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Pokémon Araquanid
- Thread starter Jaroda
- Start date
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I've been playing around on showdown on UU and OU Pokebank trolling the lower ladders with a spider team just to test out the Power Split set. (Literally just to do that, my rating has obviously gone no where because of it lol)
That said - because of this, I can safely say I don't believe Araquanid is the best candidate for the Power Split set.
Dewpider actually pulls it off INCREDIBLY well - much moreso than Araquanid. Eviolite turns its rather lackluster defenses into something rather decent, and the abysmal attack stats make it cripple its opponents while gaining more from them in return.
For example: 252 HP/252 Def Dewpider stats at 50 w/ Eviolite are: 145 HP, 171 Def, 138 Sp.Def
Whereas a 252 HP/252 Def Araquanid stats at 50 are: 175 HP, 158 Def, 152 Sp.Def
So, Araquanid is a little more specially bulky and has more HP, but Dewpider is more physically bulky and cripples the opposing pokemon -MUCH- more with Power Split (as Araquanid has 70/50 Offenses to Dewpiders 40/40). Personally, I've been enjoying using Dewpider more.
So although Power Split is indeed a viable option for Araquanid, I don't think I'd run it over a Choice Band/etc. set, as I -personally- feel Dewpider would be the better option.
People also like to think Dewpider is something to set up on, and will attempt to. This lets you get off amazing Power Split plays, as well as get your Aqua Rings off, if you run it. (fun fact: Dewpider can still almost OHKO things like Lycanroc due to Water Bubble)
Knock Off has become much less common in this meta due to the influx of fairy types, and as such, Eviolite has become a much more viable item. I'm seeing many sets opt for Sucker Punch or other moves over Knock Off this gen, due to the addition of Z-Crystals, the new 50% berries, etc.
That said - because of this, I can safely say I don't believe Araquanid is the best candidate for the Power Split set.
Dewpider actually pulls it off INCREDIBLY well - much moreso than Araquanid. Eviolite turns its rather lackluster defenses into something rather decent, and the abysmal attack stats make it cripple its opponents while gaining more from them in return.
For example: 252 HP/252 Def Dewpider stats at 50 w/ Eviolite are: 145 HP, 171 Def, 138 Sp.Def
Whereas a 252 HP/252 Def Araquanid stats at 50 are: 175 HP, 158 Def, 152 Sp.Def
So, Araquanid is a little more specially bulky and has more HP, but Dewpider is more physically bulky and cripples the opposing pokemon -MUCH- more with Power Split (as Araquanid has 70/50 Offenses to Dewpiders 40/40). Personally, I've been enjoying using Dewpider more.
So although Power Split is indeed a viable option for Araquanid, I don't think I'd run it over a Choice Band/etc. set, as I -personally- feel Dewpider would be the better option.
People also like to think Dewpider is something to set up on, and will attempt to. This lets you get off amazing Power Split plays, as well as get your Aqua Rings off, if you run it. (fun fact: Dewpider can still almost OHKO things like Lycanroc due to Water Bubble)
Knock Off has become much less common in this meta due to the influx of fairy types, and as such, Eviolite has become a much more viable item. I'm seeing many sets opt for Sucker Punch or other moves over Knock Off this gen, due to the addition of Z-Crystals, the new 50% berries, etc.
Dewpider isn't more physically bulky, it has such a low HP stat that having a little extra Def doesn't matter. Its still slightly less bulky than araquanid in general with eviolite.
252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dewpider: 49-58 (33.7 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 52-63 (29.7 - 36%) -- 32.5% chance to 3HKO
You also nerf your bulk, switch ins, and damage by having to run eviolite over literally anything else. So there really isn't a good reason to pick dewpider in any possible way. Power split is stronger, but araquanid is already busted in its damage.
