Gliscor (BW2 Revamp) (QC 0/3)

I'm gonna give a huge shout out to Max212. He PM'd me his skeleton quite some time ago. I had written a good chunk of mine, but I ended up liking his much more than mine, so I'd like to model this analysis after his work. I've put a bunch of tweaks in myself and I'll be pushing this through QC and GP, but just know that Max212 helped a lot in getting this started.

Status: Quality Control

QC Approvals (0/3):
GP Approvals (0/2):



Don't ban Sand Veil pls

[Overview]

• One of the best physical walls in OU thanks to its resistances and high defense.
• Can run Stealth Rock and Roost along with Poison Heal thanks to the new move tutors.
• Poison Heal ability gives it immunity to status.
• Has pretty good offensive capabilities despite being known as a defensive wall.
• Still has to deal with some 4MSS, especially with SR and Roost now in the mix.
• Huge usage of Rain teams and special attackers give Gliscor trouble. However, the ability to wall top-tier threats such as Terrakion, Lucario, and Conkeldurr will forever earn it a spot as one of the most useful Pokemon in OU.

[SET]
name: Substitute
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Protect / Roost
move 4: Toxic / Taunt / Ice Fang
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• The Good ol' Toxic Stall set is back to put smiles on peoples faces.
• Able to stall out a myriad of Pokemon by using Sub+Protect/Roost without losing a smidgen of health, along with Toxic.
• Earthquake is the main STAB option to prevent it from being Taunt bait and to provide some type of offense.
• Protect is usually preferred over Roost to aid with scouting and to guarantee your Toxic Orb activates. Roost also removes Gliscors vital Flying typing for a turn. However, Roost may be used for a never-ending cycle of healing.
• The final slot is best served by Toxic, to allow Gliscor to toxic stall Pokemon such as Blissey, Chansey, Rotom-W, etc. Taunt can be used to help shut down stall and set-up Pokemon such as Swords Dance Scizor and Bulk Up Conkeldurr, who otherwise use Gliscor as set up fodder. Ice Fang is a viable option to hit things that Earthquake can't touch, such as Dragons and other Gliscor.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Speed EVs allow you to out speed all Heatran except Choice Scarf sets, Neutral-nature Lucario, Jolly Mamoswine and Adamant Breloom.
• The rest of the EVs are put into HP and Defense to maximize Gliscors Physical Bulk.
• Speed can be adjusted to out speed Pokemon such as all Rotom except scarf variants. A spread of 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe with a Jolly nature is the best alternate spread for that. If out speeding Jolly Mamoswine isn't necessary, a slightly different spread of 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe with an Impish nature can be used.
• Aerial Ace can be used in the last slot to destroy Breloom, one of the few physical threats than can beat Gliscor. It is also useful for providing good damage on Amoonguss.
• Toxic Spikes support is Gliscors best friend. Forretress, Tentacruel, and Roserade are excellent teammates that can perform this role.
• Tyranitar and Hippowdon, Pokemon with the Sand Stream ability are staple partners along with Gliscor. They help put a damper on opposing weather teams and provide extra residual damage, aiding in Gliscors stalling rampage. Tyranitar is an excellent partner because of it's massive special defense. Gliscor takes the physical blows and most importantly, the deadly Fighting attacks aimed at Tyranitar.
• Steel types immune to Earthquake completely shut down this set. Air Balloon Heatran is unaffected by anything this set does and can hit back with Hidden Power Ice or STAB Fire Blast. Although not commonly seen in OU, Bronzong will beat this set and can hit hard with Hidden Power Ice. Skarmory walls this set and can set up hazards in it's face, but can not really do much back, especially if Gliscor packs Taunt.
• Taunt users completely shut down this set. Opposing Gliscor also stop this set cold, but can do nothing back unless they carry Ice Fang.
• Pokemon that out speed Gliscor and hit on the special side will almost always come out on top.
• Other good team mates that should be considered will need to focus on removing Pokemon that stop this set, and others that can take the special attacks aimed at Gliscor. Rotom-W is one of the best ways to deal with mentioned threats such as Skarmory and Air Balloon Heatran. Blissey can take all special attacks coming towards Gliscor, and Gliscor can take almost any physical attacks aimed at Blissey.

