Less that it's acceptable, and more that no one has noticed/given a damn.
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Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread - Mk III
- Thread starter Dogfish44
- Start date
- Status
The latter. It's been brought up a few times, to my memory.
From a wild flavor guess, I'd say that if your head falls flat, you somehow flinch. But if you can still see with your face towards the ground or that head isn't your only head (same effect of being able to see?) you don't flinch? It's a stretch but the best I could come up with.
This shall be done as part of the
That is all. Smogon now loses an inherent advantage.
Can Fur Coat please mirror Huge/Pure Power there's no reason for it not to
Same goes for Fluffy obviously
Same goes for Fluffy obviously
Fur Coat does not double defense ingame, it halves incoming damage. This does not mirror Huge/Pure Power, so there's no reason for us to mirror them in ASB.
Geodude6
Look at my shiny CT!
Ingame that's effectively the same thing.
20:32phoenixcan somebody who's not in a phone post this convo
shure
shure
<gb_sounds> wait lol gold your post about fur coat
20:21:56isnt halving damage a stronger effect than doubling atk
20:22:28P<phoenix> it only halves physical
20:22:32so no not at all
20:22:43G<gb_sounds> . . .
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20:22:49P<phoenix> also halving physical damage
20:22:50G<Geodude> lol
20:23:04P<phoenix> is legitimately the same as defense for all intents and purposes I think
20:23:13G<Geodude> I agree
20:23:18P<phoenix> i guess it doesnt technically mirror but still silly
20:24:09G<gb_sounds> there are some additive components to damage formula (ingame but also asb lol) so noEM edit: this is wrong lol
20:24:19G<Geodude> !asbility pure power
20:24:19G<GoId> You do realize how much it differs in ASB, right?
20:24:26G<Geodude> !asbility fur coat
20:24:40G<gb_sounds> halving (physical) damage output a stronger effect than doubling atk
20:24:40G<GoId> Halting damage and doubling defense?
20:24:50E<Exclaimer> Is Bewear looking like an actual threat
20:25:27P<phoenix> gb_sounds that reflects favorably on fur coat ingame though
20:25:52because it means the mon with fur coat will take one less damage than one with doubled attack
20:26:47goid: it differs by precisely 1.5 bap
20:26:51per attack
20:27:23other than affecting brt p sure that's it
20:27:26dc check
20:27:35G<Geodude> !asbstats furfrou
20:27:46!data persian-a
20:27:53TIBot >_<
20:28:06P<phoenix> if you want to mirror the technical details in game it can at least be -5 bap
20:28:21G<gb_sounds> sry to be clear what i'm trying to say is its silly for fur coat to be weaker than huge power in asb
20:28:27G<Geodude> *-4.5
20:28:36G<gb_sounds> i dont really care because i dont care
20:28:45P<phoenix> yeah but we don't want fractions in abilities
20:28:47G<GoId> DC check
20:28:50P<phoenix> for obvious reasons
20:29:01and the .5 will make neither fur coat mon busted
20:29:08G<Geodude> true
20:29:19E<Exclaimer> "Fur Coat does not double defense ingame, it halves incoming damage."
20:29:41R<%Rainman> I don't think anyone cares about fur coat
20:29:42E<Exclaimer> The formula in-game makes this false because both reach the exact same result
20:29:54P<phoenix> exclaimer technically
20:30:07rainman I only care honestly because fluffy will be a fur coat clone
20:30:25exclaimer: technically
20:30:29a mon who halves damage
20:30:38will take one less damage than a mon who doubles defense
20:30:57E<Exclaimer> Okay
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20:31:20P<phoenix> I checked just for this argument
20:31:36that makes it even sillier that fur coat is worse though
20:31:53E<Exclaimer> *shrug* for all intents and purposes they are the exact same thing
20:32:05P<phoenix> yep
20:32:19if you really want to keep fur coat reducing damage
20:32:26because that's how ingame does it
20:32:39at least increase the decrease to 5
20:21:56isnt halving damage a stronger effect than doubling atk
20:22:28P<phoenix> it only halves physical
20:22:32so no not at all
20:22:43G<gb_sounds> . . .
