Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread (New Proposal Handling System in OP)

[Athenodoros]

I would have thought that the same logic applied to Synchroquake and Synchrodoze could apply to other spread moves, be it Surf, Discharge or (not so sure about this one) Explosion. How would people feel about adding it to all of those?

Things like Pokemon Surfing on the same wave, or Discharging in sync with the same change in voltage.

Editting: I agree with LJ entirely about items and meant to bring it up myself. Banning Synchroquaking would also be logically consistent, but it's growing on me now. Although I'd say that 1/2 might be a bit much.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Idk personally I'd prefer to see synchroquaking abolished entirely...

One thing I'd like to bring up is items. I think there should be a way to refund unwanted items fin some way. It could be a simple matter of making a claim in the Prize Claim thread. I would suggest being able to sell items for half their original cost in CC, which mirrors in-game precedent.

 

[LouisCyphre]

How do people feel about actually withdrawing mons from battle in Switch = KO? Something like "after this round, I am withdrawing Carnivine." It's occured several times in various media and, when done, has been treated the same as a battle KO.

What would the limitations on this be?

 

[Deck Knight]

I should note I updated the Combinations section of the DAT with implementations.

Specifically it now mentions that you can use Combinations on the last action of a round, but must cool down the first action of the next round, meaning the Pokemon cannot switch out unless forced out by a move effect.

I also updated combination type with codifications, and the relevant new one is that attacks that have the same combination type and Base Attack Power but both are either STABbed or UnSTABbed, the resulting combination is typeless. I felt this an appropriate middle ground between the outsized advantage type selection gives to Fighting and Normal types and the undesirable effect of failing outright. What it does instead is allow effects to trump type immunities unless the effect immunity is inborn to the type (e.g. Poison cannot be Poisoned, Fire can't be burned, etc.)

I think Item Resale at 1/2 the CC value of the item is reasonable - all reimbursements would of course be in CC.

In general I'd rather extend Synchroquaking to all Hits entire field or adjacent field moves than ban Syncroquaking, considering what a benefit it is to Ground's mainstay STAB in Double or greater battles.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

I think Item Resale at 1/2 the CC value of the item is reasonable - all reimbursements would of course be in CC.

For the benefit of others:

10:04Jesseus hey Deck
10:04Jesseus "I think Item Resale at 1/2 the CC value of the item is reasonable - all reimbursements would of course be in CC."
10:05Jesseus is this going ahead now?
10:05Jesseus if so, do prices round up or down?
10:05Deck_Knigh tRounded down.
10:05Jesseus thought so
10:05Jesseus in that case
10:06Jesseusif i seel multiple items together10:06Jesseus is it half the total?10:06Deck_Knight Yeah10:06Jesseus ok cool10:06Jesseus so i can do that now?
10:06Deck_Knight The only lingering issue is people reselling berries I guess.
10:07 Jesseus...well i imagine itd be fine
10:07Deck_Knight People don't seem to use the initial berries and I think in total they're worth like 10 CC
10:07Jesseus to sell a full set
10:07Jesseus but the starting berries are like, 2 of each isnt it?
10:07Deck_Knight Yes
10:07Jesseus so maybe you can only seel them as you buy them
10:07Deck_Knight 2 of the status ones + Oran and Leppa
10:07Jesseus in groups of 5
10:08Deck_Knight That would make sense

tl;dr Items sell for half CC, rounded down, but you can minimise rounding by selling multiple items together. Additionally, berries (and I guess balls too?) can only be sold as they are bought; in groups of 5. Also c+ping from mibbit is ugly.

 

[Orcinus Duo]

How about being able to sell unwanted items to other people, at a minimum price of (what jesseus said)?

 

[LouisCyphre]

I also updated combination type with codifications, and the relevant new one is that attacks that have the same combination type and Base Attack Power but both are either STABbed or UnSTABbed, the resulting combination is typeless. I felt this an appropriate middle ground between the outsized advantage type selection gives to Fighting and Normal types and the undesirable effect of failing outright. What it does instead is allow effects to trump type immunities unless the effect immunity is inborn to the type (e.g. Poison cannot be Poisoned, Fire can't be burned, etc.)

