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Metagame Almost Any Ability

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Laxpras, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. aesf

    aesf outskilled

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
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    636
    I feel like something worth pointing out in AAA is that, for offense, there are a lot of extremely strong attackers that are lacking in OU (like Noivern, Hoopa-U, MegaZam, Latios, Victini, etc., etc.) that can only be checked by either extremely tanky, passive pokemon like Chansey, or steel types like Magearna. If offensive brings dugtrio + one of these breakers, it suddenly has an almost unloseable matchup against stall teams without Dugtrio (or Weavile).
    Also, because stall is much more bulky in AAA, it takes much stronger pokemon to break it, and the majority of these pokemon (like Terrakion, Victini, Latios, Hoopa-U, and even to an extent Weavile and Keldeo), can get trapped and KO'd by dugtrio, effectively making the rest of the team much easier to deal with. Also, with many more solid magic bouncers and walls, sending in dugtrio to kill things doesn't sacrifice as much pressure as it usually does.

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyabilitysuspecttest-524015654 - Here, my only way of breaking walls is really tinted lens Keldeo in rain. Dugtrio traps and kills Keldeo, making the game much much more in his favor. In order to win, I had to win a bunch of 50/50s while also abusing illusion.

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyabilitysuspecttest-529065941 - I know I'm demonstrating this with a jynx, but it applies to really any strong special attacker; this replay shows how I was able to find the right opportunity to get Dugtrio in to trap Magearna and easily win with a psychic terrain pokemon once the special wall was gone.
  2. Eevee General

    Eevee General Should have been spam cleaned
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

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    So was your Tentacruel Sheer Force?
    SovereignC2 and Schpoonman like this.
  3. PokePrimer

    PokePrimer

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    From what I have seen of Fluffy and theory tested myself, its very difficult to overcome. Its weakness to special moves is mitigated by putting it on a very specially defensive mon or running assault vest. The fire type weakness is fixed by packing flash fire switch ins or putting it on a mon that heavily resists fire. a good example would be volcanion, who not only runs assault vest very well but is quad resistant to fire type moves, making an av volcanion with fluffy as an option pretty much insurmountable outside of toxic stall.
  4. Boopiester

    Boopiester

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    Dec 23, 2016
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    Steelworker (open)
    Klinklang, Cobalion, Alolan Dugtrio, Lucario, Durant... Plenty of offensive Steel-types love having double STAB on their Steel moves.
    [/quote]
    Kartana is OP with steelworker
  5. motherlove

    motherlove

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    Just wanted to share this cool set, idk if many ppl use it or anything:

    [​IMG]
    Hoopa-Unbound @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Fire Punch
    - Drain Punch
    - Psychic

    So yeah, Hoopa-u actually has a pretty sweet defensive typing, being immune to psychic and neutral to everything else (pretty much), so I decided to run in as AV garbage to have a bit more power than stuff like Meloetta. It's fat and hits hard basically, like it beats magearna 1v1 for example.

    252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hoopa-Unbound: 90-107 (24.7 - 29.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Adaptability Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hoopa-Unbound: 148-177 (40.7 - 48.7%)
    252 SpA Alakazam-Mega Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hoopa-Unbound: 66-78 (18.1 - 21.4%) -- possible 5HKO
    252+ SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Hoopa-Unbound: 186-222 (51.2 - 61.1%)

    Anyway it's kinda cool, try it out if you want. If you don't then don't. Have a wonderful day.
  6. darksylvion

    darksylvion

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    Actually that's a pretty cool set, I think gunk shot could be used with that set too, since it 2hkoes fini regardless of investment, making hoopa a decent check to Poison Heal fini(if it doesn't get burned that is).
  7. motherlove

    motherlove

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    Eh, Idk man, that's a sketchy check. For one Hoopa actually has a pretty hard time 2HKOing after protect (8 Atk Hoopa-Unbound Gunk Shot vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 170-202 (49.5 - 58.8%)) and on top of that hitting two gunk shot and dodging two burn isn't a particularly easy task (0.8*0.7*0.8*0.7 ~= 31%).