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20:22:49P<phoenix> also halving physical damage
20:22:50G<Geodude> lol
20:23:04P<phoenix> is legitimately the same as defense for all intents and purposes I think
20:23:13G<Geodude> I agree
20:23:18P<phoenix> i guess it doesnt technically mirror but still silly
20:24:19G<Geodude> !asbility pure power
20:24:19G<GoId> You do realize how much it differs in ASB, right?
20:24:26G<Geodude> !asbility fur coat
20:24:40G<gb_sounds> halving (physical) damage output a stronger effect than doubling atk
20:24:40G<GoId> Halting damage and doubling defense?
20:24:50E<Exclaimer> Is Bewear looking like an actual threat
20:25:27P<phoenix> gb_sounds that reflects favorably on fur coat ingame though
20:25:52because it means the mon with fur coat will take one less damage than one with doubled attack
20:26:47goid: it differs by precisely 1.5 bap
20:26:51per attack
20:27:23other than affecting brt p sure that's it
20:27:26dc check
20:27:35G<Geodude> !asbstats furfrou
20:27:46!data persian-a
20:27:53TIBot >_<
20:28:06P<phoenix> if you want to mirror the technical details in game it can at least be -5 bap
20:28:21G<gb_sounds> sry to be clear what i'm trying to say is its silly for fur coat to be weaker than huge power in asb
20:28:27G<Geodude> *-4.5
20:28:36G<gb_sounds> i dont really care because i dont care
20:28:45P<phoenix> yeah but we don't want fractions in abilities
20:28:47G<GoId> DC check
20:28:50P<phoenix> for obvious reasons
20:29:01and the .5 will make neither fur coat mon busted
20:29:08G<Geodude> true
20:29:19E<Exclaimer> "Fur Coat does not double defense ingame, it halves incoming damage."
20:29:41R<%Rainman> I don't think anyone cares about fur coat
20:29:42E<Exclaimer> The formula in-game makes this false because both reach the exact same result
20:29:54P<phoenix> exclaimer technically
20:30:07rainman I only care honestly because fluffy will be a fur coat clone
20:30:25exclaimer: technically
20:30:29a mon who halves damage
20:30:38will take one less damage than a mon who doubles defense
20:30:57E<Exclaimer> Okay
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20:31:20P<phoenix> I checked just for this argument
20:31:36that makes it even sillier that fur coat is worse though
20:31:53E<Exclaimer> *shrug* for all intents and purposes they are the exact same thing
20:32:05P<phoenix> yep
20:32:19if you really want to keep fur coat reducing damage
20:32:26because that's how ingame does it
20:32:39at least increase the decrease to 5
But it's not in ASB, which is what's important here. Furthermore, if we just used equivalencies as justifications for buffs, then we may as well allow Huge Power to double incoming damage instead.
If Huge Power doubled outgoing damage in-game we'd give it at least +5 bap which on its own at least suggests Fur Coat is super relatively weak even though there's no reason for it to be.
Geodude6
Look at my shiny CT!
That couldn't be further from what phoenix is proposing.
I never denied Fur Coat's viability (or lack thereof), but you don't need to scrap it and start over to fix it. It was made this way out of concern for its strength, and it wasn't a problem until now.
Is it really? You want an ability that halves damage to double defense. That's simply the inverse of what I said: giving a 2x attack ability double damage. They work in opposite directions, but they're more similar then you're admitting.
Can we seriously just make Fur Coat a Huge Power clone?
That's the way it works in-game, and the way it's intended to work.
"Double Physical Defense" and "Halve Incoming Physical Damage" are the same in-game; who cares about the 1? This is the same effect, so I think we should treat it the same way.
Huge Power = Fur Coat
That's the way it works in-game, and the way it's intended to work.
"Double Physical Defense" and "Halve Incoming Physical Damage" are the same in-game; who cares about the 1? This is the same effect, so I think we should treat it the same way.