Unown should be exempt from this. That is, Unown should be able to specify the type of its Hidden Power X + Hidden Power Y combos.

EDIT: Oh, while I'm thinking of it, proposed buff to Metronome (Item):

[box]Metronome: Increases the Base Attack Power dealt by consecutive uses of attacks after their first use by one (1) and one (1) more for each additional use up to a maximum of ten (10) uses. (Ex. An attack used twice has +2 BAP, thrice +3, etc.) Also reduces the En penalty of consecutive move use by 2.[/box]

This makes it a more desirable item, that still competes with damage-boosting and recovery-granting items. It better facilitates its effect and becomes the go-to item for mons such as Serperior that can't carry redundant type coverage.

 

[Maxim]

Eh, one slight problem I found with that Lou. If you put the Metronome on a Pokemon using Fury Cutter (which is arguably the best way to use it)...

Fury Cutter: The Pokémon repeatedly slashes the foe, with every consecutive slash increasing damage by three (3) and Energy Cost by one (1). If Fury Cutter misses or is blocked (but is still used consecutively), its number of Consecutive Uses decreases by one (1) (e.g. if it is blocked after 3 consecutive uses, the next attack will calculate damage based on 2 Consecutive uses). Fury Cutter does not incur the normal Consecutive Attacks penalty.

Attack Power: 4 + (Consecutive Uses * 3) (Max 22)| Accuracy: 95% | Energy Cost: 4 + 1 per Consecutive Use | Attack Type: Physical | Effect Chance: -- | Contact: Yes | Typing: Bug | Priority: 0 | CT: Elemental

That would effectively screw this move's energy cost mechanic over.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

No it wouldnt. Because Lou's proposed Metronome reduces the consecutive attacks penalty. Fury Cutter doesn't have a consecutive attacks penalty, so nothing happens.

 

[Stratos]

not really, it's pretty obvious that Fury Cutter would have an en penalty of 0 with metronome, not -2

 

[LouisCyphre]

Can I rule that players can legally acquire V-Create from Lucy's Rayquaza?

I mean, if someone gets a SMEARGLE to Lucy on Gold Rank...

 

[Destiny Warrior]

Can I rule that players can legally acquire V-Create from Lucy's Rayquaza?

I mean, if someone gets a SMEARGLE to Lucy on Gold Rank...

Just pointing out that a Soakless Necturna/Necturine can do that as well, but yeah. Agreeing with this proposal.

 

[Deck Knight]

Yeah, if there's a legit V-Create Rayquaza and Smeargle survives to get to it and survives getting hit by it, it can Sketch it. Most of the restrictions on "things you can't Sketch" have to do with player exploits of the less-than-totally random applications of calling moves to ASB.

Also I am thinking about an update to Moody:

This is Moody Now:

Moody:

Type: Innate

This Pokemon's traits are always fluctuating from one strength to another. At the end of each round, one of the Pokemon's stats (Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, Speed, Accuracy, Evasion) will be boosted by two (2) stages and another will be reduced by one (1) stage. This stat change lasts until the end of that round, where Moody is re-applied, overwriting the boosted and dropped stats. This stat boost/drop occurs outside the normal boosts/drops.

Pokemon with this ability: Remoraid, Octillery, Smeargle, Snorunt, Glalie, Bidoof, Bibarel.

The problem with this is that really, only Bibarel potentially benefits since it has Simple. Everything else basically prays not to get an Acc reduction since that's a nuisance.

What I want to do is make Moody much more powerful, but keep it restrained to only one boost at a time. Essentially what I want to do is have Moody adopt a "Moody Nature" to apply to the Pokemon. You would have your own selected Nature, and then Moody would amplify it with a selection from the Nature List, doubling that nature's poisitive buffs while applying the regular negatives, e.g. For nuetral natures, following Bulbapedia's list we'll just give them the relevant positive buff and ignore the negative.