    Gunk shot is a cool option, but idk what move you'd forgo. Koff is the best stab move, psychic is cool to be mixed attacker and OHKO fighting types, dpunch pressures mons that would pursuit you and fire punch beats magearna.

    I had not played aaa for a bit actually, I had to make a new team since all my others were banned and I made it around grassy surge ferrothorn, that and PH bulu means I don't have much problem with fini most of the time.
    Here's the team if you want to try it out, it's kinda decent:
    Show Hide

    Minior-Violet @ Life Orb
    Ability: Aerilate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Return
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Explosion

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Grassy Surge
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Power Whip
    - Leech Seed
    - Stealth Rock
    - Thunder Wave

    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Roost
    - Defog
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Flamethrower

    Hoopa-Unbound @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Knock Off
    - Fire Punch
    - Drain Punch
    - Psychic

    Tapu Bulu @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Horn Leech
    - Bulk Up
    - Taunt
    - Stone Edge

    Honchkrow @ Life Orb
    Ability: Innards Out
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Roost
    - Superpower
  8. Semako

    Semako

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2017
    Messages:
    21
    I also have a Hoopa-U in my team, but as a Quick Feet boosted Special Sweeper. What do you think about that Hoopa variant?

    Hoopa-Unbound @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Quick Feet
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Nasty Plot
    - Hyperspace Hole
    - Dark Pulse
    - Thunderbolt / Focus Miss

    My AAA favourite is this Kommo-o set, which abuses the Belly Drum/Sitrus Berry/Unburden combo to get +6 attack and +2 speed after just one setup move to sweep the opposing team away if they lack a scarfed/priority check.

    Kommo-o @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Unburden
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Belly Drum
    - Earthquake
    - Brick Break
  9. The Ruins of Alpha

    The Ruins of Alpha Drampa's Grandpa

    Joined:
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    183
    Those look like pretty good sets in general, a couple housekeeping tips.

    For Hoopa-U I don't think Hyperspace Hole actually hits much... I'd personally forget about dual stab unless you have something you need to hit with it direly.

    Sky Uppercut > Brick Break. Brick Break is just pathetically weak.

    On both speed EVs might be improvable, but I'm not sure. Kommo-o in particular doesn't need 252+ speed when it's going to be at +2... Just outspeed base +1 110s (or 111 or 112 or whatever you want to creep to) or Garchomp at +2. This lets you chuck some EVs into bulk, which helps Kommo-o set up more easily.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017 at 12:34 AM
  10. eat pray balk

    eat pray balk

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    Sep 23, 2014
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    if you're at +6, brick break's lower power is far less relevant than uppercut's lower accuracy
    pretty much any stat spread that would be more vulnerable to sky uppercut is some combination of unlikely, impractial, and irrelevant, especially when dragon claw and eq are on the table
  11. simsims2800

    simsims2800

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    997
    So everyone knows how Mega Launcher Hydreigon is a seriously powerful threat, right? Everyone also knows that Hydreigon can't touch PH Tapu Fini for its life.

    Or can it?

    Door #1 (open)
    Tapu Finished (Hydreigon) holding Choice Specs
    Ability: Galvanize
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    - Hyper Voice
    - filler (U-turn or coverage)

    252 SpA Choice Specs Galvanize Hydreigon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Fini: 272-322 (79 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    10/10 best lure. Galvanize Hyper Voice OHKOs standard Fini with just a bit of prior damage (AKA any entry hazard ever). Draco is to nuke shit, but Dragon Pulse is to keep the illusion of Mega Launcher Hydreigon. Dark Pulse is STAB. Last slot can be Fire Blast, Earth Power, U-turn, Focus Miss, Flash Cannon, basically any coverage you want.

