Assassin's Creed III (Spoilers??)


Assassin's Creed III stars another one of Desmond's ancestors: Connor Kenway (or Ratonhnhaké:ton), an assassin born of Mohawk and British descent. The game itself is set during the American revolution. Some new weapons are introduced in this game, such as the bow and the tomahawk. The game is set to be released on the PS3 and Xbox360 on the 30th (US) and 31st (UK) of October. 20th (US) and 23rd (UK) for the PC and on the Wii U presumably around the console's release

The game's new engine, AnvilNext, allows the game to depict up 2000 troops in battle and allow for environmental effects such as seasons to take place
 

Relados

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Having more people visible at once, like the 2000 you mentioned, seems insane. I can't wait to play it.
 

vonFiedler

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Running on trees and massive battles? Has another year flown by? The railroad of broken of broken promises it already making its rounds again. After Brotherhood I sword I'd never buy another AC game. After Revelations I swore I'd never even rent another one. For anyone who thinks CoD is a bad series, no, this is the laziest franchise in this generation.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Judging an entire franchise based off of the two spin-off/extension games not even made by the original team? Ok.

I'm looking forward to this game. It's my favorite part of history, and the games have been pretty good so far (Despite the combat getting progressively worse since AC1) so it should be a good mix. I like the tree-running and the open expanse of wilderness, coupled with the seasonal changes (gimmicky, but cool).
 

vonFiedler

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Judging an entire franchise based off of the two spin-off/extension games not even made by the original team? Ok.
Well I mean the first one wasn't even worth bringing up just to spit on. Even in the 2nd game the story only amounted to a cliffhanger, Ubisoft doesn't want to tell a story they just want to milk a franchise. And it sure tastes sour now.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Well I mean the first one wasn't even worth bringing up just to spit on. Even in the 2nd game the story only amounted to a cliffhanger, Ubisoft doesn't want to tell a story they just want to milk a franchise. And it sure tastes sour now.
Sounds like a personal problem, not an objective one.


I played the entire series while at College on my roommates XBox but am going to buy this game for my PS3. I'm going to guarantee right now that I'm going to probably end up killing myself based on the differences in control scheme at some point while playing.
 

vonFiedler

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Sounds like a personal problem, not an objective one.
Don't be cliched. It's absolutely an objective observation that AC2 used a cliffhanger to sell more games.

Assassin's Creed was collection piled on top of collection piled on top of collection. Collect viewpoints, collect templars, collect tons of fucking flags. Gotta collect recon so you can collect assassinations. The game is a constant dull grey and a formulaic malaise but this sort of hollow gameplay is proven to be addictive. Then they give you little in the ending, wanting you to buy the sequel that they will pump out in a year. When Activision does that people hate them. But addiction is addiction.

I'll give you that at least Assassin's Creed II was a fantastic sequel. It injected needed character and didn't follow such a rigid formula as the first. However its sequels would add so much addictive gameplay that you'd think Zynga was making them. First there was literally buying all of fucking Rome. A "money management" game except that you would never run out of money. It just kept piling up. But that wasn't the point. Not to be challenging. No, the point was just to extend the game by making you go to every location in the game and making you clean up. And making you think you wanted to. Even when you were buying absolutely useless shit like landmarks. Well you weren't going to get those achievements/trophies otherwise right?

Then you collect and level up assassins. Leveling up a ton of minions just so you could kill things even easier (remember challenge doesn't matter, only that you are playing). Then in Revelations this system reaches the absolute height of shame with it's world domination screen, taking the gameplay out of gameplay and making you wait for your assassin's to level up. Holy shit was this made by Zynga? Other stupid shit in that game; tower defense (poor tower defense at that) and Desmond Sequences. Tell me with a straight face Desmond Sequences weren't the stupidest shit.

So either you are addicted or you just blew through the story missions as fast as possible (not possible in AC1). Well I suppose you would enjoy the game more if you didn't take your time with it, what I hate the most after playing these long games once a year is the automated controls. Pretty much guaranteed to piss you off eventually when the game decides for you where your jump is gonna land, what you are going to grab onto, what combat maneuver is right for which situation. Though I'm not even the only person here to say that combat was a fucking joke after AC2. You walk into crowds of enemies and they just die.

EDIT: Also oh my god are you fucking kidding me
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Assassins Creed 1 may have been repetitive and featured a poor "Collect everything" mindset, but it also had a Combat System that was absolutely fantastic. First, it inherently promoted a dichotomy of "Aggression vs. Passivity" that taxed and tormented the player and yet also made allowance for the player to explore the way they wished to play the game. You could raise the risk of an engagement by going all out Offense, or you could minimize/eliminate risk by playing Defensive at the expense of time, time which would allow more enemies to come, adding more time. This made the player want to just go aggressive and fight through the enemies quickly despite the risk. However, as the game progressed this became more complicated for the sheer numbers of enemies, and also the introduction of enemies that could counter.

