Ladder Balanced Hackmons

The problem with Pursuit trapping Sturdinja is Focus Sash. There's a reason Sturdinja has lived through all the conceivable tactics thrown against it.

Regardless, Ghost types are much better Mold Breaker Trappers since Sturdinja can't touch them. Watch out for the -ate Shedinja though.

My best bet would always be Infestation. Once you start using it, you'll know it's fairly easy to predict a Shedinja switch.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Aerilate being banned isn't set in stone. Rayquaza-Mega isn't that good. Sure, it's very powerful. It might even be one of the best offensive threats in the metagame. But most sets are walled by any Registeel, Aegislash, or Shedinja. If you're having that much trouble with it, (which doesn't surprise me, since nothing on your team resists Flying...), you should try something like Prankster Registeel. Soundproof physical walls, like Mega Aggron or Mega Slowbro, also work well, unless you're facing one of those pesky Techno Blast ones.

As for Shedinja, it might be a good idea to run things with partial trapping moves, like Magma Storm or Infestation. Alternatively, run hazards with enough offensive pressure to prevent Defog and Rapid Spin.

And for Poison Heal walls, run Entrainment on your Magic Bounce Giratina if you're not already. That should help.
the problem with mega ray, is that registeel doesn't stop it. max special attack modest boomburst with life orb almost 2hkos max spc def regi. to be honest, i think ilates should be "suspected" before finalizing any form of ban on rayquaza. remember folks, nothing hard walls protean but non imposter chansey/fur coaters which both are uncommon, and illate was supposed to be suspected before mega rayray was announced even. so tbh, i think protean and ilate should be suspected before we even CONSIDER banning a pokemon. and if rayray is still considered broken even when these abilities are gone, THEN we can suspect it.

or at least, that is what i think the best case scenario would be.
 
The problem with Pursuit trapping Sturdinja is Focus Sash. There's a reason Sturdinja has lived through all the conceivable tactics thrown against it.

Regardless, Ghost types are much better Mold Breaker Trappers since Sturdinja can't touch them. Watch out for the -ate Shedinja though.

My best bet would always be Infestation. Once you start using it, you'll know it's fairly easy to predict a Shedinja switch.
Not only is the sash broken on the first hit you use against it (It activates before Sturdy), but holding a focus sash is just asking for sacred fire to kill you. LumCycle (or safety goggles when sand and/or hail teams become somewhat popular on the ladder) are far, FAR better alternatives and focus sash shouldn't even be considered.

the problem with mega ray, is that registeel doesn't stop it. max special attack modest boomburst with life orb almost 2hkos max spc def regi. to be honest, i think ilates should be "suspected" before finalizing any form of ban on rayquaza. remember folks, nothing hard walls protean but non imposter chansey/fur coaters which both are uncommon, and illate was supposed to be suspected before mega rayray was announced even. so tbh, i think protean and ilate should be suspected before we even CONSIDER banning a pokemon. and if rayray is still considered broken even when these abilities are gone, THEN we can suspect it.

or at least, that is what i think the best case scenario would be.
Agreed. Without Aerilate or Protean, while Mega Rayquaza would still be outstanding, I can't imagine it being nearly as hard to wall. Mixed contrary would probably be the next best set, and it's still really nothing new since we've had Pokemon that could do that stuff in the past with about the same degree of efficiency. I also think contrary is broken with the new EV system so in my mind even that set should be discarded, but a ton of people probably disagree with me on that so I won't go into detail (It's also not a priority with -ates and protean around).

Also much to my sadness Chansey without Fur Coat can't wall it. Espeed does a fuckton and even with 4 / 252 SpD an invested Boomburst will sting like hell.
252+ SpA Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 255-301 (39.7 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

You know something is broken when it can do 46% to chans with a neutral special attack...
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
the problem is official oras will likely implement everything that the 1.3 patch has, therefore there wont be a "lower patch version" for oras, which means the demo will be the closest thing to bh acceptance we can get in terms of oras.

correct me if im wrong plz ;~; i really want to be.
 
What are these new local checks? If it starts disallowing any moves and/or any ability in-game, then I think we might need to disregard that because banning those would literally defeat the purpose of the tier.
 
I'm ambivalent towards 510 staying or not if we find out that the has tier literally become impossible in-game, but I see no reason for Team Preview to go. Almost every meta, even 1v1, has it (only Randbats, Challenge Cup, and No Team Preview OU don't have it AFAIK). And besides, it's not like giving any mon any move and any ability also gives you the ability to turn off Team Preview.

