Pokémon Aegislash

[UltiMario]

Speaking of Ultimario's set, I'm confused at your "flat out kills" calculations, in those early ones, you're not KOing Hippowdon or Ferrothorn, yet they are OHKOing you in return. If you're talking about forcing switches and nuking the living hell out of everything, why not just run a choice band set? It achieves the same point with more natural hitting power. Hell, with that set anyway, without the bulk in HP, Salamance, heatran, Gliscor and Garchomp all OHKO you, while Azuramill Waterfall+Aqua jets to kill you.

Hipponwdon being slower means he kill you in one EQ, same with Donphan. Chansey and Blissey are hardly worth worrying about, they won't dare come in on you (or they go bye bye).

Just noticed this.

You don't switch into like Hippowdon or something. Seriously.

These are for calcs when they're trying to counter you. If they switch in on you, Ferro and Hippo get outsped and 2HKO'd. You outpace Azu so your Shadow Sneak is faster than its Aqua Jet. Everything else mentioned is the same. They don't even get the opportunity to attack you, which is the point.

Why you would even assume 1v1 for 90% of those calcs is ridiculous. Most of them ARE things that will massacre Aegi 1v1, that's why I chose many of them. The idea is that they can't counter this set unlike they counter SD or something.

Also Choice band gets absolutely destroyed by anything physically defensive if using it for raw killing power like this set, AND CB Shadow Claw and LO Shadow Ball have roughly the same power. Not to mention it can't do any of these Shadow Sneak kills, AND it should be filling a different role altogether by abusing moves like Pursuit. If you didn't notice, most of those Calcs are from Shadow Ball (which Shadow Claw can't mimic due to intimidates or higher physical defense stats). Aegi's Shadow Ball simply is unrivaled on his movesets for Turn 1 damage.

 

[Dragontamer]

Speaking of Ultimario's set, I'm confused at your "flat out kills" calculations, in those early ones, you're not KOing Hippowdon or Ferrothorn, yet they are OHKOing you in return. If you're talking about forcing switches and nuking the living hell out of everything, why not just run a choice band set? It achieves the same point with more natural hitting power. Hell, with that set anyway, without the bulk in HP, Salamance, heatran, Gliscor and Garchomp all OHKO you, while Azuramill Waterfall+Aqua jets to kill you.

You're doing it wrong. Aegislash doesn't switch into Salamence. Instead... Salamence switches (or tries to at least) into Aegislash. If Salamence switches in, you hit him as hard as you can and then switch out. A mispredicted switch in will force you out, and nothing changes that fact. Switching out for the EQ resist and/or Fire Blast resist is going to be your best option.

Off a good switch-in, you might even kill the Salamence.

Fortunately, Salamence can't risk anything else and is basically forced to EQ or Fire Blast. So switch in the resist (like a Salamence of your own or Gyarados) get a nearly free switch in and can attempt to build momentum back up. The fact that these pokemon have Intimidate of their own gives a nice benefit.

Any other route leads to a dead Aegislash against a good player.

 

[Pac-man9]

You're doing it wrong. Aegislash doesn't switch into Salamence. Instead... Salamence switches (or tries to at least) into Aegislash. If Salamence switches in, you hit him as hard as you can and then switch out. A mispredicted switch in will force you out, and nothing changes that fact. Switching out for the EQ resist and/or Fire Blast resist is going to be your best option.

Off a good switch-in, you might even kill the Salamence.

Fortunately, Salamence can't risk anything else and is basically forced to EQ or Fire Blast. So switch in the resist (like a Salamence of your own or Gyarados) get a nearly free switch in and can attempt to build momentum back up. The fact that these pokemon have Intimidate of their own gives a nice benefit.

Any other route leads to a dead Aegislash against a good player.

Funny how you think aegislash can only run one set. Guess its your way or the highway.So, what does anybody think about weakness policy on Aegislash?

King's Shield(bare with me king's shield haters)+3 attacks
Weakness policy
Sassy
252 hp
128 def/sp.def
Shadow ball
Iron head
Sacred sword
King's shield

Looks peculiar on paper, i know. But can work in the long run. Wait for physical attacker to come in and use earth quake, and take the hit purposely to gain boost. Then annihilate the earthquake user with shadow ball, and proceed to sweep until your health gets low. laugh at physical attackers without earthquake as they hit your shield while expecting a shadow sneak. Special attackers will be harder to handle, but you can survive a hit and either OHKO or 2HKO.
So what do you think? I know it doesn't survive long, but that's why there is a switch button. The surprise factor is the main goal of this set but eventually funnels out into an unpredictability set. They don't know what to expect, since the set is so different than what is expected of aegislash, opponents may feel pressured, or shrug the weakness policy boost off as a noob attempt. They won't be laughing when their hippowdon is OHKO'd. Someone else do calculations, I'm sleepy.

 

[shadeoficarus]

Underspeeding is desirable when you're starting in Shield Form. That's possible on King's Shield sets, but also possible before your first attack, which is key if you're running a Choice set and doing a lot of switching.

I think Underspeeding could be critical for Agislash. He has a pretty chunky amount of bulk in Shield Form, and that is where you want to take the hits. Because Kings Shield is a priority move, it lets you force him into defensive mode.

If you underspeed them it allows you to soak hits in Shield Forme, then retaliate with an attack move.

Its part of the reason that if I ever ran a boost, it would be SD over Automatize

Also opens up a lot of mind games eg: attacking instead of King's Shield to catch someone trying to setup on you.

 

[Dragontamer]

Funny how you think aegislash can only run one set. Guess its your way or the highway.

Funny how you have no idea what the hell I'm saying. I'm calling King's Shield a terrible attack with significant opportunity costs. I've given props to at least three different Aegislash sets so far: Choice, Mix, and Automatize. (although with the new Mix-set calculations... maybe Choice is obsolete already). You're welcome to ignore my advice and run King's Shield btw. But this is Smogon, and as far as I'm aware... the competitive spirit of Smogon welcomes and encourages the criticism of bad sets. I'm offering criticism of what I believe to be a terrible, terrible mistake on Aegislash.

We can drop the issue if you wish though, if nothing I say will convince you otherwise.

King's Shield(bare with me king's shield haters)+3 attacks
Weakness policy
Sassy
252 hp
128 def/sp.def
Shadow ball
Iron head
Sacred sword
King's shield

Looks peculiar on paper, i know. But can work in the long run. Wait for physical attacker to come in and use earth quake, and take the hit purposely to gain boost. Then annihilate the earthquake user with shadow ball, and proceed to sweep until your health gets low. laugh at physical attackers without earthquake as they hit your shield while expecting a shadow sneak. Special attackers will be harder to handle, but you can survive a hit and either OHKO or 2HKO.
So what do you think? I know it doesn't survive long, but that's why there is a switch button. The surprise factor is the main goal of this set but eventually funnels out into an unpredictability set. They don't know what to expect, since the set is so different than what is expected of aegislash, opponents may feel pressured, or shrug it off as a no
ob attempt. They won't be laughing when their hippowdon is OHKO'd. Someone else do calculations, I'm sleepy.

