UD
BeerLover
The Definitive ADV Viability Rankings, by UD
Hi all!
I feel like this is as good a time as any to update the ADV VR. We are currently at the onset of the Grand Dead Period for the tier, post-Callous Invitational and pre-SPL. I would like to record a snapshot of my thoughts on the tier's standing so that we may check back in again during next SPL.
The format will be roughly the same as those who have preceded me, however I am going to lump certain Mons together when I don't feel I can differentiate within their respective sub-tiers. You'll see what I mean when it comes up.
I think my opinions will mostly align with the other players. I don't anticipate as many outlandish opinions as I had when McMeghan compiled the new rankings last time around.
Without further ado, here is the list:
S Tier
The tier revolves around Tyranitar.
This Mon is the best in the tier, no questions asked. Its presence and influence is so strong that there is a massive subset of teams designed just for the mere REMOVAL of this guy. You could name 10 strengths for every single weakness of this mighty behemoth. Blessed with arguably the best movepool in the tier, the best stats in the tier, AND the best Ability in the tier, Tyranitar is so good that if you aren't using it, you need an excellent reason why.
Tar has handled everything the tier has thrown at it with aplomb. No matter how many anti-Sandstorm strategies develop, Tyranitar will still be there right at the top, capable of contributing in every game. That is a true testament to this Mon's prowess.
S- Tier
Teams that can not handle this threat in a multitude of ways are not OU viable.
Gengar has undoubtedly fallen from its cream of the crop, God-tier, most-broken-thing-in-ADV status in recent times. There have been countless tier shifts geared towards making this thing worse, and they have by and large succeeded. Who else remembers back when Gengar 1v1'd Offensive Starmie with ease (T-bolt OHKOs with a Spike down, after all)? Who else remembers when Claydol's usage was at an all-time low? When Celebi didn't use a Calm nature? When Salamence didn't stand a chance in Hell at surviving your Ice Punch, but you lived its +1 HP Flying comfortably? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
So why do I still have Gengar placed so highly in the rankings? Because it can still succeed at everything it is meant to do by virtue of its incredible stat distribution, movepool, and typing. Also there is still technically no counter to Hypnosis Gengar with Spikes down. Aero is the only thing faster that won't switch in to a Hypno Gar (I think my most hated sequence in all of ADV is switching Jolteon into Gengar as its Hypnosis hits and they hard switch Dugtrio on the following turn), meaning that it basically needs to come in on a revenge kill attempt. Also, for the Claydol spam these days? Try Destiny Bond Gar. You will not be disappointed. Virtually guaranteed a kill, if not more, EVERY game.
A+ Tier
Game changing Mons that would be expected to see on a vast majority of teams.
(Not ranked in order. I view all of these Mons as equally powerful / viable.)
Probably the single best "glue Mon" in the tier. You can slap it onto any and every team, tweak its EV spread and moveset minimally, and be good to go. I have always loved how the old standard of Ice Beam / Hydro Pump / Earthquake / Protect can function as two entirely different sets if you just give it a little Speed and a +SpA nature. Bump it up to 275 SpA and this thing's Torrent Hydro will just shred everything in the tier that doesn't resist it or is named Blissey. Speaking of the fattest blob that ever lived - watch out for Focus Punch from this thing. Pert has always been criticized for its lack of offensive firepower, a criticism I never understood. Hell, even the Dex standard 40 SpA stat can really chunk a decent portion of the tier.
Anyway, this dude just flat out patches defensive holes in your team. I will not listen to any argument that Pert isn't at worst a top-10 Mon in the tier.
The greatest "Offense Enabler," as Asta puts it, Metagross finds itself firmly entrenched as an A+ tier dude. Meta combines incredible offensive potential with an amazing defensive type and ridiculous physical bulk (pro-tip: add a splash of SpDef on your max HP Leftovers Metagross, you won't regret it). His movepool is also nothing to scoff at. Try some of his more overlooked moves; he can pull off almost any moveset imaginable provided you have an open mind.
I feel like Metagross would really border on S tier if it weren't for the existence of Zapdos. Yes, MagTrio are a huge thorn in Meta's side, but Zapdos is the real problem since it's just always walling you and always 2HKO'ing you. Really frustrating matchup. Otherwise, Metagross is insanely good.
P.S. try Protect on the Leftovers set the same way you would Swampert. It's great!
