Anti-Lead Discussion: Viable or Unreliable?

[Flashstorm1]

After lurking here on the Stark Mountain forum for quite a while, I noticed that were a lack of threads that help promote long-time discussion on the board. As such, I hope to promote some discussion with this thread.

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I'm sure all of us have encountered the strange Anti-lead that hardly anyone uses, such as Sharpedo. However, often times we wonder if such Pokémon can actually prove to be effective. From my own experience, Anti-leads tend to work against only one kind of Pokémon, and can generally be beaten by others. As such, Anti-leads tend to get outclassed by strictly reliable leads, such as Azelf, in the purpose of setting up Stealth Rock, or Swampert, which is designed to fare well against most type of leads. In this thread, I hope to investigate whether Anti-leads are still worth using in today's metagame, and how Anti-leads can be tailored to beat the most common leads in today's metagame.

First, I think it is appropriate that a definite term for an Anti-lead to be constructed. Without having a community accepted definition, it will be impossible to discuss this topic with everyone providing their own intepretation of the term.

Here is a definition that I think is a good starting place to begin with:

An Anti-lead is a Pokémon that is uncommonly seen in the lead position, and is tailored to take down other common leads. An Anti-lead should generally be able to stop opposing leads from gaining the momentum in a match, such as through laying down Stealth Rock, etc...

Changes:

• Does not necessarily need to rely on surprise factor

However, there are a few problems with this definition, such as...

• How many leads should an Anti-lead be able to beat
• What tactic must be used to take down other leads

First, I think we should investigate some of the Anti-leads that are currently on-site, and see how they handle other common leads, and see how we can go about it there.

For the purposes of this thread, I will be using the "LeadApe" set as an example.

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spa / 192 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Fake Out
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat / Encore
​

​

From this set, we can tell that Infernape manages to complete each of the following objectives against other leads:

• Beat the common suicide leads, Azelf and Aerodactyl, one-on-one
• It will always be guaranteed to set up Stealth Rock, or if the opponent decides to attack, prevent it
• Its fantastic dual-STAB allows it to hit other common leads for super effective

However, there are other Anti-Leads out there that fill specific roles. For example, Roserade works on shutting down slower leads with Sleep Powder, but will nearly always fail against faster leads, particularly those with Taunt. On the other hand, Gliscor specifically uses Taunt to prevent other leads from setting up Stealth Rock. So, I think from the information gathered here, we should definitely attempt to answer the question: Do we want an Anti-lead to prevent other leads from setting up Stealth Rock, or do we strictly want it to take down other common leads?

After determining all of the characteristics of an Anti-lead, we can attempt to answer the main question in this thread: Are Anti-leads ultimately viable over standard leads, or should standard leads be used for their reliability?

Apart from using this thread to define what makes an Anti-lead an Anti-lead, I'd also like for others to contribute any Anti-leads they may have devised themselves. I plan on making a list of viable strategies to use for an Anti-lead after a few responses to this thread.

For those who managed to read through this thread, I highly appreciate it. This is my first time trying to start a discussion on Stark Mountain, so I hope everything goes well!
​

 

[Random Pizzaman]

What I've always thought of as being an anti-lead has always been a Pokemon that is designed to beat the standard leads, and since most of the standard leads use Stealth Rock, it usually ends up doing both (this is to address "Anti-lead to prevent other leads from setting up Stealth Rock, or do we strictly want it to take down other common leads?").

And I'm not so sure how much I agree with this part:

and is tailored to rely on surprise factor to take down other common leads.

You provided the example of Infernape, which does both the Anti-lead job of beating other leads and the Standard lead job of setting up rocks, but Infernape is one of the most common leads. Does that not make it an Anti-Lead though?

And lastly, this is my favorite Anti-Lead:

@ Life Orb
Timid, 252SpA/252Spe
~Hydro Pump/Surf
~Grass Knot
~Thunderbolt/ Ice Beam
~Rapid Spin

It can both usually eliminate the common leads, and while it doesn't "stop" the rocks from going up, it just gets rid of them while Spinning away the Rocks & the opponents last Hit Point.

 

[blasphemy1]

The only anti-leads I prefer are Machamp and Occa Torterra. In almost every other situation, a simple Swampert, Metagross, Jirachi, or Azelf lead is superior.