To wit:

Moody Natures:

Hide

Hardy (+1 Atk)
Lonely (+2 Atk, -1 Def)
Adamant (+2 Atk, -1 SpA)
Naughty (+2 Atk, -1 SpD)
Brave (+2 Atk, -15% Speed, -10% Evasion)

Bold (+2 Def, -1 Atk)
Docile (+1 Def)
Impish (+2 Def, -1 SpA)
Lax (+2 Def, -1 SpD)
Relaxed (+2 Def, -15% Speed, -10% Evasion)

Modest (+2 SpA, -1 Atk)
Mild (+2 SpA, -1 Def)
Bashful (+1 SpA)
Rash (+2 SpA, -1 SpD)
Quiet (+2 SpA, -15% Speed, -10% Evasion)

Calm (+2 SpD, -1 Atk)
Gentle (+2 SpD, -1 Def)
Careful (+2 SpD, -1 SpA)
Quirky (+1 SpD)
Sassy (+2 SpD, -15% Speed, -10% Evasion)

Timid (+30% Speed, +2X Accuracy, -1 Atk)
Hasty (+30% Speed, +2X Accuracy, -1 Def)
Jolly (+30% Speed, +2X Accuracy, -1 SpA)
Naive (+30% Speed, +2X Accuracy, -1 SpD)
Serious (+15% Speed, +X Accuracy)

This is pretty strong, but not overwhelmingly so, and since it's still random (1/25 the first selection for R2, 1/24 for each selection afterward), it can backfire, like getting -SpD on your mon that already has a -SpD Nature naturally. It should also be noted that none of the Pokemon affected by Moody and so absurdly powerful that having say, a Rank 7 SpA Octillery for a round (Quiet + Moody Quiet) would destroy game balance. (Octillery would be insanely slow and be hit by every single Stone Edge, and have an opposing Zap Cannon jump up to 70% Acc ffs). Smeargle's the only Pokemon that doesn't have 2 Ranks in each stat, and I honestly don't care about a theoretical -1 Rank SpA Smeargle enough to not think this is a good idea.

I think it would be an interesting take, but it's such a drastic change I think I should run it by you all first.

 

[Dummy007]

The only thing I dislike about it is that it no longer works with Simple, and that's one of Bibarel's only selling points, as well as the reason I bought it. I can't really think of any way to remedy this, however, so I suppose I agree with the proposal.

 

[Stratos]

right now, OHKO moves are a little easy to mess with. you can go +Spe, run a scarf, use CompoundEyes, or combine with -- Acc moves to get a good accuracy OHKO move. Hell, you can even raise your accuracy with Gravity/Hone Claws/Coil/Moody/Sweet Scent/Defog/Accupressure. I specifically remember SDS once said on irc that OHKO move accuracies cannot be modded in any way but with Mind Reader, but it appears that this was not officially implemented ever. i would like to see this put in place.

 

[Arcanite]

OHKO moves don't actually OHKO, they just have 25 BAP.

 

[Athenodoros]

That's true, and in addition I'm pretty sure most/all of those don't work anyway.

 

[Its_A_Random]

Sheer Cold + Blizzard (Under Hail) says hi. So does Aerial Ace + Guillotine. I'm personally for this nerf, & I honestly thought this was already implemented...

 

[Stratos]

OHKO moves don't actually OHKO, they just have 25 BAP.

i'm fully aware of this. are you aware that 25 is still a fuck ton of bap? especially if it is super effective, in which case it becomes 38 BAP, or maybe even 56! for example, Abomasnow Sheer Cold + Blizzard deals 90 damage to a Salamence and NEVER MISSES. and it only costs 38 en! that may not be the norm but it's still a bit kooky.

for example, if i were in the mood, i could use a Scarf +spe Compoundeyes syclant and i would have a 95% chance to hit you with SHEER FUCKING COLD. i just think that's a tad bit fucked up

 

[Lord Jesseus]

for example, Abomasnow Sheer Cold + Blizzard deals 90 damage to a Salamence and NEVER MISSES. and it only costs 24 en!