I think the original reason for not having it was because it wouldn't give any real information, which may have been true when BH was first conceived, but that's not true in the slightest anymore.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
gale wings mega rayquaza is pretty good too. only ilates, and a select few of steel and rock types can stop it with a choice band
what's the point of gale wings mega ray? aerilate extremespeed hits almost as hard as brave bird/dragon ascent, except it has higher priority and doesnt cause recoil/lower your stats. also, aerilate lets you use stuff like fake out and boomburst. the only real advantages of gale wings are priority roost (pretty useless for ray considering its poor bulk and defensive typing) and priority oblivion wing/hurricane, which really isnt worth the trade off, especially if you're running choice band.
 
what's the point of gale wings mega ray? aerilate extremespeed hits almost as hard as brave bird/dragon ascent, except it has higher priority and doesnt cause recoil/lower your stats. also, aerilate lets you use stuff like fake out and boomburst. the only real advantages of gale wings are priority roost (pretty useless for ray considering its poor bulk and defensive typing) and priority oblivion wing/hurricane, which really isnt worth the trade off, especially if you're running choice band.
If you already have two aerilate Ray Rays. also Adament Choice Banded Dragon Ascent OHKOs or THKOs almost everything, and it's unexpected. plus the defensive drops can really hurt imposters.
 
It's really sad that this format has devolved into "I already have 2 overpowered Aerilate Mega Rays, GUESS I HAVE TO USE GALE WINGS MEGA RAY!".

The mere fact that "overpowered" is an applicable term for it in a tier where everything is overpowered is pretty telling of just how stupid Mega Rayquaza really is.
 
I've had success using a special Gale Wings Mega Rayquaza, setting up with the ridiculous power boosting move that is Tail Glow and then sweeping/healing with Oblivion Wing. A Focus Sash helps him set up, King's Shield is nice against -ilate priority users, and Earth Power hits all three types that resist flying. I haven't had a chance to fully test King's Shield, but bulky rock and steel types are only really problems if they run prankster, since Earth Power will usually outspeed anything you'd want to use it on.
 
Last edited:
It's really sad that this format has devolved into "I already have 2 overpowered Aerilate Mega Rays, GUESS I HAVE TO USE GALE WINGS MEGA RAY!".

The mere fact that "overpowered" is an applicable term for it in a tier where everything is overpowered is pretty telling of just how stupid Mega Rayquaza really is.
I've said this before, but...

It's not Mega Rayquaza. It's Aerilate.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
The mere fact that "overpowered" is an applicable term for it in a tier where everything is overpowered is pretty telling of just how stupid Mega Rayquaza really is.
i will just ignore your beginning post mainly due to the fact one persons claim really doesn't form an general bias on an argument, especially where in this tier abusing more then one of the same/similar abilities tends to give good results (double imposter, double protean etc, etc.) making that entire point pointless to mention.

something i just want to make clear, is that "the mere fact that overpowered is a applicable term for a tier where everything is overpowered" is incorrect in MANY ways. first and furthermost, this isn't a new concept to the teir, and we always have had pokemon so powerful that the meta had to shift dramatically to handle it, and heck, it still does to this very day. actually we have a few currently. we have had chansey and shedinja being the MAJOR influencers, and even back with the 510 ev limit non existant, ph was a dominant ability to the point that it was very hard to take down various pokemon (xernias, kyogre, regigigas, etc etc) we do have overpowered shit in this teir, look at chansey and shedinja, they single handedly mold our teir. but at the same time, we keep THOSE because they fix the metagame to make it balanced(ish). taking them away results in a metagame no one will like.

second, and this is a bit of a "nitpick" on my part. bh is by no means a "overpowered meta" mainly because when everything is overpowered, then nothing technically is. when two powerful objects collide, they both just stop...they dont break through eachother and proceed to destroy everything in their paths. and bh is no different.

and lastly, as uselesscrab said, its mostly aerialate that is doing this, though thats solely because rayrays offenses make it the PERFECT aerialater, since all aerialaters have powerful moves that are easy to block given you have access to ways to block them. if aerialates gone, then it will just end up like the other protean users, completely overpowered and next in line to be banned.

like...again...im still questioning why everyone is screaming overpowered on mega rayquaza...barring aerialate, it CANT run mixed, without really fucking over your team to imposter in the process. i mean, im all for banning mega ray, but whats the point when we are just about to suspect the MAIN REASON ITS BROKEN. if ilates stay, then ill be all for banning mega ray. and heck, im all for it now too, its not like i even USE mega ray.
 
Last edited:

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Karutobi's Mega-Ray, which has swept multiple teams and isn't Aerilate.