 

[Anachronism]

An anti-lead is generally defined as a lead that doesn't use entry hazards AND is in the lead position only to beat other leads.

Personally, I think that if it doesn't put up rocks/weather/some other hazard, don't bother using it. Even anti-leads have bad matchups, so at least you will get rocks up if you use a real lead. This why the top 10 or so leads all have stealth rock. It is simply the best way to start the game. I would rather give my opponent a 5-0 lead if it means i have rocks up and they don't because rocks can easily do 200% in a game, and can often turn 2hkos into 1hkos etc. There is no real reason to NOT use stealth rock.

Using the term "anti-lead" just legitamizes the concept of using inferior stealth-rock-less leads. a lead is already designed to beat at least some other leads, or else no one would use it.

So to answer your question, they are reliable, but at doing what? You just start the game up one but with no rocks up. Doing that almost all the time still doesn't make it worthwhile. Pretty much no lead can both kill the opponent and prevent rocks.

However, if you have another way to get rocks up immediately after beating their lead with another pokemon, then i guess there is nothing wrong with it. but why wouldn't you just use that pokemon as your lead?

Fake Out is probably the move i would take off for encore on that infernape set ( i have used this set before). Close combat is way too useful. I suppose i don't use it that often, but it is great to have the ability to sweep the last few members of stall if you manage to keep infernape until later ( I usually only switch out on hippowdon though).

 

[Amphetamines]

Personally, I think that if it doesn't put up rocks/weather/some other hazard, don't bother using it. Even anti-leads have bad matchups, so at least you will get rocks up if you use a real lead. This why the top 10 or so leads all have stealth rock. It is simply the best way to start the game. I would rather give my opponent a 5-0 lead if it means i have rocks up and they don't because rocks can easily do 200% in a game, and can often turn 2hkos into 1hkos etc. There is no real reason to NOT use stealth rock.

I have to disagree, there are a lot of Anti-leads that are very viable to the metagame. There are a lot of things outside of hazards that leads can put up, however Stealth Rock / Sandstorm / etc are usually just standard examples of moving momentum your way in the beginning of the match. You can just use something (like Swampert) to use Stealth Rock somewhat earlier in the match, and the game will barely be affected.

This is the lead I really love:

Machamp @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 ATK / 96 SDEF
Adamant Nature
~ Sub
~ Dynamic Punch
~ Stone Edge / Payback
~ Encore

This does an excellent role that other Pokemon can not do. Machamp easily encores Stealth Rock, while giving free time to use Substitute or Dynamic Punch. Stone Edge is easily for salamence and gyarados whom try to switch into Dynamic Punch for free set-up, then are hampered with confusion and and risk a 100% accurate Stone Edge (always will OHKO, even with Intimidate). Payback can be for Azelf, as if you encore Stealth Rock > you can Payback twice, or if you Encore Psychic you can easily use something like Tyranitar or Scizor to either Pursuit or set up. Bulky Substitutes are what things like Machamp love, as most of the time it will be buying time to use Substitute more with confusion, and predicting to use Substitute again as most of the time it will be down in only two hits.

Of course, against standard leads (like Aero and Swampert) Dyanmic Punch can be extremely handy, as Aero will usually waste it's time using taunt or vise versa, which can either limit it using Stealth Rock or Taunt. Swampert as bulky as it sounds, really hates confusion with its no way of recovery other than wish, and takes 30% or so every hit.

However, Machamp barely has a downside, as it can risk being OHKO'd by Meteor Mash and cannot OHKO Azelf with Payback (Focus Sash).

In my opinion, if an Anti-Lead is unreliable or reliable, it really depends on the Pokemon used. If you're going to use a very frail lead, you should have a go-to plan to execute if you are unlucky and match with something your Anti-lead cannot handle.

 

[kd24]

I don't like Anti-Leads at all, and that is because they are much too centralized and you would probably be much better off using a well rounded lead. I'll take an example of Specs Salamence lead vs Taunt Gliscor lead.

