Proposed Ubers Revamp List (and discussion)

shrang

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So there are lots of Ubers analyses that need revamping or just updating because some of them are retardedly old. I've skimmed through every analysis we have in Ubers and wrote down what I think should be the changes (or no changes). I'd like everyone to discuss them, but if you want to take one and do the revamp/update (if the Pokemon needs one), go right ahead! If you want to reserve a Pokemon, I'd suggest you do it in the proper stickied reservation thread.

Top priority:
- Arceus-Ghost - Sweep has this
- Deoxys-S
- Kyogre
- Palkia
- Terrakion

High priority:
- Jirachi
- Scizor


Abomasnow:
- Fine

Arceus-Bug:
- More content required

Arceus-Dark:
- CM set may need more content

Arceus-Dragon:
- CM set needs more content
- I might put in a SubSD set

Arceus-Electric:
- Fine

Arceus-Fighting:
- Fine

Arceus-Fire:
- Good
- FUCK YEAH SD FIRECEUS

Arceus-Flying:
- Sub > Refresh on CM, IMO, which means the EVs will have to be changed accordingly (for 101 HP Subs)
- Revamp needed due to this


Arceus-Ghost:
- CM needs a lot more content, including a heavy AC mention (probably a whole paragraph) about an offensive spread
- Put Magic Coat in AC of support for lead set
- Test SD with Shadow Force + Shadow Claw, or just remove it entirely


Arceus-Grass:
- Support > CM - CM is kind of meh (Change set order)
- Needs more content

Arceus-Ground:
- Fine

Arceus-Ice:
- Fine

Arceus-Normal:
- Superimp has this

Arceus-Poison:
- Fine

Arceus-Psychic:
- lol

Arceus-Rock:
- Fine

Arceus-Steel:
- Tweak SD set
- Support set?

Arceus-Water:
- Have a look into the specially defensive CM sets (with a Fire attack) that some people have been using on their sun teams, but otherwise fine

Beartic:
- Fine

Bisharp:
- SCMS Low Kick > Brick Break, maybe have Blackglasses > Life Orb

Blaziken:
- Roar Blaziken? Otherwise fine

Blissey:
- Fine

Bronzong:
- Fine

Chansey:
- Fine

Cloyster:
- Test a Focus Sash offensive lead (I think it's pretty good), otherwise fine

Cresselia:
- Concision?

Darkrai:
- Fine

Deoxys-N:
- lol

Deoxys-A:
- Fine

Deoxys-D:
- Fine, test a fast Spiker

Deoxys-S:
- Revamp
- Furai has this
- Done

Dialga:
- Have a look at splitting Bulk Up mixed from Mixed Attacker, but otherwise fine

Ditto:
- lol

Dugtrio:
- Retest viability

Excadrill:
- Either add a support set or merge Stealth Rock into the bulky set somehow

Ferrothorn:
- Test viability of CB set

Forretress:
- Toxic > Toxic Spikes
- Add Custap set - Furai's doing this

Froslass:
- Fine

Garchomp:
- Look into merging SD into SubSD
- SubSD into first slot
- Test an offensive lead set with SR


Gastrodon:
- Update needed

Genesect:
- Test Rock Polish, otherwise fine

Giratina:
- Revamp needed- Mr.lol has this


Giratina-O:
- Update needed - Done


Gliscor:
- Fine - mention its difference from Lando-T

Gorebyss:
- Fine

Groudon:
- Update needed

Heatran:
- Small Update needed

Heracross:
- Test viability of CB
- Update needed


Hippowdon:
- Fine

Ho-oh:
- Fine

Hydreigon:
- Retest viability

Jirachi:
- Revamp needed - Melee Mewtwo has this

Jumpluff:
- Test SubSeed viability

Jynx:
- Fine

Kabutops:
- Fine

Kingdra:
- Fine

Kyogre:
- Revamp needed


Kyurem-B:
- Fine

Kyurem-W:
- Fine

Landorus:
- Fine

Landorus-T:
- Fine

Latias:
- Concision
- A mention of "Kyogre is an excellent Latias counter because Ice Beam will freeze or crit 100% of the time" would be nice

