Deoxys-D (Update)

status: DONE


http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/deoxys-d

[overview]
<p>Deoxys-D is often an overlooked Pokemon, and for good reason. While it has great defensive stats, its HP is rather lacking, and it simply can't stand up to the powerhouses that rampage through the Ubers tier. It also receives competition from its sibling formes, most of which can usually play the support role better. Despite its rather large shortcomings, Deoxys-D can still easily help a team out with its fairly large support movepool. However, it will also needs some assistance itself; do not expect to be able to just throw it onto a team. It may not be the first Pokemon you consider for your team, nor should it be, but it can certainly perform its roles well when given a chance.</p>

[SET]
name: Spiker
move 1: Spikes
move 2: Recover
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Ice Beam / Taunt
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
nature: Calm

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While it may not be the best choice for a Spiker, Deoxys-D can certainly pull its weight. Though it has great Special Defense and Defense stats, they are unfortunately let down by a rather poor HP stat. The first slot goes to Spikes, allowing Deoxys-D to support the team by limiting the amount of switches the opponent can perform. Deoxys-D faces tough competition from Forretress, Skarmory, and Deoxys-S for a teamslot, since all of them are also very competent at setting up Spikes; however, Deoxys-D has some advantages over the other Spikers. Deoxys-D boasts far higher Special Defense than Skarmory, but doesn't have the handy Steel typing that Skarmory does. Forretress is often used over Deoxys-D because it can also learn Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin, but Deoxys-D has Recover, so it isn't completely outclassed by Forretress either. Finally, Deoxys-S is mainly used as a suicide lead, whereas Deoxys-D's superior bulk allows it to function well throughout the game.</p>

<p>To keep Deoxys-D in tip-top condition, Recover is the preferred move in the second slot. Toxic works great in conjunction with Recover as it allows Deoxys-D to effectively stall out many threats with its decent bulk. The last slot is a bit of a toss-up. Ice Beam is useful to give Deoxys-D some form of offense, and has the ability to hit the multitude of Dragon-type Pokemon in Ubers for a hefty amount of damage. On the other hand, Taunt can be used to prevent Pokemon such as Forretress from setting up on Deoxys-D.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Deoxys-D has a few more viable EV spreads to choose from. A spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 82 SpD allows it to always survive a +1 Life Orb Outrage from a Jolly Rayquaza; if you choose this spread, Ice Beam is obviously recommended over Taunt for the final slot. It is entirely possible to create an EV spread of your own to better fit your team, but it is crucial to remember to always max out Deoxys-D's HP EVs first; since its defenses are so much higher than its HP, investing in HP increases its bulk exponentially more than investing in Special Defense or Defense. Investing more into Speed is also an option, as Deoxys-D has the same base Speed as a large amount of Uber Pokemon.</p>

<p>Deoxys-D also has a few other choices in terms of moves. Knock Off can be annoying for opponents, as oftentimes Pokemon will not be able to break through Deoxys-D's defenses without a boost from their item; however, it can potentially harm your team more by letting the opposing Pokemon switch moves freely once its Choice item has been removed. If you would rather paralyze Pokemon instead of poisoning them, Thunder Wave can be used over Toxic. This comes with the drawback of Deoxys-D inflicting little to no damage to many Pokemon, however. The last move worth considering is Stealth Rock. Deoxys-D is strapped for move slots, but if you wish, Stealth Rock can be useful in place of another move to help Deoxys-D further support the team.</p>

<p>Deoxys-D easily falls to many of the powerhouses (such as Choice Specs Dialga and Choice Specs Kyogre) that roam the Ubers tier. Therefore, it is a good idea to use Deoxys-D on a defensively based team so that other teammates can pick up the slack. Blissey and Lugia are both great options to take powerful special and physical attacks that Deoxys-D can't handle, respectively. Groudon is also a useful partner thanks to its ability to lay down Stealth Rock and handle many physical attackers such as Tyranitar. Forretress can function as a great supporter, as it can lay down Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock, and also Rapid Spin away of any hazards that may hinder Deoxys-D's ability to wall. On top of all this, a spinblocker is a crucial comrade for Deoxys-D to prevent its, and its teammates', entry hazards from being spun away. Giratina-O and Giratina both fit the bill and can take Bug-type attacks from the likes of Heracross and Scizor that cause Deoxys-D to flee in fear. Finally, phazers, such as Lugia and Groudon, can successfully capitalize on the entry hazards Deoxys-D sets down.</p>

