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Pokémon Aegislash

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by ArkWelder, Oct 13, 2013.

  1. kd24

    kd24 lemme just whip my dick out and slam it on the table
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    So I've cleaned up this entire thread, please read this post below before furthering discussion. I want to say that if your post is still in this thread, it means it was acceptable or even a good post that provided some reasoning, or at the very least provided the concept of something competitive relating to the Pokemon. Try and read this thread as it is now to get an idea of the direction this thread should go. This thread will be more strictly moderated from this point.

    General Notes on Aegislash

    - Please use our resources before asking questions about how his effects work. Stance change is based on the Base stats, not the evs and nature. King's Shield and Protect doesn't stack. It comes back in with Shield Form. King's Shield is what turns it back. Etc.

    - When discussing a potential teammate, explain why it'd be a good teammate. This means going beyond "it can switch into Dark-type attacks" or "it can Baton Pass Speed and Attack". Those traits could apply to any number of Pokemon, what makes Aegislash special? Talk about the potential checks and counters they're actually helping with, the overload the two of them could put on a team (Aegi weakens this potential counter and then this mon comes in), etc.

    - If someone posts something that is incorrect, you don't need to answer it if someone else already has. If you're the first person to answer it, that's fine, but your post will be deleted (and theirs) will be deleted when a mod sees it because it doesn't actually add anything to the discussion. If you feel your post is important to clear up any misconceptions, (and it very well could be so important on it's own that it stays, but if not:) try to add actual content to it.

    - Simple Questions/Simple Answers. Guys, a thread discussing a Pokemon doesn't mean you can ask every small question barely relating to that Pokemon, if there question doesn't directly relate to competitive play, ask in the simple questions/simple answers.

    - If you're posing the question of "which one is better", think to yourself what the advantages and disadvantages are. Smogon is not meant to spoonfeed information to you in our discussion threads, so instead of asking "is Adamant or Brave better?" and leaving it at that, write down why you're considering both of them with an advantages/disadvantages list of each and let discussion spin off that. This applies heavily to moveset choices, one of the biggest "one liner questions" this thread contained.

    - If you thought you had a legitimate discussion point / question that no one responded to, look back to the above bullet. Try to provide your own reasoning and answer for the question so that people can discuss off of your points and reasoning.

    - If you're going to make claims, run actual calcs to back it up.

    - No one cares about your anecdotal in-game evidence or that your team lets you get +6 everytime if you're not going to explain how and why. What is it about this Pokemon that lends itself to being able to boost up to +6 easily because of its teammates? Is it due to its counters being wary of actually switching in for some reason? Are you luring them with a good partner?

    List of counters proposed in this thread:

    - Conkeldurr
    - Gyarados
    - Doublade
    - Bisharp
    - Krookadile
    - Hippowdon
    - Garchomp
    - Gliscor
    - Hydreigon
    - Heatran (when released)
    - Landorus (when released)
    - Zapdos
    - Bulky Water-types
    - Skarmory
    - Forrestress
    - Excadrill
    - Donphan
    - Mawile
    - Blastoise
    - Furfrou
    - Talonflame
    - Vaporeon

    Explain why these Pokemon are worth using in OU now - some of them will be self-explanatory and probably don't need an explanation but for those who suggest Doublade and Krookadile and Donphan and others, what advantage do they provide in OU that makes running them worth it, as we already have several other viable counters already. What would they add to the table? And most importantly, are they even counters at all?

    Question to be answered:
    Which nature is actually the better choice? Adamant or Brave? WHY?

    Who are the best teammates for Aegislash and why?

    What does the Special Set beat that the SD set cannot? (Ultimario and others tries to explain this throughout but I think this could be answered in much more detail, self-explanatory but things like not as susceptible to burn (which would go through king's shield) is definitely a step in proving this) Why would Choice Band be a better choice? (dragontamer did a good job of giving explanation to this, so you might want to read his posts)

    What are it's weaknesses? How might OU change around Aegislash and will the changes in OU/Aegislash's weaknesses show that it's not as good as we first thought?