If Huge Power equated to double damage in ASB, it would be broken. Huge Power is not broken. A Huge Power clone that doubles Defense would not be broken either, especially on something like Furfrou. As it is, Fur Coat is worse than Huge Power for literally no reason other than an obscure game mechanic that does the same thing anyway.
Huge Power = Fur Coat
for the record halving physical damage and doubling physical defense aren't actually the same in game
that +2 constant term is affected by the modifier and so doubling both sides results in defense doubling being stronger by 4x where x is the modifier
in practice this is a miniscule effect but worth noting that they are not identical
that +2 constant term is affected by the modifier and so doubling both sides results in defense doubling being stronger by 4x where x is the modifier
in practice this is a miniscule effect but worth noting that they are not identical
that was already established Texas
also it comes out advantage fur coat so it's even more ridiculous that it's so much worse
also it comes out advantage fur coat so it's even more ridiculous that it's so much worse
Fake Out's description and traits are stupid and inconsistent with itself.
I have three proposals from IRC:
1) Shortening the description to: "The Pokemon strikes the opponent with immense swiftness using their hands/paws, causing them to flinch."
2) Making Fake Out non-contact.
3) Making Fake Out's combo type None.
It's a physical contact move, with the description of attacking with a shockwave of air. That makes no logical sense and makes combo-ing with this move really difficult for anyone to understand. I'd like to get closure on this because if we don't, we're gonna get arguments about how to combo this move. I know it'll happen because it happens with literally every unresolved issue in ASB.
I have three proposals from IRC:
1) Shortening the description to: "The Pokemon strikes the opponent with immense swiftness using their hands/paws, causing them to flinch."
2) Making Fake Out non-contact.
3) Making Fake Out's combo type None.
1:31:07 PM <+FMD> How the fuck is Fake Out + Iron Tail a thing?
1:31:49 PM <jayy> Fake Out + Iron Tail definitely is not a legal combo
1:34:19 PM <ooraloo> What is legal to combo with Fake Out?
1:34:24 PM <ooraloo> Punching moves?
1:34:37 PM <silver_lucario42> I used Knock Off
1:34:41 PM <Exclaimer> Small quick moves
1:34:45 PM <jayy> um, almost nothing with Fake Out tbh
1:34:46 PM <EarthTraveler> ^
1:34:50 PM <ooraloo> Knock Off seems questionable
1:34:52 PM <Exclaimer> like tackle, quick attack, extreme speed
1:35:00 PM <jayy> not Tackle, its a clap
1:35:03 PM <jayy> not a slam
1:35:17 PM <silver_lucario42> Force Palm?
1:35:17 PM <Exclaimer> I'd use tackle with it
1:35:23 PM <silver_lucario42> Arm Thrust?
1:35:35 PM <jayy> Force Palm i can sorta see
1:35:36 PM <EarthTraveler> i feel like with fake out + whatever
1:35:38 PM <Exclaimer> tbh the description for fake out needs to be reworked because it makes no fucking sense in any way
1:35:43 PM <EarthTraveler> they'd hit the opponent
1:35:48 PM <EarthTraveler> then do something else really quick
1:35:57 PM <Exclaimer> It's more akin to SonicBoom but it's a physical attack closer to tackle?
1:35:58 PM <silver_lucario42> !asbmove Fake Out
1:35:59 PM <EarthTraveler> !asbmove fake out
1:36:18 PM <EarthTraveler> what is this lol
1:36:18 PM <jayy> "Glameow runs up to the opponent and claps its paws together. When it claps, a large shockwave of air comes out of them and pushes the opponent back."
1:36:34 PM <jayy> Force Palm can combo with that ig
1:36:38 PM <EarthTraveler> "a shockwave of air that pushes the opponent back"
1:36:39 PM <jayy> Vacuum Wave comes to mind
1:36:46 PM <EarthTraveler> combine it with boomburst/hyper voice
1:36:46 PM <Exclaimer> A large shockwave of air
1:36:49 PM <Exclaimer> Except
1:36:49 PM <jayy> but sheesh that move should not be contac
1:36:51 PM <jayy> contact*
1:36:53 PM <Exclaimer> It's a physical contact move
1:37:04 PM <Exclaimer> The move isn't wrong, being contact makes sense
1:37:06 PM <%Rainman> doesnt it make contact ingame too?