[SET]
name: AcroBat
move 1: Acrobatics
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Substitute / Agility
item: Flying Gem
ability: Sand Veil
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

• Abuses the haxxiness of Sand Veil. Less recovery than with Poison Heal, but hax makes it all better.
• Base 95 speed and good attack is good enough to get the job done. Fish for the miss, SD, and go to town.
• Great STABs; Flying Gem helps pack a punch on the first hit with Acrobatics.
• Earthquake is Gliscors strongest STAB option for this set, providing excellent coverage and power.
• Swords Dance is preferred move for busting through its counters, but Agility is a viable option against offensive teams.
• Despite having decent offensive options, it still lacks power. Sand Veil abuse is the main sell of this set; Sand support is imperative.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Probably should list those calcs on the existing analysis; they're good.
• Can push through Rotom-W, which is pretty unique for a Gliscor set.
• Beats most of its bulky waters with a 2HKO, including Vaporeon, Slowbro, and defensive Gliscor.
• Easily revenge killed if Agility isn't used.
• Magnezone is still a good team mate because it can trap Skarmory and Bronzong, as well as having a powerful STAB Thunderbolt to hit bulky waters.

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Aerial Ace / Stone Edge / Ice Fang
move 4: Roost / Agility
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Jolly
evs: 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• This set capitalizes on Gliscors offensive capabilities while still retaining good bulk and reliable recovery.
• Base 95 speed and attack is very good for such a bulky physical wall.
• Similar to the old Swords Dance set used in 4th gen, but with immunity to status and double leftovers recovery.
• Gliscor has 2 of the best STABs in the metagame, so a set that abuses this advantage is a given.
• Swords Dance is the main move of this set, which allows quick boosting of attack to sky high levels.
• Earthquake is Gliscors strongest STAB option for this set, providing excellent coverage and power.
• The 3rd slot can contain any desired coverage move to hit what Earthquake can not. Aerial Ace is the main option for this slot, since Flying STAB is one of the best in the metagame and it allows Gliscor to hit Breloom and Amoongus hard, as well as many other fighting types that plague the tier.
• Stone Edge is another good option for the classic EdgeQuake combo.
• Ice Fang is handy for hitting other Gliscor and Dragons harder than normal.
• (Still being tested) For the final slot, Roost is listed as the main option to give Gliscor excellent recovery along with Poison Heal. Agility can be used over Roost to create a Double Dance set, since Poison Heal already provides reliable recovery.
• Despite having decent offensive options, it still lacks power compared to other physical powerhouses such as Terrakion. The main selling point of this set is it's ability to tank hits better than other physical sweepers and good recovery options. This set should be used mainly to clean up weakened teams, not punch holes early game.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• HP EVs give Gliscor an odd HP number, providing maximum Poison Heal recovery.
• Speed EVs allow Gliscor to outspeed all base 90 Pokemon, such as Roserade and Jolly Lucario by one point.
• Alternate EV spreads can be used with this set, which include bulkier and more offensive variants. For a bulky Swords Dance sweeper, a set of 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe with an Impish nature can be used. People wishing for a more offensively oriented set can try a spread of 40 HP / 216 Atk / 252 Spe with a Jolly nature.
• Skarmory completely walls this set and can phaze out Gliscor, thus removing all of the stat boosts.
• Bulky Waters such as Slowbro, Vaporeon, and Rotom-W can usually take any hit and then strike back with their STAB Water attacks.
• Bronzong takes anything this set has and does massive damage with Hidden Power Ice.
• Easily revenge killed.
• Pokemon that can open up holes for Gliscor and remove it's checks and counters are mandatory for this set to work. Tyranitar is excellent for this because it can Pursuit trap Latios and other speedy special attackers that can otherwise end Gliscors life. Rotom-W can deal massive damage to bulky waters and takes the Ice Beams and Surfs aimed and Gliscor.
• Magnezone is a good team mate because it can trap Skarmory and Bronzong, as well as having a powerful STAB Thunderbolt to hit bulky waters.
• Once the battlefield has been prepared for this threat to sweep, it's gg.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Taunt / Toxic
move 3: Toxic / Ice Fang / Stealth Rock
move 4: Roost / Protect
item: Toxic Orb
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• As one of the best physical walls in OU, this set walls some of the biggest threats around.
• Similar to the old defensive set, but the availability of Stealth Rock and Roost has given Gliscor more options and versatility.
• Typing provides handy immunities to Electric and Ground type attacks, as well as resistances to Fighting and Bug.
• Useful if you need a defensive pivot or if you want to shut down stall teams.
• Earthquake is the usual STAB option available.
• Taunt is for shutting down stall and set-up sweepers that would use Gliscor as set-up fodder. It also stops Pokemon like Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn from setting up hazards.
• The 3rd slot can be decided depending on what you need. Gliscor is a very reliable user of Stealth Rock if you need a Pokemon to set them up. Toxic helps provide residual damage and helps break down opposing walls and sweepers. Without Ice Fang, Gliscor is unable to touch Dragons and other Flying types.
• Roost is the first option to provide constant healing alongside with Poison Heal. Protect is also a viable option for scouting choiced attackers and guaranteeing Toxic Orb activation.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Speed EVs allow Gliscor to out speed max speed Adamant Tyranitar and Adamant Breloom. Alternately, you can bump Gliscors speed EVs up to 148 to outspeed Jolly Breloom and other base 70 Pokemon.
• Other remaining EVs are placed into HP and Defense to provide maximum physical bulk. 248 HP EVs to lessen Stealth Rock damage and for maximum Poison Heal Recovery.
• As always, speed EVs can be adjusted to outspeed different threats. A spread of 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 Spe with an Impish nature can be used to outspeed Adamant Lucario and all Heatran except scarf sets.
• Bulky Steel types like Skarmory can wall this set if Gliscor lacks Taunt. Bronzong walls this set and can retaliate with Hidden Power Ice.
• Bulky waters wall this set, but must be wary of a possible Toxic coming their way.
• Air Balloon Heatran, Latios, Keldeo and other special attackers will wreck Gliscor.
• Special walls such as Jirachi, Heatran, and Chansey are excellent team mates.
• Magnezone can trap troublesome steels such as Skarmory and also help deal with rain teams with it's STAB Thunderbolt. Both of which give Gliscor problems.
• Rotom-W helps against rain teams and most steel types that stop Gliscor cold.