[SET]
name: Toxic Stall
move 1: Agility
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Taunt
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 108 SpD / 148 Spe
nature: Calm

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>While it may seem silly on paper, this set can be quite effective and aggravating to an opponent when used correctly. This set functions quite similarly to Mewtwo's "Stalltwo" sets, although Mewtwo performs a little bit better due to its superior Speed, which enables it to forgo Agility for either Reflect or Light Screen. Mewtwo also has access to Will-O-Wisp, which it often uses over Toxic and alongside one of the aforementioned screens to shut out attackers of all types. Make no mistake, however, that while this set may be outclassed, Deoxys-D can still hold its own.</p>

<p>Agility is the most important move on this set as, with the given EVs, it allows Deoxys-D to outspeed max Speed Deoxys-S with, enabling Deoxys-D to Taunt Deoxys-S before it receives a Taunt in return. Agility also gives Deoxys-D enough Speed to outspeed Choice Scarf Garchomp, the fastest commonly used Scarfer in Ubers. Deoxys-D has extremely poor attacking stats, so Toxic is used to allow Deoxys-D to stall out everything but Steel- and Poison-type Pokemon, the latter of which is never seen in Ubers. Taunt protects Deoxys-D from status and prevents opposing walls from recovering health or healing status. It also saves Deoxys-D from being Taunted, as Deoxys-D outspeeds every non-Choice Scarfed Pokemon─and therefore every Taunt user─after an Agility. Recover allows Deoxys-D to constantly heal while the opponents' Pokemon slowly die to poison damage.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>It is crucial to maximize Deoxys-D's HP stat when distributing EVs, but beyond that, it is up to you. It's perfectly feasible to use a Bold nature with some (or all) of the Special Defense EVs shifted to Defense. You can also lessen the investment in Speed to just hit key benchmarks and distribute the leftover EVs into Special Defense and Defense as you see fit. With no investment in Speed and a neutral nature, Deoxys-D will always outspeed Mewtwo after an Agility, but will be in turn outsped by nearly every common Choice Scarf user in Ubers. With 56 EVs invested in Speed, Deoxys-D will always outspeed all Pokemon with base 90 Speed wielding a Choice Scarf, so this benchmark is usable if your team has other ways of dealing with base 100 Speed Scarfers. Finally, 136 Speed EVs allow Deoxys-D to outspeed Choice Scarf Garchomp, but you might as well just bump it up to 148 EVs to allow Deoxys-D to outspeed Deoxys-S.</p>

