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A / Command, /PPcheck

Discussion in 'Pokémon Showdown!' started by tehy, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. tehy

    tehy

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    Hey everyone.

    Ever been in an important battle, and wanted to check on the PP of a move? Well, you could scroll up and browse the log, ask your opponent, or even paste it all into a Word file and use Ctrl+F. So, you can do it. But isn't that all... a little tedious? And who really wants to do that all the time? Enter my suggestion, /PPcheck. Essentially, /PPcheck would take something you can already basically do (Totals are easy to find, then just subtract), and make it into something much easier to do.

    How would it work? Well, you'd go... say... /PPcheck, Latios Surf. If you've already seen it use Surf, then it'll tell you how many PP the opposing Latios has. It's important that you have to see it first, otherwise you could scout an entire moveset. Alternately, it could tell you even if it hasn't used it, but even if it doesn't have it at all, or even have the ability to learn it. That's an easier alternative, but I don't like the idea that players might think they can cheat and feel like they know the opponent's moveset.

    Problems? Well, even though the only real barrier is effort, it's significant enough to BE an actual barrier. If people would prefer it to be actually difficult to do this, then... I guess? I see the value behind this, although it's really not such a bar in an important match, and why limit it in an unimportant match?

    Stuff like Custom Games and Hackmons without Species Clause will have to be abandoned for now, since 2 of X pokemon might mess up the count. Likewise, we might have to do without Leppa Berry, Healing Wish, and Lunar Dance being factored in, but those are all medium-rare at the least. If it got bugged and would tell a move regardless of if it was already used, that would be disastrous-well, if someone found out before it was corrected.

    I'm not sure how we would tell new users about it, which could be a problem. But hopefully it would spread from word of mouth, or at least most of the smogon people would know.

    All right, enough from me. Let's see some input. Is this too difficult to program? Is it not worth the time? Or do you think that such a thing should be done manually? Weigh in, programmers and PS players.

    And the first reason is here, although partially produced by my all-too active mind:It'd be almost impossible to do on-cartridge, although I hadn't actually thought of this yet. If that's a significant enough deterrent, then *shrugs*

    Edit: You know, I thought this might be a reaction. I don't, though, because you can already do it via the logs. If you're suggesting that, because it can't really be done in-game, I suppose I see the argument behind that.


    On the other hand... the whole log aspect is near-impossible ingame anyhow-you'd have to keep a log, and of course you'd... have to draw out the HP or approximate it somewhat. So we already do something similar that takes even more of the competitive aspect out of the game, even recording the exact range of damage done, whereas you might have to remember it before.

    I get your argument, and I actually expected it and respect it.

    Double Edit: I forgot to mention, if this does happen. I'd like a command /ppcheck (Pokemon) that shows, say: 45; (3/4), with the first being total PP of moves displayed and second being amount of moves displayed.

    Triple Edit: Yay, an agreer. I agree about that part personally, I kind of wish it happened, although generally i have memorized most competitively viable moves' PP's.

    To be honest i mostly did this on the old PO so 5 minutes, but i have mildly thought that it might be a problem here and you confirm that
  2. Mizuhime

    Mizuhime dreams can come true, but nightmares are dreams too
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    Doubles Queen

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    not knowing your opponents PP is part of the competitive aspect of the game, it makes you actually have to keep track of the little things in a battle, this command would be beyond stupid imo
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I love this feature, tbh. Nothing sucks more than attempting to count PPs during an important match while the battle timer is ticking. If you have a slow computer, it can be particularly lethal.

    Speaking of PPs, the /data [move] command should also inform the move's maximum PP.
  4. tehy

    tehy

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    My post is becoming engorged so another one here.

    Actually pocket's kind of works against mine because now it kind of IS impossible to check effectively, although you could do it over a few turns as long as you see it in advance and CopyPaste+CtrlF would still do the trick, most likely (Maybe not if a lot of other pokemon used it, although you could get the specific Pokemon used Move sequence.)


    Edit: Just thought of something.

    Exeggutor, by your logic, shouldn't ALL /data commands be 'beyond stupid'? I mean, as of right now, I can literally request information on every single stat of an enemy pokemon, its type, and its ability, as well as specific moves it learns with another command, /learn. I can also check exactly how any given item works. This also goes for the message that shows 'likely ability, etc.'

