BH Balanced Hackmons

[motherlove]

Talking about how it currently works on showdown, both Normal type moves and non normal type moves get the boost, the only difference being that they only show the boosts on normal type moves.

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Egg Bomb and Flying press do the same damage, double edge does significantly more.

 

[Champion Leon]

Talking about how it currently works on showdown, both Normal type moves and non normal type moves get the boost, the only difference being that they only show the boosts on normal type moves.

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Egg Bomb and Flying press do the same damage, double edge does significantly more.

So it would do 3 base power more damage, but Flying Press can still hit some Pokémon harder. If Flying Press doesn't seem attractive, perhaps Sacred Fire, or Shift Gear, it truly depends on the rest of your team, and what you want it to counter.
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Kartana @ Meadow Plate/Life Orb
Ability: Triage
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- Horn Leech

I use this set to surprise foes by trapping, sleeping, setting up, and sweeping with priority. The great thing is that it heals from its main attack, so you won't have to worry about running out of HP for more Belly Drums for when you switch. If you fear something resists Grass, like Flying, Grass, or Dragon, you can use Anchor Shot for 120 base power after STAB.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

So it would do 3 base power more damage, but Flying Press can still hit some Pokémon harder. If Flying Press doesn't seem attractive, perhaps Sacred Fire, or Shift Gear, it truly depends on the rest of your team, and what you want it to counter.
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Kartana @ Meadow Plate/Life Orb
Ability: Triage
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Anchor Shot
- Spore
- Belly Drum
- Horn Leech

I use this set to surprise foes by trapping, sleeping, setting up, and sweeping with priority. The great thing is that it heals from its main attack, so you won't have to worry about running out of HP for more Belly Drums for when you switch. If you fear something resists Grass, like Flying, Grass, or Dragon, you can use Anchor Shot for 120 base power after STAB.

Of course, this is all given that they don't have Psychic Surge/Dazzling/Queenly Majesty, are a steel type, have unaware/Spectral Thief/Haze/Topsy-Turvy/Heart Swap, aren't a grass type or have comatose, don't have Taunt, or don't have a Fire-Type Move/any special move. Honestly, I love Belly Drum but this set is pretty bad, it just has so many counters against it. And seriously, don't use Meadow Plate. Please don't. If anything, use Grassium-Z.

 

[Deleted User 91486]

If you want a belly drum sweeper, try a combination with sitrus berry and unburden on, for example, kyurem-black. With unburden and a dragon (or fighting) type move, this even improofs itself, and it isn't stopped by anti-priority.

 

[motherlove]

If you want a belly drum sweeper, try a combination with sitrus berry and unburden on, for example, kyurem-black. With unburden and a dragon (or fighting) type move, this even improofs itself, and it isn't stopped by anti-priority.

Ya or just with Kartana since we're talking about it and it's better. Good physical bulk to take prio, can't get spored and stab sunsteel.

 

[Rumors]

Or use Slaking. STAB Extreme Speed and immunity to Spectral Thief since 2002!

...granted, not really Imposter-proofable aside from Unburden.

 

[Deleted User 91486]

Is there any counterplay against scrappy final gambit blissey without having to lose a mon?

While it was actually possible to play around innards out (by predicting the switch-in, poisoning them, killing them with a high-HP regen mon like Zygarde-complete after some previous damage), it seems to be impossible to play around this - in team preview you only see that the opponent has a blissey, but not which moveset/ability it has (and most blisseys are imposters), so that you don't know that you have to lead with your contrary sweeper or fightinium Z user which can kill that blissey with superpower or all-out pummeling before it uses final gambit. And when you lead with the wrong pokemon , you will lose one pokemon to this chansey, and since you don't see what sets your opponent is running, you can't know what of your pokemon should be sacrificed.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

Just found an old set I used to like. I don't use it anymore, but it seems imposter is a lot better now so this could be a tad bit more useful. It only works the turn Kyogre is sent out, but, it could still function as an imposter proof wall.



Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Moonblast
- Steam Eruption
- Slack Off


Basically it's a simple set, you set up and attack. The cool thing is, illusion doesn't wear off after you go Primal and even if someone hits you, but even then it isn't fooling anyone. The point is is to defend against I poster mons, else it's not that good.

 

[GmU pokeboss9]

Slaking is weak, Normal is a bad offensive but great defensive typing.

+6 252+ Atk Slaking Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 421-496 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 damage to Tina.


If there would be no Zygarde, Belly Drum would be better.

+6 252+ Atk Kartana Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 580-684 (91.1 - 107.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
The strongest Sunsteel ingame is a coinflip.

+6 252+ Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete on a critical hit: 602-709 (94.6 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
The Strongest Non STAB is favorite on crit only.


Even against Kyreum-B Zygarde holds his line;

252+ Atk Kyurem-Black Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Zygarde-Complete: 552-652 (86.7 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Fur Coat takes +6 Dragon Hammer.


Alot of creative sets fail to break either Zygarde or Giratina.
Paired with a Steel type or bulky P-Kyogre almost everything is getting walled.
And Chansey waits in the back

I think the current meta is one of the simpliest BH metas ever.
There are like 12 pokes worth using with 36 different moves.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Is there any counterplay against scrappy final gambit blissey without having to lose a mon?

While it was actually possible to play around innards out (by predicting the switch-in, poisoning them, killing them with a high-HP regen mon like Zygarde-complete after some previous damage), it seems to be impossible to play around this - in team preview you only see that the opponent has a blissey, but not which moveset/ability it has (and most blisseys are imposters), so that you don't know that you have to lead with your contrary sweeper or fightinium Z user which can kill that blissey with superpower or all-out pummeling before it uses final gambit. And when you lead with the wrong pokemon , you will lose one pokemon to this chansey, and since you don't see what sets your opponent is running, you can't know what of your pokemon should be sacrificed.

You click an attack and ko it; blissey is what we like to call "frail." Failing this, sack your least important Pokemon, as unlike innards out you have complete control over what dies. You can also use sturdinja or uturn to a chansey/insert high hp Pokemon to not actually sack anything.

 

[Rumors]

In addition to what QT said, Ghosts can remove its ability first and you can also simply use Substitute. Focus Sash survives as well.

 

[Zovrah]

So i needed a physical sweeper for my team and I immediately thought of MMX. And so I set off...


Mewtwo-Mega-X @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spectral Thief
- Psychic Fangs
- High Jump Kick

This is what I started with. I figured it would be enough to be improofed. Steal chansey's boosts, ohko with a super effective move. So I went to the calc just to make sure,and I was amazed at how much that didn't do. I wouldnt ohko, or come close, and would die to the opposing spectral thief. So I altered the set. If i wanted to OHKO using this exact moveset, I had to minimize my defense with only 184. I couldn't do that, I would never survive a physical hit. Eventually after a long string of calculations, I ended um with this set.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Acrobatics
- Psychic Fangs
- High Jump Kick


I think this is the only way to actually be imposter proof. If anyone, ANYONE has a suggestion,please speak out.

 

[Kadabrium]

In addition to what QT said, Ghosts can remove its ability first and you can also simply use Substitute. Focus Sash survives as well.

final gambit has 8pp, so substitute cannot stall it out.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Considering that Final Gambit causes the user to faint even if it runs into a substitute, you don't really need to "stall it out" for anything more than the one hit.

 

[ElMustacho]

So i needed a physical sweeper for my team and I immediately thought of MMX. And so I set off...


Mewtwo-Mega-X @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spectral Thief
- Psychic Fangs
- High Jump Kick

This is what I started with. I figured it would be enough to be improofed. Steal chansey's boosts, ohko with a super effective move. So I went to the calc just to make sure,and I was amazed at how much that didn't do. I wouldnt ohko, or come close, and would die to the opposing spectral thief. So I altered the set. If i wanted to OHKO using this exact moveset, I had to minimize my defense with only 184. I couldn't do that, I would never survive a physical hit. Eventually after a long string of calculations, I ended um with this set.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Acrobatics
- Psychic Fangs
- High Jump Kick


I think this is the only way to actually be imposter proof. If anyone, ANYONE has a suggestion,please speak out.