<p>As mentioned earlier, Steel-types have a field day with this set as Deoxys-D can't touch them, meaning it has to resort to either PP stalling (which is plausible with Pressure) or switching out. The latter is usually the best response to the situation, so Deoxys-D needs good teammates to switch into Steel-types, and other Pokemon that threaten it. Giratina makes a decent partner for Deoxys-D as it can Will-O-Wisp all Steel-types, bar Heatran, and proceed to stall them out. Giratina is also a good spinblocker, which is useful as Deoxys-D does best with the opponent's field layered with hazards. Forretress is a great option to set up entry hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, as it can easily set up on most Steel-types. It may seem odd to use Toxic Spikes in conjunction with Toxic, but Deoxys-D will often face the dilemma of using either Recover, Toxic, or Taunt, and having Toxic Spikes doing half the work for it will lessen the prediction needed. Giratina-O is also a good choice for a spinblocker if you are using a more offensively oriented team, as Giratina can slow down many teams. The two aforementioned spinblockers also counter Heracross well, which is a major threat to Deoxys-D, as it can proceed to easily crush Deoxys-D with a Guts-boosted Megahorn if hit by Toxic or Toxic Spikes. Heatran is also a decent teammate that can eliminate annoying Steel-types with its powerful Fire-type attacks; it also can use Roar to abuse any entry hazards its teammates have laid down. Magnezone, while not often seen in Ubers, can be a great partner to Deoxys-D thanks to its ability, Magnet Pull, which allows it to trap and kill Steel-types.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, Deoxys-D's overall defenses are still only slightly above average, meaning it struggles with powerful attacks from the likes of Kyogre and Dialga. This means that dedicated walls can be great teammates for Deoxys-D. Blissey can easily take almost every special attack thrown at it, making it an ideal partner for Deoxys-D. Lugia is a good choice for taking powerful physical attacks with its access to Roost and Reflect, although it is slightly hampered by its weakness to Stealth Rock. Skarmory can also take most physical attacks extremely well, walls quite a few Steel-types, possesses instant recovery in the form of Roost, can use Whirlwind to abuse entry hazards, and has the ability to set up Spikes to boot. Finally, Groudon is also adept at taking physical blows, and has the ability to use Roar and set up Stealth Rock to further support the team. Groudon also keeps Tyranitar in check, who can cause headaches for Deoxys-D with its STAB Dark-type attacks.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>As mentioned many times before, Deoxys-D is countered by nearly all Steel-types. This means that if you wish to use it, you will need to provide adequate anti-Steel measures. Magnezone can trap and kill a wide variety of Steel-types thanks to Magnet Pull, but it still falls to Lucario, Heatran, and on occasion, Dialga. Heatran also does well against quite a few Steel-types, especially with sun support from Groudon, thanks to its high Special Attack and STAB Fire-type attacks. Groudon can take some physical attacks that may make Deoxys-D falter, set up Stealth Rock, and phaze with Roar to abuse any hazards Deoxys-D or other teammates have laid down. Phazers in general make decent teammates to abuse the entry hazards often used in conjunction with Deoxys-D. Like many of the previously listed Pokemon, Giratina can handle quite a few Steel-types well and can also double as a spinblocker with its Ghost typing. Forretress doesn't really mind the majority of Steel-types, and can easily set up entry hazards like Toxic Spikes to aid Deoxys-D.</p>

<p>Deoxys-D also falters against many powerhouses in the Uber tier. Therefore, teammates that can help pick up some of the defensive slack can be highly beneficial. Blissey and Lugia can do great in this regard, as both able to take a wide variety of special and physical attacks, respectively. Groudon and Skarmory are both excellent teammates to take physical attacks as well. Groudon can phaze, set up Stealth Rock, check Tyranitar reliably, and directly threaten Steel-types with its powerful Earthquake. Skarmory, on the other hand, can phaze, has access to reliable recovery, and can set up Spikes; all of these qualities greatly help Deoxys-D. It is also key to pack Pokemon that benefit from Deoxys-D's support, such as phazers to abuse Spikes or Pokemon to set up on a wall that has been Taunted.</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Deoxys-D has a few other options not mentioned in the above sets, though most are gimmicky. A lead set is possible, but it is inferior to Deoxys-S in nearly every way. Calm Mind can be used to attempt to create a bulky setup sweeper, but its Special Attack is so low that it barely even scratches the majority of Ubers with its feeble assaults. A set utilizing CounterCoat is usable, but is rather unreliable, and Deoxys-D has such low HP that it won't be bouncing much damage back anyways. Cosmic Power is an interesting choice to raise both of Deoxys-D's great defenses, but Deoxys-D will still be easy Taunt bait and still gets dominated by every Steel-type in Ubers. Using Light Clay alongside a moveset including Reflect and Light Screen is plausible, but this set is severely outclassed by other dual screen users. Finally, Psycho Shift and Rest are both interesting options to rid Deoxys-D of status, but it usually has "better" things to do.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Heracross can easily switch into anything Deoxys-D throws at it, especially Toxic, since it can obtain an Attack boost from Guts and proceed to Megahorn Deoxys-D into oblivion. If Deoxys-D doesn't have an Agility boost under its belt, fast Taunt users like Mewtwo and Darkrai can incapacitate it and set up with ease. Tyranitar doesn't really care about what Deoxys-D does, activates sandstorm which nullifies Deoxys-D's Leftovers, and can cause massive damage with its STAB Dark-type attacks. Tyranitar can even nail Deoxys-D with Pursuit if it tries to flee.</p>

