Mixquaza (Leadquaza Edit)

Megan_Fox

is a Contributor Alumnus
Since Raquaza lead doesnt really need its own set (does it?) due to being more or less the same as standard Mixquaza, i thought possibly a paragraph or two can be written about raquaza's efficiency as an Uber lead. Its quite a common lead in the current Metagame and i think it should get atleast a mention. I dont mind writing up a paragraph or two if QC approves.

edit: k paragraphs are done. its my first C&C writeup actually so i expect there to be a fair amount of gramatical errors.


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/rayquaza


<p>In addition to being a great wallbreaker, MixQuaza can also function as a very effective attacking lead that beats some of the most common leads in the metagame. Leads such as Deoxys, Deoxys-S, and Mew are only able to set up one layer of Spikes or Stealth Rock before being picked off by ExtremeSpeed. This puts you in an excellent position, with one of the opponent's Pokemon KOed and you having a high HP MixQuaza. Groudon and Dialga leads are risky match-ups, but they either forfeit the ability to set up Stealth Rock to KO Rayquaza or they set it up and faint. Choice Scarf Shaymin-S leads will attempt to use Air Slash or Hidden Power Ice against Rayquaza, so switching to a teammate that can sponge these attacks, such as a Steel-type or Blissey, is recommended. Kyogre and Darkrai are huge problems for lead Rayquaza and need special care. Darkrai can put Rayquaza to sleep while suffering only an ExtremeSpeed in return. Having a Sleep Talker on your team can remedy this situation substantially. Kyogre, on the other hand, possesses two common lead sets that both need different responses. Standard Thunder Wave Kyogre will take substantial damage before going down, but Choice Scarf Kyogre will take Rayquaza out without trouble.</p>

<p>Some other options are worth considering when using MixQuaza in the lead slot. The most common deviation is running Focus Sash over Life Orb. By doing so, Rayquaza is able to beat Dialga, Groudon, Leftovers Kyogre, and opposing lead Life Orb MixQuaza 100% of the time in exchange for less overall power. Lum Berry can also be used to take status from Darkrai, Thunder Wave Kyogre, Groudon, and Dialga.</p>
 
Yeah this is quite clear that it should be mentioned due to Rayquaza's popularity and effectiveness as an anti-lead.

If you want to write up some paragraphs for this then that would be great, Megan Fox.
 
I think LeadQuaza really should just get its own set that describes how it functions against the lead metagame and what it should watch out for. This would help users a lot when trying to differentiate between how to use a mid-game MixQuaza and a LeadQuaza, especially what to pair it with for good lead synergy (like we did with Attacking Lead Machamp in OU), despite that LeadQuaza functions much like a MixQuaza after the initial few turns.
 
@Rising Dusk- Well, this could be done, but its sort-of similar to how Giratina-O was handled, it can function as a great anti-lead, but the set is nearly identical to the mixed set they were lumped together. Also, this is what happened with Groudon and support Groudon.

Either way, this definately deserves some sort of mention.
 
Rising_Dusk said:
I think LeadQuaza really should just get its own set that describes how it functions against the lead metagame and what it should watch out for. This would help users a lot when trying to differentiate between how to use a mid-game MixQuaza and a LeadQuaza, especially what to pair it with for good lead synergy (like we did with Attacking Lead Machamp in OU), despite that LeadQuaza functions much like a MixQuaza after the initial few turns.
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Except for the fact that Leadquaza and MixQuaza run the exact same set right down to the item, EVs, and nature. There is no reason to write up a whole new set when it's the exact same. Writing a paragraph or two about what leads it can beat and special teammates to handle the ones it can't should suffice perfectly. TBH they really don't play that much differently.
 
Perhaps you are right. Mamoswine, for instance, can make an excellent attacking lead with the Life Orb set, yet that doesn't get a distinct set specifically written for that because it plays pretty much the same, just as a lead. At the very least, I agree that a paragraph or two in the MixQuaza set should be added with regards to how it functions in the lead position.
 
Keep in mind that some LeadQuaza run Focus Sash in order to beat opposing LeadQuaza, as well as Support Dialga leads.
 