Ugh. I know I catch a lot of flack for this, but I really think Blissey is just totally overpowered. She just flat out invalidates so many teams it isn't even funny. I know it can be sort of a momentum sink if you're always on the backfoot and Softboiling every other turn, and that is a significant drawback. But the amount of shit it can just 1v1 with ease is insane.
Nothing is more frustrating to me than to bring, say a CM Spam + Dugtrio team against Blissey, pull off a successful Spike sac into my bulky Adamant Dugtrio against their Blissey, fire off a 55% EQ and be rewarded with a Counter for my troubles. Bam, game over, because you are never killing this thing. That's Blissey in a nutshell for you.
A Tier
Extremely influential Mons in the tier, all of whom can exert both offensive and defensive pressure, usually at the same time.
(Not ranked in order. I view all of these Mons as equally powerful / viable.)
Triangles made a fantastic point up above regarding Zapdos. If you just build a top-6 Viability Rankings team, you will end up with an extremely strong Spikes team, good against the entire metagame as a whole. Except for... the glaring Zapdos weakness.
Zapdos is the king of good matchups. If it's a SpDef set with Rest, some SkarmBliss teams are just utterly incapable of killing it. If it's a Modest Zapper with HP Grass, it's damn near impossible to switch into with your typical Skarm + Gar + Tar + Pert outfit that lacks a Blissey. The mixed set is incredibly potent too. With Drill Peck + HP Grass, you have almost flawless coverage. The only drawback is you can't run max Speed on this set, which is something Zap really likes to do (though is less important in the absence of HP Ice). There's really nothing like blasting away with 383 SpA Thunderbolts with three layers of Spikes down. Oh and did I mention soft checking Metagross and Gyarados and revenge killing annoying shit like Modest Moltres? Zapdos is the real deal.
The only reason I hesitate to put it in A+ tier is that even very Zapdos weak teams often have a way of finagling themselves out of the rough matchup. Stuff like Tyranitar just always soft checks you provided it has Rock Slide and the bulk to take two Thunderbolts. Metagross also happily Explodes far too often for my liking. But Zap is absolutely a top tier threat in the metagame, and I don't ever see that changing.
Sometimes there's just nothing like a good old fashioned Bold Celebi with Calm Mind. The most unkillable mixed wall in the tier with two of the best moves in the tier on the same moveset? What's not to love? Unfortunately mono-Psychic is pretty terrible coverage (if you go mono-Grass then your chance of sweeping is even worse because of the shit that still hilariously walls you when you're at +6), and dropping Calm Mind means you don't actually present a threat of late game sweeping. There's also the whole Skarmory issue, not that that can't be overcome (watch Asta for inspiration here, seriously).
It's also kind of tough picking between the PhysDef and SpDef route. PhysDef is surprisingly pretty bad against Gengar and Starmie again, whereas SpDef means you start taking a lot from stuff like Meteor Mash and Snorlax Body Slam, etc. The Dugtrio weakness is there but it isn't the worst thing since most Celebi squads usually have something pretty nasty for an HP Bug locked Dug. Don't sleep on this underrated beast.
Perhaps the most centralizing Mon in the tier, Skarmory is so outrageously good at what he does that you need a damn good reason to even consider using a different Spiker. ProTox with 252 HP / 252+ SpDef is still the best set, but like it always does, the metagame caught up with it. The advent of Refresh Claydol has made Skarmory's life considerably tougher. It has become so popular, in fact, that Drill Peck (or Taunt + Toxic) is starting to become standard on Skarmory.
So while Skarm is in a bit of a transitional phase, making a tough call to run the old fully SpDef set and run the risk of being blanked by Refresh Claydol, or use Drill Peck and be worse in most of the non-Claydol matchups, it still puts them up like nothing else.
You can hilariously snipe the person trying to snipe you, by bringing HP Ground / Drill Peck OR Taunt + Toxic Skarmory against MagDol, or SkarmMag, and just utterly roll over the opponent. You of course end up with a much worse Skarmory when you don't get that matchup, but it's give and take. Attack boosted Drill Peck also has the benefit of hitting Gengar really hard, which is a nice bonus treat.
I'm not as high on Skarmory as everyone else is, because of the counterplay available to it. I feel like Spiking up has never been harder, and exerting offensive pressure via Toxic + Protect has never been less effective. But still, Skarmory is an essential part of many great ADV teams today.