    Discuss the theory of King's Shield and why it may or may not be optimal (there is discussion on page 6 about this)

    What can we do to mitigate the weaknesses of Aegislash and especially of his sets (how do we make up for dropping King's Shield, or running a CB set, etc)

    If there is anything to take away from this thread, (which clearly needed a clean-up), then take this: We are not here to spoonfeed you information. Post your results, reasoning, explanations, and logic. Too many people are asking questions without providing any of their own insight, trying to collect summaries of what others have discussed. Read the thread (it's now significantly shorter) if you don't want to add to the discussion, but if you do, then say something that is worth it in some capacity. Even just a single counter and explaining why that counter is not only worth it but why it would be good in the general meta as well.

    MagikaripIsOP, I don't mean to embarrass you or call you out, but understand your posts in this thread were unacceptable for the standards we have here. Your attitude of asking people to read the thread for you and summarize it, while saying "don't make me read through the thread" isn't how we add to a conversation. We are providing the resources right here with the thread, your posts did nothing but simply added more posts to scroll through.
  2. Xiammes

    Xiammes

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    I have been using Aegislash for Smogon Ubers beta and its doing a lot of work at the moment.

    Aegislash @ Air Balloon
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - King's Shield
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Gyro Ball
    - Sacred Sword

    King's Shield absolutely puts a stop to Extreme killer Arcues, the only common move Arcues runs that can hit him is shadow claw and I can just king shield that and cripple Arcues. Sacred Sword when they try to SD up or attack me(after the attack drop).

    Gryo Ball absolutely wrecks Xerneas, Aegislash walls Xerneas hard and 1 gyroball after a Geomacy will kill him. Shadow Sneak wrecks Mewtwo and works as a excellent revenge killing move.

    His speed catagory gives him a big advantage, since most threats will outspeed him, Aegislash can very well use both his immense bulk and immense attack power in the same turn, while still outspeeding pokemon like Ferrothorn and hitting him with a sacred sword.

    I put 4 evs in special defense so Genesect won't get the SPA boost and hit it with a flamethrower.
    Yeah Galo Sengan and Arikado like this.
  3. superstar

    superstar

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    Extremekiller Arceus with Earthquake (i.e. the most common third move) absolutely slaughters this set once the balloon is popped, for the record. Also it's way too prediction reliant even if the Arceus doesn't have Earthquake because they can just predict the King's Shield and SD again.

    Apart from that its still a very solid set, though, since Aegislash does have great typing as well as the ability to counter Psyshock/Focus Blast/Moon Blast Xerneas like you said. (Is 2HKO'd by +2 Thunder(bolt) though)
  4. Xiammes

    Xiammes

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    Getting 2hko'd isn't a problem if you kept Aegislash healthy, just switch immediately to Aegislash and hit him with a Gryoball.

    Ultimately the damage is more useful, after stealth rocks, Sacred sword is a solid 2hko, Kings Shield then sacred sword, after a SD, Shadow Claw is only a 2hko on a defense form. Its not entirely perfect counter, but it does its job well enough and puts pressure on Arcues. The very worst case scenario Arcues is left with less then 50% hp and you have a free switch.
  5. Dragontamer

    Dragontamer

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    This question sticks out as interesting for me. So I'll try to start a discussion here.

    Immunities: Normal, Fighting
    Resistances: Grass Ice Flying Psychic 4xBug Rock Dragon Steel Fairy
    Weaknesses: Fire Ghost Dark Ground
    Neutral: Water Electric

    Like any other Steel Pokemon, Aegislash is weak to Fire and Ground as its most prominent weaknesses. The other two weaknesses are Dark and Ghost. From a type perspective, Hydregeon sounds like the perfect mate. Resisting ALL of Aegislash's weaknesses, while Aegislash resists all of Hydregon's weaknesses.

    Neutral Attack Pairs (these high-powered attacks are virtually resisted by nobody. So being "neutral" to them is a good sign):
    Hydregeon: EdgeQuake
    Aegislash: BoltBeam, Water/Ice, Rock/Fighting (actually resisted!)