Just wanted to test this with power split in effect to see the results as well:
(No Powersplit, bold)
252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dewpider: 93-111 (33.2 - 39.6%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 100-118 (29.4 - 34.7%) -- 8.7% chance to 3HKO
(After powersplit, bold)
0 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dewpider: 60-72 (21.4 - 25.7%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Araquanid: 72-85 (21.1 - 25%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
It's really, really close after power split and Dewpider does take significantly less damage than araquanid but the lesser HP does stop it from being better on defense. In lower tiers where Araquanid isn't allowed, Dewpider will be a monster for sure though.
RestTalk + 2 Water moves seems like the best of Araquanid's unique advantages. I'm unsure what EVs/Nature are best though. Example set would be:
Araquanid @ Leftovers
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
- Liquidation
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Just set up shop once all their Water resists are dead and spam away. Whether or not to go Adamant 252 Atk or Impish/Calm with Def/SpD investment is the real question.
The set in the OP has Scald over Waterfall, but 50 SpA is too depressing for that to be great, especially without investment.
Perhaps, but the point is that Waterfall is useless outside of being selected during Sleep Talk. With Scald however, it effectively makes Araquanid far bulkier when you consider the Atk drop the opponent can suffer. This means you can Rest safer against more opponents. It also aids in battles of attrition by negating Leftovers healing, and with Liquidation's inherent defense drops you'll be more likely to come out on top overall. Hence its the utility that's being used, not the damage.
Metanazo
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Ah I see! So that solves the question for me. I was thinking about running a set with an Adamant nature anyway cause I coincidentally got 3 Adamant Dewpider. Anyways, I see why you favor Scald. Since Water Bubble is gonna hire the utility of water moves in general, Scald would be the better choice because of burn. Thanks guys. And I think I'll mess around with that Rest/Talk Set as well.
Araquanid @ Leftovers
Water Bubble
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/4 Atk
Scald
Rest
Sleep Talk
Leech Life/Waterfall
Combined with all these wonderful suggestions by players, I try to make my own tweak on Araquanid.
So Scald is for burn of course, and WB makes it Base 160 BP, if I am correct. Rest and Sleep Talk, by suggestions and my personal opinion, is the best for utility and to keep Araquanid running. Leech life is for further recovery beyond Rest. Waterfall is for more water. IGN will disapprove of such water cause this spider is chalk full of it.
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I've tried googling an answer for this, but I couldn't find one.
Does Power Split factor in the Nature, EVs, Abilities, and/or Boost while combining the attack stats, or just the base stats themselfs?
For an example: without taking into consideration his Nature or EVs, at Lv.100 and with 31 IVs, Garchomp's Attack is at 265. With a positive Nature and max EV investment his attack is now at 394. Does Power Split use the 265 or the 394? Also, if he was to use sword dance, would that factor in as well, or be ignored?
Does Power Split factor in the Nature, EVs, Abilities, and/or Boost while combining the attack stats, or just the base stats themselfs?
For an example: without taking into consideration his Nature or EVs, at Lv.100 and with 31 IVs, Garchomp's Attack is at 265. With a positive Nature and max EV investment his attack is now at 394. Does Power Split use the 265 or the 394? Also, if he was to use sword dance, would that factor in as well, or be ignored?
Power Split ignores any stat changes when calculating the average. It would use the 394 stat if it was a positive nature with max IVs and EVs. Also, 265 is with a neutral nature and a 0 IV.
I see your point but question the "utility" of a mono attacking Pokemon, Scald or not. The point of this set would likely just be to sweep/be unkillable once its counters have been removed and the game can be won with pure Water spam. Playing this is as a generic wall/bulky pivot doesn't really make sense even with Scald; there are better Pokemon (even outside of OU) for this. Araquanid's main niche is insanely powerful Water STAB + good bulk.