A Choice Specs Salamence is always a great choice to add to the team, and it doesn't really lose much in the lead slot. Fire Blast will 2hko/ohko Metagross depending on its item, and if it hopes to ko you, it will probably need to Explode right away. Dragon Pulse can hit Azelf hard once, and then you can just switch to a Ghost-type or a Steel-type to absorb Explosion. Infernape won't be doing jack when its Intimidated and resisted. Jirachi without Ice Punch has to worry as 1 Fire Blast is really going to hurt. Bronzong is going to get Fire Blasted to hell, maybe for a ohko. Aerodactyl will taunt/sr as you Dragon Pulse, and you can just keep doing it. Heatran is going to die to Hydro Pump. Gliscor is going to lose to Draco Meteor.

I know it sounds like I am rambling here but I am just trying to show some common leads and how Choice Specs Salamence is still a fine lead. And this goes for any Pokemon, DD Gyarados is a great lead, it can handle itself pretty well against all of the common leads. Metagross (not an anti-lead) also handles himself well. Hell even Swampert. These guys are all Pokemon who still have function even past the lead slot. Gyarados and Mence can just switch to Intimidate things or just give out big power hits. Swampert can handle Fire-types or stuff like Tyranitar. Metagross can deal with anything bulky.

See where I am getting at? Not anti-leads, just "Pokemon" who are helpful all throughout the game.

Now onto Gliscor, this is an Anti-Lead designed to Taunt Bronzong or Roserade. But the problem is, this guy loses to any well rounded Pokemon like Salamence, Azelf, Gyarados, Swampert, etc. He is relying on just Taunting early but then loses his function until later. An even better example is something like Infernape. Infernape has excellent type coverage and is a fierce Mixed Sweeper. Sure, he can maybe beat Aerodactyl and Azelf, but he loses to everything else like Gyarados, Salamence, Swampert, Occa Metagross, etc. Why not just use something like Infernape@ Life Orb - Fire Blast/Grass Knot/Hidden Power Ice/Close Combat and just have something like Blissey or Tyranitar to handle the other things.

This is getting confusing for even me, I will edit my post to make more sense tommorow but I am basically saying "Why use an Anti-Lead who will only be useful at the beginning of the game when you can just use a more dangerous version of that Pokemon and switch around if you need to?".

 

[SuperGengar]

For the purposes of this thread, I will be using the "LeadApe" set as an example.

Infernape @ Focus Sash​

Trait: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk / 252 Spa / 192 Spe
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Fake Out
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Close Combat / Encore
From this set, we can tell that Infernape manages to complete each of the following objectives against other leads:

• Beat the common suicide leads, Azelf and Aerodactyl, one-on-one
• It will always be guaranteed to set up Stealth Rock, or if the opponent decides to attack, prevent it
• Its fantastic dual-STAB allows it to hit other common leads for super effective.

I use the same lead as you with same moves and EV spread and it works great for me with other leads except Metagross @ Occa Berry.

 

[Riverside]

"Anti-leads" = Proof that Stealth rock it's broken, or at least overcentralizes the metagame.

Jolteon? anyone remember this guy?

Anyway, I use suicide Camerupt as lead, not to prevent rocks from getting set (it's impossible to have a 100% sucess of not getting rocks floating in your field) but for doing a lot damage to common leads.

 

[Flashstorm1]

Personally, I think that if it doesn't put up rocks/weather/some other hazard, don't bother using it. Even anti-leads have bad matchups, so at least you will get rocks up if you use a real lead. This why the top 10 or so leads all have stealth rock. It is simply the best way to start the game. I would rather give my opponent a 5-0 lead if it means i have rocks up and they don't because rocks can easily do 200% in a game, and can often turn 2hkos into 1hkos etc. There is no real reason to NOT use stealth rock.

Using the term "anti-lead" just legitamizes the concept of using inferior stealth-rock-less leads. a lead is already designed to beat at least some other leads, or else no one would use it.

Although I do see the logic behind your argument, I don't think it's a particularly bad thing preventing your opponent from setting up Stealth Rock, especially if your lead is dedicated to completing another objective. If we take a look at the Roserade I mentioned in the OP, not only does it manage to prevent Stealth Rock every now and then, but it is also an effective lead in laying down Toxic Spikes.