    However, there are many prominent Attack Pairs not handled: Dark/Fighting (Lucario, Gen5 Superpower Absol), Ghost / Fighting (Gengar), and the new Fairy / Ghost (Gardevoir, Togekiss) and Fairy / Dark (Mawile). Dragon/Steel "cores" have always been considered good, but after many generations, the metagame seems to have learned to deal with them. So of course, Hydregeon / Aegislash is your obvious "great" pairing from a type analysis. But I'd bet that as the metagame matures, people will learn to deal with the canonical Dragon+Steel core.

    Nonetheless, pairing the two of the most powerful mixed attackers together will certainly scare away defensive teams of any kind. Fast and powerful offense deals with this combo (Mega Lucario / Mega Gengar), but I have trouble seeing any wall take on both of these guys at the same time. Since Hydregeon is faster and Aegislash is stronger (and benefits from switching in/out), I'm thinking Scarf Hydregeon / Life Orb Mix Aegislash would be ideal.

    -----------------

    Perfect coverage of weaknesses is unlikely to be as good as the Hydregeon pairing... but Salamence, Gyarados (if only to deal with Hippowdon / Gliscor), and Tyranitar (despite the shared EQ weakness... both Aegislash and TTar seem to pair up pretty good on other aspects) seem like suitable pairings. There is a certain elegance to pairing "high physical attack" with "high physical attack" in an offensive core. Unlike Special Walls (omfg Chansey / Blissey), physical walls are worn down over time, and repeated powerful physical blows from multiple pokemon can decimate a team. So despite the lack of "perfect resistance" with these pairs, they seem pretty good.

    Heracross brings the Earthquake resist with neutrality to Stone Edge. Heracross also offers resistance to Dark/Fighting, and neutrality to Ghost/Fighting. Aegislash protects Heracross from those pesky flying and fairy attacks. Although both share a Fire Weakness, the rest of the pairing seems pretty good.
    Yeah Galo Sengan and DTC like this.
  6. Kalut123

    Kalut123

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    I like the idea of Gyara being a partner for the SD/KS set. Some notable benefits should the opponent ferret out Aegislash are:

    -Gyarados can switch into Choiced EQs and Gliscor (to be fair this only applies to the prediction game; your opponent should be wary about spamming EQ's in the first place. EdgeQuake is thing to watch out for.)
    -Upon the switch he Intimidates the foe, which is always a bonus; Moxie doesn't matter as the ability is going to be replaced by the Mega Evo
    -Upon MegaEvolving he gets even more bulk, substantial to the point that that you pretty much get in a free DD
    -Mold Breaker EQ wrecks Rotom-W switch-ins, Gengars; Waterfall; Mold Breaker also beats Sturdy :O

    +1 252+ Atk (custom) Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 40+ Def Gliscor: 356-422 (101.13 - 119.88%) -- guaranteed OHKO (SubToxic Gliscor)

    +1 252+ Atk (custom) Waterfall vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 306-360 (86.93 - 102.27%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (MaxDef, pretty much defeats the purpose of him being a wall)

    +1 252+ Atk (custom) Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 314-372 (74.76 - 88.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  7. MapleSandwich

    MapleSandwich

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    Thank goodness for kd24 cleaning up the thread. I couldn't even read it anymore, 20 pages?

    Anyways, one hilarious counter I've found to Aegislash is Diggersby. The Huge Power ability combined with its Normal typing allows it to ignore Aegislash's big scary Ghost type STABs, and its evenly-distributed bulk allows it to tank non-boosted Sacred Sword and Flash Cannon, while also annihilating even Shield Stance Aegislash with Earthquake.

    Here is max attack Adamant Diggersby vs max HP/4 Def Aegislash in Shield Stance:
    252+ Atk Huge Power (custom) Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def (custom) : 306-362 (94.44 - 111.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Let's say Diggersby is running enough speed to outspeed base 60s even with an Adamant nature itself, which is reasonable to do. The resulting spread would be: 60 HP/252 Atk/196 Spd.
    Here is Automise Aegislash with Life orb vs Diggersby:

    0- Atk Life Orb (custom) Sacred Sword vs. 60 HP / 0 Def (custom): 268-317 (82.2 - 97.23%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Flash Cannon vs. 60 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 235-278 (72.08 - 85.27%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    so Diggersby can hold up decent well vs Automose Aegislash even running minimal bulk, although it is risky, but if you want to counter Aegislash specifically you can run more HP or Defense, as I've ben doing personally.
  8. CakeGuy