Your strategy is to take a super-effective Earthquake with 0 Speed EVs and then "sweep" the opponent with 60 base speed with negative nature at no more than 1/2 health without any assistance of a priority attack?

You're kidding, right? I'm not even sure how to explain how much this strategy fails to "sweep". Even IF you kill Hippowdon (which btw: you don't. Without Life Orb or Sp. Atk EVs, Hippo switches in, takes the Shadow Ball, Earthquakes. Then you King's Shield giving Hippowdon free HP from his leftovers. Then Hippo takes the +2 Shadow Ball, STILL survives, and smacks you with the 2nd Earthquake for the win).

Worst case? Hippowdon switches in, wonders why Aegislash is sooooo weak and didn't do a Swords Dance, gets a Stealth Rocks off, Slacks off the damage, and THEN proceeds to own you hard.

The Hippo outspeeds you, and walls you. He might as well take advantage of Stealth Rocks. After switching into soooo little damage, that's probably what I'd do.

 

[BROloom]

Just noticed this.

You don't switch into like Hippowdon or something. Seriously.

These are for calcs when they're trying to counter you. If they switch in on you, Ferro and Hippo get outsped and 2HKO'd. You outpace Azu so your Shadow Sneak is faster than its Aqua Jet. Everything else mentioned is the same. They don't even get the opportunity to attack you, which is the point.

Why you would even assume 1v1 for 90% of those calcs is ridiculous. Most of them ARE things that will massacre Aegi 1v1, that's why I chose many of them. The idea is that they can't counter this set unlike they counter SD or something.

Also Choice band gets absolutely destroyed by anything physically defensive if using it for raw killing power like this set, AND CB Shadow Claw and LO Shadow Ball have roughly the same power. Not to mention it can't do any of these Shadow Sneak kills, AND it should be filling a different role altogether by abusing moves like Pursuit. If you didn't notice, most of those Calcs are from Shadow Ball (which Shadow Claw can't mimic due to intimidates or higher physical defense stats). Aegi's Shadow Ball simply is unrivaled on his movesets for Turn 1 damage.

Right, first off, if you're outspeeding Azu, you're dying to his waterfall in one shot, lets get that out of the way.

Secondly for some reason, you listed a 252HP, 252 special defence Hippowdon in your calcs with a +spdef nature, you'll be doing 44.05% - 51.9%, while a CB set would be doing 43.09 - 50.95%. Against the defensive set, which you probably should have listed, you would be doing enough to 2HKO while the Physical set won't. Specs set btw does 50.23 - 59.52%.

Now, bar Hippowdon, probably the ultimate Physical set counter, lets look at everyone else. Ferrothorn, OU standard, 56.25 - 66.47% Sacred sword, CB 70.45 - 83.52% Sacred sword, Specs set is weaker here, doing 43.18 - 51.13% with shadow ball. The CB set does a better job at denting for a sweep later on.

Lastly, all your calcs are presuming you hit with the right move in the first place, if you Shadow ball then a Ferrothorn switches in, guess what, he won't be dying. If you try to do anything but shadow ball when a Hippowdon switches in, guess what, he's not dead, and you have to switch out or you are. T-Tar has to switch in on a Sacred sword, or he will outspeed and KO you... and the same goes for everything really...

Unless you 100% predict, they come in, and you have to switch or die, because with no HP EV's, your defences are so bad. I mean, to give you an idea, Hippowdon OHKO's with EQ, banded T-Tar kills you in attacking for with pursuit, if you switch or not, killing even the defensive form with Crunch.. The scarf sets destroys with Crunch. Dies to Heatran, dies to Salamance, dies to Dragonite, dies to Gliscor, dies to Garchomp, dies to etc, etc.

This is the thing you have to remember, while it's easier for you to get in than say, Darmanitan, due to your defences starting off higher and being a steel type, it still suffers from many of the same problem, while you can hit like a truck, but once that hit has been predicted you find yourself having to switch to do anything.

Now, it's important to say this... I don't think your set is a bad set at all, in fact, I'm a fan of it, but I don't like the talk for how only this set and that set can be run, while everthing else is inferior, which is not the case, the king's shield variants don't have to worry about switching because they can take the hit, the autotomize don't have to worry switching because they outspeed, the choice scarf set can outspeed and kill, while the choice band/specs set fill the "hit anything that switches in like a truck" better than your set does, the balloon set shines at making many counters having to resorting to breaking your balloon first, giving you that extra move to KO, while your set shines at being a wall breaker, riskier to switch in on because you have the appropriate coverage.

Don't take anything I say about your set as a bad thing, it just has weaknesses, and the true way to measure a set isn't about it's strengths, but by it's weaknesses, so that's what I'm trying to point out.

 

[Dragontamer]

Unless you 100% predict, they come in, and you have to switch or die, because with no HP EV's, your defences are so bad. I mean, to give you an idea, Hippowdon OHKO's with EQ, banded T-Tar kills you in attacking for with pursuit, if you switch or not, killing even the defensive form with Crunch.. The scarf sets destroys with Crunch. Dies to Heatran, dies to Salamance, dies to Dragonite, dies to Gliscor, dies to Garchomp, dies to etc, etc.

What is wrong with switch or die? If your opponent is playing half-decent Pokemon, he will constantly be putting you into "switch or die" situations. Good opponents FORCE switch or die. Good opponents FORCE it whether or not you use King's Shield. That is the problem, King's Shield does NOT help you in those situations.

I admit that King's Shield helps against Pursuit (which is a die-or-die situation). But that is it. It does NOT help against any other situation, and CASTRATES a much needed moveslot for Aegislash.

The difference between your thinking and UltiMario's thinking, is that UltiMario has a clear picture of what a respectable opponent does. Please, respect your opponent, and assume they will be half-decent at this game. If you don't, then when you face against that Master, they will rock your face off. If you are playing against a master Pokemon player, they will choose either a check, or a true counter to Aegislash. And they WILL force it out. It is basic strategy 101. Switch pokemon with an advantage against your opponent. It is literally the first thing you learn when you start playing this game.

UltiMario assumes the opponent is of expert-level. He is looking at the best possible move that the opponent can do, and has now maximized the damage output against the best possible move. Your King's Shield "strategy" does not accomplish this, and is therefore inferior. There is nothing else to say. I cannot think of a single situation, outside of pursuit, where King's Shield is more useful than just switching out.

If you believe you are correct, then prove me wrong. List me the situations where staying in and using King's Shield is actually a good strategy against Hippowdon.

