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2013 Global Showdown: Nintendo's official 3 vs 3 Ubers Tournament!

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Theorymon, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    2013 Global Showdown!

    Yeah it's a bit late to start this kind of thread, but I think this could lead to some interesting discussion! Also, next time, when this happens in gen 6, I will post the thread right away :p

    In a shocking turn of events, Nintendo announced the final Black 2 and White 2 Wifi tournament, and guess what: they finally realized that Ubers is the best metagame, because that's how they are ending generation 5! If any of you have Black 2 and White 2, I want you to sign up if you can. Because if you do and finish 5 matches, you get automatic entrance into a special X & Y Wifi Tournament this year!


    1. You need a copy of Black 2 and White 2.

    2. Registration is now open, and will close at 11:59 PM UTC, July 25th.

    3. The actual tournament goes on from July 26th, midnight UTC, to July 29th, 11:59 PM UTC.

    4: DO NOT DISCONNECT FROM BATTLES! You'll get penalized if you are the one who did it!
    Metagame Rules
    I'm lazy, so I'm going to use the Uber command, Copy + Paste!​
    .This competition will use Single Battle format

    .The Wonder Launcher will not be used

    .Players must use a copy of Pokémon Black Version 2 or Pokémon White Version 2

    .The following Pokémon cannot be used in this competition: Chatot

    .Register 3–6 of your Lv. 1–100 Pokémon to your Battle Box

    .All Pokémon will automatically become Level 50 during battles

    .Nicknames you have given to your Pokémon will not be displayed

    .A 30-minute time limit for each match will automatically be enforced in-game, beginning at the start of each battle. If the outcome has not been determined when the time limit expires, the game will automatically apply tiebreakers to determine a winner

    .At the beginning of each battle, players have two minutes to choose 3 Pokémon to battle with

    At the beginning of each turn, players have one minute to select moves for their Pokémon or change the Active Pokémon. If a player has not made his or her selection at the end of this period, the game will automatically make a selection for the player

    .Pokémon may not hold the item Soul Dew•

    .Pokémon may not use the move Sky Drop or Dark Void during battle

    What to talk about in this thread

    So, this thread has two simple goals!

    1. I want you guys to discuss how the Ubers metagame is changed by all these rules. Especially stuff like the Soul Dew and Dark Void ban, lack of Sleep Clause, and of course, the 3vs3 team preview stuff!

    2. I want you guys to help people build teams for this thing. Especially for wifiers who are new to Ubers. I want as much Smogon representation here as possible!
  2. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    Excuse the double post, but I might as well give my thoughts on how this metagame could turn out!

    Since this format is almost like an Ubers GBU, expect this to be a LOT faster paced than usual Ubers. When you only have 3 Pokémon, stalling is a lot harder! Also, Focus Sash was HUGE in GBU. I mean, people were using freaking Double Kick Terrakion just to beat Focus Sash Tyranitar! So for that reason, I expect Stealth Rock to still be common, but also to be much less of a hindrance too! Don't expect too much Spikes and Toxic Spikes though.

    The other major thing I remember for GBU was team building. Because you have to choose 3 out of your 6 Pokémon, you can design teams around working in certain combonations. For example, it's very possible to say, run a Rain + Sand team that isn't just regular double weather, but can also function as a regular rain or regular sand team, due to the fact that you only choose 3 Pokémon!
  3. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Is there a team preview of 6 Pokémon which you see before picking, like in VGC? Anyway these are my thoughts on the most popular Pokémon in the tier and how they would fare (usage according to the latest stats of course).

    Kyogre- The usurper king of Ubers does well in this metagame. Swift swimmers are quite useful as stall isn't that prevalent, which makes the speedy fossils and Kingdra quite the cleaners, even moreso than they are in the real metagam. Also Kyogre's power is great, and since it doesn't have to set up, its hard hitting STAB-moves are great in a metagame where you want to deal as much damage as possible quickly. A downside of Kyogre is IMO that with three Pokémon on the team and a STAB that depends on rain being up, as strange as it sounds, makes Kyogre set-up bait for a lot of stuff should the opponent have a Groudon. And considering switches aren't as good in a fast paced 3v3 game, this might be very detrimental. In all Kyogre is worth using. Make sure to get around set-up sweepers on sun teams (E-killer, Ghostceus etc).