    CakeGuy

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    Aegislash and MegaMawile almost share the same counters and thus works well with the same partner. Both rely on priorities and innate bulkiness to survive and revenge kill. Thus they share the same optimal partner IMO:

    Scarf Garchomp would be a good pick to cover up Aegislash. Covering up the ground and fire weakness and Aegislash/Mawile in return can cover up Garchomp's weakness

    Goodra A.Vest is also a good partner to cover King's Shield's inability to -2 special attacks
  9. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    It's amazing how many 50/50 situations this thing creates. For example, any time I used Blaziken, I actually had to be wary of Aegislash because it could use King's Shield and setup an SD in its face, or it can use SD itself as you predict the Kings Shield and use SD yourself. BLAZIKEN! A Pokemon that should normally have no problem smashing through a Steel-types has a ton of issues handling Aegislash simply because of King's Shield. The opponent can then proceed to use the -2 Blaziken as setup fodder for another sweeper, or potentially pull of a sweep with Aegislash if Blaziken's weakened enough to be OHKOed by Shadow Sneak. It's just crazy how many situations I've been in that could either win me the game, or get my entire team swept by this thing. To make it worse, a lot of Pokemon that would normally be good checks to it are either weak to Shadow Sneak, like Gengar, or crippled by King's Shield, like Tyranitar and Blaziken. With huge checks like Landorus-T, Landorus and Heatran being currently unavailable, Aegislash is that much more threatening. As of now, Gliscor is probably one of the most reliable defensive checks/counters to Aegislash because it's 4HKOed at best by a +2 Shadow Sneak, and it can do massive damage with EQ the following turn. Garchomp and Mamoswine are both very good in the current metagame and can easily check Aegislash at +2. Another great check that many seem to be ignoring is Bulky Volcarona, as it can avoid the 2HKO from a +2 Shadow Sneak, setup a Quiver Dance, and then proceed to spam Roost until Flame Body triggers and burns Aegislash or just take it out. Volcarona is actually very good right now anyways, because it's currently missing a lot of its checks, while the buff to Defog and the lack of rain help it out too. This makes it a perfectly viable option for teams that need a nice check to Aegislash.

    All in all, the sheer amount of pressure that Aegislash puts on almost any sort of team is unbelievable, and I definitely see it easily being one of the best Pokemon this generation. I find myself using it on almost all of my teams, it's just that good.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
    Punchshroom likes this.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Out of those Pokemon, only SpD Hippowdon, Garchomp, Bisharp, Heatran, Hydreigon, and Landorus-T are good checks. Everything else is either maimed by Shadow Ball on the switch + Shadow Sneak or relies on physical contact moves that King's Shield can neuter.

    Btw, more people should start running max HP / max SpA Quiet Aegislash with King's Shield / Shadow Ball / Shadow Sneak / Iron Head. Shadow Ball is easily Aegislash's best attacking move, having few viable switch-ins and 2HKOing common switch-ins to Aegislash such as Hippowdon and Skarmory (which shouldn't be common switch-ins to it really). Why bother with Swords Dance and a weak ass Shadow Sneak when you can just nuke everything from the get go with Shadow Ball? Not to mention that the most common special walls/tanks despise Iron Head (Tyranitar, Sylveon, Florges, Goodra, Togekiss).

    As for good checks to Aegislash, SpD Hippowdon is probably the best one as it avoids the 2HKO from any of Aegislash's moves and threatens back with Earthquake. Specially bulky Pokemon that can hit Aegislash back hard with special moves and don't mind Iron Head and Sacred Sword are great checks as well (SpD Volcarona ftw).

