Metagame np: Stage 6 - The Boys Are Back

Status
Not open for further replies.
we will see if they actually decide it is.. If it is dropped thats a HUGE threat in the tier with some versatility in WoW and Taunt..
 

Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Well it's faster than hariyama, 80 isn't a bad speed tier. It's stronger than Hariyama and boasts a much higher Special Defense, not sure what that'll do in terms of an AV set but there are advantages over Hariyama. Steadfast and Justified are both quite cool niche abilities, particularly justified, not to mention Gallade gets swords dance which Hariyama doesn't, so there's that.

EDIT: it has a better movepool than Hariyama, has shadow sneak, Hariyama doesn't have Mach Punch so that's a weak argument.
 
Believe it or not, I would still use Hariyama over Gallade in NU. Speed is terrible, really fragile in hp & defences, no mach punch and its movepool is crap.
Hariyiama isn't Gallade most direct competitor though, it's going to be used mostly as an hard hitter, not as a bulky pivot.

Compared to Sawk, Gallade's most direct competitor, Gallade has better offensive typing, bulk and movepool(it's far from garbage lol, it has everything that Sawk has plus stuff like Trick, Drain Punch, Leaf Blade, Will-o-Wisp, Swords Dance and Thunder Wave) in exchange to a slightly worse speed tier(only really loses to the extremely rare positive speed natured Magmortar though) and ability(but Sturdy is already quite situational, and the sole reason for using Mold Breaker, Weezing, is rendered moot by Gallade's Psychic STAB).
 
Banded Gallade is going to be a huge threat if it actually drops. Thanks to its secondary STAB it can deal with mons like Garbodor and Weezing more easily as opposed to Sawk who needs to lock himself into EQ. There's pretty much no counter to Gallade in NU right now as a result of its Fighting/Psychic/Dark coverage all in one. You also have access to many utility moves like Destiny Bond/Memento/Taunt but for all intents and purposes the CB set and the SD set are top contenders. Scarf and Sub + Bulk Up are also viable sets it can run. Sawk still has perks over it with Mold Breaker and Sturdy but for the most part I see Gallade taking its spot.
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
I didn't know there was such a thing as a quick drop lol

Gallade is basically Sawk with much higher special bulk. And Swords Dance. G_G
 

Finchinator

-OUTL
is a Tournament Directoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Championis the defending OU Circuit Championis a Two-Time Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
OU Leader
Going to second Teddeh here.

Yes, a quick ban may very well be necessary and I'm not about to deny that one is necessary as Gallade's effect on the metagame and presence in the tier could very well be a blatantly broken one, but we don't know that yet. Generally speaking, we like to give a new pokemon a few days, if not a week, to settle in the tier and then we determine if action is necessary. Maybe this will be an exception to that rule as Gallade could be ridiculous, maybe this will fit into the aforementioned scenario and we could deem it broken in the near future, or maybe it will turn out to be perfectly fine and not broken in NU (seems unlikely, but still) - we won't know this if we don't give it some time, so I'd say that the best thing to do right now is test it out and then post your thoughts after doing so sufficiently.
 
We are not going to be pulling a mega pinsir. A quick ban may be necessary, but Gallade will be given a fair chance. Any posts demanding an immediate ban will be deleted and possibly infracted.
 

Rapture

I got so much time today
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Yea with SD, bulk up, and a pretty nice support movepool on top of a variety of attacking moves, gallade has all the tools at its disposal to potentially be a broken presence in NU. That being said, its low defense and speed might be enough to hamper it so that Gallade isn't over centralizing. Can't wait to try it out and see its effect on the metagame!
 
So I was complaining and punching my wall cause gallade is in nu until I was like man, shoot, Im just gonna random battle
Then I saw a god, in the shape of a balloon

Drifblim @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Destiny Bond

So we know all about colbur, it halves damage from dark yeah, so you can wreck gallade with acro, and outspeed everything that comes out next right after
I still wouldn't mind seeing gallade go as soon as possible but hey, we gotta deal with the cards were given
 
So I was complaining and punching my wall cause gallade is in nu until I was like man, shoot, Im just gonna random battle
Then I saw a god, in the shape of a balloon

Drifblim @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Will-O-Wisp
- Substitute
- Destiny Bond

So we know all about colbur, it halves damage from dark yeah, so you can wreck gallade with acro, and outspeed everything that comes out next right after
I still wouldn't mind seeing gallade go as soon as possible but hey, we gotta deal with the cards were given
banded gallade still kills with ice punch if you don't have EVs in HP, keep in mind, so to be a proper check you're losing out on either killing power or speed

e: and ofc, unless you have EVs in both HP and Def, there's still a chance for ice punch to OHKO
 
Last edited:

Orphic

perhaps
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Gallade can also smash Magneton into submission, so there's that, and it can take any hit from it ^
Through testing we'll have to see whether this is enough to keep Magneton in check. My initial thoughts:

Gallade isn't too overpowering for the meta at first glance, I've seen a number of things keep it in check quite well, particularly a rise in colbur berry Xatu straight away. The assault vest set is something that simply feels like a normal strong physical attacker in NU, it can't boost, it can only attack, and it's own mediocre speed tier keeps it in check for our favourites like Tauros and Archeops and Sneasel.