Well, it should be mentioned that outrage > BB as lead and focus sash to be considered. The same should be mentioned for ho-oh imo.
 
I already mentioned focus sash and im not sure if outrage should be mentioned because it doesnt help Rayquaza beat any additional leads and locking yourself into a dragon move in the beginning of the game isnt a great idea. i guess it could have some midgame use, ill look into it
 
maybe a re-name on the name of the analysis will help the players find their way on this beloved lead set? for the new player, I'm certainly not going to the Mix Quaza set - especially not in the additional comments section. i think "MixQuaza (Lead)" seems like the appropriate name and the rising amount of usage and effectiveness of the set is enough to merit its own name at least (if that's the direction qc heads to).

but i have the agree with the notion of adding an entirely new set simply because running max spe on lead quaza is quite important with tieing with the opposing rayquaza leads. the current mixquaza analysis suggest you invest 216 only. the lead game is totally lead-reliant and its another reason why you need a separate analysis. iirc there several things that separate it from the mixquaza analysis:

(1) 252 spe
(2) focus sash as a slash
(3) completely different set comments

focus sash from experience is one of the best items to use especially with the rise of attacker leads such as mewtwo, deoxys-a, and rayquaza. i think this is how the lead set should look:

[SET]
name: MixQuaza (Lead)
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: Extremespeed
move 4: Outrage / Brick Break
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
nature: Naive
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
 
Leadquaza doesnt need 252 Speed-EV's because it is the only Uberpokemon that has a Basespeed of 95 and is used as a lead. I think if Leadquaza runs 252 Speed-EV's it is the definition of Speed-Creep. Take for example Lead-Machamp in OU - it doesnt run 252 Speed-EV's just to outrun other Machamps. The same can applied to Leadquaza.

If people decide to run more than 216 Speed-Ev's it is their own decision and not the best decision from an analysing point of view.

Oh adn if you run Focus Sash you literally have to use Draco Meteor against Lead-Deoxys-S because otherwise you cant stop it sufficiently from laying 2 layers of hazards down.

A -2 SpA-Leadquaza aint that scary anymore. Just mention this please if you slash Focus Sash in the set.
 
Would it be worth considering moving MixQuaza up on the analysis page to the first set? I mean if we're editing the analysis now, I think it'd make sense to put the most popular set first.

| Rayquaza | Move | Draco Meteor | 37.6 |
| Rayquaza | Move | Dragon Dance | 31.6 |
| Rayquaza | Move | Swords Dance | 24.9 |
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Those are from the July statistics. Since Draco Meteor is almost exclusively seen on MixQuaza, it really should be the first set listed.
 
Leadquaza doesnt need 252 Speed-EV's because it is the only Uberpokemon that has a Basespeed of 95 and is used as a lead. I think if Leadquaza runs 252 Speed-EV's it is the definition of Speed-Creep. Take for example Lead-Machamp in OU - it doesnt run 252 Speed-EV's just to outrun other Machamps. The same can applied to Leadquaza.
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No. You are wrong. Running max Speed to have a chance to Speed tie with Pokemon of that species is far from Speed creep. If it was Speed creep, nearly every analysis on site would be guilty of this (Scarftran, Scarf Flygon, ect.) The reason Machamp doesn't run 252 Speed EVs is because it needs those HP EVs to take a Psychic from Azelf, and the more EVs you take out of Attack the less threatening it becomes (given DynamicPunch is still a bitch). Rayquaza needs max Speed to have a chance to beat other max Speed Rayquaza. What do those 40 Evs in Atk / Hp / <Defense> accomplish anyways? 1% more damage on something?

If people decide to run more than 216 Speed-Ev's it is their own decision and not the best decision from an analysing point of view.
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Please explain what those 40 EVs in attack (or whatever) accomplish, or what you are saying isn't the best decision from an analysing point of view. Those 252 Speed EVs ensure you have a 50% chance (bar stuff like Draco Meteor miss) to beat opposing lead Rayquaza, more important then 1% more damage on something with Outrage, which is really a suicide attack on something that doesn't boost its Attack stat.