    A good set here would be Thunder Wave lure, with Lum Berry for random status or a Water Gem. Since matches are fairly short, Leftovers is probably not that great, and Focus Sash is also a bit iffy as Kyogre can usually take one move from most things. Roar is a cool move if you don't want to be set-up on in the sun. Scarf or specs are also quite cool, but beware of the drawbacks of using choice items in a format where switches can be really costly...

    Arceus- E-killer gets into this new meta with ambition and high hopes. Surely, it will thrive vs many offensive teams as its bulk makes it very easy to set-up and sweep frail teams. The downside is that Arceus usually wants some chip damage on stuff before it can actually OHKO them, even with Silk Scarf. The chip damage might come from Stealth Rocks, and they are sure viable considering all the sashed mons. Really, Extremekiller will be great in this meta as well, I don't see how a Pokémon with a strong priority, great bulk, ability to sweep offensive teams, and ridiculous ease to set-up wouldn't be one of the best Pokémon to use here.

    Mewtwo- Mewtwo faces much competition from Latios in the current meta imo. I always prefer Latios as wallbreaker as it is more hazard resilient and has much more ease to come in considering its resistances. I know many people disagree with this comparison, but I am just putting it out here. Now with Soul Dew gone and a metagame where once again, switches are less prevalent, Mewtwo finds a great niche. Being fast, armed with coverage for days and an awesome special attack, Mewtwo can dish out serious damage. One thing to note is that Mewtwo isn't that frail, it can usually take a hit from some stuff.

    Darkrai- Obsolete here, sorry. The main niche Dark Void is gone :(

    Groudon- Amazing tbh. Flipping the tables and taking away the rain, enabling a set-up sweepers to get that free turn to sweep is cool in this format. It can also set rocks, although, I'd probably use a nice double Dance or RP set. The strong Earthquake is capable of 2HKOing so much stuff. Just have a method to break sashes so it can cleanly sweep though. Choice Band is also an interesting option, as well as T-wave+Swords Dance which provides team support and sweeping capability in one set.

    Palkia- As always, Palkia is a big threat and a great check to Kyogre too! Its awesome coverage is the main selling point here. Not much else to be said really, Palkia is amazing anyway. Just use it.

    Genesect- I don't know it can be as good as it is in Ubers, U-turning is not that great here but a special scarf-set can still do good cleaning.

    Dialga- Will probably be another of those really great mons here. The versatility it has as well as typing just owns. Scarf, specs, LO, SR are a couple of cool sets it can run efficiently here.

    Rayquaza- Rayquaza is usually cool vs stall, but has trouble against fast offense. A sash set is viable here, with Extremespeed serving as a failsafe to pick off opposing Focus Sashes. Good attacking stats, good coverage and priority makes Rayquaza a solid option. Also, checks weather sweepers which is great!

    Lugia- Opposed to contrary belief, I still think Lugia is a cool mon to use, but it is of course much worse in BW2 Ubers. In this 3v3 meta, filled with offense, a stall mon like Lugia might seem out of place. I think the opposite stands true here. Lugia will be epic here. SR being used, but less prevalent makes Lugia's multiscale something you can rely on even more often. Against offensive teams, Lugia has an ace in the hole: Thunder Wave which just owns so much. Paralyzing fast threats so slow hard hitters like Kyogre, Groudon, Kyurem-W etc can outspeed stuff is just amazing. And running Toxic on the same set is not only viable, but recommended in my opinion. Lugia will be cool here.

    Giratina-O- This thing has many options, ranging from the usual stuff, mixed sets, T-wave support and Tailwind! It also has priority which is important to pick off Focus Sashes.