Marshadow offers a little better defensive typing (switch it on Normal/Fighting attacks). You also get STAB on Ghost/Fighting; that's something Gengar was only dreaming last gen.
Marshadow @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Extreme Speed
- Drain Punch / Close Combat / High Jump Kick
- Belly Drum

This guy is the old Mega-Banette self imposter proof set of this gen. The given Def Evs maximize bulk, while ensuring the OHKO of the imposter with Spectral thief.
+6 252 Atk Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 252 HP / 236 Def Eviolite Marshadow: 708-834 (100.5 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You can survive the imposter's Spectral Thief at +0, but you can't Belly Drum then.

 

[Deleted User 91486]

Considering that Final Gambit causes the user to faint even if it runs into a substitute, you don't really need to "stall it out" for anything more than the one hit.

the problem is, that there is a glitch on showdown (already reported) that causes the Final Gambit user to survive if it hits a substitute. I abused this myself with a chansey against an opposing substitute user. Originally I just wanted to gain momentum by destroying the sub and getting a free switch-in into a scarfed Imposter, but as I realized that it is glitched, I just used Final Gambit again and again, until he had too few HP for another sub xD

 

[Digital Butterfly]

Tiebreaker (Mewtwo-Mega-X) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shell Smash
- Close Combat
- Icicle Spear / Spectral Thief / Icicle Crash
- Sunsteel Strike / Spectral Thief

I thought I'd bring in everyone's favorite weird strategy into the game. Good ol' Sash-Smash. Thanks to STAB, Smash, and its ridiculous power, Close Combat hits like a truck, and devastates even the likes of Registeel, and maybe Solgaleo at times. Icicle Spear/Icicle Crash is a great way to obliterate Rayquaza, Deoxys, and you can even stretch your luck and nail Zygarde. Sunsteel Strike can smash Shedinja, Xerneas, and the occasional Unaware. If you're feeling lucky, you can run Spectral Thief and feed off of Chanseys that try to copy you. Just be wary that if you don't run Spectral Thief, you'll get 2HKO'd by Sunsteel Strike.

 

[Rumors]

Well then, Substitute will be viable choice once its working properly. Until then, get the sub up before Blissey comes in? I mean, if you see non-Imposter Blissey, what else is it going to do besides Final Gambit? Every other Chansey set wants Eviolite, which means Blissey is outclassed for everything else.

 

[SadisticMystic]

Of course, the thing about having a sub up in advance is that if it is Imposter, it will fail to broadcast that fact, so you'll still be left guessing which case it is.

 

[Champion Leon]

Of course, this is all given that they don't have Psychic Surge/Dazzling/Queenly Majesty, are a steel type, have unaware/Spectral Thief/Haze/Topsy-Turvy/Heart Swap, aren't a grass type or have comatose, don't have Taunt, or don't have a Fire-Type Move/any special move. Honestly, I love Belly Drum but this set is pretty bad, it just has so many counters against it. And seriously, don't use Meadow Plate. Please don't. If anything, use Grassium-Z.

Triage is for anti-Extreme Speed... if you prefer I could use Sunsteel Strike over Anchor Shot, and Unburden with Sitrus.

Kartana resists Water Shuriken, Pixelate Fake-Speed, Normal-type Fake-Speed, etc. while immune to Spore.

Priority Prankster Haze, Topsy Turvy, Heartswap are outsped by Triage, Sunsteel Strike breaks Unaware, and if you think it needs another attack, you can replace Spore with Close Combat.