Maybe mention in AC for the defensive set that one can run Gliscor with both protect and roost for amazing health recovery abilities, I know I have with decent success. Yes it has movepool huge problems (which is why it could never be in the main set at all), but it can be used to great effect with the right team support.

The SD set's EVs are inefficient. An EV spread of EVs: 156 HP / 136 Def / 216 Spd takes physical hits better, gets more poison heal recovery, and takes special hits better.

O.k, first things first, when you get a moment, add an OO + Checks and Counters section so we can look that over

-Add the Sub Pass set in the current Gliscor BW analysis.

name: Sub Pass
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Toxic / Taunt / Facade
item: Toxic Orb
nature: Impish
evs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe

You want SD, Agility, Ice Fang, Protect, and Roost all in AC I guess. You want partners that love getting passed a Substitute and synergise well with Gliscor (so that the substitute remains intact when it gets passed). To this end, mention pokemon that resist Water and Ice attacks as good partners. Something such as Keldeo wouldn't be a bad option. Also mention pokemon that are powerful, but frail (since Gliscor can pass them a sub to bring them in safely even if the sub breaks), as well as pokemon that can handle Rotom W, and like being given a substitute. Breloom for example, might not be a bad choice despite sharing an ice weakness.

-On Acrobat set

I personally would like Agility slashed with Swords Dance, instead of Substitute, since with Sand Veil, I would consider Substitute bring pretty important, I also doubt that Gliscor can pull off a double dance set a la Terrakion, unless someone can convice me otherwise...

-Swords Dance

Swords Dance should look like

move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Fang / Facade
move 4: Roost / Taunt

AA and SE both sorta suck, the above one is better anyway.

Change the EV spread, I don't think you need 216 Spe evs, since Jolly Lucario and Roserade I don't consider common. I personally would favour more bulk, since you can abuse Roost a little better, and you are a more effective "bulky SD tank" or something, which is your niche over other SDers like Landorus. Personally outrunning shit like Adamant Loom and stuff might be a good speed area to hit, but perfecting EV spreads sin't my strong suit, and other members of QC might want to weigh in here.