 

[BROloom]

What is wrong with switch or die? If your opponent is playing half-decent Pokemon, he will constantly be putting you into "switch or die" situations. Good opponents FORCE switch or die. Good opponents FORCE it whether or not you use King's Shield. That is the problem, King's Shield does NOT help you in those situations.

I admit that King's Shield helps against Pursuit (which is a die-or-die situation). But that is it. It does NOT help against any other situation, and CASTRATES a much needed moveslot for Aegislash.

The difference between your thinking and UltiMario's thinking, is that UltiMario has a clear picture of what a respectable opponent does. Please, respect your opponent, and assume they will be half-decent at this game. If you don't, then when you face against that Master, they will rock your face off.

Please dragontamer, don't talk down to me, it's not respectful at all, nor is it a good way to discuss what works and what doesn't. Just because I believe something works and you don't, doesn't mean I'm not respecting my opponents, it means I have a different view of how something works. Honestly, you say criticism of sets is fine, but if someone disagrees with your ideas, that's not okay and they are clearly not respecting an opponent. Either let me criticizing your view point, or stop criticizing others.

The reason for Kings shield is it allows you to abuse both the 150 attack and 150 defence, without having to switch. The advantages of that means that that A. You don't have to switch into something that would be less ideal to switch into that yourself. Seeing as there isn't anything in OU that can both both 150 defences and 150 attacks, in most situations, Aegislash being on the field in his defensive state, is more ideal than anything else. Secondly, the ability of stay in allows you to keep a +2 boost, as I've said, setting up a sword dance leaves you able to decimate most things, in fact, decimate more things than any other set can, however, to achieve that, you need to set up, and to do that takes just one turn, which makes it all worth it, however, without king's shield, the sword dance set needs to exit after every attack, and set up after every re-entry, that would make it a sub-par set, however, kings shield not only acts like protect (I recommend you click that link to see how protect is still, a very useful move, even in singles), it allows you to essentially, be running 150 attacks and 150 defences at the same time, along with lowering attack by 2 stages with contact moves, this means essentially, if there is not a STAB earthquake user, or a user of a STAB super effective special attack, you will decimate almost anything that is thrown in front of you, all while being able to take attacks without worry.

Switching in and out is fine, but the ability to stay in a much more favourable. If you have to switch out, then yes, switch out, you give your opponent a free attack, free damage, but you don't lose a pokemon and possibly gain momentum. With king's shield, it allows it so you don't lose a poke, you don't have to switch out, and so your opponent doesn't get a free attack, at best, all they get is a free switch, which better be able to deal with 150 defences and 150 attack stats... all while giving you momentum again.

Now, clearly you don't think King's shield is good, and that's fine, but I disagree, and I suggest we end the discussion about it here, because so far apart from saying "it take up a moveslot" you have added nothing to how the move is bad, or how the sword dance set isn't viable. Even if you did, I've heard the arguments against it, and I disagree with them, so I suggest we no longer discuss is, because your condescending speech on the subject is intolerable.

 

[Dragontamer]

Please dragontamer, don't talk down to me, it's not respectful at all, nor is it a good way to discuss what works and what doesn't. Just because I believe something works and you don't, doesn't mean I'm not respecting my opponents, it means I have a different view of how something works. Honestly, you say criticism of sets is fine, but if someone disagrees with your ideas, that's not okay and they are clearly not respecting an opponent. Either let me criticizing your view point, or stop criticizing others.

I'm not trying to insult you here, but you need to think about your opponent's best move. You are assuming that the opponent doesn't switch in a textbook counter or a check. You are assuming the opponent will let you Swords Dance. You are assuming that the opponent hasn't run these damage calculations ahead of time and hasn't figured out a battle plan.

Perhaps "respect" is the wrong word. Would it be nicer if I said that your imaginary opponent is a terrible player? Whatever it is, your battle plan assumes a suboptimal opponent.

The reason for Kings shield is it allows you to abuse both the 150 attack and 150 defence, without having to switch. The advantages of that means that that A. You don't have to switch into something that would be less ideal to switch into that yourself. Seeing as there isn't anything in OU that can both both 150 defences and 150 attacks, in most situations, Aegislash being on the field in his defensive state, is more ideal than anything else. Secondly, the ability of stay in allows you to keep a +2 boost, as I've said, setting up a sword dance leaves you able to decimate most things, in fact, decimate more things than any other set can, however, to achieve that, you need to set up, and to do that takes just one turn, which makes it all worth it, however, without king's shield, the sword dance set needs to exit after every attack, and set up after every re-entry, that would make it a sub-par set, however, kings shield not only acts like protect (I recommend you click that link to see how protect is still, a very useful move, even in singles), it allows you to essentially, be running 150 attacks and 150 defences at the same time, along with lowering attack by 2 stages with contact moves, this means essentially, if there is not a STAB earthquake user, or a user of a STAB super effective special attack, you will decimate almost anything that is thrown in front of you, all while being able to take attacks without worry.

Name me a Swords Dance / King's Shield set that "decimates" Gliscor, Hippowdon, or CB Garchomp. What does King's Shield do about Will-o-Wisp? Hypnosis? What does King's Shield do against Taunt or Encore users?

Staying away from the weird gimmicks, King's Shield does NOT help against bulky waters and bulky grounds. You have an ENTIRE class of Pokemon that straight up deal with Aegislash, and good teams in the past have run multiple bulky pokemon. (In fact, this thread here is talking about running 4 to 6 bulky offense pokemon, any of which serve as a counter to the King's Shield Aegislash sets you've proposed). Mind you, I've been sticking with "textbook" counters to your proposed sets. We haven't even started on valid "checks". (ie: Heatran is a perfectly valid check, switching in safely against Swords Dance, Shadow Sneak, Shadow Claw, or Iron Head).

A good opponent will switch in a counter or a check immediately. Every time, all the time. It is the best move. Expecting anything less than this is simply underestimating the opponent. And hence my choice of words: you're disrespecting your opponent. When evaluating the worthiness of sets, you MUST assume your opponent switches in a valid Check or Counter.

Expecting anything less from the opponent is disrespecting him. Again, this is not an insult to you, I'm trying to explain a concept here...

Switching in and out is fine, but the ability to stay in a much more favourable. If you have to switch out, then yes, switch out, you give your opponent a free attack, free damage, but you don't lose a pokemon and possibly gain momentum. With king's shield, it allows it so you don't lose a poke, you don't have to switch out, and so your opponent doesn't get a free attack, at best, all they get is a free switch, which better be able to deal with 150 defences and 150 attack stats... all while giving you momentum again.

With King's Shield, that Garchomp Switch-in has just been given a free turn to Swords Dance. Gliscor can Swords Dance, Rock Polish, Substitute or Stealth Rocks. I may do that if I predicted you switching out. I honestly wouldn't expect the King's Shield, but it is a strictly worse move, giving these powerful pokemon the opportunity to setup on you. Togekiss has Nasty Plot and perfect coverage with Fairy / Shadow Ball (outside of Pyroar). Bulky Crobat can Hypnosis you, and easily survives the Shadow Sneak.