Latios:
- Fine

Lucario:
- Remove

Ludicolo:
- Fine

Lugia:
- Fine

Magnezone:
- Fine

Mamoswine:
- Fine

Manaphy:
- Fine

Metagross:
- Fine

Mew:
- Retest viability (at least test the lead set)

Mewtwo:
- I'm on this


Omastar:
- Fine

Palkia:
- Major revamp needed


Qwilfish:
- Revamp needed

Rayquaza:
- Fine

Reshiram:
- Fine

Sableye:
- Fine

Salamence:
- Fine

Scizor:
- Revamp needed


Shaymin-S:
- Update needed

Shedinja:
- Discuss viability

Shiftry:
- Update needed

Skarmory:
- Update needed

Smeargle:
- Fine

Tentacruel:
- Update needed

Terrakion:
- Revamp needed

Thundurus:
- Test a Swagger set
- Update needed

Thundurus-T:
- Fine

Tornadus:
- Test a Specs set with Sleep Talk (+1 attacks with priority when asleep is awesome)

Tornadus-T:
- Fine

Tyranitar:
- Needs a Sash set
- Update needed


Venusaur:
- Retest viability of SD
- Revamp needed

Victini:
- Fine

Whimsicott:
- Fine

Wobbuffet:
- Mention Custap or slash it

Xatu:
- Fine

Zekrom:
- Update needed
 
Last edited:
Cloyster:
- Fine
???
You said you would approve a Focus Sash Attacker set.
Most spinners are slow. So, for example, even if Forretress beats Giratina-O, I can just send out my Ho-Oh and force it out and prevent it from spinning.

Cloyster beats Deoxys-S leads, Deoxys-A leads, non-Thunderwave Support Dialga and Groudon. After a Shell Smash, it is faster than even Choice Scarf Terrakion. So nothing will prevent it from spinning (it beats every Spinblocker at +2). Against something like Kyogre or Chansey, Cloyster gets to lay down some Spikes.
 
If I may, I would like to reserve Palkia. I was just looking at it yesterday and thinking it needed a bit of updating. For example, the SubPunch set I never see anymore.
 
Nice, looking forward to Palkia revamp #Removescarfkia2013.

Also, a Cloyster set consisting of Icicle Spear, Spikes, Rapid Spin and Shell Smash (jolly max offensive EVs and focus sash) has served me well recently. It would be cool having that set in the analysis.
 
Scarf Palkia will stay in the analysis but the order will change.

I agree with this:
<@shrang> lustrous special > scarf > specs > specially based mixed > bulk up

Sash Shell Smash Cloyster deserves testing.
 
K then here are some:


Some replays might be bad, I don't know, I assembled them some time ago. I beat a couple of notable players with it, such as Yehom (winner of the Uber minitournament, using that very team he won with against me), Sweep (UPL player, best ladderer atm), Aless123 (another great player, although I might have haxed a bit- I think that very match was fair), Shrang and Melee Mewtwo.

Edit: Some replays show nice versatility from Cloysters side, generally getting up spikes against teams without a spinner, beating Deoxys-S leads and so forth. It even saves you sometimes with an emergency sweep against team that lacks priority.
 
I was wondering if Smeargle should get an update of sorts. What with evasion now unbanned in ubers it should be worth noting that it can pass minimizes to team mates. I have been using one to some success and got up to 1950+ on the current ladder with it. Though its shaky as thunder in rain and aura sphere make you obsolete for the match.
 

shrang

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K then here are some:


Some replays might be bad, I don't know, I assembled them some time ago. I beat a couple of notable players with it, such as Yehom (winner of the Uber minitournament, using that very team he won with against me), Sweep (UPL player, best ladderer atm), Aless123 (another great player, although I might have haxed a bit- I think that very match was fair), Shrang and Melee Mewtwo.

Edit: Some replays show nice versatility from Cloysters side, generally getting up spikes against teams without a spinner, beating Deoxys-S leads and so forth. It even saves you sometimes with an emergency sweep against team that lacks priority.
I personally like this set, but it really doesn't mean much unless you get a skeleton up so we can QC it and then write the set so it can go on-site, no?
 
I would like to reserve Arceus-Steel, if someone hasn't done so. I can add the support set as well. It's good for walling and neutering Extreme Killer.
 

