Battle Tree Discussion and Records

NoCheese said:
Focus Sash Cloyster can actually do a lot of work. Shell Smash once and then sweep away. And it pairs very nicely indeed with Garchomp. It's really nice for grinding since it plays FAST!

Dragonite or Salamence with Aegislash is also a pretty nice combo.

Obviously, when it comes to Water-types, my preference is for Suicune, but that's sadly absent right now. That's where we're going to need to do more experimentation. Interestingly, Dragonite / Chansey / Mega Slowbro (my most successful singles team in the Maison) is legal, but will require lots of work to obtain prebank (HA chaining, breeding Seismic Toss onto Chansey, buying a Slowbronite, possible bottle capping). Plus, it is a pretty slow team, so not the best choice for quick grinding.

Mega Scizor (or even regular Scizor, if you use another Mega) is also a staple, so that's another fine option. In short, it seems like you are already on the right path!
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No way am I wasting time on getting a 6 IV Multiscale Dragonite. Sash Cloyster seems risky considering Trick Room and priority. I'm guessing you have to run Ice Shard on it. Is there a way I can try to pair Cloyster with Salamence and then that with Mega Scizor?
 
Tazonite said:
No way am I wasting time on getting a 6 IV Multiscale Dragonite. Sash Cloyster seems risky considering Trick Room and priority. I'm guessing you have to run Ice Shard on it. Is there a way I can try to pair Cloyster with Salamence and then that with Mega Scizor?
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Please reconsider your attitude towards yourself before attempting the Tree. With a mental state like that, you won't get anywhere before losing. When building long streaks in the Tree, you have to consider everything that can go wrong and plan around it, even if it involves PP stalling an entire move just to avoid the possibility of a double crit.
 
Tazonite said:
I am super upset that the only way to face the returning characters is by getting through these waste-of-time battle facilities, but I've gotten at least a decent win streak before.
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Tazonite said:
I never said it was a bad way to waste your time, but I still feel it's a waste of time overall.
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Tazonite said:
No way am I wasting time on getting a 6 IV Multiscale Dragonite.
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seriously even though you're talking about the best way to proceed in the Tree you're also seeming to be bitching a lot of it being a "waste of time" which doesn't really go over well with the people here so i'd strongly suggest you clean up the way you post here. a lot of people take this kinda thing seriously and having someone come in and complain about what a "waste of time" it is is kinda shitty tbh. i know HeadsILoseTailsYouWin already addressed it but I want to add to it because this is literally the third post containing that "waste of time" phrase
 
On the subject of Cloyster specifically, I've never run it with Ice Shard. Yes, priority can beat it, but it tends to come up a bit less than one might fear. Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast and either Surf or Razor Shell (Naughty or Adamant, depending) is what I'd consider the "standard," but you do have the option to cut a move for Ice Shard if you really want.

As to Cloyster / Mega Salamence / Scizor, you lose the handy option to switch out of an Electric attack into an immunity you gain with Garchomp, but you will be able to find some success with such a squad, absolutely.
 
The primary issue with Mega Scizor is that Bug Bite, his most spammable non-BP move that tends to be run on Maison Sets due to technician, is a Move Tutor move. This limits his effectiveness. He is still very very far from ineffective.

I have HA Dratinis at 5IVs in Beast Balls, so of course I'm biased about the fact that it would take a long time to get, since it wouldn't for me.

I am trying to build around a Z-Conversion Porygon-Z. The debate, for me, starts between Modest and Timid. Timid is more consistent for getting the Z-Conversion up on more targets, but Modest can basically already outspeed any relevant threats at +1 with an appropriate amount of speed investment with some better kill potential.

So the question becomes, what is better? More consistently able to setup, or more effective once it sets up? I was thinking the latter because Z-conversion is a one time thing.

I do like the benefits of a 1 turn setup to become extremely threatening.

Then it came to supporting Porygon-Z. Honestly, I truly cannot wait for Gliscor to pair with it. Gliscor pairs extremely well with Porygon-Z by either stalling out threatening moves, removing certain threats, or simply coming in on either Fighting at the beginning if the threat exists OR when Electric when she needs to switch.