Shouldn't Taunt be the first slash for Sub Pass and Swords Dance? Taunt is pretty much essential for executing the Baton Pass and stallbreaking, respectively. For the latter, Poison Heal already keeps Gliscor healthy without the help of Roost anyways.

A good speed benchmark for SD Gliscor is Adamant Lucario or neutral base 100. Also the defensive EVs are messed up; since Gliscor's Defense >> HP, you need to invest in some HP to actually optimize its physical bulk. 172 HP / 148 Def / 188 Spe is what I suggest.

EDIT: Actually it would be nice if SD Gliscor is faster than Timid Deoxys-D to prevent it from setting up and start dancing. Here's the revised spread: 180 HP / 112 Def / 216 Spe

some things to consider for sd acrobat:

double dance is definitely legit and i'd say glis pulls off a double boost sweep (or even a dry agility sweep vs offense) more easily than tera because of his typing and def bulk so that he isn't susceptible to the ever-present bullet punch. moreover, due to the huge popularization of subsd towards late bw1, a lot of times especially in late game situations players are comfortable leaving in a poke that can only chip at you to prevent a sub, allowing you to just bust a load and double dance all over them.

on another note about the double dancer, i often played it with poison heal > sand veil simply because having a shutdown switch-in to subtoxic glis (which was everywhere mid to late bw) is ridiculously valuable to sand offense teams, and also sand veil is going to be pretty unreliable when you're not abusing sub to the point where you are basically just praying for hax. sure that 20% chance to pull a game out of your ass is nice, but the overall usefullness and playability of the poison heal double dancer is better imo (and to be clear i am referring to only the double dancer here as subsd can obviously switch in on eq and proceed to shit on subtoxic glis).

other small suggestions would be to slash adamant with emphasis towards using it with double dance (though iirc it provides some crucial kos for sd but cbf to check) as the extra power is definitely welcome when you are just going for the agility clean and acroglis can't use an item for consistent power like life orb. also consider ac mentioning all out offensive sdacro + taunt, which unlike defensive taunt sd still has the power to decimate semistallish teams while also being able to lure out and massively damage skarmory to open up for say a moxiemence sweep.

finally i think your slashes are good, subagility is god awful. ~also i dedicate this post to blightnigger who introduced me to the rawness of double dance bat.

Mention that ScarfTyranitar is a great partner for the Substitute set. You only said "Tyranitar for its ability to set up the Sandstorm" but actually, trapping Gengar, SubLatias, Reuniclus, Celebi is much more important than the Sandstorm.

Also, that set isn't very well known but its fantastic though : Earthquake / Taunt / Toxic / Protect with the Evs Spread of the Substitute set. That set works well against Stallteam since it beats Skarmory, Ferrothorn etc.

Facade / Ice Fang over Aerial Ace on the SD Set lol, I dont even get Aerial Ace. Anyway, Facade > Ice Fang imo and remove Aerial Ace. Mention it in AC.

Magnezone is a great partner for each Set, mention it for the Substitute Set because it traps Skarmory and Bronzong (even though Bronzong gets Earthquake it's almost 2HKO by Specs Volturn). ToxicProtect Heatran is also an amazing partner for the Taunt Toxic / Subsitute Set because it can poison threats such as Politoed and Rotom-W in addition of being able to abuse poison damage with Protect against Pokemon that Gliscor already poisoned. They both help eachother and Heatran also handles Skarm, Bronzong, Forretress@Hp Ice and Ferrothorn.

Also yah, mention Forretress@HP Ice as a nice counter if Gliscor doesnt carry Roost.

just curious, but if veil ends up illegal in OU (either combo'd with sand stream, or outright banned), what will happen to the subsd acrobatics set? this seems like an impending change. would subsd still be deemed viable if it could no longer set up on misses?

and i support ojama's taunt/toxic set although i wonder if there's a way to squeeze it into the slashes of another one. it's a classy combo for breaking down stall (my history with competitive pokemon leads me to think of scor as the quintessential stallbreaker so i always envision gliscor as running taunt... just me? =P) and gliscor does it very well. iirc it was called britscor back in the day? when i ran gliscor in BW1 it was, without a doubt, the set i liked the most.