When you think about it, Jirachi fits a pretty unique profile as a special attacker. It's one of the only ones with either a Normal or Flying resistance, which is hugely important in the Aero matchup, and it's one of the only (the only?) Sandstorm immune one. Jirachi can go as fast as 328 with Ice Punch and be a sweet Salamence / Flygon revenge killer, it can go Modest with Dugtrio bulk and HP Grass + Fire Punch, or it can go very fat with Wish + CM + Psychic + Fire Punch or Thunderbolt. And that's just the CM options.
Unfortunately, while it CAN run any of the previous sets, it can only do so one at a time. Typically when you see one damage calc. or one move from the Jirachi, you can infer the rest of its set and identify the appropriate counter. That's not to say it isn't still amazing.
Its biggest drawbacks will always be the annoying Tar / Meta / Aero / Snorlax (to an extent) syndrome. That is, something fat or fast that can tank you and blow you away with Earthquake. It's also pretty lame how Claydol walls you lol. Oh well.
I'm tempted to place this beast a little higher just as a slap in the face of all the Mence haters around. DD has been and always will be this guy's best set. Do not underestimate it!!! Guess what a byproduct of the Refresh era is? Mons are dropping Ice coverage. Salamence and Flygon, enter stage right. Anyone else played that Hariyama / Claydol / Skarmory / Blissey / Dug / SpDef Zapdos team before? It folds to a +1 DD Mence if you packed your trusty Magneton.
A lot of people are ditching crucial Normal / Flying resists, or Mons like Gengar on their stall teams. DD Mence should be there to pick up the pieces.
Don't forget about its insanely strong CB set (try Wish passing to it, a la BKC), or its MixMence set (plenty of variants around).
A- Tier
Expect to see these Mons on a huge majority of teams. They are all pivotal to the OU metagame in one way or another.
(I will attempt to rank this sub-tier in order.)
I think Starmie is incredibly potent. When you factor in its coverage, this thing hits like a truck. It looks one dimensional at a glance, but the fat Spin set is actually pretty damn good, and you can't really rely on your SpDef Gengar against the Offensive version since they might carry Psychic and if you're running the Giga Drain + Fire Punch coverage then you come well short of OHKO'ing. I also love how a full HP Starmie conveniently tanks +1 Mence and Gyara, and Aero.
This sounds obvious, but I think what holds Starmie back the most is that Hydro Pump is only 80% accurate. It could be so much better if you knew you'd always hit. You can always try HP Grass if you wanna win the 1v1 against Pert, just make sure you have another way to chip Gengar because your Hydro Pump is never killing it. The other huge knock against this guy is its secondary Psychic typing is actually pretty horrific, and it still can't switch in on hardly anything in the game.
To me, Flygon is the most underrated Mon in the game right now. The whole DD Ice Beam Tyranitar thing was completely overblown. Yes, ProTox Impish Flygon has gotten considerably worse. Perhaps to the point that it isn't even worth using anymore. But that set required a hell of a lot of support as it was, and it's not like using your Swampert with Spikes down against DD Tar is that much worse than the Spike-immune Flygon. Also Claydol conveniently became pretty good against DD Tar once again. So there is still plenty of counterplay to DD Tar within the metagame, Flygon included. Good time to mention that it is foolish to rely on Impish Gon 100% for opposing Tar just in the event that you come across an Ice Beam one. But that is hardly reason to stop using it altogether.
Let me fill you in on a trade secret. Substitute + three attacks (HP Bug is mandatory. I prefer Rock Slide as the 4th) with an Adamant nature is one hell of a set. With 327 Att and 299 Speed you are at such a sweet spot in the tier. You do a huge chunk to Pert and Milo, both of whom likely dropped their Ice Beams in favor of Refresh. You absolutely blow away Refresh Claydol. You serve as a great Jirachi and Celebi answer, particularly the latter as most people for some reason do not even scout for HP Bug against a Leftovers Flygon. This set is a must try for any ADV player.
Choice Band is still fantastic, it just requires more team support than the Sub set, as predicting what move to click against, say a Gengar, Swampert, and Celebi is incredibly tough to do. But if you can trap the Gengar and Skarmory, then not much stands in the way of just mashing CB Earthquake.