    In general, if your main Aegislash switch-in can't take a couple of Shadow Balls you are fucked.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  11. arylide

    arylide

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    From what I've played with it, Noivern and M-Chomp are great teamates, w/ M-Chomp switching into another aegislash's attacks and sucking them up easily and Noivern can help it dodge earthquakes while being a Grade-a special attacker and scouting out opponents sets whenever it gets a free switch in, running two dragons isn't the best thing ever, but Poison Jab on Chomp and Iron Head on aegislash more than makes up for it. M-Chomp also gets stab Earthquake I might add allowing it to easily dispose of other aegislash(-es?) .
  12. Morty

    Morty

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    I tested this on my in game Ageislash just to verify, but it seems many people don't know exactly how stance change works. If the user selects an attacking move, Ageislash changes form at the very start of a turn, whether it is faster or not. This means that faster pokemon should hit the poor defenses of attack form if they are faster and slash doesn't use shadow sneak. This is why shadow sneak is so important, Ageislash is in big trouble if it doesn't go first. So far, PS doesn't implement the ability correctly.

    edit:

    I am not trying to point out a bug, I just think it is relevant to the topic that right now, people who only know about stance change form PS are seeing a better version of the ability than the one in game, and what I hope will be implemented soon. Not changing form at the start of the turn is a huge buff to ageislash and takes out the need for some prediction.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  13. Ballofire

    Ballofire Banned deucer.

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    ?

    It doesn't switch to the blade form first at all. Running min speed in this case is useful. Because it lets you take a hit in defensive form then hit back with Ironhead/ss then on the next then attack first with shadow sneak.

    Aegislash vs Starmie
    Turn 1
    Aeigislash uses iron head
    Starmie uses surf

    Starmie attacks first and Aegislash remains in defensive to take the hit but follows up with iron head in blade form

    Turn 2
    Aegislash uses shadow sneak
  14. The King of Harts

    The King of Harts

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    Despite the obvious weakness, I've found that defensive Ghost are a great counter because it forces him to use only Shadow Sneak. Despite the Swords Dance and STAB, Shadow Sneak is still a paltry 40 BP and Sacred Sword is definitely it's better attack of the two. On two teams I have, I've used physically defensive Trevenant and Sableye to great affect. Trevenant at 252/252 Impish can't be OHKO by even a +2 Shadow Sneak (72.72 - 86.63%). But what makes both Trevenant and Sableye work is that Will-o-Wisp hits through King's Shield. They send out Aegislash, I switch in Trevenant or Sableye, they dance, and then I tank the Shadow Sneak and hit back with a burn. A burned Aegislash is essentially a dead Aegislash.

    I've found that physically offensive Aegislash isn't a huge threat, especially since I've seen it roughly a million times and have learned how to maneuver my team around it. What is a threat, though, is the bait of thinking it's physical only to have it be special because, for me at least, that's a dead Trevenant. However, once you know it's special, it's still not that terrifying since it can't boost its offenses and lacks Shadow Sneak. Obviously, though, you still need to be prepared for it since everyone and there mother are using it.
  15. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    The whole post is relevant to what I'm about to say, but I'm just highlighting this calc to really help support something I said earlier: SR + 1 layer of Spikes is deadly support for Aegi. Even niche counters like this fall to Aegi after with just that many hazards, it's hard to keep those up in this meta with Defog and Excadrill running about but it's not impossible.

    I'll reference kd's list when further providing calcs.

    Show Hide
    - Conkeldurr
    - Gyarados
    - Doublade
    - Bisharp
    - Krookadile
    - Hippowdon
    - Garchomp
    - Gliscor
    - Hydreigon
    - Heatran (when released)
    - Landorus (when released)
    - Zapdos
    - Bulky Water-types
    - Skarmory
    - Forretress
    - Excadrill
    - Donphan
    - Mawile
    - Blastoise
    - Furfrou
    - Talonflame
    - Vaporeon


    Lets cut up this list a bit.

