground and Flygon. Your post is like saying Porygon2 sucks because it can't counter Machamp. __________________ NIGMAN: JRRRR IS A SHIT NIGMAN: HO ESLE THINK IT??

Jul 8th, 2012, 7:29:30 PM	#13
Ginku my Angel's on Angel dust Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 559	actually most of those are pretty common edit since jrrrrr added content: I don't necessarily agree that gligar is a bad wall, but pretty much all of the mons listed are viable threats and shouldn't be forgotten when looking for one. It's also worth noting that gligar will have to roost a lot because it needs to be at nearly full hp to counter things like CB flygon. Last edited by Ginku; Jul 8th, 2012 at 7:40:48 PM. Reason: b_s stealth edits

Jul 8th, 2012, 7:55:34 PM	#15
*kokoloko winter is coming Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,328	Didn't I just say don't let petty arguments ruin this thread? I don't wanna delete the above posts because there's actually some useful content in them, but stop with the shit-slinging or I'll start modding. @superbadd - NP Heal Bell Togekiss shits on your core, btw. As does Spikes Roserade + offense... and Taunt + Toxic Crobat... and pretty much any stallbreaker. Sorry to break it to you but there's no perfect core. Stop acting like there is. __________________

Jul 8th, 2012, 8:14:54 PM	#16
TSTEF Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 73	Alright, well I guess I have to make it clear in the OP that no core is perfect. I thought I did say that cores can take out a majority of the tier, but not all of it, but I guess I wasn't clear enough. Zoro+Heracross is a good one, I'll add that in. I didn't find any other cores through the arguing, but if there was, feel free to repost it. Edit: Also, Remember that Cores are 2-3 pokemon. Not all of them have to be just 2, although it does free up that extra team slot for something else. __________________ Sigs are too mainstream Last edited by TSTEF; Jul 8th, 2012 at 8:54:43 PM.

Jul 9th, 2012, 10:40:29 AM	#19
czechm8 Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 237 United States	I've been using a FWG core of Slowbro, Amoonguss, and Arcanine. However, it has a few twists. EDIT: I guess this is more of a mixed core than a truly defensive one. Slowbro @ Choice Specs Regenerator Bold 252HP 252 Def 4SpAtk Scald Slack Off Psyshock Trick A normal defensive slowbro but where status or a coverage move would normally go I run trick. This allows it to do a little more damage to opponents pokemon initially. Then when they least expect it (normally switching to something that counters slowbro) BAM they were just crippled with some shiny new specs. If he gets lefties then he plays like a normal slowbro; if he gets a life orb or choice item he can trick it to another poke later in the match. Amoonguss @ Lefties Regenerator Calm 252HP 4SpAtk 252SpDef Spore Toxic Clear Smog Synthesis Normal Amoonguss set, has pretty good synergy with Slowbro; especially since both are essentially immune to hazards thanks to their nifty abilities. Amoonguss also absorbs toxic spikes which can greatly hinder slowbro's walling abilities. Clear Smog prevents him from becoming set up fodder. Arcanine @ Life Orb Flash Fire Jolly 252 Atk 4spdef 252 Spe Flare Blitz Extreme speed Crunch Morning Sun Yes I know this is an offensive Nine in a defensive core. His main purpose is to stop chandalure from ripping are bro and shroom. He can take a shadow ball, is immune to fireblast and deals heavy damage back with crunch. Extreme speed picks off speedy things that need to die, and morning sun provides mostly reliable recovery. __________________ SS FC: 3439 0156 2549 White FC:1549 5311 6603 Last edited by czechm8; Jul 9th, 2012 at 1:07:47 PM.

