Magic Bounce/Taunt definitely helps with prediction, but even switching neutralizes the effectiveness of the set. I feel it requires too much set-up to use consistently, M-Absol being so frail.
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Pokémon Absol
- Thread starter Adamant Zoroark
- Start date
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At +2, Sucker Punch OHKOes Talonflame, who never runs Jolly. Meanwhile, if you run Naughty, you lose to Talonflame 100% of the time as Brave Bird is a solid OHKO. Losing to Talonflame is utterly unacceptable on any sweeper. Also, I would rather lose to some Keldeo/Terrakion (if you run Naive) than lose to all of them (if you run Naughty.) Also I do not like your Rotom-W calc; if Rotom-W is running a defensive set it is going to be a physically defensive one, not a specially defensive one, which is 2HKOed at +2 regardless of nature. Bulky attacker is OHKOed after SR at +2 regardless, and Scarf Rotom-W is OHKOed at +2 without SR.
You really are undermining the significance of beating Talonflame. Last time I checked, Talonflame was at #2 in the usage statistics, so losing to it is a pretty big deal. Sure, with Naughty you get more security against certain threats, but that comes at the massive opportunity cost of losing to Adamant Talonflame, and you need to ask yourself if it is worth it. I say it isn't. Talonflame is simply too significant.
He gets it from Pokebank. It's incompatible with Play Rough, which is why it's not seen as often.
Honestly, Rough Play isn't all that great, and certainly not compared to the value of Knock Off. Even on the main offensive sets, I'd much rather have Knock Off, especially considering how much most Pokemon hate it. If you want a really good coverage move that is also compatible with Knock Off, there's Superpower and Thunderbolt.
Even with the stat drops, absol really can't tank the incoming hits very well
Thanks for responding to my post LucaroarkZ. I appreciate your analysis, I wanted someone to prove me wrong. I knew Talonflame was extremely common, but I wasn't aware that he was #2 on the usage statistics.
I would agree with you then. Outspeeding Talonflame is invaluable for a sweeper if he has the chance to do so and kill it with priority. Also, Naughty does provide security against a number of threats... But it's just that, security. It doesn't help "guarantee" many OHKO's. Whereas Naïve guarantees winning against nearly every Talonflame and non-scarfed Keldeos and Terakions.
I'm excited now since I managed to breed a 6 31 Naïve Absol, so my breeding efforts weren't for naught. The biggest problem my team runs into is anti-stealth rock tactics like defog. Since eliminating stealth rock makes Mega Pinsir, Mega Charizard X and other sweepers much more threatening for Absol. Any advice?
I'm currently trying out Landorus-T as he can OHKO most Defog users with Stone Edge. I'm looking at you Mandibuzz.... hate that pokemon.
The mere presence of a Bisharp on your team or something else with defiant is usually enough to discourage defogging or just make them be very careful with it
I'm not sure if someoe has already posted something similar (I can't be asked to read 14 pages of posts) but a specially biased mixed set is great, I have one on my sun team that me and my friend use from time to time.
Absol
Item:Absolite
EVs:252spatk/252spe/4atk
Naive nature
Move 1:Sucker punch
Move 2:Dark pulse
Move 3:Fire blast
Move 4:Ice beam/Superpower
This set works great as it catches physical walls of guard and the strong uninvested sucker punch leads them to think you are physical. Surprise isn't the only reason it is good, it actually has great special attacking stats. Sucker punch is a must on this set as Absol needs the priority (It also helps bluff the physical set). It hits harder than you think. Dark pulse is the main STAB move. Fire blast is there because a lot of walls are weak to it. Ice beam is there as a lot of the OU tier is 4x weak to it but Superpower can be used for it's good coverage alongside Dark pulse and Sucker punch.
Absol
Item:Absolite
EVs:252spatk/252spe/4atk
Naive nature
Move 1:Sucker punch
Move 2:Dark pulse
Move 3:Fire blast
Move 4:Ice beam/Superpower
This set works great as it catches physical walls of guard and the strong uninvested sucker punch leads them to think you are physical. Surprise isn't the only reason it is good, it actually has great special attacking stats. Sucker punch is a must on this set as Absol needs the priority (It also helps bluff the physical set). It hits harder than you think. Dark pulse is the main STAB move. Fire blast is there because a lot of walls are weak to it. Ice beam is there as a lot of the OU tier is 4x weak to it but Superpower can be used for it's good coverage alongside Dark pulse and Sucker punch.
Hello, first post and since I've read through all the pages, I just have a few questions to clarify and maybe help lots of people put everything important about Mega-Absol in one spot!