    Door #2 (open)
    INFINITE POWER (Hydreigon) holding Choice Specs
    Ability: Technician / Merciless
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Shock Wave / Charge Beam
    - Dragon Breath / Draco Meteor
    - Dark Pulse
    - Filler (U-turn or coverage)

    252 SpA Choice Specs Technician Hydreigon Shock Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Fini: 228-270 (66.2 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
    252 SpA Choice Specs Technician Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Fini: 190-224 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

    Shock Wave for consistent damage, Charge Beam if you want to snowball. Coverage options include Earth Power, Fire Blast, Focus Miss, and every Hidden Power ever. Dragon Breath can paralyze unsuspecting targets, but Draco's there for the BIG DOMMAGE. Dark Pulse for STAB, or HP Dark if you want more damage. Merciless has the same damage boost, but has the luxury of always 2HKOing no matter how many boosts Tapu Fini has, although it forces you to run a rather weak move in Shock Wave.

    Door #3 (open)
    ultimate (Hydreigon) holding Choice Band
    Ability: Strong Jaw / Tough Claws
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Thunder Fang
    - Crunch
    - Fire Fang
    - Ice Fang / Outrage / U-turn / Superpower / Earthquake / Iron Tail

    252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Hydreigon Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 242-286 (70.3 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
    252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Hydreigon Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Fini: 214-252 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

    Tapu Fini can no longer switch in safely. Neither can most special walls. Even Fairies fall to Iron Tail:

    252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 272-322 (72.7 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Bulu: 240-284 (69.7 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Regenvest Magearna? Not a problem.
    252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Hydreigon Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Magearna: 172-204 (47.2 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Hydreigon Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Magearna: 196-232 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Choice Band Hydreigon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Magearna: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    FF Skarm? Non-issue.
    252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Hydreigon Thunder Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 156-184 (46.7 - 55%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    (For Tough Claws it's a bit more of an issue; Thunder Fang fails to 2HKO 91% of the time.)

    Physical Hydreigon is a powerhouse.

    PS: If you want to be REALLY mean to Fini, you can run this:
    252 Atk Choice Band Galvanize Hydreigon Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 226-266 (65.6 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017 at 11:11 AM
    Laxpras, Hilomilo and darksylvion like this.
  12. Laxpras

    Laxpras You don't want zero problems big fella

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    Innards out is now banned from AAA after a unanimous council vote.
    It essentially boiled down to Innards out allowing teams to take out the largest threat fairly easily and with little counterplay. This helps stall to an extent that we consider it both broken and uncompetitive

    Highlights from the conversation:

    "Every impact innards out has is negative, promotes poor/reckless teambuilding and the 50/50 luckfest that is battling it the opposite of competitive. Innards out is a huge F*** you to offence and has no right to exist in a competitive metagame." - motherlove

    "Remember when people wanted to get rid of MGar in Ubers because it can get rid of threats? Well the same thing applies here, except you can even have multiple attempts to do it." - jordn

    "you get rid of literally whatever you want, at 0 cost, and make the score 5-5 in your favor with a vital part of your opponent's team eliminated and a small contributor to your team eliminated. It's like eliminating Japan and Germany from WWI. Obviously, both sides lost a country, but now it's way more imbalanced." - aesf

  13. Heavyweapons Mann

    Heavyweapons Mann

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    Laxpras Can you update the banned Pokemon to include Pheromosa and was there any posts from the community about Innards Out?
  14. Laxpras

    Laxpras You don't want zero problems big fella

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    You can search the thread for innards out yourself using smogon's search this thread function. You will find several posts at least mentioning at, but only a couple discussing its place in the meta. Most complaints came from within the council and from private discussions with past prominent figures of AAA.
  15. david0895

    david0895

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    Jun 3, 2015
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    Ban history doesn't include Pheromosa ban.
    Can someone update it?
  16. Laxpras

    Laxpras You don't want zero problems big fella

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    IIRC, Pheromosa was never allowed in the OM as it was banned in the beta phase of AAA, so having it in ban history doesn't make sense. No matter, it's listed under bans. I'd like to move on from the topic.

    So, with Innards Out and Fluffy now gone from the meta, how is the current status of stall? I'd welcome both theoretical and practical (example) discussion about it. Is there something else that makes it overly powerful for a balanced meta? What about Poison Heal?
  17. aesf

    aesf outskilled

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