<p>In general, Deoxys-D will fall to powerful attacks. It simply cannot stand up to the likes of Choice Specs Dialga or Choice Specs Kyogre, easily crumpling beneath their might. Most Steel-types also wall Deoxys-D, as it can't touch them at all. Scizor can switch in and smack Deoxys-D with a powerful U-turn, and will only hesitate to come in if there are several layers of entry hazards laid down already. Jirachi can paralyze Deoxys-D even when Taunted, thanks to Body Slam, and proceed to flinch it to death with Iron Head. Heatran has a 4x resistance to Ice Beam, the only attack that Deoxys-D ever carries, is immune to Toxic, and can torch Deoxys-D with powerful sun-boosted Fire-type attacks. In addition to all of this, if it lacks Taunt, Deoxys-D can easily be Toxic stalled by Blissey with Aromatherapy. Even without Aromatherapy, Blissey can just heal itself of poison with Natural Cure. Deoxys-D can be quite annoying at times, but it has a lot of counters.</p>

Uhhh yeah, the agility toxic set is pretty bad, so I agree with removing it. It may have been great before people carried at least one steel on every team, but it gets torn apart now XD. Maybe substitute and HP fire could go on the OC, (One for sub toxic stall against things like ogre, and the other for deterring scizor in the sun) though it will still do hardly anything to scizor or forre in the rain. He definitely needs an update, but ugh, he just isnt that good =/

random tidbit: with a more defensive build, torment+protect+spikes+recover lets you laugh at CBTar while setting up Spikes.

I'm going to do a bit of testing, but Agility/Toxic set definitely has its merits and should be kept. This is because while you can't Toxic any of the Steels, they can't do anything back, with the exception of Scizor (Which you can take advantage of so easily it's not funny). This means with Pressure, Recover and Taunt, you can stall them out quite easily. With a bit of EV optimising, I think should be able to go nicely.

Edit: firecape, how can you say that set is bad? o_0 I basically took Fireburn and bojangles' Quick Stall team and replaced Mewtwo with it and Shaymin-S with Ho-oh and stalled 5 Pokemon with that Deoxys-D. I'll post up logs later, but I've saved that one. Yes, it is only one match, but you seriously need to retest it =P.

Also, I haven't tested it, but was wondering about this:

Deo-d@leftovers
252HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm
-Mirror coat
-Counter
-Taunt / toxic
-Recover

It feints the agility set be can surprise the kyogres with mirror coat, rays with counter, etc. It can taunt and recover, unlike wobba.

calze6 said:

Also, I haven't tested it, but was wondering about this:

Deo-d@leftovers
252HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm
-Mirror coat
-Counter
-Taunt / toxic
-Recover

It feints the agility set be can surprise the kyogres with mirror coat, rays with counter, etc. It can taunt and recover, unlike wobba.

Click to expand...

It is waaayyyyyyy to much set up fodder. It is not exactly fast and does not get encore, so it has nothing to deter set up. Something like Something like Groudon could easily come in and set up a Swords Dance before you can taunt it, and it you end up going for a counter, he gets a RP, too. The only reason wobbs can pull that set off is because you can't switch out.

shrang said:

I'm going to do a bit of testing, but Agility/Toxic set definitely has its merits and should be kept. This is because while you can't Toxic any of the Steels, they can't do anything back, with the exception of Scizor (Which you can take advantage of so easily it's not funny). This means with Pressure, Recover and Taunt, you can stall them out quite easily. With a bit of EV optimising, I think should be able to go nicely.

Edit: firecape, how can you say that set is bad? o_0 I basically took Fireburn and bojangles' Quick Stall team and replaced Mewtwo with it and Shaymin-S with Ho-oh and stalled 5 Pokemon with that Deoxys-D. I'll post up logs later, but I've saved that one. Yes, it is only one match, but you seriously need to retest it =P.

Click to expand...

I will admit I didn't test it carefully (it looked really bad on paper in my opinion...), so I guess I'll give it another shot. I can't right now, however, as I have to go to school :\.

Pairs well with magnezone.

(it looked really bad on paper in my opinion...)

Click to expand...

*Slaps you*

Theorymoning shit only gets you so far...

Anyway, I've got one log at the moment, may update with more later, I'm FEGELEIN in the log.


That's what I'm talking about, heh (Alright, alright, I miscounted, it was FOUR Pokemon).