Now, as for the issue of preventing Stealth Rock, I really think you underestimate the importance of being able to do such a task. If we take a look at some of the top used Pokémon, we find that most are quickly worn down by Stealth Rock. Salamence and Gyarados, in particular, would have a much easier time switching in and setting up were it not for Stealth Rock. Even Scizor, although it doesn't have a weakness to SR, would be able to switch in a few more times were it not for Stealth Rock.

An even better example is something like Infernape. Infernape has excellent type coverage and is a fierce Mixed Sweeper. Sure, he can maybe beat Aerodactyl and Azelf, but he loses to everything else like Gyarados, Salamence, Swampert, Occa Metagross, etc. Why not just use something like Infernape@ Life Orb - Fire Blast/Grass Knot/Hidden Power Ice/Close Combat and just have something like Blissey or Tyranitar to handle the other things.

Although I did read the rest of your post, I wanted to argue a bit on this one particular point of your game. Now, you state that Infernape loses to set up sweepers and Metagross leads. However, I think you are missing the point of Infernape's viability here. In the case of Swampert and Metagross, Infernape manages to get Stealth Rock set up against 100% of the time, and if Metagross focuses on attacking you, then you successfully managed to prevent your opponent from setting up the move, and in return, you can go to another Pokémon can force it out. I do realize I'm sounding a bit subjective here, but even in the more unlikely scenario, Infernape can 2HKO Metagross with Fire Blast if it decides to set up Stealth Rock on the first turn. In Salamence and Gyarados's case, it's likely they'd try to set up after they switch in on the turn Infernape sets up Stealth Rock. However, the main issue here is that both will be taking at least one Blaze-boosted Fire Blast, or two Fire Blasts depending on when they switch in, which can really impair their survivability.

And while I'm at it, I don't really see how Choice Specs Salamence beats most of the leads you mentioned. Aerodactyl can set up Steath Rock and then hit you with a STAB Rock Slide or Stone Edge. Azelf is a bit situational, particularly if they use Psychic instead of Explosion, but I'm sure Salamence will win, as long as you pair it with a Ghost-type, like you mentioned. Metagross, from my experience, beats most Salamence with a combination of Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch, and since Salamence can't KO through the Occa Berry, I don't think Mence wins here. Heatran will loses anyways, so no point arguing.

"Anti-leads" = Proof that Stealth rock it's broken, or at least overcentralizes the metagame.

I think we've already agreed here that an anti-lead's objective isn't necessarily to prevent Stealth Rock, although that is one of the higher ones, but rather, to take out other common leads by hitting it with a super effective attack, crippling it through Trick or status, etc.

 

[blasphemy1]

KD24: I have to disagree. Two good examples of anti-leads that aren't centralized are Lum Berry Machamp and Occa Berry Torterra. The latter will either take the opposing lead down to 1 HP(Azelf, Aerodactyl), set up rocks(Bronzong), or kill the other lead(Metagross, Infernape, Heatran, etc). Machamp is guaranteed a Sub if they have Tyranitar or Bronzong, and will break Azelf/Aerodactyl Sash. These are two, effective, general, anti-leads.

 

[MegaKick]

Mamoswine is very good. I personally run focus sash with endeavor, although missing out on the garunteed OHKO on heatran and not being able to KO meta with EQ+ice shard is a bummer. However, I usually just go straight for stealth rock, because I have something that can handle many leads:

Gyrados @ Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly
252att,252spe,4hp

Waterfall
Dragon Dance
Earthquake
Stone Edge

This sets up on a lot of common leads. Look:

Metagross: If they choose to use both meteor mash and earthquake over explosion, free setup. If they choose to meteor mash or bullet punch mamo as I switch to gyrados turn one, then I DDance as they use stealth rock, and have a chance to KO with earthquake before the explode anyway.

Azelf: Can destroy with explosion and stop DDance with taint. Trouble.

Swampert: If it chooses three attacks or protect over roar (common) it's set up fodder, as it's only decent attack agains tgyra, ice beam, won't touch his base 100 sp.def.

Infernape: Setup fodder. Endeavor is a pain.

Heatran: Setup fodder.


So Gyrados can setup on many common leads.

 

[Stagnant]

Wouldn't the ideal Anti-Lead be Scarf Breloom, Roserade, etc... anything that has a relatively high chance of sleeping. Lum berry leads aren't common and in fact I've only seen one in my times Standard laddering.