The catalyst to almost every fast-paced Skarm + Gar team, Jolteon can be a gamebreaking presence. Sure it finds itself in some extremely tough matchups, for instance it's sadly horrible against SpDef Zapdos, or anything that clicks Thunder Wave. But there's really nothing like a well-played Jolteon Spikes team. I think this is another underrated threat. It cleans weakened teams extremely well, affords your offensive squad one switch into Gengar, which is usually all you need, and of course makes your opponent think twice about clicking their strongest move in most situations.
Probably the worst thing about Jolteon is that its presence on the battlefield usually telegraphs the rest of the team. It's also a tad weaker than you want it to be, particularly when facing a <50% Tar or Metagross. But at the end of the day, there's almost nothing that counters a perfectly played Roar Jolteon with three Spikes down (damn you Claydol).
The metagame has not been kind to Snorlax for as long as I've been back in the game. Utility Lax is disgustingly weak to Skarm + Gar + Tyranitar, and CurseLax requires a whole cast of supporting Mons in order for it to shine, and it still only takes one crit from the opposing Zapdos to ruin your sweep.
That being said, there's almost nothing like a Snorlax outside of Sandstorm. The Utility set in particular is just so fantastic against something like a CM spam or special offense. You can also cater your set to removing particular threats (Counter for Metagross, Focus Punch for Tyranitar, Curse + Selfdestruct for both + Skarmory). The problem of course is that you need the right set in the right game, which requires a bit of good fortune in the matchup department.
Snorlax is really hard to rank for me given the expected range in outcomes for a given match. Some games you only get to switch into Blissey once, Body Slam into Gengar (because remember you must predict correctly on the FIRST turn when Sandstorm is out), and then pray for the 25% WoW miss chance, or else you're just done. I think middle of A- tier sounds about right.
The other poster child of the Great-Outside-of-Sandstorm-Brigade, Suicune is another Mon with a huge range of expected outcomes. I just don't see this dude having a consistently successful run in ADV. If you are using the stronger Rest CM Roar set, then you've gotta keep it healthy all game while also removing the opposing Snorlax or Meta, because you are never winning with a last Mon Cune while those two are around. If you're using the offensive set with Substitute, then you get boned by Sandstorm and opposing Suicune. If you're using the offensive set with Roar, then you get boned by Milotic, faster Celebi to an extent, faster Zapdos to an extent, faster Suicune with Roar, and Blissey.
I don't want to shit on Cune too much, though. It is obviously an amazing Mon capable of turning around games better than anything in the tier. Cune can do some utterly incredible things that nothing else in ADV can even come close to. For instance, Bold Cune just CMs alongside a CurseLax or Utility Lax, and forces the trade eventually (unless there is ridiculous paralysis hax). Stuff like that is just incredible. But too often it doesn't do shit, Rests once, and then is dead weight the rest of the game cuz you're not waking up ever unless you double switch perfectly three times in a row.
Claydol is the extremely rare Pokemon that is fantastic against standard TSS, and pretty bad against everything else. So where do you rank a Mon that has almost ZERO utility whatsoever outside of the Skarm + Gar matchup? Well, owing to the fact that completely shutting down Spikes is such an absurdly good weapon against those teams, I think bottom of A- tier sounds about right.
Unfortunately it's just so bad against most of the rest of the tier - does a few things nicely still, however. It pivots Electric Mons great, though it doesn't hurt Zapdos in return without Explosion. It's a great Jolteon and Jirachi counter. Does well against all non HP Bug non Crunch Tyranitar. Does """okay""" against Metagross if you outspeed it and invest heavily in Att. It's pretty underwhelming overall outside of the TSS matchup. But still, if you don't prepare for Claydol when using Skarm + Gar, then you're just shooting yourself in the foot.
Dugtrio just barely earns a spot in A- tier for me. While it can be almost unfairly good (broken?) in some games, it's also such an absurd liability in other matchups that it is honestly ridiculous. I don't care that every game should be analyzed in the same context as the rest of them. When you lock yourself into EQ and then DD Mence clicks DD once and just blows you away, that makes my stomach turn lol.
Some games you don't even get to trap anything, you sure as hell don't switch into anything - I guess you can pivot Zapdos lol - you just do... nothing. Well my philosophy is that I want value out of everything I bring every game. It's unrealistic to think that you'll get a good matchup every game you play. But I don't like Mons that are guaranteed from T1 to not have an impact whatsoever in the game. Dugtrio can have that effect.
