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Attacking Types In October

Discussion in 'Pokémetrics' started by X-Act, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    Some of these (like special rock) are ranked high because they're so damn hard to take advantage of that even pokes with that weakness can excel.

    That's what makes this data a little bit counter-intuitive. Still, useful stuff to take note of.

    Flying is ranked very well, but with brave bird/drill peck on so few pokemon and air slash being a generally sub-par attack (and again, not widely distributed), there's little way to take advantage of it, and thus a lot of flying-weak pokemon able to succeed.
  2. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    Thanks X-Act, you've provided ANOTHER interesting read for us starkers.

    Grass moves being so weak kinda makes you wonder why Skymin is causing an uproar. There are better users of Air Slash, and Seed Flare apparently doesn't cut it in OU.
  3. scorchedsky

    scorchedsky

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    Fire Blast and Seed Flare have the same accuracy and PP, while Seed Flare has the 80% chance to drop Sp Def. These numbers can act as a sort of correction factor, ie damage per BP special fire = 4.61 / 30, whereas for special grass it's 3.31 / 30. This leads us to...

    Two turns of FB = 120 BP * (4.61 dmg% / 30 BP) * .85acc * 2turns = 31.348
    Two turns of Seed Flare = 120 BP * (3.31 dmg% / 30 BP) * .85acc + 120 BP * (3.31 dmg% / 30 BP) * .85acc * 1.68 = 30.161

    So if Skymin didn't get STAB on Seed Flare, it seems it'd almost be better off running Fire Blast...
  4. dr4g0n

    dr4g0n

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    Cheers, X-Act. Another useful tidbit of information for those interested.

    lol, Ghost > Ground
  5. CHENN

    CHENN

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    No surprise of Physical Rock moves being high up there. Thanks for the great guide X-Act!
  6. Raistmagic

    Raistmagic

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    This is really excellent.
    Great work!!
  7. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    The four top moves to use in ubers are all special, and 3 of them hit Psychic super effective.

    And Flying in OU is better than Dragon by a long shot. Maybe Special Salamance should have HP Flying.

    Good job X-Act!!
  8. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers The mega, the fairy, the genie — who lives and who dies?
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    Outrage is still better than HP Flying.
  9. Green Mage

    Green Mage

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    Normal is better than poison. I'd imagine that poison is looking for a place to hang a noose right about now.

    Thanks X-Act, that was really helpful. I'm going to change my UU team a bit.
  10. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    If you want to know the average damage that a particular move deals using a particular stat, you can use my Excel sheet for that.

    You can also roughly compare moves with each other by doing the following.

    Say we need to see which of Dragon Pulse or HP Rock would deal more damage on average in Standard. This is done by calculating the percentage for Special Dragon by 90 (Dragon Pulse's base power) and the percentage for Special Rock by 70 (HP Rock's base power). The larger one deals more damage.

    So:

    For Dragon Pulse: 3.48 x 90 = 313.2
    For HP Rock: 4.29 x 70 = 300.3

    Hence Dragon Pulse would deal slightly more damage than HP Rock on average in Standard.

    On a bit of an unrelated note, maybe that's why Technician Ancientpower is sooo good on the latest CAP creation...
  11. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    Wow didn't know fire did so well, considering the amount of bulky waters, dragons and Heatran...
  12. wildfire393

    wildfire393

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    Also consider the number of non-Heatran steels: Jirachi, Bronzong (never runs heatproof), Metagross, Scizor, Forretress, Skarmory, Lucario, Magnezone. Just about every team runs 1-3 of these, and Fire is the only type that hits all of these super-effectively, and hits Scizor and Forretress for double super effective damage. Add this to the fact that many of these pokemon have high defense and low special defense and Special Fire espeically seems like a great consideration.
  13. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    Wow X-Act, where do you find the time to do all these things!? :)

    I kinda like petrie911's suggestion. Would it be possible to have a list based on the most popular move of each type? The problem would be choosing which move to use, of course, for example, Flamethrower vs Fire Blast. You'd probably have to take the average power of them based on their relative popularity.

    Anyway, this is great stuff. I blame Scizor, Skymin, Heracross, Forretress, Weavile, Breloom, and every steel except Heatran and Empoleon.

    I used to have a lot of fun by sticking Hidden Power Fire on random Pokémon that Scizor would normally counter, Celebi being one of my favourites, and other times Alakazam. Now, however, I won't bother with the surprises and I'll just be open about using Fire attacks.

    I do, however, have a question about these. Do the lists include only the Pokémon in that tier, or does it include all the tiers below (ex: does the OU list include Empoleon?)
  14. Shelcario

    Shelcario

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    Nice X-Act, it's because of these amazing programs and creations of yours that makes you so popular among the smogonites. Good job!
  15. Alakapimp

    Alakapimp All washed up
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    this is great work, it shows how different the game would be if attacks were different types, and there were new attacks for different types
  16. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    It would be possible, but it would take a lot of time.

    Every tier include every Pokemon that is used, even if it is used only once in a month.
  17. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    The list does not give weight to the degree of useage any 1 pokemon gets compared to another then?
  18. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    Of course it does. If Abra is used 0.000000000005% of the time, then the average percentage is skewed by 0.000000000005%. It's insignificant, but it's there.
  19. IronGross

    IronGross

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    Poison, THE worsed attacking type in the game. At least it's good defensively...
  20. Objection

    Objection

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    Even then, poison would be rendered redundant by virtually every pokemon getting Flamethrower.
  21. Black Buddha

    Black Buddha

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    CLearly shows why Ninetales should carry HP Rock and Hitmontop Stine Edge...
  22. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan 〉λ=
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    A couple more questions sprang into my head today.
    First off, does anyone have any idea why physical Electric moves do so much more damage than special ones? Is it because things that resist Electric have high Special Defense?

    How do immunities factor into this? Are they just counted as zero damage? If so, does that affect what the average is compared to what it would be using higher-powered moves?
  23. Chou Toshio

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    Apologies x-act, I should have known (or read the OP better). In any case, it's very useful as everyone has said.
  24. Darth Meanie

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    It doesn't do that much better. That's where a lot of attacks are bunching up, but the actual numerical difference is .07
  25. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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    In general, physical attacks in Standard and ubers tend to deal more damage than special ones due to the existence of Blissey.

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