Sleeping and essentially forcing a switch... wouldn't that be "Anti-Lead"?

 

[Riverside]

Sleeping it's ok, but it will make Breloom kind of a waste, Focus punch + Subs are very destructive but only using 1 attack makes Breloom kinda easy to wall.

Roserade it's similar but relies in luck because of sleep powder

In other words they do their job, but that's pretty what they do. (Similar to NUs or UUs countering OUs: That's not enough to make them OU)

Copy paste from a post I was writting before reading what Exclamation post:

KD24: I have to disagree. Two good examples of anti-leads that aren't centralized are Lum Berry Machamp and Occa Berry Torterra. The latter will either take the opposing lead down to 1 HP(Azelf, Aerodactyl), set up rocks(Bronzong), or kill the other lead(Metagross, Infernape, Heatran, etc). Machamp is guaranteed a Sub if they have Tyranitar or Bronzong, and will break Azelf/Aerodactyl Sash. These are two, effective, general, anti-leads.

Aero and Azelf are suicide leads, they don't care about getting 1 HP, in fact, isn't hard. they work it's to put rocks at the begin of the game to prevent you to abuse threats weak to SR.

TWO things that one anti-lead should do: (only two)

-Be able to break sashes and, at the same time, prevent the foe to use SRs(Azelf, Aero)
*How: Fake out and faster than aero taunt are the only one solution.

The fastest pokemon with Fake out it's weavile, then Persian and Ambipom

Weavile may outrun Azelf and kill with pursuit/night slash or taunt him (beware of Flametrower) but can't outrun Aero so he will get its rock unless you use Ice shard

Fake out+Ice shard with a 252 adamant weavile vs 4 hp 0 defense arodactyl will almost always KO him, but it's not guaranted: If weavile fails (aero survives with 2% or 3%) weavile has failed and isn't as fast as it should be.

Plus, Adamant wavile means you won't outrun Azelf. Weavile fails again.

Conclusion until now: Impossible to weavile.

The fastest non-uber pokemon that learns Taunt it's electrode, who will outrun dactyl for sure and can break the sash from azelf and Aero, it's the most reliable now.

Vs Aero:

Scenario A: This it's what will happen against good players

Turn 1:
X send out Ballz (electrode)
Y send out Jew (Aero)

Ballz uses Taunt
Jew uses EQ
Ballz hang on using it's Focus sash

Turn 2:

Ballz uses T-bolt
Jew hang on using it's focus sash
Jew uses constrict
Ballz fainted

Scenario B: Against random players

Turn 1:
X send out Ballz (electrode)
Y send out Jew (Aero)

Ballz uses Taunt
Jew can't use stealth rock because of Taunt

Turn 2:
Ballz uses T-bolt
Jew hang on using it's focus sash
Jew uses EQ
Ballz hang on using it's focus sash

Turn 3:
Ballz uses Sonicboom
Jew fainted

There's another scenario, it's scenario B but Y switch aero when taunted.

Vs azelf it's almost the same, 2HKO but without the dancer of EQ.

The 2nd thing any anti-lead should do

-Being able to face Hippowdon
*How: Being anything BUT ELECTRODE.

Conclusion: There's no such thing as anti-lead.

I did my Wavile vs Aero calculations with: http://libelldra.com/competitive/damage/

 

[Flashstorm1]

I forgot to mention this in the OP, but there was one Pokémon in particular I wanted to discuss.

This Pokémon is Jirachi. Now I'm sure most of us are familiar with the Anti-lead set,...

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
- U-turn

...however, I've never really managed to find the effectiveness of the set. I've seen in plenty of times on the ladder, but not once have I actually been impressed by it. My point here is, can we really classify it as an anti-lead if it loses to a majority of them? Think about it: Metagross can do up to 80% with Earthquake, while Jirachi either sets up Stealth Rock, in turn being forced to switch out, uses U-turn, where you might manage to set up Stealth Rock yourself (or use EQ on a Gyarados switch-in), or Trick, which is pretty damn useless in my opinion. Heatran fears absolutely nothing from this set, and Swampert can access to Protect to scout for Trick. In turn, the only thing this set really beats is Azelf, Aerodactyl, and Mamoswine.