As a real life example, consider Superman. I know it's not the most popular team right now, but realistically what is Dugtrio doing against a lineup of Skarmory / Zapdos / Gengar / Flygon / Swampert / Tyranitar? The Tar is usually Pursuit so if it came in to trap a Gengar then it probably did its job already. Plus now you have to switch into one of the Flying dudes, all of whom are super dangerous with a Spike down.
Tough to rank such a singular Mon like this for me. It can be brutally good (I would like to mention that "Dugtrio weak" teams shouldn't really exist by nature since they would have addressed said weakness), or it can do absolutely nothing.
B+ Tier
Very potent Mons that can be expected to contribute in some way every game.
(I will attempt to rank this sub-tier in order.)
Placing Aero outside of A tier entirely seems sinful. However, I'm quite down on Aero lately. The move Protect is still everywhere, Steels are everywhere, not to mention if you run into an AstaRachi then you are just in for the worst time ever. It has become quite difficult to put yourself in a position where you can just click Rock Slide and hope for the best with a reasonable chance of pulling it off.
However I will never count this thing out because if you DON'T have a Wish Jirachi then anything could happen. 30% of the time, it flinches every time.
Moltres seems like a hardcore mid to low B rank Mon to me at first shake. But I can't ignore its offensive potential. The Fire STAB + WoW combo is gamechanging. It's the single reason I have to think long and hard any time I make a team with three Fire weak Mons, which is actually super easy to do considering Celebi lends itself to Skarm + Metagross or Skarm + Magneton cores so well. Basically when you do a Skarmory + Grass core, you know the Rock resist is gonna end up being Metagross (increasing the likelihood of a Magneton) or a Swampert. So now you've got either three or four Mons that might be OHKO'd just by this guy. Scary stuff!
However, Moltres obviously has huge problems with Milotic, Suicune, Blissey, and Pursuit Tar sorta. It also doesn't switch in on much, and is revenge killed by quite a few Mons. However it does the extremely cool thing of switching in mostly risk free against Metagross, and always threatening an OHKO. Very very cool indeed.
Another Mon that everyone loves to hate, I love to love Gyarados. I share Triangles' sentiments that Gyara is a defensive Mon first. It has some awesome switch ins in the tier, can punish its own switch ins brutally with Thunder Wave, and occasionally finds the game (say against Cune / Dug / Claydol type stall) where it can DD up safely and just shred.
He fits a great defensive profile on teams that need something that can switch in on opposing Waters and also be okay against physical dudes. Many offensive builds appreciate that role compression when they otherwise can't really switch into Swampert, for example.
I'm a big Venusaur fanboy, everyone knows that. I admit that it's really tough to put this guy in a position to be very successful. The original bulky and slow Sludge Bomb / Grass move / Leech Seed / Sleep Powder set came up pretty underwhelming. It was too slow to take advantage of Sleep Powder, didn't have reliable recovery to take advantage of its bulk, etc. The new age offensive set with HP Fire was really quite nice for boning Steel + Water + Rock cores, however it really missed the bulk when facing off against Electric Mons.
I think I have struck the perfect balance of a new spread where you invest heavily in Speed (its best attribute when combined with Sleep Powder and Leech Seed) and bulk, with a dash of offenses mixed in. This new set has been performing wonders for me, and it's really impressing me overall. Venusaur is quite tanky and deals respectable damage when you take into account all the switches it forces. I really like building around this Mon and think it's a legit option for mid-range balances to more offensive squads that want an Electric answer combined with good anti-lead Mon.
I know it's en vogue to say Forry sucks, but I honestly don't think it's that bad. It's a legit option against opposing Skarmory teams, particularly SkarmMag if they lack a Pursuit Tar. Sometimes it nearly autowins games if there's no Gengar and the Skarmory can't touch it. Plus Bug STAB is actually really nifty. It makes Forry one of the single best answers to Celebi in a 1v1 scenario.
You of course need to build your entire team around supporting this guy, but you can say that about other OU Mons and that doesn't prevent them from being effective. I am kinda high on Forretress overall.
B Tier
Important Mons in the OU metagame. Must be accounted for in the teambuilder. They can fulfill a niche better than anything else, but have drawbacks in their games.
(I will attempt to rank this sub-tier in order.)