    What common sets Autotomize beats (all these assume Autotomize on switch):
    - Doublade
    - Krookadile
    - Garchomp
    - Gliscor
    - Landorus
    - Excadrill
    - Talonflame

    Can beat some common sets but not others:
    - Skarmory
    - Forretress

    calcs (open)
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 104.04 - 122.61%
    4- Atk Life Orb (custom) Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 87.91 - 103.62%
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 137.5 - 162.5%
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hidden Power Ice vs. 200 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 124.01 - 146.55%
    4- Atk Life Orb (custom) Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 89.77 - 106.35%
    4- Atk Life Orb (custom) Sacred Sword vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 80.24 - 95.06%
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 86.66 - 102.41%
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 75.97 - 90.09%
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Forretress: 80.5 - 94.63%
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Doublade: 85.71 - 101.86%

    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 224 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 52.59 - 62.07%
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 74 - 87.46%
    252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 52.82 - 62.14%


    All those calcs are very convincing, and completely convincing factoring in SR + Spikes. Out of those, SpD Forry is the only one that can counter it using EQ, SpD Skarm can't even do anything but phaze it out, and its left at like 40% in the process in a best case scenario.

    The Mixed Pivot is a bit harder to case, seeing as with proper prediction its counters list shrinks significantly... but with poor prediction, just about the whole list can take it on. I'll put the lists here so people don't have to fish back through them.

    Old List (open)
    Using Deo-N in place of Aegislash:
    Flat out kills:

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Hippowdon (+SpDef) : 44.05% - 51.9%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Ferrothorn (+Def): 48.01 - 56.81%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 95.29 - 113.36%
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory (+SpDef) : 55.99% - 66.47%
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Latias: 90.66% - 107.97%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs 4 HP/0 Def Terrakion: 95.37% - 113.27%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 94.2% - 111.33% (Iron Head is obviously Guaranteed)
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Iron Head vs 252 HP/252 Def Sylveon (+Def) : 89.85% - 106.85%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Iron Head vs 252 HP/252 Def Florges (+Def) : 96.11% - 113.33%


    Attack + Shadow Sneak kills:
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Garchomp: 66.48% - 78.49%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 4 HP/0 Def Garchomp: 27.65% - 32.96%

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 200 HP/0 SpDef Landorus-T: 68.02% - 80.22%
    252 -1 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 200 HP/244 Def Landorus-T: 14.91% - 17.89%

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 248 HP/8 SpDef Gyarados: 52.67% - 61.83%
    252 -1 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 248 HP/252 Def Gyarados (+Def) : 13.99% - 16.28%

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Keldeo: 70.06% - 83.02%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 4 HP/0 Def Keldeo: 32.41% - 38.58%

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Terrakion: 70.06% - 83.02%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 4 HP/0 Def Terrakion: 32.41% - 38.58%

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Salamence: 75.6% - 89.16%
    252 -1 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 4 HP/0 Def Salamence: 22.59% - 27.41%

    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Sacred Sword vs 248 HP/8 Def Heatran: 69.61% - 82.34%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 248 HP/8 Def Heatran: 23.38% - 27.79%

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 244 HP/0 SpDef Gliscor: 75.28% - 88.64%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 244 HP/40 Def Gliscor (+Def) : 19.89% - 23.58%

    252 SpAtk Life Orb Deoxys-N (+SpAtk) Shadow Ball vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Azumarill: 62.13% - 73.27%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-N Shadow Sneak vs 252 HP/4 Def Azumarill: 28.22% - 33.66%


    And I'll add a few calcs from THIS list

    Show Hide
    252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 94.78 - 112.57%
    252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Sacred Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 208.45 - 246.69%
    252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 81.51 - 96.35%
    252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 16.14 - 19.27%
    252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 47.08 - 55.5%
    252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 236+ SpD Zapdos: 42.81 - 50.13%
    252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 28.45 - 33.94%
    252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 59.26 - 70.23%
    252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Zapdos: 20.36 - 24.54%
    252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Forretress: 57.62 - 68.36%
    252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr: 64.56 - 76.11%
    252+ SpA Life Orb (custom) Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 51.1 - 60.22%
    252 Atk Life Orb (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 20.71 - 24.86%
    252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Blastoise: 149-177 (41.16 - 48.89%)
    252+ SpA Life Orb Deoxys Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 71.05 - 83.88%
    252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Furfrou: 140-166 (39.54 - 46.89%)


    Basically, mixed pivot also makes mince meat out of most conventional checks and counters if you're good at guessing (or if they literally have no options but to switch in said checks), and again, with SR + Spikes the list of what can actually take these hits is nonexistant. Bulky Waters really are the only things that can even manage to come in on Aegi without fear and get rid of it, but they struggle against SD sets that use Shadow Claw thanks to the fact that outspeed it and are forced to rely on scald burns or phazing to beat it thanks to Shield Stance's defenses.