Gallade has the issue of not being able to run all it's moves it needs to cover everything. Ice Punch that it needs for Xatu will have to give way for Leaf Blade it needs for Quagsire, so there's one thing that's already hindering it for most people, however, you could argue this extreme amount of coverage means you have to bring multiple checks to Gallade on one team to make sure it doesn't rip your core apart (earlier I destroyed a Vileplume + Quagsire core with Zen Headbutt and Leaf Blade).

The biggest issue I can see arising is with the Swords Dance or Bulk Up sets, the boosters. Our typical fighting checks we've used for ages like Weezing and Garbodor are useless against Gallade's psychic STABs. However, old reliable Uxie, and Mesprit, Musharna, and the like, all keep it in check very well, so far as the damage they take from a Knock Off. The problem is after a boost, Gallade has the bulk to take down half a team in one go, let's review some calcs I've found:

+2 252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Torterra: 399-471 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (considering this is the common tort with Magneton around, another thing helping Gallade).
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 362-426 (83.6 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (bang goes my theory of this keeping it in check).
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 256-303 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this is incredible power, at max hp max def).
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 312-368 (93.6 - 110.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Prinplup: 255-301 (76.8 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Anyway yeah those are my initial thoughts, I'm feeling like it's scarier on paper than in practice because of it's speed and blatant limitations. But if I feel like I'm forced to run far too many checks then I'll be forced to call for a ban on this guy, it's all wide open still.
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
Gallade has the issue of not being able to run all it's moves it needs to cover everything. Ice Punch that it needs for Xatu will have to give way for Leaf Blade it needs for Quagsire, so there's one thing that's already hindering it for most people, however, you could argue this extreme amount of coverage means you have to bring multiple checks to Gallade on one team to make sure it doesn't rip your core apart (earlier I destroyed a Vileplume + Quagsire core with Zen Headbutt and Leaf Blade).
Wait why would Gallade ever need Ice Punch? Even Sawk didn't need Ice Punch for Plume anymore once it had Zen Headbutt to strike all Poison-types in the tier. Knock Off deals with Xatu just fine, especially after a boost. As for Quagsire, Leaf Blade is honestly just a luxury and funky lure, because you could always try Life Orb:

252+ Atk Life Orb Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 218-257 (55.3 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 199-235 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 84.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery, 2HKO after SR

The immediate standout point about Gallade is its sheer versatility, which makes Mesprit look like a damn chump, so I'll review the likely sets:

- The Swords Dance set eclipses Sawk; the boosting move (and by extension freedom to switch moves), high Special Defense, and even its universal anti-Poison move being non-contact (Psycho Cut) make it a far better core/wallbreaker than Sawk could ever hope to be. Even Colbur Psychic-types are iffy stops because Gallade can either plow through the Colbur with SD, or simply buff up unboosted Knock Off to regain its damage output; Gallade not being weak to Psychic does not help matters.
- Sub + Bulk Up exchanges SD's immediate sweeping power for far greater sustain, and when its Substitutes are bulky enough to survive Vileplume's Sludge Bomb, you know it is no slouch at finding setup opportunities on bulky Pokemon.
- Choice Band only needs like 3 attacks to punch holes into pretty much everything, with either some random filler move or Trick laying the finishing touches to cripple anything that would want to take its attacks.
- Choice Scarf is going to be a serious threat to offense (and kick Scarf Sawk to the curb lol) and also needs only 3 attacks, plus if team matchup is unfavorable Scarf Gallade could always get rid of the Scarf with Trick.
- Assault Vest could very well be an annoying tank, surviving attacks you wouldn't expect it to and Drain Punching its health back; can easily strike paranoia into players that intend to finish off Gallade with special attackers.
- Now I'm not too sure what set(s) would best incorporate this, but Gallade's wide pool of supportive and disruptive options cannot be ignored: moves such as Taunt, Encore, and Will-O-Wisp can catch opponents off guard, while moves like Destiny Bond and Memento can just throw you off in general.

Keep in mind this is still one Pokemon we're talking about, and just one of its several possible sets outclasses a top rank mon (Sawk) already. Gallade would undoubtedly be one of the most frightening mons NU would have to extensively deal with.
 

ManOfMany

I can make anything real
is a Tiering Contributor
Through testing we'll have to see whether this is enough to keep Magneton in check. My initial thoughts:

Gallade isn't too overpowering for the meta at first glance, I've seen a number of things keep it in check quite well, particularly a rise in colbur berry Xatu straight away. The assault vest set is something that simply feels like a normal strong physical attacker in NU, it can't boost, it can only attack, and it's own mediocre speed tier keeps it in check for our favourites like Tauros and Archeops and Sneasel.