1:37:08 PM <Exclaimer> It's the air thing
1:37:09 PM <FortColors> id probably accept fake out + most contact moves
1:37:11 PM <EarthTraveler> yeah
1:37:13 PM <Exclaimer> Yes it does rainman
1:37:21 PM <Exclaimer> Like why the fuck does it have a shockwave of air?
1:37:24 PM <%Rainman> then blame GF, not ASB on that side
1:37:27 PM <+FMD> Exclaimer, Fake Out is GameFreak's fault.
1:37:32 PM <jayy> the shockwave is what causes the flinch
1:37:41 PM <FortColors> the shockwave of air is asb
1:37:44 PM <FortColors> im pretty sure
1:37:50 PM <EarthTraveler> i also figured it was the surprise of the attack that caused the flinch
1:37:52 PM <+FMD> No it's not.
1:37:56 PM <EarthTraveler> i always*
1:38:00 PM <FortColors> wait really?
1:38:01 PM <jayy> the shockwave is from the anime
1:38:02 PM <Exclaimer> "An attack that hits first and makes the target flinch. It only works the first turn the user is in battle."
1:38:06 PM <FortColors> x_x
1:38:17 PM <Exclaimer> Yeah the anime is also super dumb and illogical and inconsistent
1:38:17 PM <jayy> i copied that description from something describing how the move is used in the anime
1:38:28 PM <+FMD> Fake Out's Japanese name literally means the strategy of clapping in your opponent's face in a sumo match to make them flinch.
1:38:31 PM <jayy> Glameow approaches and gets close to the Piplup, then claps
1:38:43 PM <jayy> yeah Fake Out is also animated in the games as a clap
1:38:48 PM <Exclaimer> Even though we are anime style battling, we shouldn't be using the anime as reliable source if we want our game to be reliable in any way
1:38:51 PM <Exclaimer> The clap thing, I can do
1:38:56 PM <Exclaimer> But the shockwave is just silly
1:38:57 PM <FortColors> but like you clap the target's face
1:39:07 PM <jayy> no, it isnt
1:39:10 PM <ToonDizzy> Lol idk why but I might accept some of those combos
1:39:13 PM <+FMD> A clap is non-contact, but GameFreak made it a contact move.
1:39:18 PM <jayy> because if i clapped in front of your face, you would flinch
1:39:22 PM <FortColors> id accept fake out + ToonDizzy
1:39:23 PM <EarthTraveler> wait bulbapedia has this:
1:39:29 PM <EarthTraveler> "Its Japanese name, ねこだまし Neko Damashi (Slap Hands), refers to a sumo technique used at the start of a match to make the opponent close their eyes. Its wide distribution among catlike Pokémon is likely a play on this name, as it literally translates to cat deception. "
1:39:36 PM <EarthTraveler> ^ from bulbapedia
1:39:38 PM <ToonDizzy> Then again I'm known to accept a high percentage of combos :x
1:40:26 PM <EarthTraveler> this shouldn't be a contact move
1:40:41 PM <+FMD> Like I said, GameFreak's fault.
1:41:16 PM <Exclaimer> I say we should make the move consistent instead of obeying the system and leaving in an extremely illogical description
1:41:27 PM <FortColors> mhm
1:41:29 PM <Exclaimer> because we will assuredly have this exact same argument again, and again
1:41:43 PM <jayy> consistent with what?
