CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 11 (Attacking Moves Poll)

Sunday · Jul 28, 2008

Pure Utility Pokemon

Aldaron/Magmortified said:
Description: There is a serious lack of Gravity, Rapid Spin, Wish, non Dark weak Trick Room, OU viable Heal Bell / Aromatherapy, Encore, Memento, Non Dark weak Perish Song, Psycho Shift, Safeguard, Magic Coat, Me First, Snatch, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Tailwind and Haze Pokemon in our lovely Metagame. I don't know what type, what stat distribution or even what kind of Pokemon would effectively use all those, but I want to build a utility Pokemon for the useful yet less used utility moves. If I had to narrow the field a bit, I would emphasize Tailwind, Gravity, non Dark weak Trick Room, Rapid Spin, Wish and Encore. The normal utility moves like Reflect and Light Screen go without saying.

Primary Typing: Poison
Secondary Typing: Ground
Style Bias: Mixed, Between -5 and -10 -- Slightly towards defence
Build Bias: Between 5 and 10 -- Slightly towards physical
Base Stat Rating: 300 to 419 -- Very Good
Base Stat Spread: 95 / 76 / 109 / 90 / 80 / 105 = 555 Speed Last.
Primary Ability: Persistant
Secondary Ability: Vital Spirit

Please fill out the following poll!

BOLD your answers.

Should the following moves be allowed to appear on movepool suggestions for our Pokemon? (Please note "yes" winning does not garuntee our Pokemon getting this move. Also you must answer all questions, and bold your answers.)
Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

X-Act said:
Attack Name: BlindingMire (or whatever you want to call it)
Type: Poison
Category: Special
Power Points: 5
Base Power: 50
Accuracy: 90
Battle Effect: Shoots sludge in the foe's eyes, temporarily blinding it, making it flee to end the battle (switches the opponent Pokemon in a trainer battle).
Priority: -6

Basically a Roar/Whirlwind that does damage before phazing.

I think this move keeps with the utility theme as well as being an attacking move. I kept PP to a minimum as I'm aware of the implications that such a move would invoke. Also I made BP be not so high, otherwise it would be broken, but not that low either. Being a Poison-type move makes it not very effective against at least half of a typical team anyway (remember: Steel, Ground, Rock, Poison, and Ghost types resist it). But maybe the Base Power should be modified? I made it not 100% accurate as it might miss hitting the foe's eyes (lol). And, of course, if you have a better name, feel free to make suggestions.

EDIT: Added priority. Maybe having low priority does not make it that broken, and Base Power can be improved?

tennisace · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

For reasons previously stated.

Tsukikage · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

No for everything except Cross Chop (voted No for Close Combat, but yes for Cross Chop, if you can't tell). I don't think this should really be able to do anything besides STAB, so nothing gets my vote. Maybe if "BlindingMire" didn't cause damage as well, but alas, that poll has passed.

Gothic Togekiss · Jul 28, 2008

Vote in.

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No - What...nothing bad would happened if it learns it.
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat - Yes/No
Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No - Mostly because of limited level-up/egg move space.

Code:

TM01 Focus Punch
    [I]TM02 Dragon Claw [/I]
    [I]TM03 Water Pulse[/I]
    [I]TM04 Calm Mind[/I]
    TM05 Roar 
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    [I]TM08 Bulk Up
   TM09 Bullet Seed[/I]
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam*
    [I]TM14 Blizzard[/I]
      TM15 Hyper Beam
      TM16 Light Screen
      TM17 Protect
      TM18 Rain Dance
      [I]TM19 Giga Drain[/I]
      TM20 Safe Guard
      TM21 Frustration
      [I]TM22 Solar Beam
     TM23 Iron Tail[/I]
      TM24 Thunderbolt*
      [I]TM25 Thunder[/I]
      TM26 Earthquake
      TM27 Return
      TM28 Dig
      TM29 Psychic
      TM30 Shadow Ball
   TM31 Brick Break
      TM32 Double Team
      TM33 Reflect
      TM34 Shock Wave
      TM35 Flamethrower*
      TM36 Sludge Bomb
      TM37 Sandstorm 
      [I]TM38 Fire Blast [/I]
      TM39 Rock Tomb 
      TM40 Aerial Ace
      TM41 Torment
      TM42 Facade 
      TM43 Secret Power
      TM44 Rest
      TM45 Attract
      TM46 Thief
      [I]TM47 Steel Wing
     TM48 Skill Swap[/I]
  TM49 Snatch
  [I]TM50 Overheat[/I]
  [I]TM51 Roost[/I]
  TM52 Focus Blast
  TM53 Energy Ball
  [I]TM54 False Swipe
 TM55 Brine[/I]
  TM56 Fling
  TM57 Charge Beam
   TM58 Endure
   [I]TM59 Dragon Pulse [/I]
  TM60 Drain Punch
  [I]TM61 Will-o-wisp
 TM62 Silver Wind[/I]
  TM63 Embargo
  [I]TM64 Explosion
 TM65 Shadow Claw[/I]
  TM66 Payback
  [I]TM67 Recycle[/I]
  TM68 Giga Impact 
    [I]TM69 Rock Polish[/I]
    TM70 Flash
   TM71 Stone Edge
    TM72 Avalanche 
    [I]TM73 Thunder Wave[/I]
    TM74 Gyro Ball
    [I]TM75 Swords Dance[/I]
    TM76 Stealth Rock 
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM78 Captivate 
    TM79 Dark Pulse
    TM80 Rock Slide
    [I]TM81 X-Scissor[/I]
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    TM84 Poison Jab
    [I]TM85 Dream Eater[/I]
    TM86 Grass Knot
    TM87 Swagger
    [I]TM88 Pluck[/I]
    TM89 U-Turn
    TM90 Substitute
    [I]TM91 Flash Cannon[/I]
    TM92 Trick Room
   [I]HM01 Cut
  HM02 Fly
  HM03 Surf[/I]
   HM04 Strength
   [I]HM05 Defog[/I]
   HM06 Rock Smash
   [I]HM07 Waterfall[/I]
   HM08 Rock Climb

Moves in italics are moves that would probably be removed when the complete movepool is ready.
Moves with the * after it are the one we're debating.

Thunderpup · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

yes to both CC and Cross Chop

Yamaha · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No - Accuracy will cost them in the long run.

Sunday · Jul 28, 2008

@ GT - I guess...?

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

darkie · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes
Flamethrower - Yes
Ice Beam - No
Icy Wind - Yes
Close Combat / Cross Chop - No
Pursuit - No
"BlindingMire" - Yes

For the same reasons tennis stated. ;D

the_artic_one · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

Even with ground + ice, I doubt anyone would attempt a sweeping set with this since it won't get any boosting moves. 6 SpA DLL doesn't ohko garchomp even without yache. I see no reason to deny DLL ground+ice when fellow utility ground types donphan claydol nidoking and nidoqueen all get it (plus more).

Deck Knight · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No - OK, I caved.
Icy Wind - Yes/No - yeah whatevs dude.
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No -ffs go with Acid Blind or somethin.

Overworld · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No I don't support any of the base 95 special moves. They just don't work flavorwise, no matter how many times I hear the 'Nidoqueen' justification.
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No We have too few spots to allow something like this. HP Ice is more powerful (though DLL isn't an attacker), and Tailwind/Tailwind-like Poison/Ground move mimics the effect, only better.
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No Brick Break offers a better supportive option, and this isn't built to be an attacker anyway.
Pursuit - Yes/No Flavorwise this move could kind of go either way, but it's certainly a viable option competitively.
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No I could see this becoming a viable move, and it certainly fits flavorwise. I guess we'd have to test it out to find out how really usable it is, and I think low BP + low base Attack means it won't be broken.

iamnotiangibson · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Maybe
Flamethrower - No
Ice Beam - No
Icy Wind - No
Close Combat - Maybe - Like Nobody's Nerd said, Brick Break would be much more effective.
Cross Chop - Yes
Pursuit - Yes
"BlindingMire" - Yes

DDRMaster · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

Elemental Beams and Icy Wind: I really don't see how it's using any of these and Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Icy Wind aren't usually on Ground Pokemon.

Cross Chop and Close Combat:I personally don't want this to have any 100+ non-STAB moves especially Close Combat. It doesn't make any sense on an utility Pokemon.

Pursuit: I don't care much if it gets Pursuit or not but it would waste a moveslot for something more important.

BlindingMire: I don't know how useful it would be but I don't care very much about this either.