I'm honestly not a huge fan of Heracross. It has an absurdly high ceiling with Salac sets, though those are incredibly unreliable with Sandstorm in play. You also live and die by Megahorn accuracy, which is a huge obstacle to overcome. I used to think Leftovers sets were busted and these amazing stallbreakers. However, after trying them out myself quite a bit, I noticed that these sets are dead freaking weight against a Salamence that's faster than you (they all should be imo). Also Skarmory carry Drill Peck much more frequently than they used to, meaning your +2 Fighting move might be all for naught.
My favorite thing about the Leftovers set is that it's the only Mon that really comes to mind that can just switch in on a Swampert, Milotic, or Cune, and handle the 1v1 on its own. It's the only physical attacker that really does that, not including Snorlax, who is outsped. I love that aspect of it. Otherwise, this Mon is very flawed in my opinion.
I was admittedly far too high on Weezing last time around. I still view it as a very solid second-tier threat, one which will often put you on your heels as soon as it comes in on your Skarmory. However, despite its prowess at picking apart SkarmBliss teams, Weezing is definitely not without flaws.
The biggest issue for Weezing is that there are some games when you just have no good opportunity to even bring him in. Some teams on paper threaten Weezing from every angle. Consider a typical mixed offense that goes MixMence / MixMeta / Tar / Snorlax / Swampert / Zapdos. At minimum three of the six have a 100% guaranteed 2HKO on you (and Metagross probably OHKOs), Snorlax threatens Paralysis on your switch in, the Tar set might be Lum and usually your best move against it is WoW or maybe HP Grass, and Swampert probably has loads of SpA on that type of team. That happens fairly often with Weezing. Your best case scenario here is pivoting into the Zapdos or Salamence HP Grass and then Exploding. While that's not necessarily a bad outcome, it's not really a good one either.
And that's the crux of the issue with good ol' Weezing. While it's better (HOT TAKE ALERT) than Gengar at spreading WoW due to its ability to hit Natural Cure Mons significantly harder, it lacks the Speed to be hugely threatening game in and game out.
Really up and down Mon for me. While Cloyster has some awesome attributes, it often just comes up short of contributing much. I do love how good it is against classic SkarmMag teams. STAB Ice Beam is also really nice for smacking Zapdos and Celebi switch ins. It's also refreshing to have a Mon that will always be 100% reliable against physical Salamence and Flygon. But the whole package just doesn't do it for me.
A fun "What If" to play is "what if Cloyster had mono-Water typing?" Ah, what could have been.
Not much to say. Just as simple as this: it's very good at accomplishing its task when facing a Skarmory. And when you're not facing Skarmory, chances are you won't do shit.
I'm finally throwing Milotic a bone. The only Mon that sucks more momentum out of your gameplan is the one ranked directly below this. Milo is so horrifically slow-paced that it almost moves in reverse time. It's also imperative that you pack anti-Skarmory measures (simply having Refresh isn't really enough in case they have Taunt and also they're still gonna lay three Spikes on you), and anti-Tyranitar + Aero measures.
Milo has some awesome attributes though. The Refresh set can literally be impossible to kill for standard SkarmBliss. And if you actually decide to use Hypnosis, then you can prevent the Boomers from accomplishing their goal. Milotic's Surf also hits pretty damn hard, which is useful against things like Jolteon and Zapdos switching in on you.
The other momentum sink of the tier. P2 is notoriously awful at attracting all of the hardest shit in the tier to switch into. But it's really good at switching into Flygon!
What can I say. P2 counter traps Dugtrio extremely well, thereby allowing your grounded armada to do their thing. It is quite a good enabling Mon. However, in some games it causes significantly more harm than good (and Thunder Wave is not a permanent solution since that usually means you dropped Toxic and therefore added another Mon that gets its ass eaten by Blissey). I am really not a fan of this guy whatsoever, but some teams require its presence.
B- Tier
These Mons can operate independently and achieve their roles with moderate success. However, they all have exploitable weaknesses or flaws.
(I will attempt to rank this sub-tier in order.)
I still think Hariyama's best niche is being the single best answer to any and every Tyranitar out there. You OHKO any and all Tyranitar forever and ever with 0 Att Cross Chop. You tank +1 EQ with relative ease and take absolutely NOTHING from its special moves. It's really the prototypical Tyranitar counter.