    Ho-oh- I rather fancy Ho-oh in this meta as well. Well, it will probably not as good here as in regular Ubers as it can abuse Regenerator much more, at least if you prevent SR from getting up. Tailwind is really nice here, considering how battles finish faster than 6v6. Ho-oh also has Brave Bird+LO recoil to take itself out and let something else abuse the remainder of the turns.

    Ferrothorn- It is actually OK I think. Stealth Rocks are still good, and Iron Barbs can break Focus Sashes on stuff with contact moves. Since swift swimmers have a good niche, Ferrothorn gets a niche by checking them. It also has Thunder Wave, which is just great.

    Well, there is much more to discuss obviously, just wanted to put my stuff out here. Also, I am giving thumbs up for Custap Berry Skarmory. It can Taunt, phaze set-up sweepers and get up hazards of its own. I think it will be really great in such a metagame.
  4. Haruno

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    One thing that Hack overlooked is that there is no species clause. Also thanks to how fast paced the metagame is I really don't think giving up one of your three precious slots for a wall is worth it, it's fine in an actual battle where you have 5 other team members to make up for it, but considering that no matter what your team is there will be gaping holes.... I really can't see myself giving up one of those 3 slots for hazard support.

    I expect to see a ton of arceus parties though.
  5. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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  6. Haruno

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    Oh whoops, admittedly I went tl;dr at tmons link and didn't notice that species clause is intact. Regardless offense seems like the way to go since hazards simply won't have the time to rack up damage and you have to make use of your three slots to counter as many mons as possible, however no matter how well you choose your three mons there will be something you're weak against.
  7. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

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    whoops, should've refreshed the page

    SR will probably be usable if only as a way to check Ho-oh. Destroying Focus Sash and Shedinja would be a nice side bonus.
  8. Melee Mewtwo

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    Stall is boned so hard. In fact, to call this even Ubers is already quite a large stretch. (or at least, it is a very lame Ubers) Let me elaborate just how much Stall is boned and in how many ways it is done to it.

    Here are the key rules I want to talk about. (plus it is convenient for me in typing this post)

    The bring 6 and use 3 battle type expressed in the first two rules completely and utterly ruins any attempt to use Stall. By cutting the amount of usable Pokemon in half it becomes a lot more difficult to prepare defensively (as in have a switch in) for the many offensive threats in the metagame. Therefore, fast powerful attackers such as Mewtwo or next to impossible to OHKO mons like Arceus or Dialga become very useful, far more than Stall. Items such as Focus Sash and Choice Scarf are valuable to allow mons that are too fragile and/or slow to pull off similar feats while taking advantage of their own unique traits. (as in Water Spout spam) In short, the best offense is now the best defense. (fucking wannabes)

    Not only do you have less Pokemon to check the same amount of threats in a 3v3 but you also have less room for utilities such as Spikes setting, Spin Blocking and Spinning. When combined with the previously discussed issue, it is impossible for a tradition Ubers Stall team to function in this metagame. In general, this means that Spike stacking becomes less valuable as it requires two dedicated slots out of the precious little 3 that you are given. (although the bring 6 choose 3 does allow you to opt out of the Ghost type if there is no Spinner) On top of this, 3v3 is a lot faster so hazards have less time to really return the payment for the sacrifice used to set them up in the first place. However, it is worth noting that because of threats like Ho-Oh and MS Lugiass as well as the likely popularity of Focus Sash (even if it is for only one Pokemon) SR still remains a worthwhile investment. However, it is most effective on offensive threats like Deoxys A, Groudon or Dialga who can still participate in the battle aside from setting a hazard. (which is more of a team based move decision seeing as the turn spent setting up SR could be the turn spent breaking a Sash) With the de-emphasized hazards game, Stall just isn't worth using.

    Since hazards are no longer a significant force, brute force becomes the only force and so Stall is ruined. Additionally, since there is less room to switch around, being able to out-muscle the opposing Pokemon in a 1 on 1 skirmish becomes vital to success. Also to avoid getting carried by a CM sweeper (you can't really invest in the defensive backbone needed to take advantage of it's otherwise smaller damage output) using Pokemon with strong Physical attacks and/or extra obnoxiously strong Special attacks with the occasional Dtail/Roar filler is what most teams should focus on. Too bad Stall tries to be strategic in dealing with threats, you MUST have the brawn (with little brain) to succeed.