    So first off, I no longer have to remember its TYPE. Next off, I no longer have to remember its ABILITY. After that, i can forget all about its MOVES. I can throw SPEED TIERS out the window, too. And i don't have to remember ITEMS, either. I even know exactly what FIELD CONDITIONS there are and how they work.

    The little things? For god's sakes, we've already thrown all the big things out the window! Know why? Because someone realised that 'whoops! This is the internet! People have access already, and this is for fun. So why not just give it to them'. You're basically trying to limit the free flow of information that's already there just so that people won't have it and will have to keep track of it. I also have to wonder if, eventually, someone might not create a program similar to a calc, that auto-searches and finds the amount of PP for you anyhow in the log. Although that might never happen.
  5. tehy

    tehy

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    All right, so I'm double posting to bump this.

    I'd just like to know what people are thinking here. Exxegutor definitely has a point that it transfers a mental function from us to the computer, and thus lowers the amount of skill that impacts the game. On the other hand, it makes something hard much easier. Pick your side, please?
  6. Rowan

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    Although this information is readily available to us, it could be argued that it takes away some of the skill. For instance, a skilled player might be able to judge from the circumstances that a pp stall will take place and start counting earlier, whilst someone with less ability in long-term thinking might not, and therefore be at a disadvantage.

    That said, the less-skilled player will just look back up at the log and count, it would just take more time.This is a good idea and like you say, we have a lot of information available to us that PS makes easier such as how many times the opponent has boosted. If we were playing on cartridge we might have to count how many times the opponent has boosted in a calm mind war but PS just shows it. The same could be applied to a PP checker. I don't really think there's too much of a strong argument against this, unless the programmers would have trouble with it.
  7. shnen

    shnen שוני
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    you don't need to paste it into a word document to crtl+f it
    it's literally quicker to type crtl+f move than /ppcheck move, so I really don't see any use for this
  8. Himanattsu

    Himanattsu

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    yes, highlight the whole battle log, then ctrl-f move, always works for me. even if there are multiple pokemon using the same move in a set of turns, it shouldn't be hard to deduce which ones matter to you
  9. tehy

    tehy

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    Actually they've got a strong point, Crtl-F "The foe's Pokemon used (X Move) would work pretty well.

    I think /PPcheck might be a little faster, though.

    I think that Ctrl-Fing a battle log won't work on older comps, because I tried this a while ago and no luck. But newer computers might be able to deal with it, so in that case there really isn't much of a need for it at all. *Shrugs*
  10. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    ctrl+f is very annoying if 2 or even 3 pokemon have the same move because you'll still have to count. In that situation /ppcheck would be a much quicker way to do it.
  11. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    This is not available in the game, so it will not be available for ps. Case closed
  12. NixHex

    NixHex No excuses
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    Wait, what the hell? Do you realize how much we've broken this precedent? Have you not read the back and forth (luckily now resolved) discussion on HP percent vs. pixels in which people argued the same ridiculous argument against GUI featured that PS offers that aren't available on the DS? You know, like a cancel button and the log itself? This command would offer the same such convenience. I see absolutely no problem with this besides the difficulty in programming such a feature (this coming from a programmer with very little JS or web-based programming experience), although I have faith in PS's developers that they could implement it should they decide it's important.

    edit: unless you're being sarcastic or trolling in which case -- didn't you quit?
  13. tehy

    tehy

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    Heh, I totally forgot about bringing up the cancel button.

    Seriously, we've done plenty of stuff not available in the game because it makes the game better or more convenient. Why stop now? It's not like we're altering a gameplay mechanic.

    The real problem I see is that if Ctrl-F on the log works for everyone, they can search a specific pokemon using an attack or even any attack and find the results. But, this moves me to my next point:

    I'd also like to implement /ppcheck Pokemon. That gives you a result that tells you how many PP a pokemon has left on all of the moves it has used. Otherwise you'd have to do 3 searches, so that speeds it up a little.

    By the way, Zarel, since you're viewing this:Would this be hard at all? I assume it wouldn't, but hopefully it wouldn't accidentally show PP of unrevealed moves, that could be really bad.
  14. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon judges silently
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    i have, in more serious battles, gone back through a log to count opponents' pp. unless we want to remove the log from the game, this is simply a matter of convenience

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