My question here is: After what we've discussed of other anti-leads, it is even viable to fit this set under that same definition? Discuss.

 

[franky]

This was when Machamp was more popular hence the name "Anti-lead", so basically, it's an anti-lead for an anti-lead. It's an infinite loop, there will be something that counters another anti-lead.

 

[MegaKick]

I forgot to mention this in the OP, but there was one Pokémon in particular I wanted to discuss.

This Pokémon is Jirachi. Now I'm sure most of us are familiar with the Anti-lead set,...

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Trick
- U-turn

...however, I've never really managed to find the effectiveness of the set. I've seen in plenty of times on the ladder, but not once have I actually been impressed by it. My point here is, can we really classify it as an anti-lead if it loses to a majority of them? Think about it: Metagross can do up to 80% with Earthquake, while Jirachi either sets up Stealth Rock, in turn being forced to switch out, uses U-turn, where you might manage to set up Stealth Rock yourself (or use EQ on a Gyarados switch-in), or Trick, which is pretty damn useless in my opinion. Heatran fears absolutely nothing from this set, and Swampert can access to Protect to scout for Trick. In turn, the only thing this set really beats is Azelf, Aerodactyl, and Mamoswine.

My question here is: After what we've discussed of other anti-leads, it is even viable to fit this set under that same definition? Discuss.

Scarf Magnezone owns this so hard if it tricks (or stealth rock lol) first turn. Iron Head will also work but I've had jirachi's kill my magnezone with iron head flinchhax (about 10% per hit) so many times. ?Mostly without getting a hit in!

 

[Pollux-Castor]

I used Machamp as an Anti-lead for a long time on Shoddy with the standard set and he was pathetic. I did have other Pokemon that worked around him but he still left me off to a bad start most of the time.

An anti-lead that I tested on Shoddy to great success was:

Donphan @Focus Sash
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Stealth Rock
-Rapid Spin
Adamant
252atk, enough speed to out speed minimum Machamp, rest in defense.

He often took out 2 Pokemon while setting up Stealth Rock and preventing it. The sash worries about special attacks which often Ohko him with more health anyway. With Max attack Ice Shard 2hko's Salamence and Ninjask before he can baton pass.

All it takes is a little creativity and Anti-leads can work well. Using a Standard set that the foe already knows is pretty stupid.

 

[Zach]

Trick Scarf Jirachi makes an excellent anti-lead, because it has a plan for every type of lead. Common suicide leads are (Azelf, Aerodactyl ie) are 2HKO'd by Iron Head (due to Focus Sash), and bulky leads (Swampert, Hippowdon) are Tricked a Scarf, and Jirachi then sets up Stealth Rock as they switch out. There are some leads that don't fall to this strategy, of course (most notably Heatran).

 

[Riverside]

@Donphan: I think that fits more as a lead than anti lead.

Seems fine, but can't do much vs Aero other than breaking it's sash, it's similar to Aero vs Electrode, as if he taunt and you SR you lost one turn, if he SR, you SR also and then he switch to a ghost both of you got SRs, similar to other lead vs lead scearios.

 

[blasphemy1]

Riverside, your logic is flawed. If I have a spinner waiting in the wings, or don't care about Stealth Rock, then an anti-lead doesn't necessitate the prevention of stealth rock getting set up. All I need to do is take out other common leads, then come in to get rid of their move, all just for a single pokemon.

 

[Riverside]

Spinners are very easy to predict. That's why it's important to keep your side clean since the begining (if you care about SRs of course), because spinners aren't reliable at all.

If you dont care about that (I guess having at least 4 pokemon that resist SR and 2 neutral) the amount of pokemon your team could use it's reduced drastically, all just for a single move.

 

[wavedash]

"An Anti-lead is a Pokémon that is uncommonly seen in the lead position, and is tailored to take down other common leads. An Anti-lead should generally be able to stop opposing leads from gaining the momentum in a match, such as through laying down Stealth Rock, etc..."

Jirachi does not fit the description of an anti-lead. Besides, lots of stuff will happily take a Choice Scarf. And maybe give Jirachi a Choice Scarf in return.

Hm. Time to make a real anti-lead Jirachi, something to take advantage of my opponent suspecting a Trick Scarfer....

 

[Mrobinson587]

I like to play around and come up with odd anti leads.