Fucking Sweet. I just got a Shiny one of these. I really like Hyper Offense so that Choice Band set looks tempting. Shame it's Quirky nature but I do have a powersaves. Go ahead, shit on me. I don't really bother using a Synchronizer. And besides, it's only a 50% chance that it works. I can't stand luck like that... But goddamn, is Araquanid an awesome Pokemon. i think we'll be seeing a lot of him soon, with the damn Water Bubble of his. I srsly expecting a nerf to that ability. It just seems 2 gud.
It's possible GF goes all Gale Wings on Water Bubble in Gen 8, but I wouldn't expect anything otherwise. Araquanid is a really bad Pokemon without Water Bubble, and is largely balanced around having 3 abilities.
Water Absorb is not good on Araquanid because Water Bubble is just incredibly superior. I'm definitely expecting a Gen 8 Nerf. I haven't ever played competitively but I do want to at some point. Mind you, double Water damage on top of STAB is actually kind of crazy... Also, Happy New Year from England :D
Happy New Year (from Florida I guess)!
Also I wouldn't really expect a nerf to the ability. Araquanid is balanced around the OPness of Water Bubble in the same way that Slaking is balanced around how awful Truant is. Even with how great Water Bubble is I still doubt Araquanid will be in OU anyways.
H
I can definitely see him making an impact in UU. What do you think about STABmons? I can see some sets coming out for him. Specially Defensive with Heal Order and Defend Order? Hyper Offense with Megahorn and Aqua Jet?
STABmons Araquanid is probably the nut, someone did cals earlier in this thread that showed Araquanid Aqua Jet is similar in strength to Crawdaunt's (but it has 68/92/132 defenses, instead of 65/85/55). Megahorn doesn't even really matter that much; Leech Life is probably more useful on such a bulky Pokemon, and honestly Araquanid shouldn't be using too many non-Water attacks anyways. My favorite theorymon set is easily the 2 Water attacks RestTalk set discussed above, which doesn't even run Bug STAB.
I haven't played enough (really, any) UU Beta to comment on whether or not Araquanid is good there yet. Maybe someone who has can fill us in?
I played a lot of UU and I didn't really see Araquanid much. Golisopod has made more of an impact with First Impression dealing with many sweepers and dangerous scarfers (Latias, Hydreigon, Weavile, Sharpedo, Alakazam, Serperior, Starmie - It's good even if it's not super effective or even not very effective, a not super effective First Impression is as strong as a neutral Aqua Jet; does about 20% to a Dragonite which can save you if it doesn't have E-Speed and Fly instead) its sky-high defense that enables it to check Mamoswine and good movepool with options such as Sucker Punch, Aqua Jet, Spikes and Poison Jab. Araquanid's Leech Life is simply too weak to constitute recovery (unlike Golisopod's Leech Life which is strong enough to break Keldeo's Sub) and while Liquidation is incredibly powerful, there are a myriad checks to water mons in the tier.
Although I only really played with one team i built and Araquanid can't do anything against it (countered by Golisopod of all mons), but I haven't seen it much and it doesn't seem to be useful against the mons that plague the tier (such as Kyurem-B, Dragonite).
To take a wild guess, a physically defensive rest-talk set would likely be the most useful as a pivot on balance teams to deal with some prominent threats (Mamo, non-CM Keldeo, Infernape, Alakazam)
Both of them absolutely get destroyed by rocks and it's incredibly hard to keep them off the field especially against HO due to insane Rockers this tier has however. (Terrak ffs)
Although I only really played with one team i built and Araquanid can't do anything against it (countered by Golisopod of all mons), but I haven't seen it much and it doesn't seem to be useful against the mons that plague the tier (such as Kyurem-B, Dragonite).
To take a wild guess, a physically defensive rest-talk set would likely be the most useful as a pivot on balance teams to deal with some prominent threats (Mamo, non-CM Keldeo, Infernape, Alakazam)
Both of them absolutely get destroyed by rocks and it's incredibly hard to keep them off the field especially against HO due to insane Rockers this tier has however. (Terrak ffs)
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