Knock Off is always great, and you've usually got two free moveslots to work with. Plenty of options there too, just make sure you are either Wish passing to it or Resting yourself, as you're gonna want to keep this bad boy healthy.
Also gotta mention the offensive sets as being somewhat interesting, though I think I would prefer Machamp in that fat offensive Fighter role.
Houndoom is to Gengar what Hariyama is to Tyranitar. Yeah Houndoom is definitely the best thing available for any Gengar. Of course you can still be ruined by Focus Punch or just trade with Explosion, but that's more testament to Gengar being awesome than Houndoom being flawed. Houndoom also does the very cool thing of stone cold walling Celebi and Jirachi, which is a super neat trick.
Overall though, Houndoom blows. It weirdly has a horrible 4MSS due to wanting both of HP Grass and Ice, as well as WoW. Pretty lackluster Mon when it's not trapping Gengar.
Vaporeon has a solid niche on absurdly hardcore stall teams. It can Wish pass and clear the opponent's boosts with Haze. It also hits really hard with Surf, OHKO'ing Aero almost 70% of the time even uninvested.
It can also play some fun tricks with SubPass and hit hard with Hydro Pump + Ice Beam and a Modest nature. However, that means you'll be taking up to 50% from something as innocent as a Swampert Earthquake, so be prepared for the consequences.
Sorry Triangles, you aren't selling me on this. I can't get past how hard it is for this guy to actually sweep teams. One game in a Sandless environment against a non-Seismic Toss Blissey will not change my mind. An absurd portion of the metagame can tank his hits at neutral and OHKO in return. Calm Mind once and only Swampert drops from that list. Calm Mind twice and now you've caught my attention. But wait, the opponent is allowed to attack while you're CM'ing...
Just not buying Raikou as a legit threat. Every OU team ever counters it organically. If you want to do the whole Dug + weather clearing + ten other things for Tyranitar with Raikou in the back, then sure it'll probably work. But so will Alakazam, Jynx, Mr. Mime, Entei, and Espeon.
I'll give credit to Raikou for being really good at switching into Gengar early game. Definitely earns props for that.
Regice looks great on paper. STAB Ice Beam with Thunderbolt coverage, access to some nice utility moves, great stats all around. But then you use it in game and realize that a lot of the current metagame actually walls BoltBeam + weak ass Fighting moves, and when you're stepping on one Spike + Gengar's Thunderbolt / WoW / Fire Punch, then you aren't really even forcing Gar out more than twice in a game. Pretty underwhelming Mon overall. I guess it's good at luring Blissey and finishing off with Dugtrio. But even still you are probably more likely to get the Jirachi / Tar / Metagross instead, leaving the Blissey alive and well.
C+ Tier
These Mons are still very proficient at specific roles, but they require quite a bit of team support around them, or else the right matchup to succeed.
(I will attempt to rank this sub-tier in order.)
Pretty scary Mon in the right matchup. When you lead Skarmory against a Jynx lead, and your best switch in is Tyranitar, then you might lose right on the spot. However Jynx goes with Lovely Kiss's accuracy, since every physical move in the tier is a clean OHKO. Pretty boom or bust Mon here.
I actually like Breloom. Its STAB Fighting moves are extremely powerful and its HP Ghost can even OHKO some Gengar. It can even pull off a pretty brutal SubSeed set, as its Focus Punch just annihilates two fairly common Mons who'd try to phaze it (Skarmory and Swampert). Watch out for dual status too.
Maybe not as good as it once was when Taunt WoW Gengar was all the rage, but it's still a nice answer to Electric Mons and of course Gengar. Has a strong Boom and reasonable coverage moves as well. Try Quick Claw + HP Ice for extra fun.
Pretty decent as a last Mon on a Jolteon Spikes team. It really needs a CM in order to sweep though, and status obviously ruins it. Mediocre overall.
Giving Kingdra the nod in C+ since it's pretty alright defensively, and has a lot of offensive firepower. However, its SpA isn't as high as you think (only base 95), it's pretty slow outside of Rain, and it's really Aero vulnerable.
I actually love Rhydon. Its EQ is up there for the strongest move in the tier, it has access to Swords Dance, and at +2 it just nukes everything in its path. However, you need to Paralyze darn near everything in order for it to outspeed anything, and a whole fleet of Mons just effortlessly OHKO him. Defensively though he's quite good. He lives Dugtrio from full even with 0/0 bulk 87.5% of the time, and takes Aero's moves quite well, providing the ever useful Normal + Flying resistance.