That combat system is raised from great to genius when you realize that it REINFORCES THE ENTIRE STORY BACKDROP OF ALTAIR. Altair broke the rules of the Assassin's code and went headlong into a situation with a ton of aggression, and was met with failure and disgrace. He was forced to relearn the basics and practice patience to improve himself as a person and an assassin. Having the combat system directly translate that in gameplay dichotomy is both ridiculously meta and fantastically brilliant.


Then they took their genius combat system and replaced it with "lol let's kill everything easy mode" in ACII. In Brotherhood and Revelations they introduced units that were almost basically unkillable to stop the ease of "endless kill streak let's get it". I agree they dropped the ball in that arena.

However, where they failed in combat in ACII, they made up for in my mind by having another go at their platforming aspect of the franchise. In the first game they promoted it by having to collect random things. When the platforming controls were as inconsistent as they were doing such just became a chore. In ACII and onward they creating a more responsive and reliable platforming system while also making it faster thereby creating a more fluid climbing experience that was just easier and more interesting to use. Suddenly all the cheesy "Go to point X"/"Follow person Y"/"Collect Z" missions became much more interesting because you got to use the platforming system. The inclusion of Assassin tombs in ACII also gave us a chance to solve interesting puzzles and gave us a platforming challenge and were arguably some of the best points of the game.


ACII: Brotherhood and ACII: Revelations are guilty of every single complaint you just made and I agree completely with your criticism. Luckily ACIII wasn't made by this Dev Team, and was made instead by the Dev Team that made ACI, and ACII which actually had really great things going for them. This is why I'm saying hold of your ACIII judgment for now, and wait to see if the crimes of the spinoff games are found in this new title.


As for the Cliffhanger endings, all I have to say is, do you honestly give a fuck? Do you really care about this completely convoluted, ridiculous, and absurd storyline that Desmond is going through? Using really bad cliche cliffhanger endings doesn't make people want to know how a story ends. We're talking about the same people who play video-games who made an uproar over the Mass Effect 3 ending. These people play AC too, and I don't think their tastes have changed. The majority of players aren't uneducated drool-bags who can't spot shitty writing and get sucked in to buying more games just because they don't know how the story ends. Doesn't stop all this crap from being bad, but it's not a big deal.
 

vonFiedler

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That combat system is raised from great to genius when you realize that it REINFORCES THE ENTIRE STORY BACKDROP OF ALTAIR. Altair broke the rules of the Assassin's code and went headlong into a situation with a ton of aggression, and was met with failure and disgrace. He was forced to relearn the basics and practice patience to improve himself as a person and an assassin. Having the combat system directly translate that in gameplay dichotomy is both ridiculously meta and fantastically brilliant.
In other words "hey it's a video game and you gotta learn things in order". Next you are going to tell me that Other M was brilliant. Also I'd care more about what Altair was going through if he wasn't a phenomenally shitty character. He has no personality other than being a dirtbag. I was told as much before I played AC1 but I was not fucking prepared for how unlikeable this guy is. And this is the guy that the series has rigorously jacked off in all three Ezio games?

As for the Cliffhanger endings, all I have to say is, do you honestly give a fuck? Do you really care about this completely convoluted, ridiculous, and absurd storyline that Desmond is going through? Using really bad cliche cliffhanger endings doesn't make people want to know how a story ends. We're talking about the same people who play video-games who made an uproar over the Mass Effect 3 ending. These people play AC too, and I don't think their tastes have changed. The majority of players aren't uneducated drool-bags who can't spot shitty writing and get sucked in to buying more games just because they don't know how the story ends. Doesn't stop all this crap from being bad, but it's not a big deal.
The story is stupid so we shouldn't care basically. That sounds like something an "uneducated drool-bag" would say. It's not ME3 awful, I think I've made my stance on that debacle very clear. But I refuse to believe that there aren't others fed-up with this shit when people to this day bitch about the ending to Halo 2 (same thing). I mean for fuck's sake, at the end of Brotherhood a major character dies and it isn't dealt with at all in Revelations. How do you get away with that?

Also, Ubisoft Montreal did work on both games, even on the creative level, they just had about 6 other studios worldwide to help fuck it up. Now great, they have fully dedicated themselves to making Red Dead Redemption 2. The article I linked is fucking pathetic, with all 3 lame excuses for steering their franchise in the direction of another popular game. "Well, we had the idea first" "Well, great minds think alike" "Well, we were inspired by them". Just the height of hype right there.