I really want to try to raise a lovely Absol, but like most Megas, the team needs to form around it and it needs support to succeed.
CLEAR POINTS
(These can be looked over to make sure I have everything right!)
- Justified > Super Luck > Pressure
- Naive / Hasty > Naughty / Lonely / Rash / Mild
- Sucker Punch > Knock Off > Night Slash, on certain sets
- NOT a sweeper; must be a late-game cleaner/anti-hazard
- Base Absol is pretty much useless; Mega-Evolve it IMMEDIATELY
- Need support/great teammates to get rid of threats as it cannot take a hit
- Don't pit it against Lucario. EVER. Or any priority user it cannot outspeed/kill with Sucker Punch in that matter.
- Shines with Baton Pass support
NOT SO CLEAR POINTS
- Can it be a revenge killer?
- Play Rough > Superpower pre-bank, Superpower > Play Rough after bank
- Swords Dance + 3 moves
- Protect + 3 moves
- Snatch + Superpower + Sucker Punch + 1 legal coverage move (since other moves such as Play Rough are illegal on it... or so I think)
- Max EV investments on both Attack and Speed
- Magic Bounce is activated on the exact turn of Mega Evolution (still not sure on this, I really need a direct answer on this)
QUESTIONS
- M-Absol so frail that it sometimes fails to set up Swords Dance accordingly. This implies that sometimes it may have to come in and ME at a later time. Question is- when is it the safest for regular Absol to Mega Evolve: as the lead, near the beginning (like if somethings was Baton Passed to it), or when all of its threats are eliminated and can somewhat come in at any time comfortably to clean up?
- Also, I feel that M-Absol is a bit more tricky for the user to utilize more that the opponent to predict, one being it's useless as its base form and shows that it is Mega immediately, and that it may only have Sucker Punch to deal with threats faster than it on the turn of ME, and two being the opponent may just switch out for a better Pokemon to deal with it. This goes with the above question- how do you catch the opponent off guard if they know about M-Absol's quirks and checks for the turn of Mega Evolution to compensate for its current Speed, is it all just constant switching to catch the opponent with M-Absol?
- Have viable is Snatch on M-Absol? I haven't seen its uses written out yet, nor have I seen the pros and cons of it, as it does lose a few coverage moves when it also has to carry Sucker Punch. What set would you use Snatch on?
- Play Rough vs. Superpower- I see that one is good on certain sets while the other isn't and vice versa. Say that Poke Bank is FINALLY out, which is better for coverage purposes, and on what sets? (No need to write out Ev spreads and such on this, I just need a preview on the uses of both and where you would use it, because I'm torn. )
- Is Swords Dance and/or Protect really good on M-Absol? I read that Protect is a bit unnecessary due to Sucker Punching threats that may outspeed it on the turn of MegaEvolution, and it's hard to set up Sword Dance with how frail it is. Is the only way to actually utilize Swords Dance it to come in on a good switch (aka Prankster that can't do anything to it) or to perhaps Baton Pass a Swords Dance onto it every time so it can even come in and Sucker Punch a threat with ease?
- Does M-Absol need Baton Pass, or can it just be a receiver from the likes of Scoliopede with its Swords Dance, Speed Boosts, and even its Iron Defenses? Also, is Screen Support necessary on M-Absol, or is it a waste due to its Defenses?
- Is investing in HP necessary and on which sets would you do so? I usually ALWAYS invest some HP into my Pokemon, but alas, everyone says it can't really take a hit with its frailty, and that's nothing but the truth, so do we just abandon all hope with its defenses and go for Attack and Speed? Also, if an Absol carries a Special Move, should anything over 4 points be invested to it, or just focus on Atk/Spe?
- My most important question (even though it is at the bottom woops), what EV investments must a Naive Absol need to outspeed a Talonflame? Should it carry something like Thunderbolt/Rock Slide to counter it, or is Sucker Punch all it needs?
NOTABLE MOVES/NOTES
- Snatch is TM49 from Generation III to Generation IV (Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, FireRed/LeafGreen - Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, HeartGold/SoulSilver) and it a tutor move in Generation V (Black/White/Black2/White2)
- Baton Pass is an Egg Move (easily obtainable by Eevee/its evolutions, Mawile, etc.)