    Anyways, that is just the general gist of this metagame. For the most part team building is probably going to be centered around a combo of three with the other 3 slots being possible subs if you see specific threats that could break the combo in team preview. Stall obviously can't pull something like that off effectively.

    The level 50 rule is interesting since it does mess with some damage calcs and changes speed creeping (you can use HP Fire without losing the speed tie now). Nothing really metagame changing.

    No Soul Dew eliminates what could have been arguably the best two Pokemon in this metagame. Having that clutch bulk, instant obnoxious power, and built in mixed capabilities would have made a LatiTwin a staple for just about every team. (Genesect is a lot less valuable seeing as you don't have much to run to after hitting so that only really leaves Scarf Zekrom)

    The lack of Dark Void would have reinforced the LatiTwins as monsters by crippling Darkrai but I guess Nintendo just wanted to pass around the "Fuck You"s to everybody (mostly to Stall). Interestingly enough, there isn't Sleep Clause in this metagame so something like Chlorophyll Venusaur could wreck teams. (or Flutterby with Tailwind suicide lead) Abusing Sleep could very well become a legitimate strategy in this metagame, which would be another reason to not use Stall.


    Well that's all I can think of at the moment, may add more when it I think of something but I'm kinda burned out on the many ways Stall got screwed.
    NixHex likes this.
  9. Little Green Yoda

    Little Green Yoda

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    Let me guess: you really, really, really, really, really, really, really like stall.

    It's less of a "Fuck You" and more of a logistics issue - nobody wants to spend 30 minutes in a stallfest with animations, lag, etc. already prolonging a battle. Especially in a tournament setup that rewards players who finish battles quickly/efficiently. Maybe you should get off your high horse and have a more open mind towards a different metagame instead of complaining your preferred style of play is marginalized in this particular ruleset. Or you can continue preaching to the choir by writing another 5 paragraphs detailing every aspect of stall that doesn't work in an unique tournament that's meant to be fun.

    Choice Scarf and Focus Sash (along with the element of surprise) will be biggest factors as far as items go. With things like Lum/Chesto/resist berries not far behind. Strong, versatile, offensive cores with a defensive pivot or two will probably be the general template for most teams.

    And a 30 Speed IV for HP Fire still loses a speed tie against a 31 Speed IV mirror at level 50.
    The Wolf, Soul Fly and Hack like this.
  10. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo rip evuelf
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    Lol, it was an inside joke of sorts. Tmon asked me to post in the thread but told me to not just post about how Stall got ruined (because, yes, I really like Stall) or else he would make me change my avatar to something else again. (It was recently Spermtwo) So I was just teasing by stressing the many ways Stall got boned while at the same time using that to describe the general feel and differences of this metagame.
    Enguarde likes this.
  11. Haruno

    Haruno I choose you!
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    So what are some good 3 mon cores?

    I can see support thundurus as a good base though. Providing insane amounts of team support with prankster twave/taunt/tailwind. I can see banded trickceus working as well since it has nice immediate power and can cripple its main checks/counters bar terrakion.
  12. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime Sadly, the real world isn't the same as a fairy tale.
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    scarf smeargle
  13. Little Green Yoda

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    Well then, don't I feel foolish!

    I'm considering building around a Kyogre/Ferrothorn/Giratina(O) core since that worked in the last ubers wifi tournament (even if resistances probably matter more for rotations compared to singles) but I haven't had the time to really think about a team yet.
  14. Hack

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    We should not forget Trickroom teams here! As the majority of teams will be offensive, this style of play catches offense off guard and is really efficient considering that matches are short, meaning 5 turns of reversed speed can be really useful!