1:41:57 PM <jayy> because as we've seen, even they can't keep their shit straight
1:42:00 PM <FortColors> i'd probably advocate making it noncontact
1:42:05 PM <jayy> ^
1:42:13 PM <jayy> i feel like the move should be non-contact in ASB
1:42:18 PM <Exclaimer> I'd be fine with a noncontact fake out
1:42:20 PM <jayy> it makes /way/ more sense
1:42:28 PM <Exclaimer> As long as the move is actually logical
1:31:49 PM <jayy> Fake Out + Iron Tail definitely is not a legal combo
1:34:19 PM <ooraloo> What is legal to combo with Fake Out?
1:34:24 PM <ooraloo> Punching moves?
1:34:37 PM <silver_lucario42> I used Knock Off
1:34:41 PM <Exclaimer> Small quick moves
1:34:45 PM <jayy> um, almost nothing with Fake Out tbh
1:34:46 PM <EarthTraveler> ^
1:34:50 PM <ooraloo> Knock Off seems questionable
1:34:52 PM <Exclaimer> like tackle, quick attack, extreme speed
1:35:00 PM <jayy> not Tackle, its a clap
1:35:03 PM <jayy> not a slam
1:35:17 PM <silver_lucario42> Force Palm?
1:35:17 PM <Exclaimer> I'd use tackle with it
1:35:23 PM <silver_lucario42> Arm Thrust?
1:35:35 PM <jayy> Force Palm i can sorta see
1:35:36 PM <EarthTraveler> i feel like with fake out + whatever
1:35:38 PM <Exclaimer> tbh the description for fake out needs to be reworked because it makes no fucking sense in any way
1:35:43 PM <EarthTraveler> they'd hit the opponent
1:35:48 PM <EarthTraveler> then do something else really quick
1:35:57 PM <Exclaimer> It's more akin to SonicBoom but it's a physical attack closer to tackle?
1:35:58 PM <silver_lucario42> !asbmove Fake Out
1:35:59 PM <EarthTraveler> !asbmove fake out
1:36:18 PM <EarthTraveler> what is this lol
1:36:18 PM <jayy> "Glameow runs up to the opponent and claps its paws together. When it claps, a large shockwave of air comes out of them and pushes the opponent back."
1:36:34 PM <jayy> Force Palm can combo with that ig
1:36:38 PM <EarthTraveler> "a shockwave of air that pushes the opponent back"
1:36:39 PM <jayy> Vacuum Wave comes to mind
1:36:46 PM <EarthTraveler> combine it with boomburst/hyper voice
1:36:46 PM <Exclaimer> A large shockwave of air
1:36:49 PM <Exclaimer> Except
1:36:49 PM <jayy> but sheesh that move should not be contac
1:36:51 PM <jayy> contact*
1:36:53 PM <Exclaimer> It's a physical contact move
1:37:04 PM <Exclaimer> The move isn't wrong, being contact makes sense
1:37:06 PM <%Rainman> doesnt it make contact ingame too?
1:37:08 PM <Exclaimer> It's the air thing
1:37:09 PM <FortColors> id probably accept fake out + most contact moves
1:37:11 PM <EarthTraveler> yeah
1:37:13 PM <Exclaimer> Yes it does rainman
1:37:21 PM <Exclaimer> Like why the fuck does it have a shockwave of air?
1:37:24 PM <%Rainman> then blame GF, not ASB on that side
1:37:27 PM <+FMD> Exclaimer, Fake Out is GameFreak's fault.
1:37:32 PM <jayy> the shockwave is what causes the flinch
1:37:41 PM <FortColors> the shockwave of air is asb
1:37:44 PM <FortColors> im pretty sure
1:37:50 PM <EarthTraveler> i also figured it was the surprise of the attack that caused the flinch
1:37:52 PM <+FMD> No it's not.
1:37:56 PM <EarthTraveler> i always*
1:38:00 PM <FortColors> wait really?
1:38:01 PM <jayy> the shockwave is from the anime
1:38:02 PM <Exclaimer> "An attack that hits first and makes the target flinch. It only works the first turn the user is in battle."