Substitute + Setup is a valid set on virtually all of Aegislash's counters. Are you really willing to risk King's Shield and give your opponent a Substitute? Hell no, you want to switch in a counter immediately, so that they're only 1 turn behind, as opposed to 2 turns behind.

Playing the King's Shield game is NOT favorable to Aegislash if you're up against a respectable opponent. It is far more important to switch out, and counter the opponent's nascent strategy before it builds momentum. You weren't going to beat that pokemon when it gave you a 1 Turn advantage, and you certainly aren't going to beat it now that you've wasted your 1-turn advantage (and a moveslot) on King's Shield.

Now, clearly you don't think King's shield is good, and that's fine, but I disagree, and I suggest we end the discussion about it here, because so far apart from saying "it take up a moveslot" you have added nothing to how the move is bad, or how the sword dance set isn't viable. Even if you did, I've heard the arguments against it, and I disagree with them, so I suggest we no longer discuss is, because your condescending speech on the subject is intolerable.

It takes up a moveslot, and it doesn't give you any benefits against any of the opponent's best moves. In fact, it can put you in a worse situation, especially if the opponent is using one of Aegislash's hard counters.

 

[BROloom]

I'm not trying to insult you here, but you need to think about your opponent's best move. You are assuming that the opponent doesn't switch in a textbook counter or a check. You are assuming the opponent will let you Swords Dance. You are assuming that the opponent hasn't run these damage calculations ahead of time and hasn't figured out a battle plan.

Perhaps "respect" is the wrong word. Would it be nicer if I said that your imaginary opponent is a terrible player? Whatever it is, your battle plan assumes a suboptimal opponent, and you're covering it up by saying "Well, I don't have to win against that situation"...



Name me a Swords Dance / King's Shield set that "decimates" Gliscor, Hippowdon, or CB Garchomp. What does King's Shield do about Will-o-Wisp? What about Thunder Wave? Hypnosis? What does King's Shield do against Taunt or Encore users?

Staying away from the weird gimmicks, King's Shield does NOT help against bulky waters and bulky grounds. You have an ENTIRE class of Pokemon that straight up deal with Aegislash, and good teams in the past have run multiple bulky pokemon. (In fact, this thread here is talking about running 4 to 6 bulky offense pokemon, any of which serve as a counter to the King's Shield Aegislash sets you've proposed). Mind you, I've been sticking with "textbook" counters to your proposed sets. We haven't even started on valid "checks". (ie: Heatran is a perfectly valid check, switching in safely against Swords Dance, Shadow Sneak, Shadow Claw, or Iron Head).

A good opponent will switch in a counter or a check immediately. Every time, all the time. It is the best move. Expecting anything less than this is simply underestimating the opponent. And hence my choice of words: you're disrespecting your opponent.



With King's Shield, that Garchomp Switch-in has just been given a free turn to Swords Dance. Gliscor can Swords Dance, Rock Polish, or Stealth Rocks. I may do that if I predicted you switching out. I honestly wouldn't expect the King's Shield, but it is a strictly worse move, giving these powerful pokemon the opportunity to setup on you. Togekiss has Nasty Plot and perfect coverage with Fairy / Shadow Ball (outside of Pyroar). Bulky Crobat can Hypnosis you, and easily survives the Shadow Sneak.

Even lowly Hippowdon potentially sets up with Stealth Rocks while you play King's Shield shennanigans. After all, Hippowdon and Gliscor are safe against +4 Shadow Sneak and OHKO back with Earthquake. Playing the King's Shield game is NOT favorable to Aegislash if you're up against a respectable opponent. It is far more important to switch out, and counter the opponent's potential strategy.



It takes up a moveslot, and it doesn't give you any benefits against any of the opponent's best moves. In fact, it can put you in a worse situation, especially if the opponent is using one of Aegislash's hard counters.

How about you respect your own ability to play pokemon, to respect a players running their own Aegislash with Kings shield, and not expect them to make stupid decision.

Once Aegislash is in, most pokemon will have no choice to let you get a sword dance up, unless you were stupid, and switched it in on a pokemon that can badly hurt aegislash, then you will get that sword dance up. See, your presuming here the aegislash player is bad, and switched in when he shouldn't have, I'm presuming the Aegislash player isn't a dumbass, and knew when to switch in.

Like ALL set up sweepers, once they're in, the opponent going to switch, and you'll get a free turn to set up (or attack if predicting a switch to something that can counter them even after a boost), and there isn't anything you can do to stop it, that's why they're going to try to set up, because it's the right time to. Name me a taunt or encore user that can switch into and unboosted 150 base attack shadow claw or Sacred sword with no other boost. There isn't too much. Now of that list, name me ones that can take ANOTHER hit? Your list get pretty small here. Will-o-wisp... yes, that does ruin a Physical sets day, but if it is incoming, why is the aegislash not switching... why did he set up in the first place? Tell me a will-o-wisp user that wants to switch into Aegislash's attacks? Because again, there aren't many. Hypnosis is not popular, so I'm confused at your mention of that, but you can apply sleep to stopping pretty much any pokemon. As far as t-wave is concerned, it's an annoyance, but since kings shield still changes your form when fully para'd, and you don't care about speed, it still sits there as an annoyance, not a counter.

How do all bulky waters/grounds take a +2 shadows claw or sacred sword? Because some do, but not all of them. King's shields helps by (I can't believe I'm explaining this to your AGAIN) putting you in your defensive form, and most of those bulky water and ground are going to find it hard to break through your 60/150/150 defences before you break through theirs.

An opponent will switch in a counter or check immediately, but why are you trying to set up while they are still around... are you a bad player or something? You don't set up while they're still around, but instead hit them with a base 438 attack + LO as they switch in, because they can only do that a couple of times before its game over for them.

Onto your Garchomp example, I'll say again, while garchomp is still around, your Aegislash should still be used as a pivot, meaning instead of sword dancing, you should be attacking, so that he switches into your attack, and takes a high portion of damage (52.51 - 62.56%) upon switching in, now being below 50%, he can't switch in next time. You've essentially set yourself up to take him out later on. As for garchomp coming in for the revenge kill, let me ask you this, on UltiMario set, what is he going to do at this point, with a garchomp staring him in the face? That's right, switch... what does garchomp do? Sword dance. If I king's shield and he sword dances... guess what, it's exactly the same in BOTH situations, either way, garchomp has a sword dance boost. It's your job as a player, to not let that happen. You expect one set to make all the right decisions, yet expect the kings shield set to make all the wrong ones, that's your problem.