EDIT:
First, it inherently promoted a dichotomy of "Aggression vs. Passivity" that taxed and tormented the player and yet also made allowance for the player to explore the way they wished to play the game. You could raise the risk of an engagement by going all out Offense, or you could minimize/eliminate risk by playing Defensive at the expense of time, time which would allow more enemies to come, adding more time.
Also what are you talking about, I played AC1 a few months ago and this is just flat out not true.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
In other words "hey it's a video game and you gotta learn things in order". Next you are going to tell me that Other M was brilliant. Also I'd care more about what Altair was going through if he wasn't a phenomenally shitty character. He has no personality other than being a dirtbag. I was told as much before I played AC1 but I was not fucking prepared for how unlikeable this guy is. And this is the guy that the series has rigorously jacked off in all three Ezio games?
In other words the story thematically described the importance of patience and mirrored this theme directly in the combat system.

Also, Altair actually has a pretty good character arc, where he goes from headstrong arrogance into a patient person, willing to work with others, and hold honor above all other attributes. Horrible voice acting may have made this change less pronounced, but its there, and I'm surprised you wouldn't notice.


The story is stupid so we shouldn't care basically. That sounds like something an "uneducated drool-bag" would say. It's not ME3 awful, I think I've made my stance on that debacle very clear. But I refuse to believe that there aren't others fed-up with this shit when people to this day bitch about the ending to Halo 2 (same thing). I mean for fuck's sake, at the end of Brotherhood a major character dies and it isn't dealt with at all in Revelations. How do you get away with that?
No the story is terrible and people aren't compelled to buy the games because of it. I'm fine with calling it bad and talking about it, but don't try to demean the player base by saying that they're being driven to buy it to complete the story. In the age of Wikipedia plot summaries, I can read how the plot ends without playing through insufferable games. Unfortunately I can't play games I find to be entertaining without sometimes sitting through insufferable plot.


Also, Ubisoft Montreal did work on both games, even on the creative level, they just had about 6 other studios worldwide to help fuck it up. Now great, they have fully dedicated themselves to making Red Dead Redemption 2. The article I linked is fucking pathetic, with all 3 lame excuses for steering their franchise in the direction of another popular game. "Well, we had the idea first" "Well, great minds think alike" "Well, we were inspired by them". Just the height of hype right there.
I'll take Biased Opinions for 200, Alex.

First I could point out how the fact that they had numerous studios working on it dilutes the influence of a single contributor. Imagine if you had to take the game your making, and make it with 6 other teams. Good luck to you, sir.

I could also skew the same article in the opposite by pointing out every time they quote the team as saying they're taking a similar or same idea in different/new directions which directly flies in the face of you're version that says "We're making Red Dead Redemption the Remix".

Again don't make hurried judgments or develop biases. If you walk into a game expecting something, you'll go out of your way to find it. If you expect a game to be entirely bad, you're going to only find the bad elements, and won't be able to actually look at it objectively.


EDIT:
Also what are you talking about, I played AC1 a few months ago and this is just flat out not true.
Good statement, glad you pointed specific examples out and adequately described how your experience refuted mine. I played the game a few months ago as well, so unfortunately your appeal to authority is kind of falling flat here, unless your Memory dick is indeed better than mine. As far as I recall, Headstrong Arrogance and spamming the X button (or whatever) gets you killed more often than not, whereas Patience (and good timing with the counter-attack and dodge move) means you will literally never even get hit. Ever.
 

vonFiedler

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In other words the story thematically described the importance of patience and mirrored this theme directly in the combat system.
Since the Other M reference was lost on you, allow me to explain. Almost every video game does this. It is literally called "Metroiding". It is not a feature of Assassin's Creed.

No the story is terrible and people aren't compelled to buy the games because of it. I'm fine with calling it bad and talking about it, but don't try to demean the player base by saying that they're being driven to buy it to complete the story. In the age of Wikipedia plot summaries, I can read how the plot ends without playing through insufferable games. Unfortunately I can't play games I find to be entertaining without sometimes sitting through insufferable plot.
Well you know what, if you are the kind of guy who cliff notes his way through literature classes and this does not affect you, good for you. But this is basic marketing and it wouldn't be a rampant tactic of triple A game devs if you were correct. They might say the story is convoluted and silly on one hand, but they still want to see where it goes. This is pretty much why cop shows are one the biggest genre in television; you dangle a little mystery in people's faces and they will watch your commercials for an hour just to see how it ends. And do you know why? Because the "ooh, that's what it was" produces endorphins. So Ubisoft is literally stringing players along for an expected high, and you argue with it yet you still play it.