I guess if you switch Kartana after a KO into Kyogre you can expect a switch, Belly Drum and then have Leech Life to hit opposing Grass types or Drain Punch to hit Steel types, if using Triage...
Now with Unburden, Sitrus and Close Combat it is Imposter Proof.

Kartana @ Sitrus Berry
Unburden
Max EVs
Adamant
-Belly Drum
-Sunsteel Strike
-Spore/Close Combat
-Power Whip

The advantage is that it hits Dazzling users, but now it falls to Prankster Haze, Topsy Turvy, and Heart Swap, not to mention Triage Drain Punch Heracross or any priority user like Triage Oblivion Wing Rayquaza.

 

[Kadabrium]

Now that innards out has been banned, how are you offense teams dealing with the combined onslaught of gengar and regigigas?
It's almost like seeing the opponent carrying blaziken and mega salamence against an ou team. Common ways of offense to check setup sweepers (sash, prankster, imposter, innards when it existed) straight up fails against at least one of them (read: in most cases both),
and to make it even more scary these two can already provide all the offensive pressure the opponent will ever need even unboosted,
to the point that they can just run 4 bulky support pivots to get them to set up.
Gengar sets up on anything slower than it and then just snowballs, while regigigas sets up on anything not stronger than specs rayquaza boomburst (which is basically everything unboosted except maybe v-create).
I'm currently already seeing specific situational counters being used like magic bounce zygarde and unaware revelation dance mewtwo.

 

[Rumors]

You know, I thought this used to be a "niche set that only fits my teams", but it might function well to deal with Gengigas cores. Or at least cripple them so the rest of your team can deal with them.


Gengar-Mega-Y (Giratina) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Glare
- Knock Off


This set can deal with Gengar by bopping it with Glare, even if they Normalize Giratina. Once paralyzed, Gengar is very easily to deal with. And if Giratina isn't Normalized, it can then proceed to remove its plate, forcing most Gengar sets to be unable to do anything but stare menacingly at it. Meanwhile, Regigias usually can't do much to Giratina without a lot of boosts, so Gira can just scoot it out with a Whirlwind. Nailing Gigas with either Glare or Knock Off on the switch will shut it down pretty hard. Getting rid of its orb and paralyzing something else forces opponents to suffer one way or another if they have Heal Bell. Recover-esque moves makes this Giratina hard to take down and lets it function if it can't get toxic on itself, but can be replaced with other utility if desired. Glare can be swapped for Nuzzle if desired.

The advantage of this set is it jacks with many other things too. Fast and frail sweepers, like APS Mewtwo, cannot stand paralysis, for example. Giratina's often unforseen Knock Off can also catch valuable items by surprise. This thing needs some team support to function 100%, like hazards for extra Whirlwind damage, but it's a jerk in general even on its own.

 

[Deleted User 91486]

I also want to share a set, for registeel:
Registeel @ Choice Scarf / Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: all 252 except speed
Sassy Nature
-Switcheroo
- Metal Burst
- Destiny Bond
- Milk Drink

This set has been proven to be very useful against both defensive and offensive teams.

Against defensive teams, it screws them over with Switcheroo and then takes a key mon like PH Kyogre or Regigigas down with destiny bond. Thanks to its steel typing, Registeel is immune to poison, so that it can hold a Toxic Orb without getting poisoned and isn't punished for switcherooing an item onto a Poison Healer. If it gets a Toxic oOrb, it can also trick it later onto another pokemon to poision it, bypassing Magic Bounce/coat.
A Lum Berry can be used instead of the scarf to deactivate opposing poison heal, but in most cases the scarf is more useful, since it cripples most poison healers too, disabling their set-up moves and forcing them to switch after Spore or Leech Seed.