And for the umpteenth time don't mention shadow sneak, it's a bad move to run on the king's shield set, and you mentioning it doesn't show the king's shield set is bad, just that shadow sneak on it is bad. And to point out how you think a KS Aegislash player is stupid to fit your own agenda again, why the hell, would any decent player EVER shadow sneak on something that would KO their weaker defence form in return... WHY? A good player probably wouldn't run shadow sneak, let alone do that scenario, so stop pretending KS aegislash players play dumb to suit your own agenda.

It takes up a movesolt and gives you a damn good benefit against most pokemon in the game, and for the few that can counter you... great, don't use it on them, don't stay in, don't set up on them while they're still in. All pokemon in OU have a way to counter them, that's why they're in OU, not ubers, but you're acting because there are ways to counter the set, that it means it's the end of the world for that Aegislash. Wrong, all of the Aegislash have counters, but not one pokemon counters ALL of them, and that's what makes it more powerful.


Lastly, minor notes, you mention heatran as a check, but exclude sacred sword to deal with him. Again, most sets have sacred sword, and you only excluded it to fit your agenda. And you expect your opponents to out predict you, but you never expect the Aegislash user to out predict them. Bulky Crobat can Hypnosis you, but he can do that to anything slower than him, I fail to see your point, he also can't touch you in any way bar heat-wave in December. Not only that, but stall breaker Crobat switching into a shadow claw has a tiny chance to KO with rocks up, and leaves him dead upon re-entry (edit: Infact, +2 shadow sneak will KO with rocks up most of the time, so that instantly makes it too risky for Crobat to switch in).

 

[Dragontamer]

How about you respect your own ability to play pokemon, to respect a players running their own Aegislash with Kings shield, and not expect them to make stupid decision.

What? No matter how good of a player I am, I cannot force the opponent to use crappy strategies against me. Now I admit, I've included some wonky stuff in my previous post because I think I'm getting bored with this discussion, and hoped to liven things up a bit with weird creative shit... I apologize for leading you astray, but I'm going to ignore the wonky encore taunt / crap I talked about earlier and focus on the legitimate strategy here. For the interest of time, I'll cede all of the other points you brought up, and instead focus solely on what I believe to be the core misunderstanding between you and me:

Onto your Garchomp example, I'll say again, while garchomp is still around, your Aegislash should still be used as a pivot, meaning instead of sword dancing, you should be attacking, so that he switches into your attack, and takes a high portion of damage (52.51 - 62.56%) upon switching in, now being below 50%, he can't switch in next time. You've essentially set yourself up to take him out later on. As for garchomp coming in for the revenge kill, let me ask you this, on UltiMario set, what is he going to do at this point, with a garchomp staring him in the face? That's right, switch... what does garchomp do? Sword dance. If I king's shield and he sword dances... guess what, it's exactly the same in BOTH situations, either way, garchomp has a sword dance boost. It's your job as a player, to not let that happen. You expect one set to make all the right decisions, yet expect the kings shield set to make all the wrong ones, that's your problem.

You honestly don't see the difference?

In the King's Shield case, Garchomp is now +2 and facing down a pokemon he OHKOs. If you switch Aegislash out now, Garchomp gets TWO free attacks against your check / counter (The first "free attack" was the Swords Dance because you played dumb King's Shield games. The 2nd "free attack" is whatever he is doing right now). If you fail to switch-out Aegislash, then Garchomp has a chance of OHKOing him easily with +2 Earthquake.

In the UltiMario "intelligent switchout" case, Garchomp is now +2 BUT is facing down a pokemon that either checks or counters him.

In UltiMario's case, Weavile or Mamoswine (checks against Garchomp) snuck in on the predicted Swords Dance, and force Garchomp out. In your case, Garchomp gets to wail on Weavile / Mamoswine for free, and possibly kills them on the switch-in with a +2 whatever the heck he wants. A textbook case of "counter" would be Skarmory, who switches into the Swords Dance, and whirlwinds Garchomp away while surviving a resisted Outrage. However, in your case (because you wasted a turn on King's Shield), Skarmory is instead 2HKOed by +2 Outrage or Fire Blast, and you quite possibly have lost the match.

Losing a single turn is fine: so long as your Check or Counter is in the field. Sacrificing a SECOND turn against a good player costs you your counter, and possibly the game entirely. Do you honestly not see the difference in the two cases you've listed??

Understanding the difference between the two cases you've listed here is absolutely key to understanding why King's Shield is such a terrible move. If you don't see it now, I don't know what else to say.

 

[BROloom]

What? No matter how good of a player I am, I cannot force the opponent to use crappy strategies against me. Now I admit, I've included some wonky stuff in my previous post because I think I'm getting bored with this discussion, and hoped to liven things up a bit with weird creative shit... since you fail to listen. I apologize for leading you astray, but I'm going to ignore the wonky encore taunt / crap I talked about earlier and focus on the legitimate strategy here. You only have one argument, and it is this:



You honestly don't see the difference?

In the King's Shield case, Garchomp is now +2 and facing down a pokemon he OHKOs. If you switch Aegislash out now, Garchomp gets TWO free attacks against your check / counter (The first "free attack" was the Swords Dance because you played dumb King's Shield games. The 2nd "free attack" is whatever he is doing right now). If you fail to switch-out Aegislash, then Garchomp has a chance of OHKOing him easily with +2 Earthquake.

In the UltiMario "intelligent switchout" case, Garchomp is now +2 BUT is facing down a pokemon that either checks or counters him.

In UltiMario's case, Weavile or Mamoswine (checks against Garchomp) snuck in on the predicted Swords Dance, and force Garchomp out. In your case, Garchomp gets to wail on Weavile / Mamoswine for free, and possibly kills them on the switch-in with a +2 whatever the heck he wants. A textbook case of "counter" would be Skarmory, who switches into the Swords Dance, and whirlwinds Garchomp away while surviving a resisted Outrage. However, in your case (because you wasted a turn on King's Shield), Skarmory is instead 2HKOed by +2 Outrage, and you quite possibly have lost the match.

Losing a single turn is fine: so long as your Check or Counter is in the field. Sacrificing a SECOND turn against a good player costs you your counter, and possibly the game entirely. Do you honestly not see the difference in the two cases you've listed??

Understanding the difference between the two cases you've listed here is absolutely key to understanding why King's Shield is such a terrible move. If you don't see it now, I don't know what else to say.

If you mean that's the only arguement you can try and pick apart with your reason to make it fit your agenda? Then yes, you'd be right, the rest stands up and at least you admitted the problems with your encore/t-wave/other crap.