Good statement, glad you pointed specific examples out and adequately described how your experience refuted mine. I played the game a few months ago as well, so unfortunately your appeal to authority is kind of falling flat here, unless your Memory dick is indeed better than mine. As far as I recall, Headstrong Arrogance and spamming the X button (or whatever) gets you killed more often than not, whereas Patience (and good timing with the counter-attack and dodge move) means you will literally never even get hit. Ever.
So you think that Assassin's Creed is this masterpiece gesamkuntswerk because you don't win by mashing buttons? What is your frame of reference, Dynasty Warriors? You acted like there were two ways to play, going slow and going fast. Well no, there is one way to play correctly, going fast and doing it right. If you get your ass knocked down you get back up and improve your game. There is no tactical advantage to allowing more enemies to swarm you, get better at predicting opponents faster.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
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I'll take Biased Opinions for 200, Alex.

First I could point out how the fact that they had numerous studios working on it dilutes the influence of a single contributor. Imagine if you had to take the game your making, and make it with 6 other teams. Good luck to you, sir.

I could also skew the same article in the opposite by pointing out every time they quote the team as saying they're taking a similar or same idea in different/new directions which directly flies in the face of you're version that says "We're making Red Dead Redemption the Remix".

Again don't make hurried judgments or develop biases. If you walk into a game expecting something, you'll go out of your way to find it. If you expect a game to be entirely bad, you're going to only find the bad elements, and won't be able to actually look at it objectively.
The bottom line is this; Ubisoft is one of the last Triple A Publishers that aren't universally reviled, even though they are doing the same things people hate Activision, EA, and Capcom for. AC1 merely exceeded expectations for them, so they spent a few years before giving us a sequel. When AC2 struck gold however, they immediately went into milking the franchise for everything it had. The bottom line is Ubisoft's bottom line, the only thing they care about is the money. That's why it should be no coincidence that the series is imitating one the most popular games in recent history. They borrowed set piece gameplay from Uncharted for Revelations and did a poor job of that too. Whatever one studio is capable of, executive influence will always have a trickle down effect.

Plus AC3 is being made by 3 studios, a different director, and a different producer. Oops!

As for your other point, the argument is usually going into something too hyped lets you down. If anything going into something thinking the worst can mellow you out and let you appreciate it for what it is. On the other hand, I'm saying that I'm not going into the next game at all. Fool me twice shame on me, but not a third time. 60 bucks would be better risked on Resident Evil 6 or Tomb Raider.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
Since the Other M reference was lost on you, allow me to explain. Almost every video game does this. It is literally called "Metroiding". It is not a feature of Assassin's Creed.
I have not played Other M, so I do not understand the reference. As for the insinuation that every game uses its combat mechanics to reinforce themes from the Narrative I can think of many situations where that's not true. I can also think of situations where it is true, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't praise Assassin's Creed for doing something good.

If you're mistaking what I'm talking about, and are instead referring to how the Combat system rewards playing it cautious, then I respond with the fact that just because something is simple and used a lot doesn't make it any less of something good. Then again, not all combat systems reward patience in the way that Assassin's Creed does. And once again, the point is not "Oh the combat system was good", it's that "They used a tried and true combat system to thematically reinforce a narrative point about the character you play as."


Well you know what, if you are the kind of guy who cliff notes his way through literature classes and this does not affect you, good for you. But this is basic marketing and it wouldn't be a rampant tactic of triple A game devs if you were correct. They might say the story is convoluted and silly on one hand, but they still want to see where it goes. This is pretty much why cop shows are one the biggest genre in television; you dangle a little mystery in people's faces and they will watch your commercials for an hour just to see how it ends. And do you know why? Because the "ooh, that's what it was" produces endorphins. So Ubisoft is literally stringing players along for an expected high, and you argue with it yet you still play it.
Really bad analogy since I'm the one who is actually going to play ACIII rather than you who is going to get the cliff notes from someone else. Then again, that comparison still fails two-fold since I don't think ACIII is going to be a classic.

Overall, my point is that I and many others who play games don't need to buy the game to get the same (or at the very least similar) "high" of clearing the suspense when we have the wiki plot summary readily available. I don't play the game because of whatever bad tactic they're using to make the game be "addicting", I play it because I enjoy the mechanics of the game itself.