- Play Rough is an Egg Move (Linoone just needs Heart Scale, learns it at Lv. -, while Mawile can pass down both Play Rough and Baton Pass)
- Iron Tail is TM23 from Generation II to Generation IV, and is a tutor move in Generation V
- Future Sight is a Level Up move, learned at Lv. 36
- Me First is a Starting and Level Up move, learned at Lv. -- / Lv. 60
- Tutor Moves can NOT be passed down like Egg Moves
- LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT TIERS EVER AGAIN PLEASE. It was annoying as hell just READING that lol
Thanks a lot in advance for anyone that happens to read this, answer this, or even answer a few questions they like to point out on this! I want to use Absol so bad, but it takes a lot of work, skill, and lots of prediction and luck to use it without fail as I can see, and I want to make sure I can count on such a powerful and beautiful Pokemon! c:
I really want to try to raise a lovely Absol, but like most Megas, the team needs to form around it and it needs support to succeed.
CLEAR POINTS
(These can be looked over to make sure I have everything right!)
- Justified > Super Luck > Pressure
- Naive / Hasty > Naughty / Lonely / Rash / Mild
- Sucker Punch > Knock Off > Night Slash, on certain sets
- NOT a sweeper; must be a late-game cleaner/anti-hazard
- Base Absol is pretty much useless; Mega-Evolve it IMMEDIATELY
- Need support/great teammates to get rid of threats as it cannot take a hit
- Don't pit it against Lucario. EVER. Or any priority user it cannot outspeed/kill with Sucker Punch in that matter.
- Shines with Baton Pass support
NOT SO CLEAR POINTS
- Can it be a revenge killer?
- Play Rough > Superpower pre-bank, Superpower > Play Rough after bank
- Swords Dance + 3 moves
- Protect + 3 moves
- Snatch + Superpower + Sucker Punch + 1 legal coverage move (since other moves such as Play Rough are illegal on it... or so I think)
- Max EV investments on both Attack and Speed
- Magic Bounce is activated on the exact turn of Mega Evolution (still not sure on this, I really need a direct answer on this)
QUESTIONS
- M-Absol so frail that it sometimes fails to set up Swords Dance accordingly. This implies that sometimes it may have to come in and ME at a later time. Question is- when is it the safest for regular Absol to Mega Evolve: as the lead, near the beginning (like if somethings was Baton Passed to it), or when all of its threats are eliminated and can somewhat come in at any time comfortably to clean up?
- Also, I feel that M-Absol is a bit more tricky for the user to utilize more that the opponent to predict, one being it's useless as its base form and shows that it is Mega immediately, and that it may only have Sucker Punch to deal with threats faster than it on the turn of ME, and two being the opponent may just switch out for a better Pokemon to deal with it. This goes with the above question- how do you catch the opponent off guard if they know about M-Absol's quirks and checks for the turn of Mega Evolution to compensate for its current Speed, is it all just constant switching to catch the opponent with M-Absol?
- Have viable is Snatch on M-Absol? I haven't seen its uses written out yet, nor have I seen the pros and cons of it, as it does lose a few coverage moves when it also has to carry Sucker Punch. What set would you use Snatch on?
- Play Rough vs. Superpower- I see that one is good on certain sets while the other isn't and vice versa. Say that Poke Bank is FINALLY out, which is better for coverage purposes, and on what sets? (No need to write out Ev spreads and such on this, I just need a preview on the uses of both and where you would use it, because I'm torn. )
- Is Swords Dance and/or Protect really good on M-Absol? I read that Protect is a bit unnecessary due to Sucker Punching threats that may outspeed it on the turn of MegaEvolution, and it's hard to set up Sword Dance with how frail it is. Is the only way to actually utilize Swords Dance it to come in on a good switch (aka Prankster that can't do anything to it) or to perhaps Baton Pass a Swords Dance onto it every time so it can even come in and Sucker Punch a threat with ease?
- Does M-Absol need Baton Pass, or can it just be a receiver from the likes of Scoliopede with its Swords Dance, Speed Boosts, and even its Iron Defenses? Also, is Screen Support necessary on M-Absol, or is it a waste due to its Defenses?
- Is investing in HP necessary and on which sets would you do so? I usually ALWAYS invest some HP into my Pokemon, but alas, everyone says it can't really take a hit with its frailty, and that's nothing but the truth, so do we just abandon all hope with its defenses and go for Attack and Speed? Also, if an Absol carries a Special Move, should anything over 4 points be invested to it, or just focus on Atk/Spe?
- My most important question (even though it is at the bottom woops), what EV investments must a Naive Absol need to outspeed a Talonflame? Should it carry something like Thunderbolt/Rock Slide to counter it, or is Sucker Punch all it needs?
NOTABLE MOVES/NOTES
- Snatch is TM49 from Generation III to Generation IV (Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, FireRed/LeafGreen - Diamond/Pearl/Platinum, HeartGold/SoulSilver) and it a tutor move in Generation V (Black/White/Black2/White2)
- Baton Pass is an Egg Move (easily obtainable by Eevee/its evolutions, Mawile, etc.)