Your move.
did i NOT just mention the fact that proteans next in line in terms of brokeness?

karutobi's ability is protean-aka, i already pointed out that protean is already broken to the point of banning once ilate is gone.

so...technically your argument is allready shot down. when someone can effectively run a mega ray set that doesn't use protean or ilate, THEN mega ray can be considered broken. because mega mewtwo x and y will both dominate the tier once illate is gone. thats a fact. since their main checks are illate.

again, i will ask a third time, why the hell are people overhyping this thing? its strong on both sides yes...but its slow for protean standards, making revenge killing it with say...the 2 best proteaners in the teir rediculously easy. and protean even with really effective checks, still dominate the teir. and proteans main defensive checks are chansey and shedinja themselves, so "mixed coverage" doesnt mean shit when both walls couldnt give a damn about which side you attack from.
 

Pikachuun

the entire waruda machine
did i NOT just mention the fact that proteans next in line in terms of brokeness?

karutobi's ability is protean-aka, i already pointed out that protean is already broken to the point of banning once ilate is gone.
Yeah I missed that, my bad.
 
As I mentioned a bit earlier, Kyogre-Mega is a wonderful Toxic Healer. Equip it with King's Shield/Scald/Moonblast/Quiver Dance with the spread 252 HP / 48 Def / 204 + SDef and you're checking a shitton of mons quite easily.
 
Pikachuun, my move? Okay.

Protean Mega Ray is fine. But to be honest, I'd rather use Mega Mewtwo Y or X unless I'm running mixed. Additionally, saying that something "swept multiple teams" doesn't mean it's broken.

And for a convenient segue, this random hide tag contains an example:

For instance, I've swept multiple teams with this bizarre thing:

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Dragon Ascent
- V-create
- Infestation / King's Shield

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-176480519
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-176461004

which appears pretty idiotic, and truly is, but is extremely fun to use. I was going to post this anyway, but thought I would get laughed at (which I probably deserve anyway, lol).

The concept is that if you can build up enough defense boosts with Dragon Ascent and V-create, you don't have to worry about -ates as much anymore, which is really convenient. You can also run King's Shield if you want, but I prefer Infestation to beat Shedinja and also trap unsuspecting Steel-types, things like Magic Bouncers switching in to take your Spore and random Registeels, Mega Aggrons and Steelixes. The speed tier of Aerodactyl-Mega is also extremely useful to beat the Mewtwos and Mega Gengar.

It's not too easy to beat Imposters, but if you Spore them and then use Infestation, you should be able to wear them down over time.
 
oh oh when do I get to pledge in
Cactus, at this point we need to look at the common factor of your sets: You

Ban CactusCacti!

Also, to weigh in on the actual argument, Mega-Ray is what's broken. Aerilate was never an issue until Ray entered the fold. This thing has enough attack to 2hko almost any pokemon in the meta, and has the same special attack for breaking through anything that would otherwise wall it. It is easily the most destructive force I have seen playing BH, and really needs to go, in my opinion.
 
I think -ates are more broken, personally, but Mega Ray will show how stupid it is once -ates are gone (and I'm 99% sure -ates will be banned) and Mega Ray is still the most dominant offensive thing in the tier, running Contrary or Adaptability or even something else.
 
By the way, anyone know when the -ate suspect poll or test is happening? I've been kind of holding off on making major modifications or revisions to my teams since whether I'd need to prepare for -ate or not would have a drastic impact on how those teams are built.

Also, yeah, Aerilate Ray is really exacerbating the problem. You pretty much need as hard of a counter as you can get against a well played one, and then you need something else to cover it just in case Ray is carrying the right move(s) to remove your counter (such as Earth Power or Blue Flare for Soundproof Aggron).


Unrelated, the fact that the new weather abilities end on switch/ability change means Drizzle and Drought are not outclassed nor are Sandstream and Snow Warning completely shafted. I'm not sure if I'd like Desolate Lands/Primordial Sea to have lasted beyond switch/ability change or not though. Oh well, at least people mistakenly think I'm incompetent when they see Drizzle Kyo-P on my experimental rain team.
 

verbatim

[PLACEHOLDER]
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderatoris a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
My timing's been off, I think the appropriate time to hold the suspect test will be this coming weekend. It is important to me that no mon be explicitly banned from BH, and I'd be willing to look at harsher measures towards the iates if that were to allow that. If you have any concerns regarding the future of the metagame following the upcoming vote, suggestions for poll options that will adequately address the current issue (i.e., -ate clause), or opinions on just how broken/unbroken you think current pokemon are based on the -iates, please post.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top