SD Acro Gliscor is still lethal behind a Substitute. As badabing has elaborately written, it doesn't need Substitute or Sand Veil to be effective in the current metagame

1.) 244 HP EVs allow for maximum poison heal recovery, should be used over 248? I don't know, but just stating that to be clear.
2.) Sub set should have taunt slashed with protect, before roost. With taunt gliscor can prevent set up and beats forretress without HP ice. If you don't think it works, play ubers.
3.) sub set speed EVs are bad. Iirc, it needs 216 to beat adamant lucario. Jolly mamoswine can still do a huge a chunk with ice shard, OHKO with icicle crash, or OHKO with icicle spear. Toxic isn't that big of a deal to it and earthquake isn't either. Make it more defensive.
4.) AcroBat needs substitute to "fish" for misses, on things like rotom hydro pump. That should be the third slot and SD could be slashed in front of agility in the last slot.
5.) Mention pinch berries somewhere on acrobat, Liechi with agility often provides the necessary attack boost to sweep. That set RAPES sun btw, especially if it lacks very defensive members. Personally I might have given it a slash with flight gem. The only drawback is you need to be low to get the full acrobatics, so you can be revenged by priority. Also, you don't have the gem initially.
6.) adamant on acrobat slash?
7.) Swords dance EVs aren't bulky enough, stuff like Terrakion can 2HKO with ease. This totally defeats the Purpose of using gliscor over a more powerful SDer. Needs more bulk
8.) SD Coverage moves. stuff has been said above, Ice fang and facade are the only really good coverage moves. The other stuff could work if you are weak to volcarona or whatever, but hose moves are very situational and should not be the standard.
9.) agility has no place on SD IMO, I think the last slot should be protect/roost/taunt but the only thing I am concrete about is no agility.
10.) U-turn on last set maybe?
11.) Fling. It actually works and is powerful. Acrobatics is good for loom and the toxic orb cripples bulky waters and such. Maybe it is OO, but Don't recommend against it.

I think that is all

EDIT: I have dibs on this thing if Birkal stopped working on it, k?

I don't really understand the point of running 72 Speed EVs on the Defensive Gliscor. Those EVs get the jump on Jolly Tyranitar, which is entirely nonexistent unless T-tar is scarfed. I would honestly just raise the Speed EVs to 148 to beat Jolly Breloom, but if that cuts down on Gliscor's bulk too much then I'd lower the Speed EVs to 56 (beats Adamant Breloom).

Defensive Gliscor shouldn't run any Speed evs. Max speed Ttar is non-existent (Jolly or not), you can't do much to Breloom anyway so no point in outspeeding it, and that's it i think. Also there is no need to outspeed uninvested neutral base 100s anyways, because Celebi can either beat you or not regardless if he outspeeds (if he is offensive he outspeeds and ohkoes, and if it is defensive with HP Ice it beats you even if it slower), SpD Jirachi loses anyway, and this is it i think.

If you want to aim for a benchmark, outspeeding max Speed Timid Zone would probably be the best speed to hit, which needs 60 Speed evs.

Actually Alexwolf, outspeeding Breloom is pretty significant. There's a chance Techniloom will 2HKO you with unboosted Bullet Seed (but it must hit 5 times barring crits), while Ice Fang 2HKOes after Techniloom takes both one round of Stealth Rock damage and one round of Life Orb damage. Basically, it allows you to 2HKO before getting 2HKOed.

I'd also like to point out that max Speed Timid Magnezone is technically the same exact benchmark, seeing as Magnezone pretty much always runs HP Fire; This will drop Magnezone's speed down to 239, the same as Adamant Breloom.

I personally always like to outspeed Modest Heatran whenever I use Gliscor, and it only needs 112 EVs to do so, which isn't much of a step up from 72 (especially since realistically Gliscor's gonna be Speed creeping so you can even consider this Speed creep in disguise).

If you want to outspeed the Zone that can kill you, meaning the HP Ice one, you should run 241 Speed. So this and the fact that you can 2hko Breloom as you said with Ice Fang, means that 241 is the Speed to use (60 Spe evs).

C_l outspeeding Heatran is nice, but this isn't defensive Gliscor's goal. You should have other mons to handle the lava bitch. With only 148 Def evs, CB Terrakion has 66.41% to 2hko after SR. Not nice to be 2hkoed by a physical attacker you were supposed to counter right? In the other hand with 200 Def evs (60 Spe evs), you only have a 25% chance to get 2hkoed by the same attack, which is much more acceptable.