It's more like 38 EN. Or 36 if you apply STAB to both moves before multiplying by 1.5, but I'm pretty sure STAB applies afterwards.
But yes, it is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Dogfish44]

I suppose I can play devils advocate here....

i'm fully aware of this. are you aware that 25 is still a fuck ton of bap?

Yes, 25 BP is a lot. Aggron's Head Smash can hit comparable power (20 BP?) with a higher accuracy and without specialising items, or using combinations.

especially if it is super effective, in which case it becomes 38 BAP, or maybe even 56!

BAP power is the same, it's the damage that changes. And I'm fairly confident that a majority of ASB players understand the concept that super effective moves do more damage.

for example, Abomasnow Sheer Cold + Blizzard deals 90 damage to a Salamence and NEVER MISSES. and it only costs 38 en! that may not be the norm but it's still a bit kooky.

Considering higher BPs can be reached in equally bias settings, it isn't normal. I can get incredibly power out of a Swoobat's Stored Power vs a Toxicroak - but there isn't a call to weaken the move which costs distinctly less.

for example, if i were in the mood, i could use a Scarf +spe Compoundeyes syclant and i would have a 95% chance to hit you with SHEER FUCKING COLD. i just think that's a tad bit fucked up

Numbers? Let's see...

Multiplicative effects are CompundEyes. 30*1.3 = 39% Accurate
+22% (+Spe) then +25% (Scarf) and you only get 86%. Effectively you've specialised into a mon that isn't as accurate as you'd like, is going to be an energy whore, is incredibly easy to substitute around, and is probably a waste of space in the long term.

~~~

I do believe the moves are quite powerful and I wouldn't mind them being changed - so don't get me wrong there - but I'd rather them be restricted in a different manner. Simply make any move or combination involving Sheer Cold not be able to exceed 50% accuracy and I really don't see an issue here.

 

[Gemini Taurus]

I agree with Lou on the fact that Unown should be exempt from the same BA&CT rules.

Unown is only useful because of its combos (and maybe HP dark) so nerfing it more in unnecessary

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

Oh, I should probably post this here. My proposal is to change Metal Powder.

Metal Powder: Doubles (x2) Defense and Special Defense rank. Effect remains even while transformed.

Cost: 6 | Affected Pokemon: Ditto

Basically, my qualm with this is that a doubling is too much; the HP gap in ASB is less significant than in-game, and having a Pokemon with three or maybe four more ranks in each defensive stat, even with 10 less HP, is an absolutely huge advantage that no other item bar Eviolite comes close to. The only other item that doubles stats is Light Ball, but honestly, 2/2 or 2/3 offenses that turn into 4/4 or 4/6 ones are much less powerful than 8/8 defenses—4/4 defenses in ASB aren't that rare; Thick Club also doubles Attack, but it's still fairly dealable.

So obviously I'm recommending a nerf. There are two options, afaik: one like Eviolite, and an additive one.

Metal Powder: Increases the Defense and Special Defense of the Pokemon by half of its current ranks, rounded up. Effect remains even while transformed.

Cost: 6 | Affected Pokemon: Ditto

Metal Powder: Increases the Defense and Special Defense of the Pokemon by two (2). Effect remains even while transformed.

Cost: 6 | Affected Pokemon: Ditto

Both of these are about equal when the opponent has defensive stats of around 3 and 4, which is where they are on average. The bottom one doesn't quite reflect the real stats of the transformed Pokemon when the defenses are low and varied (e.g. 1/3 defenses), while the top one is still asinine when it comes to something like Steelix and Shuckle (12 Def in the former case, 14/14 in the latter). I'm personally leaning towards the bottom one, as it not only eliminates scenarios of ridiculously high defenses but also keeps it in line with ASB's general rule of additiveness.

Thoughts?

 

[LouisCyphre]

Bandwagoning with Engi. Certain users have been using Metal Powder as a substitute for skill.

 

[Lord Jesseus]

As someone who just recently fought (though admittedly defeated) an 18 Def/SpD Shuckle, I approve of Engineer's post. The latter seems to make more sense, imo. Adding two ranks in both defenses to any good mon is still pretty formidable.