So you think that Assassin's Creed is this masterpiece gesamkuntswerk because you don't win by mashing buttons? What is your frame of reference, Dynasty Warriors? You acted like there were two ways to play, going slow and going fast. Well no, there is one way to play correctly, going fast and doing it right. If you get your ass knocked down you get back up and improve your game. There is no tactical advantage to allowing more enemies to swarm you, get better at predicting opponents faster.
No I think Assassin's Creed did something worth praising. You're the one bad-mouthing the franchise, I'm just saying it's better than you seem to be saying.

Also "No Tactical Advantage" to taking a little longer to kill the enemies? Try "Never losing a single bar of health". I'd say that is a tactical advantage.


The bottom line is this; Ubisoft is one of the last Triple A Publishers that aren't universally reviled, even though they are doing the same things people hate Activision, EA, and Capcom for. AC1 merely exceeded expectations for them, so they spent a few years before giving us a sequel. When AC2 struck gold however, they immediately went into milking the franchise for everything it had. The bottom line is Ubisoft's bottom line, the only thing they care about is the money. That's why it should be no coincidence that the series is imitating one the most popular games in recent history. They borrowed set piece gameplay from Uncharted for Revelations and did a poor job of that too. Whatever one studio is capable of, executive influence will always have a trickle down effect.

Plus AC3 is being made by 3 studios, a different director, and a different producer. Oops!

As for your other point, the argument is usually going into something too hyped lets you down. If anything going into something thinking the worst can mellow you out and let you appreciate it for what it is. On the other hand, I'm saying that I'm not going into the next game at all. Fool me twice shame on me, but not a third time. 60 bucks would be better risked on Resident Evil 6 or Tomb Raider.
The Bottom Line is you're passing disparaging judgments on content you haven't seen yet. I've never had Sheep Brain to eat, but I'm not going to immediately judge that it's food not worth buying. As a food-enthusiast, I would go in with a level and clear head with no bias. Any critic in the world will tell you this is the optimal mind-set to go in with. Any negative bias at all will be reflected in your judgment.

I mean most of your complaints have been valid and I don't disagree with them, I just disagree with your assertion that this franchise doesn't deserve praise.
 

vonFiedler

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You are connecting dots that aren't there. You are romanticizing. Even the narrative itself of "you gotta learn to be a better assassin this time" is crap because your leader tells you that right at the beginning. Altair is told to learn something, we are told that he is told to learn it, then we are told that he learns it. That is crap narrative and it has nothing do with how you gain new abilities and weapons like you do in any video game, or how you can fight fast and win fast or fight slow and be safer. The only different as you have stated is that by fighting cautiously more guards will eventually join the fight making fighting slow a flawed strategy. There, your thematic combat has folded in on itself. The lesson the characters tell us is to be cautious, but the gameplay tells us to be reckless and use skill to make up for it just like Altair acted at the start of the game.

Really bad analogy since I'm the one who is actually going to play ACIII rather than you who is going to get the cliff notes from someone else. Then again, that comparison still fails two-fold since I don't think ACIII is going to be a classic.
No, I'm done. I'm not gonna get the cliff notes version. It's not worth it and it wouldn't have the same effect. At the same time you really don't seem to understand how an analogy works, I'm not literally talking about classic literature I'm talking about a habit that you admitted to doing.

Hey look, let's talk about a franchise I in the past have fucking loved. Soul Calibur. It was once one of my favorite fighting games. But I won't buy another copy as long as the makers are as cartoonishly sexist as they are right now. When a developer shows a clear trend towards bad habits, why should I have an open mind every single time they want me to throw down 60 bucks? It's called a vote of no confidence. There has to be some franchise you have lost all faith in. Final Fantasy? Sonic the Hedgehog? M. Night Shamylan? Assassin's Creed wore out it's welcome with me and I'm done. If anyone else wants to go cold turkey this October they need not do it alone.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
The only different as you have stated is that by fighting cautiously more guards will eventually join the fight making fighting slow a flawed strategy.
Then I stated it poorly. The description was intended to say that playing cautious adds time on to the battles making the player dislike playing cautious initially, it does not make battles endless. However, as the player progresses, he learns (as Altair "re-learns") patience will reward you immensely, recklessness will get you killed. So you as the player will learn how to "be a proper Assassin" simply by playing the game. If you think this is romanticization, then so be it. We'll agree to disagree there. I can't force you to come to the same conclusion.

And by all means don't buy it/rent it if you don't think it's worth your time, I'm just dissuading you from passing judgments on quality when you can't know. Using your bias to make calls on whether or not you want to do something is one thing, using bias to judge something's quality is entirely another.


There's other stuff I wanted to say, but I didn't pay close attention to what you were saying earlier and responding now would just confuse everything and it's not any discussion that would really be of any value.
 

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