1:38:06 PM <FortColors> x_x
1:38:17 PM <Exclaimer> Yeah the anime is also super dumb and illogical and inconsistent
1:38:17 PM <jayy> i copied that description from something describing how the move is used in the anime
1:38:28 PM <+FMD> Fake Out's Japanese name literally means the strategy of clapping in your opponent's face in a sumo match to make them flinch.
1:38:31 PM <jayy> Glameow approaches and gets close to the Piplup, then claps
1:38:43 PM <jayy> yeah Fake Out is also animated in the games as a clap
1:38:48 PM <Exclaimer> Even though we are anime style battling, we shouldn't be using the anime as reliable source if we want our game to be reliable in any way
1:38:51 PM <Exclaimer> The clap thing, I can do
1:38:56 PM <Exclaimer> But the shockwave is just silly
1:38:57 PM <FortColors> but like you clap the target's face
1:39:07 PM <jayy> no, it isnt
1:39:10 PM <ToonDizzy> Lol idk why but I might accept some of those combos
1:39:13 PM <+FMD> A clap is non-contact, but GameFreak made it a contact move.
1:39:18 PM <jayy> because if i clapped in front of your face, you would flinch
1:39:22 PM <FortColors> id accept fake out + ToonDizzy
1:39:23 PM <EarthTraveler> wait bulbapedia has this:
1:39:29 PM <EarthTraveler> "Its Japanese name, ねこだまし Neko Damashi (Slap Hands), refers to a sumo technique used at the start of a match to make the opponent close their eyes. Its wide distribution among catlike Pokémon is likely a play on this name, as it literally translates to cat deception. "
1:39:36 PM <EarthTraveler> ^ from bulbapedia
1:39:38 PM <ToonDizzy> Then again I'm known to accept a high percentage of combos :x
1:40:26 PM <EarthTraveler> this shouldn't be a contact move
1:40:41 PM <+FMD> Like I said, GameFreak's fault.
1:41:16 PM <Exclaimer> I say we should make the move consistent instead of obeying the system and leaving in an extremely illogical description
1:41:27 PM <FortColors> mhm
1:41:29 PM <Exclaimer> because we will assuredly have this exact same argument again, and again
1:41:43 PM <jayy> consistent with what?
1:41:57 PM <jayy> because as we've seen, even they can't keep their shit straight
1:42:00 PM <FortColors> i'd probably advocate making it noncontact
1:42:05 PM <jayy> ^
1:42:13 PM <jayy> i feel like the move should be non-contact in ASB
1:42:18 PM <Exclaimer> I'd be fine with a noncontact fake out
1:42:20 PM <jayy> it makes /way/ more sense
1:42:28 PM <Exclaimer> As long as the move is actually logical
I support proposal #2.
Reasoning: The move is essentially just clapping in the person's face, which we do irl, and it doesn't involve contact. Also the anime rendition of the move Fake Out is the same way, and that's where the shockwave comes from.
Reasoning: The move is essentially just clapping in the person's face, which we do irl, and it doesn't involve contact. Also the anime rendition of the move Fake Out is the same way, and that's where the shockwave comes from.
Fake Out makes contact in-game. > Fake Out makes contact in ASB.
people look at the descriptions for combos because just looking at the moves doesn't tend ot be specific enough
Personally I like option 2 because that's how the move actually executes: you clap in front of the opponent and hope they flinch from the clap
1:39:29 PM <EarthTraveler> "Its Japanese name, ねこだまし Neko Damashi (Slap Hands), refers to a sumo technique used at the start of a match to make the opponent close their eyes."
Continuing FMD's very important work:
Rock Smash + Rock Smash: Discussion thread is already up but barely got any attention. I guess people love their combo techs after all? Also that's a good platform to discuss whether this interpretation extends to Ember^2 and co.
BAP deduction to Rock-types under Sandstorm: If enough Council members / mods could like this, then it'll be passed. If enough other peeps like this, it'll go to Voting. If it gets no response, I'll just turn it into an arena modification. "Enough" translates to 4 here.
Thunder Stone: If enough peeps think that it deserves a rework, then please like Jjay's post. Because liking my post means support for another issue altogether.