    Some cool TR supporters and sweepers are Bronzong, Groudon, Kyogre, Victini, Ho-oh, Dialga, Palkia etc. Also, I found an interesting lead set in this format:

    Smeargle @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 HP / 252 Def
    Jolly Nature
    - Fake Out
    - Spore
    - Taunt/Shell Smash
    - Stealth Rock/Baton Pass

    With Fake Out, you can take out the opposing leads sash, which is very useful. Also later in the game, if you saved Smeargle and if your opponent didn't have a sash lead, but instead another sashed Pokémon, Fake Out can pick off that mon as well. Spore is great since no sleep clause, so it is pretty self explainatory. The last two moves are up for grabs, either go full support with SR+Taunt, which can own Trickroom teams, should their setter carry a Lum Berry for instance. Stealth Rock is still useful as stuff like E-killer needs that chip damage to gurantee an OHKO on stuff like Kyurem-W and max HP Kyogre. But if you feel like it, Smashpass is simple and efficient, just beware of Lum Berries and stuff.
  15. Joim

    Joim Navigate the pitfalls, cross the great divide!
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    Hey, Ubers folks! We're adding the format as a ladder on PS so you can practise or simply have fun in this special Ubers format! Expect it to be playable soon. And, for those who will participate in the actual tourney, good luck!
    Soulgazer, Furai, Theorymon and 2 others like this.
  16. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Sounds good. Looking forward to it.

    Already got most of my team for the actual tourney set up too, though after my experiences in the rotation tourney, I'm not too worried about this one. So far I have Kyogre/Ferrothorn/Mewtwo/Lugia/Arceus, but I need a 6th. Any ideas?
  17. Level 51

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    Unfortunately, I foresee a ton of disconnects coming my way with the Liepard team I'm using... hopefully I don't get disqualified. I really want to take part in that XY tour ;_;
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  18. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Just play the minimum number of battles (5 or whatever it is) and run from each one. Before I scroll back up, I think it says you just have to play them, correct? Problem solved.
  19. Level 51

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    Yeah, but if your overall DC rate is too high you get disqualified anyway. That's why so many VGC players are up in arms over the current (lack of) anti-DCing measures.
  20. Professor Birch

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    My team is going to be exactly the same as the last Uber Tourney. It was very successful and it will get another go. I will edit this when I remember it.
  21. Brophlosion

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    I'm gonna bring Zekrom to counter Kyogre. You might wanna give it a shot
  22. syrim

    syrim 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1

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    The best two team archetype I can see here is a Groudon, Ho-oh, Palkia core.

    The reason being is that SR will be much less prevalent- defensive setters that aren't beaten by groudon will be pretty useless in the shorter games, all of the mons have the power to prevent opposing set ups, so you don't need to waste a precious slot on a scarfer, and you are unable to be ohkod and ohko a lot of the faster threats (eg mewtwo) in return.

    Another option is running a very fast, specially offensive team designed to not switch much, if at all. I would run ghostceus for sure, and maybe skymin or palkia, and lastly probbably a scarf kyogre or LO mewtwo. All of these threats outright beat things slower then them, and are countered by defensive mons that have little to no utility in a fast paced metagame.
  23. Arcticblast

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    A slow Kyogre and a decent Kingdra beats that core first core, and unless you've got one bulky Groudon there's not much it can do to stop EKiller Arceus... Sashed setup sweepers could also give both of those teams a run for their money, particularly something a bit bulker like Latias for the former and something like Agility Thundurus-T or DD Rayquaza for the latter.

    Thanks for letting me know that I don't have a solid Mewtwo counter though ;_;
  24. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Already have Ferrothorn. My 6th is currently Kyurem-W, but I might go with Kyu-B instead. It doesn't really matter to me. Not like their base 95 speed will be much of an issue. ;)
  25. LegendaryElitist

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    Man...I signed up a week ago, but I have no idea what to run. :|

    I've been testing things out on the ladder, though. Sash Terrakion is working great. Checks Arceus and defeats Smeargle if you carry Taunt (if they don't have Magic Coat lol).

    I'm thinking of running Sash Terra/ Rayquaza (for ss/chlorophyll)/Palkia/GhostCeus/Mewtwo/ something else. Would that work?

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