Focus

Ubers Tester Extraordinaire
Shedinja:
- Discuss viability
lol

This analysis really needs to be updated or deleted. It just seems too niche to ever deserve a teamslot (except on a gimmick team?), and any decently-built team should be able to handle it without much difficulty. If someone new to Pokémon doesn't know what it's all about, the NU analysis for it should be enough to get the point across.

Some minor corrections: Future Sight and Doom Desire don't harm Shedinja as of gen 5, and Nightmare damage can also be added to the everything-that-kills-Shedinja list.
 

shrang

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I've talked to Theorymon as well about Shedinja, and we both agreed while Shedinja sucks balls, the sad fact for that thing is that Ubers is probably the tier that it does the best in. It has the most of a niche in Ubers where it has things that it can actually wall. That's kind of why I'm reluctant to remove it.

Implemented the minor corrections.
 
You could always do Double Team + Baton Pass Shedinja. It seems gimmicky at first, but it can pull in results on rain and sun-based teams, and Shedinja is a gimmick to begin with
 
I agree. I built a team using it following the suggestions of the analysis to the letter and it managed to do absolutely nothing in multiple battles. Opportunities for it to set up are scant thanks to how frail it is (especially if you are using Nasty Plot Thundurus-T). There is also barely any reason to use it in Ubers over Electric Arceus, Thundurus-I, and Zekrom besides 'lol choice-locked thunder kyogre' which Ice Beams it to oblivion anyway if the individual using it possesses the sense of vision and 'lol volt switch zekrom' in which case I suggest you read the Groudon analysis.
 
Hi! It's me again.

Dugtrio should probably not have an analysis at all. Substitute + Hone Claws + EQ + SE loses to anything that floats, such as Giratina-O, which is a very common and good Pokemon in the Ubers metagame. In addition, Scarf Zekrom is somewhat uncommon thanks to Genesect and a lot of the things that the analysis mentions Dugtrio can trap, like Specs Kyogre, Scarf Dialga, Scarf Palkia etc., are either garbage or rarely carry Thunder. Dugtrio is also extremely easy to play around by either double switching or noticing that the opponent has it and not clicking Thunder until it is gone.

Also the analysis looks like it was written back in BW1, which is (lol)worthy:

"However, with the advent of Black and White, Dugtrio was sent a gift from heaven in the form of Hone Claws."

Furthermore, I struggle to see why Kyurem-B has any sets besides Scarf listed. Band gets revenge killed too easily, Mixed is outclassed by Palkia and the main draw of Hone Claws is running a move that comes off an underwhelming 120 Special Attack with 4 Special Attack EVs. At least Scarf can act as a threatening revenge killer with manly Outrages.
 
Deleting Dugtrio right now. Let's pretend that never had an analysis on site.

252 Atk Earth Plate Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 242-288 (60 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

yea gtfo

I'll post about Kyurem-B tomorrow, Band might be just good enough to keep a set but it absolutely needs dual STAB, and it seems pretty meh. No Kyurem-B set is particularly good but Scarf + hazards on Sun offense is probably its best bet.
 

Manaphy

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Manaphy needs a revamp. Nobody probably cares about this besides me but I'm tired of looking at the old analysis and seeing some blatantly outdated things.
Changes that should be made IMO:
-Tail Glow should be the main set
-Wacan Berry should be the standard item on Tail Glow sets. Wacan just has immense utility because with it, no Scarfed Thunders/Bolt Strikes in the tier can OHKO Manaphy; it actually makes Manaphy an extremely good lure for these Pokemon. Leftovers is only marginally helpful when you can Rest at any time anyway, and Life Orb's power is nice but you don't really need it against stall and balanced teams anyway (which is what you use manaphy to destroy)
-Grass Knot seems a bit more useful than Ice Beam IMO (You can OHKO Scarf Kyogre and do a lot more damage to Palkia; against Zekrom you still do a ton of damage with Surf and OHKO with only a little bit of prior damage)
-80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe Timid should be the standard for Grass Knot sets, which is just enough to outspeed max Speed based 90's. You're not killing Rayquaza anyway so the rest might as well be dumped into bulk. 252 SpA / 252 Spe is fine for Ice Beam sets for outspeeding Rayquaza.
-Calm Mind set is totally fine.
 
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