RobertM · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

Hyra · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

Yes to everything because I like options and if STAB Earth Power doesn't OHKO Skarmy, unSTABed Flamethrower won't. Also, almost nothing besides the first three moves or "Blinding Mire" (bad name) will make it onto the lists anyways because we want at least 6 non-TM support moves anyways (Gravity, Tailwind, Rapid Spin, Wish, Encore, Haze, Counter, Spikes, Toxic Spikes). The only attack moves that aren't TMs that I see making this thing are Earth Power and the new Poison move. Even then, we are giving up support moves for them.

Edit:

I feel I should make it clear that I in no way expect all of these to be on the final movelist. I just prefer that the movelist creators have more stuff to work with.

latinoheat · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No- Doesn't make any sense
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No.
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No I think we should give it a try and can we get specifics down:

Does keen eye negate the whole switching out part?

Do we have a list of moves allowed so far

Darth Meanie · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No No problem with the concept.

Vinyacoire · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No - Just go for ThunderPunch.
Flamethrower - Yes/No - Again, just do Fire Punch.
Ice Beam - Yes/No - Um yeah, Ice Punch.
Icy Wind - Yes/No - If it gets rapidspin and tailwind, why not...
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No - Sure, he has lots of fists.
Pursuit - Yes/No - Probably difficult to run from so many grabbing hands...
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No - Already made a new ability, I think that's enough. Plus, if you want to give it something like this, just give it Whirlwind since it can probably use Tailwind anyway.

Icy Vegeta · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

ParadOxymoron · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - No
Flamethrower - No
Ice Beam - No
Icy Wind - No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - No / Yes
Pursuit - No
"BlindingMire" - No

I don't like the beams. I'd rather see this thing using Hidden Power Ice than Ice Beam. Icy Wind doesn't make any sense. You can tell me that it can blow up a wind, but you can't tell me that that wind can be freezing cold, too. Close Combat doesn't fit, but I think Cross Chop would be alright, so I did what Tsukikage did. If that's not okay for some silly reason, then just count my vote as a No. Pursuit is, in its nature, an extremely aggressive move, (seeing as it kills them no matter what, even if they try to switch,) and doesn't seem to fit the utility role. I think a custom move would just add to the clutter.

1059860 · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

Just flavorwise, I don't think this "support Pokemon" should get any of the above moves. Especially Close Combat, making it more closer towards a Sweeper with useable attack and high speed.

A supposedly-support Pokemon should NOT get Elemental-Beams. It will end up having more people using this thing as a SWEEPER than a Supporter.

beej · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

I really don't think some Ice is going to break this, and in fact I have a slight fear that this is going to fall BELOW expectations. I think that giving it the ability to scare at least one or two pokemon a bit is actually a good thing.

the_artic_one · Jul 28, 2008

Calcs for Ice punch if anyone's interested:

All neutral natures
6 atk vs Garchomp :50.28% - 60.34%
252 atk vs Garchomp: 67.04% -79.33%
6 atk vs salamence: 62.65% - 74.7%
252 atk vs salamence: 83.13% - 98.8%
6 atk vs salamence with intidmidate: 42.17% - 50.6%
252 atk vs salamence with intidmidate: 55.42% - 66.27%

What most distresses me about these is that yache chomp is a 3hko. Hp ice isn't much better 59.22% - 70.39% with 6 spa, still a chance to be a three hit rather than a two.

I much prefer ice beam at 81.56% - 96.09%, only occasionally 1hko's with sr and always a 2hko with yache.

Blln · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat / Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

Flounder · Jul 28, 2008

Thunderbolt - Yes/No
Flamethrower - Yes/No
Ice Beam - Yes/No
Icy Wind - Yes/No
Close Combat - Yes/No
Cross Chop - Yes/No
Pursuit - Yes/No
"BlindingMire" - Yes/No

Seperating Close Combat and Cross Chop to make a point. Hell no to Close Combat, but I don't mind Cross Chop; 20 less power and Accuracy is far less broken on this guy.

CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 11 (Attacking Moves Poll)

Sunday

God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)

tennisace

not quite too old for this, apparently

Tsukikage

Gothic Togekiss

Thunderpup

Yamaha

Sunday

God Bless Nintys Incompetence :*)

darkie

.

the_artic_one

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!

Overworld

iamnotiangibson

DDRMaster

RobertM

Hyra

latinoheat

Darth Meanie

Vinyacoire

Icy Vegeta

ParadOxymoron

1059860

beej

everybody walk the dinosaur

the_artic_one

Blln

Flounder

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