Oh adn if you run Focus Sash you literally have to use Draco Meteor against Lead-Deoxys-S because otherwise you cant stop it sufficiently from laying 2 layers of hazards down.
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Outrage from 150 Atk even with no EVs is threatening in my book. You still do around 30% to most things with ExtremeSpeed too, so nothing is really coming in after the lead and killing you for free, except stuff like Scizor, and if Scizor locks itself into BP it screams "come set up on me!". Who cares if you have to use Draco Meteor as long as it gets the job done, its basically a suicide lead.
A -2 SpA-Leadquaza aint that scary anymore. Just mention this please if you slash Focus Sash in the set.
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Mixquaza, you still have that STAB Outrage coming off 150 Attack, even with no investment, something isn't going to be happy.
 
franky said:
maybe a re-name on the name of the analysis will help the players find their way on this beloved lead set? for the new player, I'm certainly not going to the Mix Quaza set - especially not in the additional comments section.

Assuming the player in question has some amount of brains, they will realize that the leadray set is the exact same as the mixray set, so it would be logical to look there.


i think "MixQuaza (Lead)" seems like the appropriate name and the rising amount of usage and effectiveness of the set is enough to merit its own name at least (if that's the direction qc heads to).

but i have the agree with the notion of adding an entirely new set simply because running max spe on lead quaza is quite important with tieing with the opposing rayquaza leads. the current mixquaza analysis suggest you invest 216 only. the lead game is totally lead-reliant and its another reason why you need a separate analysis. iirc there several things that separate it from the mixquaza analysis:

(1) 252 spe

The old mixquaza analysis is a little outdated and this needs to be changed anyway. The 40 Attack does jack diddly squat.

(2) focus sash as a slash

Slashing in one item is not enough of a reason to make it into a whole new set.

(3) completely different set comments

Its just one, maybe two paragraph about how this set does as a lead. Otherwise, it works the same way as standard MixQuaza.

focus sash from experience is one of the best items to use especially with the rise of attacker leads such as mewtwo, deoxys-a, and rayquaza.

Okay, a mention in the comments on why Focus Sash is slashed in and what it does will suffice perfectly.
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So, in my opinion, this is what should happen:

1) The EVs need to be changed to Max Speed either way.
2) The sets are the exact same with the exception of an item slash, so making a new analysis is HORRIBLY redundant. A paragraph about how this does as a lead will suffice.
 
Here's a proofread:
Megan_Fox said:
<p>In addition to being a great wallbreaker midgame, Mixquaza can also function as a very effective anti-lead that allows players to form an obtain offensive momentum at the beginning of the battle by beating some of the most common leads in the metagame. Leads such as Deoxys-S, Mew, and Deoxys are only able to lay up one layer or Spikes or Stealth Rocks before being picked off by ExtremeSpeed. This leaves you in an excellent position, with one of the opponent's Pokemon down having just limiting the opponents entry hazards while still having your Mixquaza still has at 80% of its health. When playing against Groudon leads, Rayquaza can simply use Draco Meteor followed by an Extremespeed in order to KO standard Groudon leads most the majority of the time. Groudon will either have paralyzed you, set up Stealth Rocks or have OHKOed you with Dragon Claw/Stone Edge. Should it be the former two scenarios, Rayquaza will once again be at near full health and the opponent will be would be left in quite a bad position. Should Groudon have attacked you, instead of the other two options, all is not lost seeing as the opposing Groudon can easily get picked off and the opponent will be left without Stealth Rocks while you can set them later in the battle. Against Dialga leads, Dialga has the option of laying Stealth Rocks or KOing Rayquaza after being slammed by a Draco Meteor. Should it opt to Stealth Rock, support variants will be KOed by a Draco Meteor followed by a Brick Break. Should it choose to OHKO Rayquaza with Draco Meteor, Dialga can be easily revenged the following turn before it can set up Stealth Rock.then becomes unable to set up Stealth Rock and can easily be revenged next turn. Shaymin-S leads are easy to work around since they always carry a Choice Scarf. They will always use carry Air Slash or Hidden Power Ice on you so switching into a teammate that can sponge these attacks, such as a Steel-type or Blissey, is recommended. Kyogre and Darkrai on the other hand, are large problems for this lead. Darkrai can use Dark Void on Rayquaza putting it to sleep, and in return, only getting hit all it can do in return is hit it with an ExtremeSpeed. Having a Rest Sleep Talker on your team can help remedy this situation as it can in order the absorb the Dark Void. Kyogre on the other hand, possesses two common Uber lead sets. Rayquaza can at(space)least hit standard Thunder Wave Kyogre lead for a respectable 61.1% - 72.3% damage, but should it be the Choice Scarfed Kyogre lead, Rayquaza won't even get a chance to land an attack.</p>