    SR + Spikes support on this thing is scary man.

    I'm sure there's still SOME SD set calcs left after the cleanup to compare against the counter list, but we should figure at this point that the list of counters and checks tips once again against this set, with some counters and checks getting completely stomped by +2 Shadow Claw like Zapdos.

    Bulky Waters are a pretty good start to beating Aegislash reliably, they're still not perfect though. I've been running some calcs to try and find a bulky water that puts a hard stop to him, but +2 Shadow Claw (MORE PEOPLE NEED TO RUN SHADOW CLAW ON SD, IT'S GOOD) is an extremely deadly force.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
    Kalut123 likes this.
  16. Quaresma8977

    Quaresma8977

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    Charizard should be on that list of counters. Fire STAB with resistance to both Sacred Sword and Iron Head.
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    A counter needs to be able to switch into any move of Aegislash, and Charizard can be 2HKOed by Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak so it's not even a good check.
  18. Quaresma8977

    Quaresma8977

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    Don't be silly. By your definition then we should also take off Gyarados (Mega), Doublade, Bisharp, Krookadile, Hydreigon, Heatran, Excadrill etc because they are also weak to some of Aegislash's more common attacks.
  19. Dragontamer

    Dragontamer

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    Alex is right here. A "counter" is defined quite precisely in Smogon. A "counter" must switch into any attack and then win in the fight. Charizard might be a decent "check", but I doubt it, for reasons that Alexwolf has already mentioned.

    A "check" can switch into a commonly predicted attack, or come in for the revenge kill, and then win 1v1 against that pokemon. But the word "counter" is only used in very particular situations.
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  20. Myaora

    Myaora

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    Aegislash @ Life Orb
    Ability: Stance Change
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Sp.A / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - King's Shield
    - Sacred Sword
    - Shadow Ball
    - Swords Dance

    Alright, I've mostly been using in my preferred doubles format, which is an emerging if not universally beloved format I know. As I have been using Aegislash in a trick room setting, King's Shield serves as a tool to keep Aegislash alive until I get trick room up.
    Swords Dance serves the purpose of both tricking the opponent into expecting an Atk Aegislash pur sang, before hitting them over the head with Shadow Ball and well... getting Aegislash ready to get a massive Sacred Sword going.
  21. Arkrusicks

    Arkrusicks

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    Looking at Pyroar

    254+ Atk (custom) Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def (custom): 105-123 (30.79 - 36.07%) -- 56.4% chance to 3HKO

    With 64 defensive EVs

    With Fire/Normal gives it a ghost immunity, Pyroar has a BST of ~500 with an 86/68/72/109/66/106 spread. Seems like a strong play vs sets that do not carry sacred sword, which is most of them sadly.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  22. Julian

    Julian
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    Just want to bring up the topic of which defence to invest in. Its actually pretty important considering its only 4 evs (assuming 252 hp, 252 att). so which stat would Aegislash prefer from common download users, the attack boost or sp attack boost? seeing as most users of download use special attacks it should use the last 4 evs in special defence over defence simply so things like porygon2 gets the attack boost. Opinions?
  23. Arkrusicks

    Arkrusicks

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    Genesect is obviously a physical attacker and is ridiculously prominent in the ladder atm so you want them in defence if you take that attitude. um you want to put 8-12 EVs in speed so your +2 shadow sneak wins out in the mirror though, or so you can 2hko the aegislash ditto. Don't put them in defence lel
  24. UltiMario

    UltiMario

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    Genesect never carries any more than U-Turn on the physical side, so it's obviously a special attacker and it's pretty advantageous to have it boost attack rather than SpA against Aegislash.
  25. Arkrusicks

    Arkrusicks

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    Sorry yes that's right, but the question is are you going to use the slash in the Genosect match-up enough to justify losing the mirror to speed ties? Or do you want to go above and beyond and lose a few points of HP to beat download like that

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