Against offensive teams, again the scarf can be tricked to cripple one mon, and switcheroo renders Mega Gengar useless, since it can't touch my Giratina or it's Imposter anymore after losing the Spooky Plate. Registeel survives a +2 spooky judgement, so that it can switcheroo even against a shell smash gengar after its setup and after losing prankster to entrainment. With d-bond it kills a single dangerous sweeper and Metal Burst "counters" attacks that don't kill Registeel.
When using Destiny Bond, then Metal Burst and then Destiny Bond again, and so on, you can have the Destiny Bond up permanently until you run out of PP, because Prankster Destiny Bond outspeeds the opponent's attacks, while Metal Burst is always slower due to Registeel'S low speed. That secures either the kill, or lures the opponent to boost even more, because he wants to avoid both the destiny bond and the metal burst, so that scarfed Imposter Blissey can not only revenge kill it easily but also attempt a counter-sweep. Most notably example is Regigigas, which is OHKOed by its own facade after enough boosts even without the status effect boost.

 

[ElMustacho]

I also want to share a set, for registeel:
Registeel @ Choice Scarf / Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: all 252 except speed
Sassy Nature
-Switcheroo
- Metal Burst
- Destiny Bond
- Milk Drink

This set has been proven to be very useful against both defensive and offensive teams.

Against defensive teams, it screws them over with Switcheroo and then takes a key mon like PH Kyogre or Regigigas down with destiny bond. Thanks to its steel typing, Registeel is immune to poison, so that it can hold a Toxic Orb without getting poisoned and isn't punished for switcherooing an item onto a Poison Healer. If it gets a Toxic oOrb, it can also trick it later onto another pokemon to poision it, bypassing Magic Bounce/coat.
A Lum Berry can be used instead of the scarf to deactivate opposing poison heal, but in most cases the scarf is more useful, since it cripples most poison healers too, disabling their set-up moves and forcing them to switch after Spore or Leech Seed.

Against offensive teams, again the scarf can be tricked to cripple one mon, and switcheroo renders Mega Gengar useless, since it can't touch my Giratina or it's Imposter anymore after losing the Spooky Plate. Registeel survives a +2 spooky judgement, so that it can switcheroo even against a shell smash gengar after its setup and after losing prankster to entrainment. With d-bond it kills a single dangerous sweeper and Metal Burst "counters" attacks that don't kill Registeel.
When using Destiny Bond, then Metal Burst and then Destiny Bond again, and so on, you can have the Destiny Bond up permanently until you run out of PP, because Prankster Destiny Bond outspeeds the opponent's attacks, while Metal Burst is always slower due to Registeel'S low speed. That secures either the kill, or lures the opponent to boost even more, because he wants to avoid both the destiny bond and the metal burst, so that scarfed Imposter Blissey can not only revenge kill it easily but also attempt a counter-sweep. Most notably example is Regigigas, which is OHKOed by its own facade after enough boosts even without the status effect boost.

Wouldn't Pecha Berry be better than Lum Berry? That way you can heal only PH users.
Also Imposter Blissey vs Regigigas; at +5 Blissey has chances of OHKOing the original. Before it doesn't.
+5 252+ Atk Regigigas Facade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 379-447 (89.3 - 105.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
If Adamant. Else at +6.
+6 252 Atk Regigigas Facade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 394-465 (92.9 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Meanwhile the original Regigigas can Spore and deal with that.
+5 252 Atk Regigigas Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Regigigas: 690-813 (96.6 - 113.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
Blissey is rather underwhelming, as Regigigas can take the imposter at +5 (when it's unboosted Regigigas sets up on it) or immediately switch out to an Unaware user, like Audino.
252 Atk Regigigas Facade vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Unaware Audino-Mega: 91-108 (22.1 - 26.3%) -- 9.4% chance to 4HKO
You are far better with Fur Coat stuff and/or Core Enforcer. Alternatively remove the Toxic Orb and fire Purify, and Regigias will return to PU material.

 

[Digital Butterfly]

Although there are so, so many recovery moves, I find Shore Up (and in some cases Roost) are the most useful. I run Shore Up on every last one of my Pokemon, because in the case that Sandstorm approaches (Here's lookin' at you, Tyranitar) my Pokemon can also benefit from it. It's crazy, but it really does work. (sometimes)