<p>Leadquaza has some other options that are worth considering. The most common deviation is running a Focus Sash over Life Orb as the choice of item. By doing so, Leadquaza is able to beat Dialga, Groudon, Kyogre and opposing Leadquazas 100% of the time (Bar Kyogre running Choice Scarf and other opposing Rayquaza running Sash as well) in exchange for less overall power. not just the lead position but also midgame should Rayquaza make it to that stage of the game. Lum Berry can also be run in order to take status moves from opposing leads such as Dark Void from Darkrai, or Thunder(space)Wave from Kyogre, Groudon or Dialga.</p>
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If you have any questions you can ask them on IRC, or here of course. Red is remove, bold is an addition or change.
 
OK, heres what i think should happen. it should be end most problems that are being discussed. First off, like Iconic pointed out, mixquaza should be the first set in the analysis.

Then i think the set should be changed to:

[SET]
name: Mixquaza (Lead)
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Brick Break / Outrage
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Hasty / Naive

there. Speed is edited, it says LEAD so anyone with eyes will see that its a viable lead as well. Brick break is the main option due to superiority (IMO). The paragraphs mentioning its function as a lead can be in the end of the set analysis (or beginning idk). For those who are on frankys boat and believe it should have a seperate analysis, im pretty sure the only concern now is that Focus Sash isnt slashed seeing as with it being the first set in the analysis and having lead in its title makes it blatantly obvious.

do tell views on this idea

btw thanks Firecape, it looks good. I only skimmed through it but dont see any problems with your edits. ill soon edit them into the OP
 
Ok, I would like to take this oppurtunity to bring up my antilead rayquaza. It is different to any other I have seen. Here is the set.

Rayquaza @ Lum Berry
- Draco Meteor
- Brick Break
- Extremespeed
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Ev's: 252Atk / 252SpA / 4Spe
Nature: Mild

First thing you will notice about this is the item. Lum Berry is a very useful item on lead Rayquaza as it allows Rayquaza to beat Dark Void Scarfrai leads through a combination of Brick Break + Extremespeed, leaving you with a fully intact Rayquaza with no SpA drop. It is also very useful against Thunder Wave leads.

Second thing you will notice is the Ev spread and nature. Losing Life Orb diminishes Rayquaza's power. To compensate for this, I ran decided to maximise both Atk and SpA to secure so important Ko's versus other top leads. The lack of speed when you think about it matters on very few ocassions. Entry hazard leads and scarf leads would be outspeeding you regardless, whereas most of the base 90 leads run little or no speed anyway meaning you can outspeed them. In fact, the only times I have found the lack of speed to matter has been opposing Rayquaza, Giratina-O and Dialga.

One thing to note is that you do lose the ability to beat bulky Deoxys-S leads through a combination of Fire Blast and Extremespeed but it is still worth it IMO. You can hit anything that comes in after with Extremespeed still.
 
Megan_Fox said:
OK, heres what i think should happen. it should be end most problems that are being discussed. First off, like Iconic pointed out, mixquaza should be the first set in the analysis.

Then i think the set should be changed to:

[SET]
name: Mixquaza (Lead)
move 1: Draco Meteor
move 2: Fire Blast
move 3: ExtremeSpeed
move 4: Brick Break / Outrage
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Hasty / Naive

there. Speed is edited, it says LEAD so anyone with eyes will see that its a viable lead as well. Brick break is the main option due to superiority (IMO). The paragraphs mentioning its function as a lead can be in the end of the set analysis (or beginning idk). For those who are on frankys boat and believe it should have a seperate analysis, im pretty sure the only concern now is that Focus Sash isnt slashed seeing as with it being the first set in the analysis and having lead in its title makes it blatantly obvious.

do tell views on this idea

btw thanks Firecape, it looks good. I only skimmed through it but dont see any problems with your edits. ill soon edit them into the OP
Click to expand...