Gallade has the issue of not being able to run all it's moves it needs to cover everything. Ice Punch that it needs for Xatu will have to give way for Leaf Blade it needs for Quagsire, so there's one thing that's already hindering it for most people, however, you could argue this extreme amount of coverage means you have to bring multiple checks to Gallade on one team to make sure it doesn't rip your core apart (earlier I destroyed a Vileplume + Quagsire core with Zen Headbutt and Leaf Blade).

The biggest issue I can see arising is with the Swords Dance or Bulk Up sets, the boosters. Our typical fighting checks we've used for ages like Weezing and Garbodor are useless against Gallade's psychic STABs. However, old reliable Uxie, and Mesprit, Musharna, and the like, all keep it in check very well, so far as the damage they take from a Knock Off. The problem is after a boost, Gallade has the bulk to take down half a team in one go, let's review some calcs I've found:

+2 252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Torterra: 399-471 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO (considering this is the common tort with Magneton around, another thing helping Gallade).
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 362-426 (83.6 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (bang goes my theory of this keeping it in check).
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino: 256-303 (62.4 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this is incredible power, at max hp max def).
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Psycho Cut vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 312-368 (93.6 - 110.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Prinplup: 255-301 (76.8 - 90.6%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Anyway yeah those are my initial thoughts, I'm feeling like it's scarier on paper than in practice because of it's speed and blatant limitations. But if I feel like I'm forced to run far too many checks then I'll be forced to call for a ban on this guy, it's all wide open still.
Gallade actually probably has the least 4mss ever in an offensive pokemon. Close Combat hits everything hard except resists, Zen Headbutt deals with Poison, Knock off deals with ghosts and psychics (including Colbur Xatu cause that can't do much back). It literally doesn't need anything else.

...

A thing that I thought was interesting is Fighting Spam cores. At first I thought that the viability of pokemon like Sawk would drop quite a bit, but I discovered if you pair another fighting-type with Gallade on an offensive team they can break through each others' checks and counters.

For example, SD life orb Gallade with poison jab can break through Mega Audino, Togetic, and Granbull for Scarf Sawk so it can sweep.
Or Choice Band Primeape with Gunk Shot can break through Fairies or Quagsire for a sweep with Substitute Bulk-Up Gallade.
 

Syncrasy

Change the game, don't let the game change you
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
fighting spams are cool but they have to be weary of flech as it can OHKO most of your fighting types with acro, but in general Fighting spam look s p cool rn if u can take care of its counters
 
I'm in favor of keeping Gallade until a suspect after Magneton. Let's all be real here, we know it's getting banned. No one is legitimately sitting around going, "You know what NU needs? To get shit all over." We all know it's going rather it be through a quick-ban or a delayed suspect test (because this thing is so unhealthy it couldn't be banned fast enough) I mean Colbur Berry Xatu is actually a fucking thing because of it, and it STILL GETS ITS SALAD TOSSED QUITE UNPLEASANTLY BY THIS BEHEMOTH. Gallade is a fucking cancer of a mon. It's incredibly unhealthy for the tier and realistically should go immediately. I simply don't want it to go just yet. Why?

I WANT TO ABUSE THIS MONSTER.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
I'm in favor of keeping Gallade until a suspect after Magneton. Let's all be real here, we know it's getting banned. No one is legitimately sitting around going, "You know what NU needs? To get shit all over." We all know it's going rather it be through a quick-ban or a delayed suspect test (because this thing is so unhealthy it couldn't be banned fast enough) I mean Colbur Berry Xatu is actually a fucking thing because of it, and it STILL GETS ITS SALAD TOSSED QUITE UNPLEASANTLY BY THIS BEHEMOTH. Gallade is a fucking cancer of a mon. It's incredibly unhealthy for the tier and realistically should go immediately. I simply don't want it to go just yet. Why?

I WANT TO ABUSE THIS MONSTER.
ok nice post but
1: Nobody said we were going to quickban Gallade before the Magneton suspect test
2: Gallade is not such a big threat to the meta that it warrants a quickban while a suspect test is still happening anyway
3: If you feel like it is super overpowered and ought to be quickbanned, provide arguments rather than just shouting "LOL BAN THIS THING XD"
4: Nobody's going to realistically keep something banworthy around because you want to abuse it, so why bother posting?
5: Colbur Xatu was viable before Gallade dropped??? It's like, a pretty standard item???

Everybody's free to post, and I encourage anyone to do so, but... make sure you actually add something to the discussion. If everybody's just going to say the same things and not provide new arguments, points of view, etc, we'll end up with a clusterfuck of a thread, and I don't think anyone would want such a thing. Also, some meta knowledge wouldn't hurt either (if you don't know the standard sets, that's not a very good look).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top