The Garchomp was an example for any pokemon, I wouldn't stay in on Garchomp specifically, unless I was running a balloon set, because Garchomp does actually hurt Aegislash. The point I was making, is that if a pokemon threatens to boost, in either the kings shield scenario or the mixed set scenario, at the end of the day, the opposing pokemon ends up getting the boost, and you now have to deal with it. Now, as the Kings shield set, you have to decide is it more beneficial for you to try and take it the hit with your Aegislash, or is it more beneficial to switch out and take a hit with a different pokemon. In the Garchomp case, it is better to switch out, but in say a Dragonite, he can come in, threaten to kill my weak defences with fire punch, and threaten to set up with dragon dance, however, in my defensive state, if I'm at +2, he can only 2HKO me, while I can OHKO if scale is broke, meaning I come out on top as long as rocks is up. Now, I could switch to a different pokemon to handle him, but there isn't much better than a ghost/steel to handle dragonite, being immune to extremespeed and resisting outrage/dragon claw. This is presuming lum berry or life orb, if you have rocks and multiscale is broken, you OHKO before he can 2HKO you. Then there is also the fact one wrong prediction from the LO dragonite, and it sets up when you attack, making it dead, not something a smart player will always risk.

I wouldn't kings shield then switch, because I'm not a dumbass player, I would have switched in the first place, I also would have set up while a counter was still around, but again, you presume the KS user is dumbass, just to fit your agenda of the KS set sucking, which it doesn't, it's just not a "press button I win" mode.

Honestly, you picked the one thing you could argue against, and still haven't proved anything. Please, stop thinking the KS user would make stupid plays with it, and that's why it sucks, and start looking at how he can use it for his advantage, maybe then you'll start to get somewhere.

 

[Dragontamer]

In the Garchomp case, it is better to switch out, but in say a Dragonite, he can come in, threaten to kill my weak defences with fire punch, and threaten to set up with dragon dance, however, in my defensive state, if I'm at +2, he can only 3HKO me, while I can OHKO if scale is broke, or 2HKO otherwise, meaning I come out on top. Now, I could switch to a different pokemon to handle him, but there isn't much better than a ghost/steel to handle dragonite, being immune to extremespeed and resisting outrage/dragon claw. This is presuming lum berry, not life orb, but again, if you have rocks and multiscale is broken, you OHKO anyway. Then there is also the fact one wrong prediction from the LO dragonite, and it sets up when you attack, making it dead, not something a smart player will always risk.

You did it again. You are disrespecting the opponent's choice. YOU don't decide that Dragonite switches into Aegislash. YOUR OPPONENT chooses who switches in. Why are you assuming that the opponent has made a suboptimal choice?

EDIT: I'm willing to listen btw. But our discussion so far is clearly counterproductive. You cannot expect me to prove a negative. I cannot prove that there is "no useful situation for King's Shield" (outside of pursuit, which I have ceded to you already).

Instead, it is your responsibility to demonstrate a non-pursuit situation where King's Shield is useful. I only ask that you make sure that the opponent makes "respectable" moves. None of this "assume that D-Nite spams Fire Punch, taking a -2 Penalty against King's Shield every turn" (Do you expect me to believe a respectable opponent will switch in a physical contact-move user against Aegislash?)

 

[BROloom]

You did it again. You are disrespecting the opponent's choice. YOU don't decide that Dragonite switches into Aegislash. YOUR OPPONENT chooses who switches in. Why are you assuming that the opponent has made a suboptimal choice? As I've made clear in this thread repeatedly, there are tons of very good pokemon that wall common Aegislash sets.

But sure, we can agree to disagree here. I don't think you understand what I'm trying to tell you. And instead of listening to me, you've begun to actively insult me.

EDIT: I'm willing to listen btw. But our discussion so far is clearly counterproductive. You cannot expect me to prove a negative. I cannot prove that there is "no useful situation for King's Shield" (outside of pursuit, which I have ceded to you already).

Instead, it is your responsibility to demonstrate a non-pursuit situation where King's Shield is useful. I only ask that you make sure that the opponent makes "respectable" moves. None of this "assume that D-Nite spams Fire Punch, taking a -2 Penalty against King's Shield every turn" crappy opponent assumptions. (Do you seriously expect me to believe a respectable opponent will switch in a physical contact-move user against Aegislash?)

I haven't insulted you at all, just said you ignore certain things to fit your agenda.

And please tell me HOW I'm disrespecting the opponent by saying dragonite switches into Aegislash? It was a good example and I'll explain to you why. In a set that lacks King's Shield, Dragonite can come in and revenge kill with a fire punch, this kills both the 252HP sets in Attacking mode, and obviously UltiMario's 0 HP set. This means you HAVE to switch, or risk dying to the fire punch, this allows Dragonite to either hit something hard on the switch, or set up with dragon dance. Now, lets say he decided to dragon dance, whatever you switch in probably won't be able to switch in and KO back. Skarmory for example, can come in, but is limited to phasing him out. This is a situation, where without king's shield, Dragonite forces you out, and unless you have something that can effectively stop him, he'll inflict a good amount of damage to your team, however with the kings shield set, it allows you to stay in, and be a prime Dragonite killer, taking the fire punch and KOing in return. Not only that, but now you have a Aegislash still on the field at +2, meaning anything else coming in is likely to take a solid chunk of damage.

There you go, there is your usefulness of kings shield. Now, you may say "but you can have X pokemon to counter dragonite" and while that is true, you won't have a pokemon at +2 left on the field, and you'd have to spend a team slot on that pokemon, when instead of spending a whole teamslot on it, you could just spend a moveslot on it.

By the way, I love how you again, make it out like I said dragonite spammed fire punch, which when you look at what I said, I never said that at all, I said he'd set up with dragon dance, which KS Aegislash can counter, only pointing out fire punch kills non KS sets. Nowhere in that have I relied on KS making dragonite go down -2, but only on switching Aegislash into his defensive form. This is why I say you ignore stuff and make the Aegislash player bad, to fit your agenda, because that is what you've done, and now you've tried to twist my words to make the KS Aegislash set appear to be bad.

The Mixed set dies to Dnites fire punch, a 252hp set can die to dnites fire punch, the KS Aegislash doesn't need KS to make Dnite take -2, but just needs it to switch forms, so that Dnite can't kill it, but it can kill dnite (admittedly, it does need rocks up to break multiscale, but that isn't too difficult to make happen with a ghost type, if rocks aren't up, then it would be better to switch). That is just one example, there are numerous other points where you could KS to be in defensive form and take a hit and KO, where otherwise without KS you'd be forced to switch and lose momentum, especially as the game wears on and damage starts to rack up. KS allows you to switch still, if it's too scary to stay in, but it also allows you to stay in where you couldn't otherwise. The -2 part of KS is a bonus that stops CB sets, not the part that you use it for.

Edit: Some of my calculations on D-nite were incorrect, and have edit to reflect to correct calculations, but as long as multiscale is broken, Aegislash comes out on top, admittedly not as well against a LO set, but comes out on top regardless.