Jul 9th, 2012, 10:48:29 AM	#20
A Fhaol Bhig Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 163	Oh my god people calm down. superbadd may have gone over the top in trying to denounce your cores, but you are being no better then him when you respond with a negative tone back at him. Just concentrate on proving why your core is viable, maybe explain what your team is like and why the core works for you, and would work for other teams. Concentrate on what people are saying about the cores, not their petty insults. Empoleon @ Leftovers Calm 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef --Scald --Stealth Rock --Roar --Toxic / Ice Beam Zapdos @ Leftovers Bold 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk --Thunderbolt --HP Ice --Roost --Toxic / Roar Empoleon has a great specially defensive set, and Zapdos has a great physically defensive set. Together, they have fantastic synergy. Zapdos can take the ground, fighting, and electric attacks aimed at Empoleon, and Empoleon can take the Ice and Rock attacks aimed at Zapdos. Empoleon has Stealth Rock, which is good because there is a lot of switching involved with this combo. As a bonus, scald can burn physical attackers that might put the hurt into Zapdos. Also I'd like to quote: Bisharp @ Life Orb Adamant 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe --Swords Dance --Sucker Punch --Iron Head --Brick Break Mismagius @ Life Orb Timid 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe --Substitute --Nasty Plot --Shadow Ball --Thunderbolt / HP Fighting Two boosting sweepers, one physical and one special. The two work so well together mostly because one can safely switch in and force out all of the counters of the other. For example, although SubPlot Missy can't handle Chansey, Bisharp can switch in and use the free turn of set up. And likewise, Mismagius can take out any Hitmontop facing Bisharp (worrying about Hitmontop's Sucker Punch? Use it as set up bait!). They cover each others' weaknesses almost perfectly (Mismagius is neutral to Fire), meaning that Mismagius can take all fighting or ground attacks (particularly HJKs), and Bisharp can take any ghost or dark attacks. Mismagius can run Thunderbolt to plow through some bulky waters that give Bisharp trouble, but HP Fighting has better coverage. __________________ tá grain gheal an tsamhraidh ag damhsa, Siúil liomsa, a chara dhil, suas fà na hardàin, Ar thuras na hailleàcht’ is an ghileacht amuigh, A fhaol bhig… Little wolf… Tá tú ag imeacht ar shlí na fírinne

Jul 9th, 2012, 10:50:00 AM	#21
Ivymo16 Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 3	Here is a core that I think works well in UU Quagsire impish; 252 hp, 252 def; unaware; leftovers, toxic, encore, recover, earthquake Porygon 2 calm; 252 hp, 252 sp.d; trace; eviolite; toxic, recover, ice beam, and tbolt Gligar impish; 252 hp 252 def; immunity; eviolite; toxic, roost, earthquake, u-turn/stealth rock Coverage: Porygon 2 handles the special threats in uu, Gligar handles the scarfed physical attackers, and Quagsire handles the setup physical attackers Wall breaker threats: NP Togekiss, Honchkrow, mixed Mienshao Synergy: Cobalion and Mienshao are great teammates for this wall core as they handle most of the wall breakers that threaten the break through your defenses __________________ White fc (battling)- 4684 9586 7733 My rules: Standard rules, no hax items, no d/c, no unreleased dream world abilities Last edited by Ivymo16; Jul 9th, 2012 at 11:06:58 AM.

Jul 9th, 2012, 6:37:24 PM	#24
TSTEF Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 73	Alright, Updating OP. I'm adding Bro+Amoonguss+Arcanine as a Mixed core, seeing as Arcanine has an offensive set and Bro is specs. I'll Add Bisharp+mismagius as an Offesive core (duh). For the Zapdos+Empoleon core, I like JayHankEdLyon's suggestion to add something to help with EdgeQuake, But I dont think Weezing is the way to go. I'm not saying its a bad pokemon, I just don't think it gets enough UU usage to be viable. Ill add the core as it was originally posted and leave a note about the EdgeQuake weakness. Maybe there's something with more usage that works well in this slot that someone will suggest. If not, I'll put in Weezing. For the Quag+P2+Gligar Core, Wouldn't something like Bronzong or Cobalion work better than Quagsire? It would help with the Toxic problem, and allow Gligar to run U-turn (In the case of Bronzong). __________________ Sigs are too mainstream Last edited by TSTEF; Jul 9th, 2012 at 10:45:58 PM.

Jul 10th, 2012, 2:41:53 AM	#25
Silvershadow234 is MANLY Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 427 England	I think Quagsire is used to stop set-up sweepers like Kingdra and DD Scrafty that give Gligar trouble. Bronzong would only make it worse-he can'd do anything to SubDD Scrafty-and then he'll get swept. Cobalion lacks reliable recovery so he won't work that well either.