If you're using Magnezone, you're probably using it to beat Ferrothorn. As such, nobody uses HP Ice Magnezone. That's the point I'm trying to make.

There are people who are using HP Ice Zone, quite a bit of them actually. You need HP Fire to beat Ferro? Who said that? You just go to +6 with Charge Beam and blast through him easily, while having nearly unresisted coverage with HP Ice, which means that you can go for a mini sweep. HP Fire is nice to ohko Forretress and Ferrothorn without having them set-up hazards, but setting up to +6 and being able to hit mons such as Dnite and Gliscor is much more useful overall. Finally with HP Ice you can always revenge kill outraging dragons. And anyway are we seriously debating over 4 evs?

Analysis is looking good but I have a few suggestions.

Acrobat- Poison Heal isn't currently mentioned in OO and I think it should be for the reasons posted. Adamant OHKOing things like Slowbro and standard Rotom-W after SR should be pointed out with the calcs too. There was an awful thing I ran into on the BW1 ladder- Substitute / Roost / Swords Dance / Acrobatics- it beat my HP Ice Bronzong. It grabs even more time to play with Sand Veil and can be dangerous to a defensive team later in the game so I think it should be mentioned in OO.

Swords Dance- 40 HP / 252 Def / 216 spe is a spread I don't understand. If the goal is overall bulk with enough physical to wall what you need to you want 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe. Gliscor's defense stat is so high and bigger than it's HP so you're not even doing it favors if you only wanted physical bulk.

Defensive- Mention that EQ / Taunt / Toxic / Roost and EQ / Toxic / SR / Roost are the combinations to use out of all of those slashes. Britscor is what it is, great stallbreaker, not a "lesser known set" at all that can give defensive teams a massive headache (if they were more viable at least). If you choose SR you don't want Taunt over Toxic or Ice Fang because then you only have EQ to hurt things with- everything walls you. With Toxic + Roost + Poison Heal paired with STAB EQ you can set up SR and threaten pretty much anything. The SR user is going to be a pivot rather than a wall so you certainly don't want it being a free switch all game.

Lastly, a 252 HP spread is mentioned in the first set when all of the others are 248 HP, the choice needs to be consistent throughout the analysis. The choice doesn't matter at all and it can't be implied that it does.

244 HP is a Poison Heal #, so I think that should be the consistent # throughout the analysis..

The problem is, Gliscor is a bulky pokemon. There shouldn't be any mindset of "oh look I can invest less HP in my wall let's put it in some inferior stat!" 248 prevents SR damage so at least that's justifiable but trying to run as little HP as possible on Gliscor is not.

Something you may also want to mention for the SubToxic set is running Taunt / Toxic / Earthquake / Substitute. You do lose the ability to repeatedly check Terrakion, but to be honest the number of things Gliscor can counter from a defensive standpoint in this meta is dwindling (mainly thanks to Keldeo, Breloom and Mamoswine usurping previous offensive roles). You also can't stall without losing any health, but to be honest with Poison Heal Gliscor really doesn't need it. Not using Protect also avoids the usual situations where the opponent outpredicts you and switches to a different counter on your Protect.

So, what do you get in exchange? A much, much better stallbreaker, mainly. Skarmory is stalled out of Brave Birds and doesn't get free hazards, Hippowdon can't set up SR or get rid of you with Roar, Chansey can't switch in, use Heal Bell / Wish, then switch out. Other notables who Taunt helps against are Forretress, Reuniclus, RestTalk Gyara, Chesto Rotom-W, and quite a few more. I've used the set a lot and I've never really missed the extra health recovery more than I've appreciated all those benefits.

I can atest that Gliscor defensive does not need much speed at all and the tiny amount of bulk it gets if it dumps it is useful. Although running enough speed to outspeed most magnezones, heatrans, and modest politoeds is useful.

i agree with birkal that we shouldn't ban sand veil, its only 20%- but its too late now :(

Birkal is sadly no longer working on this so we need a new author. Post in the reservation thread if someone wants to take this over.

ginga, asterat called dibs on it in his post. just saying.