Yeah, lol, but I still want to know what it does better than stalltwo. Mewtwo has such high Speed that it doesn't even need a boost to outspeed pretty much everything with minimal investment, allowing it to use nearly all of its EVs in its defensive stats. Since it doesn't have to use agility, it can use a slot for a screen and use Will-O-Wisp to boot (which Deoxys-D really wishes it has). I understand "works but outclassed", but I want some other opinions on this.

You opponent wasn't too bright there though. He could've just stayed in dialga and stall you. I think that with magnezone support, it can be quite effective.

calze6 said:

You opponent wasn't too bright there though. He could've just stayed in dialga and stall you. I think that with magnezone support, it can be quite effective.

Click to expand...

Dialga was going to be the one getting stalled, since he can't do anything back to Deoxys-D barring a crit. So even if he DID stay in, it would have been a Deoxys-D stalling out 5 Pokemon, not 4. Anyway, the EV spread I'm using is 252 HP / 104 Def / 148 Spe with a Calm nature, resulting in 304 HP / 382 Def / 391 SpD / 253 Spe as your relevant stats. After an Agility, you outspeed Deoxys-S. While you say Stall Mewtwo has better speed, his defenses are significantly shitter and is harder to switch in. Agility is also a very underrated move since it stops other people from Taunting you, be it Deoxys-S like in the log or stuff like TauntCM Mewtwo who run max speed while Stalltwo cannot. This set also allows you Taunt/Toxic Ho-oh before it kills you, unlike Stalltwo who can't do jack shit to her. Deoxys-D is not outclassed by Mewtwo in the least, firecape.

Ok, I will add it to the OP after we discuss an EV spread for it (unless anyone has an arguement they wish to make). I would like to open this matter for discussion (I know you stated an EV spread, but it would be nice to know what it did shrang ;) ). Also, I'm rather iffy on the main spread, I messed around with it a bit but I'm not that good at finding optimal EV spreads, and the fact that adding to SpD and Def hardly decreases damage output doesn't help. If anyone can find a good spread to survive a specific KO (no Speed creep involve please...) that would be cool, otherwise the 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm spread stays for the spiker with the AC spread in...well AC :P.

Currently, the EV spread used lets you outspeed Deoxys-S after an Agility. 252 HP is pretty much compulsory, and the rest kinda went into Defense (Last 104 EVs can go between defenses too, I guess).

Giratina should be mention in teamates, as Giratina stops Ho-oh and Sword dance Groudon. Giratina can phaze with roar and work well with the spikes set up by deoxys-D. Giratina resist Deoxys-D weakness to bug attacks and burns steels like Lucario and Scizor

OK I did some testing and updated the OP with the Agility set, I would appreciate if some Uber QC members could take a look at this :).

Just a note on the EVs again, you might want to consider extra Speed EVs to outspeed Deoxys-S, since they can easily Taunt you at the moment. Not everyone sacrifices their Deoxys-S at the start of every match.

shrang said:

Just a note on the EVs again, you might want to consider extra Speed EVs to outspeed Deoxys-S, since they can easily Taunt you at the moment. Not every sacrifices their Deoxys-S at the start of every match.

Click to expand...

Yes, I fixed this since its such a small EV shift it barely matters defense wise, while those Speed EVs could make all the difference, the SpD EVs didn't ensure anything I know of either.

Mention Magnezone as a teammate for AgilityToxic Deo-D to kill Steels.

Looks good otherwise.

QC Approved (1/3)

Deoxys-D is such a depressing Pokemon.

QC APPROVED 2/3

QC Approved 3/3

-_-

Finished and ready for GP checks :).

i am putting a placeholder here out of my own free will

edit: aw dude did you not see my placeholder? RUDE

im gettin sniped left and right these days...

GP Check 1/2

Deletions
Additions


Some repetitive parts here and there, I would urge you to look up some synonyms for 'teammates'. Also appears to get kind of careless towards the end.

Otherwise good job.

Thanks Fatecrashers, and I didn't realize I used teammate that much at all O_O;

I applied nearly all your edits, but there were like 3 I had some issue with, if you really want to know them you can compare the OP with your post, lol. Just one thing I would like to point out:

switch in and activate a Sandstorm to nullify

Click to expand...

No weather is capitalized ;).

Thanks a lot! C'mon one more then we can get this piece of s on site :)