I can't really judge him fairly since I've yet to use him yet, but Marowak is obviously capable of plowing through shit. However, between the two Mons who want everything in sight paralyzed, I'll take Rhydon for the better defensive type and STAB Rock Slide.
Better than people give it credit for. Decently fast plus all the moves at its disposal. STAB Explosion hits hard.
Regirock makes an outstanding bulky Water lure, and it even has enough special bulk to live things like Starmie Hydro Pump most of the time with max HP investment. But it's really slow and has to Explode on most things to kill them. It's great against Aero though.
I'm ranking Ludicolo below Kingdra because it's actually pretty easy to OHKO this guy, unlike Kingdra. On the other hand, Ludicolo can utilize pretty effective Leech Seed sets, so it gets points for versatility. Pretty average Mon overall.
Unbelievably strong. The best thing about Medicham is that when it hits its target, it can actually OHKO them. The best example of this is hitting Gengar on the switch in with Shadow Ball and watching them just drop. However, it's slow and has atrocious bulk.
Just a worse Salamence in every single way. Has an exciting movepool but its Speed hinders it a lot. Also it can't OHKO Aero which is bad.
C Tier
These Mons are extremely flawed individually, but with the right amount of team support, may perform a certain role better than their overall better counterparts.
(I will attempt to rank this sub-tier in order.)
Physically it's way sturdier than Swampert and by extension Flygon. However it absolutely requires Magneton plus Pursuit Tar supporting it. Hits really hard with STAB EQ though which is nice. You can try HP Rock for nice damage on Flyers too, but you will have to sacrifice one of Toxic or Protect.
Actually pretty good. Its niche is access to Encore plus very fast Sleep Powder. Pretty disgusting with Spikes down and against a CurseLax lol.
Is it a Moltres without WoW? Or is it a Moltres with Focus Punch? I dunno really. It seems okay but in reality I don't think it's too good.
It's okay I guess. Pretty strong with Explosion. Cool shiny sprite too.
I don't really see the appeal.
Fast as hell, decently strong, access to Crunch for Gengar (lol). It can do Endeavor too I guess. It's not terrible.
Pretty strong, particularly when its Cross Chop crits. But it's slow as dirt and has worse bulk than Hariyama, I think lol.
Identical to Donphan except you trade being better at everything for being better against Electric Mons and access to Explosion, which you will never actually click.
Armaldo is kind of like a specially based Hariyama, I guess. What I mean by that is it's a good special wall with access to Knock Off. Of course it has two awful weaknesses in Water and Rock, but with HP Bug / Rest / Rock STAB / Knock Off, you could probably do a decent job walling Electrics, Gengar, and Celebi.
Not as big a meme as you think it is. It completely and utterly destroys the Spinners, which is a great niche right now. However, you're gonna end up trapped by Dugtrio and you also exert negative offensive pressure lol.
It's actually really strong and can kinda sweep some teams with Agility + Swords Dance.
C- Tier
Practically meme tier. I'm not really sure why you'd want to use these apart from novelty value. They are okay individually but there's almost always something that is universally better.
(Not ranked in order. I view all of these Mons as equally shitty / obscure.)
Would be pretty scary if it was faster but instead it's the worst defensive Mon in the tier and just not that good.
There was a time when people used CB Crobat because of its base 130 Speed. But then we learned that it actually sucks.
Dodrio actually has the smallest niche if you squint. It's super fast and its CB Drill Peck annihilates Gengar. Plus it can Baton Pass out of its switch ins. This should probably be a C tier Mon I guess.
It's not good but you can annoy the shit out of some people with it if you want I guess.
Miltank's description applies here too.
Idk it's fast and can do STAB Facade shenanigans.
Sadly it's pretty bad. Maybe it can do better than C-. Intimidate is nice.
Nah.
Strong as fuck but slow as fuck.
I remember it being a lot better than it is now.
Ninjask Tier
This tier includes Ninjask.
(Not ranked in order. This Ninjask is in fact a Ninjask.)
Friends don't let friends use Ninjask.
I kinda ran out of steam at the end if you couldn't tell, but I think I captured the bulk of what I wanted to say here! Thanks for reading.