- Play Rough is an Egg Move (Linoone just needs Heart Scale, learns it at Lv. -, while Mawile can pass down both Play Rough and Baton Pass)
- Iron Tail is TM23 from Generation II to Generation IV, and is a tutor move in Generation V
- Future Sight is a Level Up move, learned at Lv. 36
- Me First is a Starting and Level Up move, learned at Lv. -- / Lv. 60
- Tutor Moves can NOT be passed down like Egg Moves
- LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT TIERS EVER AGAIN PLEASE. It was annoying as hell just READING that lol
Thanks a lot in advance for anyone that happens to read this, answer this, or even answer a few questions they like to point out on this! I want to use Absol so bad, but it takes a lot of work, skill, and lots of prediction and luck to use it without fail as I can see, and I want to make sure I can count on such a powerful and beautiful Pokemon! c:
I dunno, it seems like a novelty poke which relies entirely on prediction and practically dies to anything it can't ohko. It takes up a mega slot and forces the whole team to sync with it too. I'm not saying that it is useless, but i would see it performing better in uu where it is much more offensive than in ou, allowing it to ko a larger number of threats
If i were to play mind games i would use megawaifu, but mobsol can't be statused directly so i guess that's a plus. Then again most defensive pokes have either scald, lava plume or stoss so they would rather use that than to risk statusing themselves...
If i were to play mind games i would use megawaifu, but mobsol can't be statused directly so i guess that's a plus. Then again most defensive pokes have either scald, lava plume or stoss so they would rather use that than to risk statusing themselves...
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Actually, I've found that it's best to make a team first, then include Absol. I think the best way to utilize M-Absol is as an anti-hazard / revenge killer, late game cleaner. Since all of his roles are so situational it's best to not build a team around him. Instead, try putting 5 Pokes together that have great synergy then add in M-Absol. That way you're not relying on him to do one specific job or multiple jobs at the same time. When you add him to an already solid team he becomes more flexible and can do what he needs to at that moment in time, in that specific battle.
Im really afraid to use him tbh, those defenses...D;
When i send him out he better clean up in one hit or he bites the dust
I'll try that out then, any examples of core partners?
Well, just about any core should do. On my last team with Absol I had a defensive core of Ferrothorn + Florges and used a scarfed Rotom-W as a pivot. The extra chip damage from Ferrothorn's Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet, Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, and Volt Switch helped out a lot in wearing down the opponent's team. Even though my main "sweeper" on that team was Talonflame, Absol provided good support by bouncing back things like Stealth Rock and taking chunks out of opposing Pokemon. Also, if I ever needed to it could have been a cleaner or revenger.
What I'm trying to say overall, I guess, is that people should start viewing and using M-Absol as more of a heavy-hitting support Pokemon with revenging and cleaning capabilities instead of trying to build teams around it and trying to sweep. I'm sure everyone would be more satisfied with Absols results and performance then.
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Could you give any more recommendations for a defensive core or viable pivots?
I'm running Suicune and Roserade who formed a pretty viable defensive core. I am thinking of using CB Talonflame with U-Turn as partial pivot. I also use Aegislash to break down walls.
I'm thinking of replacing Roserade though, since my team has no answers to M-Venusaur at all... Any advice guys?
I'm running Suicune and Roserade who formed a pretty viable defensive core. I am thinking of using CB Talonflame with U-Turn as partial pivot. I also use Aegislash to break down walls.
I'm thinking of replacing Roserade though, since my team has no answers to M-Venusaur at all... Any advice guys?
Scizor, Specially/Physically defensive Rotom-W, Lando-T, and just about anything bulky with a slow U-Turn or Volt Switch is what I would consider a defensive pivot. Also, mixed tanks like Deoxys-D, Assault Vest Tangrowth, and Assault Vest Slowbro would be considered defensive pivots as well. You can check out the "Good Cores" thread for some cool and effective cores.
I'm curious to know what set you think will be Absol's best for sweeping post-pokebank now that it's finally released in the United States. These are the three viable sets I'm having a difficult time deciding between.
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Night Slash
Play Rough
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Knock Off
Superpower
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Play Rough
Fire Blast
I'm actually have the most success with the night slash set surprisingly. But each set has it's merits. The Fire Blast set allows you to hit M-Mawile and Klefki on clean 2HKOs. Both common switch ins to Absol, but not extremely common on the ladder.