Edit: Another example, choice band Azumarill, if the game has worn on, you've taken a bit of damage and are around half health, Azumarill can come in and KO the 252HP sets from starting from 55.55% health, while killing the 0HP with Aqua jet from 68.96%, the KS set guarantees to put it at -2, meaning he can only do max 30% with waterfall, basically, without KS, he can revenge kill after a little damage/LO recoil, while with KS, he can not at all, while you could just KO him. Azumarill is probably the only pokemon I'd recommend running speed on, just so you only have to take a Aqua Jet instead of a Waterfall (not that I think an Azumarill would risk it anyway). Removing KS gives him other advantages, but also means some pokemon can effectively hurt him. Now, please don't say "a smart player won't use CB Azumarill against KS Aegislash", because you're right, they won't, but that's point, they would if he didn't run it, they won't because he does.

Another example, CB Scizor, I know you said outside pursuit, but it is worth noting the OU's most overused pokemon laughs at a set without KS, while with KS, he becomes deathly afraid, since he can't KO, and is KO's 50% of the time, or 100% after rocks.

 

[Kriptini]

Instead, it is your responsibility to demonstrate a non-pursuit situation where King's Shield is useful. I only ask that you make sure that the opponent makes "respectable" moves. None of this "assume that D-Nite spams Fire Punch, taking a -2 Penalty against King's Shield every turn" (Do you expect me to believe a respectable opponent will switch in a physical contact-move user against Aegislash?)

Well first, Toxic stall, because then it works like Protect, only (potentially) better.

Second, if you know you can't OHKO your foe, and you know that they can't OHKO you, King's Shield is good because it puts you into Defense Stance. Then you can either Swords Dance (if you're faster than them) or attack (if they're faster than you). Let's say your foe is using Cloyster as their Phyiscal Wall because he fits their team the best. Cloyster doesn't have a way to take down Aegislash before Aegislash sets up (if Aegislash is faster) or kills him (if Aegislash is slower). Now, your foe could easily just switch to whichever Poke they have that knows Taunt... but what if their Taunter is dead?

Aegislash, like all set-up sweepers, becomes more threatening as he enters lategame because there's a higher chance that with every KO your team scores, his counter is dead. A good way to observe this behavior is in 3v3s, where by reducing the number of Pokes a team has by half, it's much more unlikely that an Aegislash counter is on the enemy team.

Another popular set-up sweeper is Volcarona. While setting up, Volcarona is pretty susceptible to physical attacks but has a nice special bulk. Aegislash, on the other hand, has both areas covered, so for the sake of saying "who's a safer sweeper," the answer is inherently Aegislash.

The difference between Aegislash and your usual set-up sweeper, is that Aegislash is extremely bulky while he sets up, meaning there's much less risk involved for him. In this way, he is able to transition from a Pivot in early game to a very safe Set-Up Sweeper lategame.

 

[Dragontamer]

I haven't insulted you at all, just said you ignore certain things to fit your agenda.

And please tell me HOW I'm disrespecting the opponent by saying dragonite switches into Aegislash?

Because I've so far listed many pokemon that beat both King's Shield and Non-King's Shield form ON THE COUNTER . Garchomp, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Gastrodon. It is a mistake to switch into anything else if you are going to pivot vs Aegislash.

And you've listed a Pokemon, (Dragonite), who can't even deal with Aegislash on even grounds after a revenge kill. On the revenge kill, I'm switching in HEATRAN, Volcarona, Hydreigon or Mamoswine. If Aegislash was even somewhat injured, Life Orb EQ TTar. These are CHECKS against Aegislash. Pokemon that 100% beat the pokemon on Even Grounds, even after Aegislash has been given a Swords Dance for free, and have a chance of beating him if they intelligently switch in (but if out-predicted, these pokemon fail to counter Aegislash).

It doesn't matter what set these pokemon are up against, they win, 100% of the time in the situation they were designed for. So I ask you: why are you assuming that the opponent doesn't do any of these Pokemon? Why do you assume the opponent goes along with your battle-plan, with something as lulzy as Fire Punching Dragonite which is owned by King's Shield?

Another example, CB Scizor, I know you said outside pursuit, but it is worth noting the OU's most overused pokemon laughs at a set without KS, while with KS, he becomes deathly afraid, since he can't KO, and is KO's 50% of the time, or 100% after rocks.

I've already ceded all pursuit users to King's Shield. I know King's Shield is useful in that situation.

 

[BROloom]

Because I've so far listed many pokemon that beat both King's Shield and Non-King's Shield form ON THE COUNTER . Garchomp, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Gastrodon. It is a mistake to switch into anything else if you are going to pivot vs Aegislash.

And you've listed a Pokemon, (Dragonite), who can't even deal with Aegislash on even grounds after a revenge kill. On the revenge kill, I'm switching in HEATRAN, Volcarona, Hydreigon or Mamoswine. If Aegislash was even somewhat injured, Life Orb EQ TTar. These are CHECKS against Aegislash. Pokemon that 100% beat the pokemon on Even Grounds, even after Aegislash has been given a Swords Dance for free, and have a chance of beating him if they intelligently switch in (but if out-predicted, these pokemon fail to counter Aegislash).

It doesn't matter what set these pokemon are up against, they win, 100% of the time in the situation they were designed for. So I ask you: why are you assuming that the opponent doesn't do any of these Pokemon? Why do you assume the opponent goes along with your battle-plan, with something as lulzy as Fire Punching Dragonite which is owned by King's Shield?



I've already ceded all pursuit users to King's Shield. I know King's Shield is useful in that situation.

I don't get where your going with this. You're talking about pokemon that will beat Aegislash no matter what, and expecting me to pull a way to 100% KO them.

The problem is that 2nd mario set you were talking about suffers the same problems as far as the sword dance set, he posted stats about how X pokemon switches in on the perfect move... Why would your opponent be switching in on the perfect move? You're talking about respecting your opponent, then you expect them to do stuff like that.

And then it comes to the fact that a SD/KS set can do EXACTLY the same thing, while a Garchomp is alive, while a Gliscor is is still around, you don't SD, but instead act as a pivot, and start weakening those walls, meaning they'll be easy to finish of later, and will be finished of later. That is the EXACT way marios set dealt with those threats, and it's the exact way a SD set deals with those threats early game.

The problem with his Aegislash (which again, is not a bad set, but it's not so superior like you're making out), is that it has no way to take a hit, that's why I showed you dragonite, that's why I showed you Azumarill, because they can come in, and scare Aegislash off. In one case, you're possibly letting Dnite get up a dragon dance, or in both, you're letting a switch in get hit hard, and they aren't the only pokemon that have this situation. A choice scarf Keldeo can come in and threaten to revenge kill marios 2nd set, which takes 113.02 - 133.33 damage from hydro pump. While if you KS to get into your defensive stance, you're talking 42.59 - 50.3%, and KOing it in return. That's where the magic of the KS set shines, because it can serve as an extra wall to take a hit, but then still KO any opponent with ease.