Sharpedo is one that I've messed around with

Sharpedo (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) or Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk) for Roserede and speed ties with Drapion
- Aqua Jet
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Taunt

Taunt slower SR's and then easily switch to a bulky pokemon to take the attack. Despite people saying that this lead was terrible I got to 41 on the UU ladder using it, so it wasn't that bad. A powerful aqua jet a fast taunt and kamikaze rough skin kills are useful. In OU, scizor takes quite a bit of damage between aqua jet and rough skin trying to revenge you.

------I came up with this "Anti-Bulky Lead" set that has been very effective in OU. This one is most deserving of Anti-lead out of all of the 3

Camerupt (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Eruption
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power

You outspeed almost all Metagross leads (and everything slower obviously with 179 speed) and OHKO with Earth Power. Heatran is KO'd through its Shuca Berry

Swampert is outspeed and OHKOd by HP grass

Eruption has a very high chance strong chance of OHKOing Hippowdon and even some Heatproof or Occa berry Bronzong

The real beauty of the set is Lava Plume which you always attack Jirachi and Azelf with. The 30% burn rate will sometimes beat Azelf despite its focus sash and also helps sometimes if Gyarados or Salamence decide to switch in.

Taunters and trickers will almost always do so expecting stealth rock.

It's not perfect and having something that can handle Salamence Starmie Gyarados and Aerodactyl is good. It also loses to Breloom and Smeargle. A sleep talker like suicune and Porygon2 are great team mates.

Explosion or Stealth Rock can be used over Eruption but the OHKO on Hippowdon is too sweet to pass up for me

-------The 3rd and final "Anti-Lead" I use can be tailord to what you want it to do as it is the jack of all trades; Clefable

Clefable (F) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Encore
- Trick/Knock off
- Stealth Rock/Wish
- Counter/Protect

With max defenses at full health it can survive just about any physical move with full health including most Close Combats and Counter for the KO. It works later in the match as great supporter. Encore and Wish has great synegry if you have another Stealth Rock user.

Optimally heres how the match starts Encore their faster Stealth Rock or set up your own and then encore their slow SR. Trick your flame orb onto the switch in usually a physical attacker hopefully getting leftovers. Then counter or encore again and get a free switch.

I prefer the first options but I've used the secondary moves depending on my team and what is popular. Knock off is helpful with taunters as Taunt shuts this set down. It will also fall to faster sleepers without protect.
Change your nature to something not -attack if using Knock Off as well

 

[franky]

I've been using Moltres as an anti-lead and its by far my favorite, it's easy to use and it doesn't require too much prediction.

 

[d2m]

I know in Ubers, anti-leads can perform remarkably well. There's really nothing that'll prevent Deoxys-e from setting up at least one hazard, but I ran a Honchkrow anti-lead that took out all other leads I encountered pretty easily, then screwed up their switch ins. Superpower OHKO's Darkrai, 2HKOs Dialga, Night slash OHKOs non-sashed Deoxys (I saw one) 2-3HKOs Giratina (depending on set and form), Sucker Punch OHKOs Mewtwo, and Confuse Ray wrecks the chance for Rayquaza or someone else to reliably set up on him.

The anti-lead is best used for Hyper-offensive teams, which I have tended towards running. They get momentum started by taking out the opposing lead, and it's quite irrelevant whether or not they get SR up. I know on one of my teams I ran an Infernape anti-lead with Grass Knot over Stealth Rock and Overheat over Fire Blast. Overheat OHKOs non-Occa Metagrosses (read none) and 2HKOs the rest. Grass Knot 2HKOs Hippo and Swampert, so if they lay down rocks they die. If you run an Infernape lead, you damn well better have a Gyarados counter, though.

On the Suspect ladder I ran a Scarfrachi lead with Ice Punch over Stealth Rock and Fire Punch over U-Turn. It turned out to be a great Revenge killer as well as anti lead. Anti-leads aren't as disposable as suicide leads, and should be able to perform some function outside of killing the lead.

In closing: Anti-leads are only reccomended if you're running a hyper-offensive team, one that disregards Stealth Rock (Anti-leads need coverage or Taunt more than they need entry hazards) and focuses on creating sweeping situations and wallbreaking.