The second set runs Knock Off, Absol's strongest attack post-pokebank. It effectively 2HKOs every single pokemon in the game at +2 as long as they don't resist it. And Superpower/Knock Off are great options to have without Swords Dance since you can kill Tyranitar, and Knock Off items on switches. However Superpower hurts you're sweeping potential by lowering your attack. The defense lower makes you easier to kill by the few priority moves that don't already kill you.
The final set with Night Slash and Play Rough gets the best neutral coverage, with Night Slash as a reliable option against tanks trying to heal through your Sucker Punches. This makes mind games with Charizard Y, and Rotom-W much easier. But sacrifices the most power.
Have any of you had experience using these sets, and which do you think is most viable in our metagame? (I think this should be taken into account when listing Absol's sets.)
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Night Slash
Play Rough
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Knock Off
Superpower
Swords Dance
Sucker Punch
Play Rough
Fire Blast
I'm actually have the most success with the night slash set surprisingly. But each set has it's merits. The Fire Blast set allows you to hit M-Mawile and Klefki on clean 2HKOs. Both common switch ins to Absol, but not extremely common on the ladder.
The second set runs Knock Off, Absol's strongest attack post-pokebank. It effectively 2HKOs every single pokemon in the game at +2 as long as they don't resist it. And Superpower/Knock Off are great options to have without Swords Dance since you can kill Tyranitar, and Knock Off items on switches. However Superpower hurts you're sweeping potential by lowering your attack. The defense lower makes you easier to kill by the few priority moves that don't already kill you.
The final set with Night Slash and Play Rough gets the best neutral coverage, with Night Slash as a reliable option against tanks trying to heal through your Sucker Punches. This makes mind games with Charizard Y, and Rotom-W much easier. But sacrifices the most power.
Have any of you had experience using these sets, and which do you think is most viable in our metagame? (I think this should be taken into account when listing Absol's sets.)
Could a Super Luck crit set be viable for a (non-Mega) Absol?
Super Luck, combined with a Scope Lens and a high-crit move will always result in a critical hit, which is effectively a Life Orb boost without the health drop, and ignoring defense boosts/attack drops.
A potential set could be:
Night Slash
Psycho Cut
Stone Edge
Swords Dance / Knock Off / Sucker Punch.
The first three attacks would get the full crit chance. Swords Dance could be used as an additional attack bonus. Knock Off or Sucker Punch could also be used for their powerful effects, though they'd only recieve 50% crits.
It's a shame Absol can't learn Focus Energy, or else he could get crits and a Life Orb boost.
Super Luck, combined with a Scope Lens and a high-crit move will always result in a critical hit, which is effectively a Life Orb boost without the health drop, and ignoring defense boosts/attack drops.
A potential set could be:
Night Slash
Psycho Cut
Stone Edge
Swords Dance / Knock Off / Sucker Punch.
The first three attacks would get the full crit chance. Swords Dance could be used as an additional attack bonus. Knock Off or Sucker Punch could also be used for their powerful effects, though they'd only recieve 50% crits.
It's a shame Absol can't learn Focus Energy, or else he could get crits and a Life Orb boost.
Slow and can't take a hit. As a huge fan of the critter, even I must confess that if it weren't for his Mega no one would even be thinking about him right now.
He's at his best when mega evolved early but switched out for a defensive core immediately and conserved for clean-up. Magic Bounce switches aside, he's a masterful cleaner.
It's called a mega evolution, Nintendo picks a pokemon that is already overrated/neverused then gives it absurd stats and a very strong ability. Another example would be Charizard who gets large attack stats and Drought/even more attack power. I hope they dont get added to gen 7.
Or they give it to a Pokemon nobody uses in a serious context, and gives it a much-appreciated boost. See also Kangaskhan, Mawile, and Aggron.
But yes, some of the choices were them just piling love onto creatures that didn't need extras.
Aw, darn. I guess that leaves Kingdra as the only really useful crit-user at the moment.
Ok true, some pokemon needed a subtle rework. Aggron is under appreciated as a def.tank being x4 weak to fighting and ground. Mawile had barely any good stats so a boost with a mega version on top of adding the new fairy type was worth considering, but it wouldnt be much work to just evolve her once.
But Kangaskhan's is just BAD. She has some good stats now but when making them better they also give all her attacks the ability to hit for 1.5 the damage AND it happens in a way where it counts as 2 hits. Not to mention power up punch got added the same generation. So to make Kangaskhan viable they needed to add a max attack of 383(x1.5 and breaks through substitute), an attack that when used by her would count as a sword dance, and the only real drawback is it costs an item slot. I hope it was their intention to boost Kangaskhan into ubers cause otherwise no one's ever going to use her.
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