Lead doesn't really need to be added to the title. Just do it like what was done for Giratina-O and add in the paragraphs.
 
k, sounds fine then. Does this still need GP Checks even though its not a full analysis and just a paragraph or two? if not then it should be ready
 
Additions in bold, removals in red.
<p>In addition to being a great wallbreaker, Mixquaza MixQuaza can also function as a very effective anti-lead attacking lead that allows players to obtain offensive momentum at the beginning of the battle by beating beats some of the most common leads in the metagame. Leads such as Deoxys-S, Mew, and Deoxys are only able to lay set up one layer or of Spikes or Stealth Rock before being picked off by ExtremeSpeed. This leaves puts you in an excellent position, with one of the opponent's Pokemon KOed and you having a high HP MixQuaza. down while your Mixquaza still has 80% of its health. When playing against Groudon lead Rayquaza can simply use Draco Meteor followed by an Extremespeed in order to KO standard the majority of the time. Groudon will either have paralyzed you, set up Stealth Rock or have OHKOed you with Dragon Claw/Stone Edge. Should it be the former two scenarios, Rayquaza will once again be at near full health and the opponent will be in quite a bad position. Should Groudon have attacked you, instead of the other two options, all is not lost seeing as the opposing Groudon can easily get picked off and the opponent will be left without Stealth Rock while you can set them later in the battle. Against Dialga leads, Dialga has the option of laying Stealth Rock or KOing Rayquaza after being slammed by a Draco Meteor. Should it opt to Stealth Rock, support variants will be KOed by a Draco Meteor followed by a Brick Break. Should it choose to OHKO Rayquaza with Draco Meteor, Dialga can be easily revenged the following turn before it can set up Stealth Rock. ((Rewriting this because it rambles seriously)) Groudon and Dialga leads are risky match-ups, but either they forfeit the ability to set up Stealth Rock to KO Rayquaza or they set it up and faint. Choice Scarf Shaymin-S leads are easy to work around since they always carry a Choice Scarf. They will always carry will attempt to Air Slash or Hidden Power Ice Rayquaza, so switching into to a teammate that can sponge these attacks, such as a Steel-type or Blissey, is recommended. Kyogre and Darkrai on the other hand, are large huge problems for lead Rayquaza and need special care. this lead. Darkrai can use Dark Void on Rayquaza putting Rayquaza it to sleep, and in return, only getting hit with while only suffering an ExtremeSpeed in return. Having a Sleep Talker on your team can help remedy this situation substantially. as it can absorb Dark Void. Kyogre, on the other hand, possesses two common lead sets that both need different responses. Rayquaza can at least hit sStandard Thunder Wave Kyogre lead for a respectable 61.1% - 72.3% will take substantial damage before going down damage, but should it be the Choice Scarfed Kyogre lead will take Rayquaza out without issue., Rayquaza won't even get a chance to land an attack.</p>

<p>Leadquazahas s Some other options that are worth considering when using MixQuaza in the lead slot. The most common deviation is running a Focus Sash over Life Orb. By doing so, Leadquaza Rayquaza is able to beat Dialga, Groudon, Leftovers Kyogre, and opposing Leadquazas lead Life Orb MixQuaza 100% of the time (Bar Kyogre running Choice Scarf and other opposing Rayquaza running Sash as well) in exchange for less overall power. Lum Berry can also be run used in order to take status from opposing leads such as Dark Void from Darkrai, or and Thunder Wave from Kyogre, Groudon, or and Dialga.</p>
The first paragraph rambles a lot. You do not need to, nor should you, explain the intricacies of every single major match-up. You should focus on what it can beat, what it can't beat, and what you should do to your team in order to support MixQuaza in the lead position. I rewrote that big chunk I removed and fixed the errors elsewhere. Good job overall, though.

Cheers.

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