I'm not assuming that the opponent will use the dragonite to revenge kill the KS set... because he CAN'T, that's the point, HE CAN'T, even after dragon dancing, while with marios 2nd set, it gets shit all over by a revenge killing dnite with fire punch, it gets killed by a revenge killing Azumaril, it gets killed by Scizor, it gets revenge killed by Keldeo, it gets revenge killed by pretty much everything, after one attack it gets forced out by EVERYTHING, and that's not a good trait to have, since all the opponent has to do it not be a dumbass (which is what we're trying to establish, right?), not switch into a move he's weak to... and then Aegislash has to switch out to almost any pokemon that hits decently powerful, because it has no way to protect itself, the KS set would not have the problem, being able to switch into his defensive stance.

Marios set has a massive problem with smart resisted switches or being revenge killed, since if one of those is achieved, a switch has to happen, sending out a possible pokemon to die or take something powerful, while the KS set has problems with burns and taunters will make him switch (but the taunters also die, so even there it's not a great counter...)

I'm not trying to argue the KS set is unbeatable, and I don't know why you're trying to make it out like I am, I'm just showing you that all Aegislash sets have a problem with something, and the KS set is easily as useful as any other set.

 

[ace combat]

I don't know why people are making Specially Defensive Aegislash with no HP EVs. This pokemon is actually more Specially Defensive with maximum HP EVs and no Special Defense EVs than it is with no HP EVs and maximum Special Defense EVs. And guess what, it gets better, with maximum HP EVs you can tank physical hits better too. The reason behind this is the stat spread of this pokemon. The defenses are 60/150/150 with HP being the pathetically low 60. This means that you will have a greater percentage change in the special defense of this pokemon if you add EVs to HP rather than Special Defense. Due to it having a high 150 base stat in Special Defense you will not yield as much of a percentage increase to its Special Defense. Here are some cals that help prove my point:

252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 6 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 216-254 (82.44 - 96.94%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 6 SpD (custom): 254-300 (78.39 - 92.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 6 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 203-242 (77.48 - 92.36%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 6 SpD (custom): 242-283 (74.69 - 87.34%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 6 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 102-120 (38.93 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 6 SpD (custom): 120-141 (37.03 - 43.51%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

This is clearly better, now for physical hits:

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def (custom): 230-272 (87.78 - 103.81%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 230-272 (70.98 - 83.95%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 6 HP / 0 Def (custom): 146-174 (55.72 - 66.41%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 146-174 (45.06 - 53.7%) -- 33.98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Ideally you really don't want to be tanking earthquakes from either of these two, but this really illustrates my point

 

[Slheyas]

Aegislash's biggest threat is easily Sucker Punch. The only thing saving him from being completely destroyed by it everytime is that it's priority and thus hits the shield (unless it's used by a slower Pokemon, which is unlikely).

But anyway, a Dark Type using Sucker Punch won't really care for Shadow Sneak, even at +2 so a 2HKO with Sucker Punch on Shield Form is pretty much fine.

150 Atk or not, a 40BP move when resisted is still crappy damage.

 

[Kalut123]

Heatran can't switch in on aegislash though, unless he likes swords danced sacred swords. XD

Heatran is a viable counter regardless. Just by base speed alone you can just outspeed and punish with Flamethrower/Fire Blast, there's no way your getting off a +2 Sacred Sword on him.
It's extremely easy to switch into Aegis if you are running the King's Shield set as there are multiple windows where I can switch in:

A) When you actually Swords Dance. Heatran got a free switch-in and Aegis can't do jack as +2 Shadow Sneak tells a very grim tale about Aegislash's fate.

B) After remaining in Swords Stance (most likely after an SD), there's no doubt you will King's Shield; granted you can Sacred Sword right here and now, but the fact that I haven't switched in Heatran before Scenario A makes this prediction/scenario even more unlikely. More often than not you WILL King's Shield, giving Hetaran his free switch-in.

In case your wondering this is what a +2 Shadow Sneak on Heatran looks like: (Deoxys-N used as the base)
+2 252+ Atk (custom) Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 153-180 (47.36 - 55.72%) -- 75.39% chance to 2HKO

Even without the Ghost resist, the best case scenario is a dice roll 2HKO. Not very good odds.

malamar could if he gets in before aegi could set up
cuz he's like one of the only ones who kinda walls aegislash

Malamar being Aegislash's foil is not niche enough to warrant OU status as it relatively sucks at everything else (or is outclassed). Gliscor and Hippowdon, now those are counters.

 

[Kalut123]

True, he is probably one of his best counters, but it really all depends on who I'm fighting against before he comes in however. If it's something like malamar, I'll go straight to the sacred sword to prevent getting topsy-turvey'ed or activating contrary with the shield. When Heatran comes in, he takes the hit, and then dies of shadow sneak the next turn. But this is very circumstantial. BTW, you gave shadow sneak STAB right? Not trying to insult, but just making sure.

Yes, I took that into account. Even if I didn't it's still a 2HKO at most.

Oh, wait we cant forget Set-Up Sweepers most favorite check: Skarmory. W/o rock support it's a guaranteed phaze. Too lazy to do the calcs, but I'm pretty sure he can Roost off the damage even at +2 while setting up a layer of hazards of it own. The problem is knowing whether it runs Sacred Sword (because Skarmory is definitely faster) and Whirlwind ASAP or wall it entirely.
EDIT:[this is based on experience entirely so I'll edit this post with concrete calcs later]

 

[Pac-man9]

Yes, I took that into account. Even if I didn't it's still a 2HKO at most.

Oh, wait we cant forget Set-Up Sweepers most favorite check: Skarmory. W/o rock support it's a guaranteed phaze. Too lazy to do the calcs, but I'm pretty sure he can Roost off the damage even at +2 while setting up a layer of hazards of it own. The problem is knowing whether it runs Sacred Sword (because Skarmory is definitely faster) and Whirlwind ASAP or wall it entirely.

Unless its the mixed aegislash, and nails you with shadow Ball or hidden power fire. Both do the same damage

 

[Ballofire]

I don't see Skarm checking aeigis at all outside of WW and to be honest I see skarms usage dropping even more since it lost its ghost and dark resist.

 

[Kalut123]

It's a check to the SD set if it ever becomes popular (which it probably will. It's the one most people agree functions, UltiMario Set notwithstanding).
And I'm only saying it "checks" due to the fact that it will always phaze (in the absence of hazards) it no matter what Physical Aegislash tries while setting up hazards. IIRC Whirlwind goes through King's Shield. If not, all it does is buy them a lefties heal.
Again, it's a check, not a counter.

Pacman made a good point that the mixed attacking set doesn't truly care, but I was referring to checking the SD set to begin with.

 

[Thorhammer]

For reference, 0 SpA LO Aegislash Shadow Ball vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory does 63.2%-74.4%.