Fur Coat: Fine. Moving to Discussion.
Fake Out clarification: Exclaim did a nice job putting together some proposed changes, so if enough people like her post, it'll probably go straight to Voting. If you want to add new proposals, please post in here.
Rock Smash + Rock Smash: Discussion thread is already up but barely got any attention. I guess people love their combo techs after all? Also that's a good platform to discuss whether this interpretation extends to Ember^2 and co.
BAP deduction to Rock-types under Sandstorm: If enough Council members / mods could like this, then it'll be passed. If enough other peeps like this, it'll go to Voting. If it gets no response, I'll just turn it into an arena modification. "Enough" translates to 4 here.
Thunder Stone: If enough peeps think that it deserves a rework, then please like Jjay's post. Because liking my post means support for another issue altogether.
Fur Coat: Fine. Moving to Discussion.
Fake Out clarification: Exclaim did a nice job putting together some proposed changes, so if enough people like her post, it'll probably go straight to Voting. If you want to add new proposals, please post in here.
dislike
Idk if this is too late or out of place, apologies in advance if it is, but I hadn't quite seen ice stone's effects until just now.
Again, if this is either the wrong place or the wrong time to bring this up I apologize. I think the ability interactions are super lame (the evasion boost is a non-issue since 90% of the time you're gonna be under hail anyway, plus do we really want a mon whose only selling point is "auto 20% evasion boost"?, and Hail is already four rounds long as is. I doubt anyone will ever go "oh I wish I had six straight rounds of hail", plus you can manually reset it anyways), and we're falling well short of our self-imposed benchmark, which is Rare Candy. RC would mean +1BAP Ice/+1BAP Fairy/+1SpD, and Ninetales is getting +1SpD/redundant ability interactions. Dunno if it's just me, but I think Ice Stone needs a bit of reworking?
Also sorry IAR for messing with your spankin' brand-new generation. I really do appreciate all that thankless labor, as does everyone else
13:15 <duck_vs_tfoe> GUYS
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> Can we talk about how shitty ice stone is on ninetales?
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> its only effect is to make hail last longer?
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> like
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> what the fuck
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> not even the +1 from flash fire like fire stone
13:16 <jayy> because it doesnt have any damaging abilities yas
13:17 <jayy> its abilities are utility and reflexively defensive
13:17 <duck_vs_tfoe> ye but
13:17 <duck_vs_tfoe> if our benchmark is RC
13:17 <duck_vs_tfoe> RC would do +1 Ice/+1 Fairy and +1 SpD
13:17 <duck_vs_tfoe> This thing is +1SpD
13:17 <jayy> and longer hail and +20% evasion
13:18 <duck_vs_tfoe> the 20% evasion would already be there
13:18 <duck_vs_tfoe> because hail
13:18 <duck_vs_tfoe> plus hail is already 3 rounds long
13:18 <duck_vs_tfoe> who's gonna stay in for four rounds straight?
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> Can we talk about how shitty ice stone is on ninetales?
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> its only effect is to make hail last longer?
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> like
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> what the fuck
13:16 <duck_vs_tfoe> not even the +1 from flash fire like fire stone
13:16 <jayy> because it doesnt have any damaging abilities yas
13:17 <jayy> its abilities are utility and reflexively defensive
13:17 <duck_vs_tfoe> ye but
13:17 <duck_vs_tfoe> if our benchmark is RC
13:17 <duck_vs_tfoe> RC would do +1 Ice/+1 Fairy and +1 SpD
13:17 <duck_vs_tfoe> This thing is +1SpD
13:17 <jayy> and longer hail and +20% evasion
13:18 <duck_vs_tfoe> the 20% evasion would already be there
13:18 <duck_vs_tfoe> because hail
13:18 <duck_vs_tfoe> plus hail is already 3 rounds long
13:18 <duck_vs_tfoe> who's gonna stay in for four rounds straight?
Also sorry IAR for messing with your spankin' brand-new generation. I really do appreciate all that thankless labor, as does everyone else
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