Until then, most of my plans seem to have holes.
 
Kietharr said:
So I've found a few tricks to multi-battles, which are a lot like Battle Royal in that you have three pokemon trying to kill you, except one is ostensibly an ally and sometimes does helpful things.

1. Don't get wiped. Once one side is down, your ally will get focused. Your "ally" will sometimes randomly protect when it's under no threat whatsoever as you get focused. Protect on both mons is a necessity to stall out bad situations. The longer the fight goes on, the more likely your partner is to do something useful (in theory).
2. The AI has the same rules you do so if you wipe out one opposing trainer's two pokemon quickly you can force your partner to focus targets with you on the remaining side. Dragon gem...err Dragonium-Z Hydreigon is probably the most reliable delete key you can run prebank. Have fun getting it to evolve with that gen 5 level curve though.
3. You and your partner are two separate teams. You can both use one Z move and one mega per battle.

Building off that, scouting a good partner with Z-moves and/or megas makes life way easier. Anabel is probably the best boss trainer to scout because she can carry Z-move Raikou or Entei and either White Herb or Mega Latios with it. Some of the lesser trainers run auto-weather leads that you can play off of as well. After a streak of 40 you can see random trainers with legends too, anyone can be scouted. I'm pretty sure that you can only have one trainer per class scouted at a time though, as re-scouting bosses you already have changes their teams based on what they have when you scout them. Hydreigon/M-Metagross or maybe Aegislash is probably a good two mon core for this, but what's ideal definitely depends on the partner you have available.
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What do u think of Mega Kang (and Talonflame ig) Kiawae? Who would partner well with him?
 
Altissimo said:
seriously even though you're talking about the best way to proceed in the Tree you're also seeming to be bitching a lot of it being a "waste of time" which doesn't really go over well with the people here so i'd strongly suggest you clean up the way you post here. a lot of people take this kinda thing seriously and having someone come in and complain about what a "waste of time" it is is kinda shitty tbh. i know HeadsILoseTailsYouWin already addressed it but I want to add to it because this is literally the third post containing that "waste of time" phrase
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Come on, there's no need to be offended over a few statements in my post. If it isn't a waste of time for you, then more power to you. For me, it's tedious. Because grinding for a HA Dratini, hatching all of those eggs, and making sure it has Multiscale and IVs and everything- it does take up a lot of time. There isn't really any badge that says "moderator" on your name so I have less reason to take this seriously, as it seems like you're just triggered over something I said. I've since moved on the topic of my posts here to trying to set up a Gen 7 Battle Tree team, and I think should be all that matters.

NoCheese said:
On the subject of Cloyster specifically, I've never run it with Ice Shard. Yes, priority can beat it, but it tends to come up a bit less than one might fear. Shell Smash / Icicle Spear / Rock Blast and either Surf or Razor Shell (Naughty or Adamant, depending) is what I'd consider the "standard," but you do have the option to cut a move for Ice Shard if you really want.

As to Cloyster / Mega Salamence / Scizor, you lose the handy option to switch out of an Electric attack into an immunity you gain with Garchomp, but you will be able to find some success with such a squad, absolutely.
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I might just have to use Garchomp. I'd prefer Surf because missing sucks. Generally if Cloyster misses any of its moves, it becomes a waste of a teamslot and dies soon. I'm guessing I'd have to run Protect for Z-moves and scouting. If there are any more ideas for a Water type, I'd like those, even though I'm perfectly open to Cloyster. I'm curious about a few Mons in Maison, while we're at it:

How are Mimikyu and Wishiwashi?
 
Are there any resources discussing datamining of AI behavior? I wanted to create a lightweight web simulator of the Tree to test things without having to go through the breeding process over and over, but I wasn't able to find any material on what the AI does/does not do.
 
Tazonite said:
Come on, there's no need to be offended over a few statements in my post. If it isn't a waste of time for you, then more power to you. For me, it's tedious. Because grinding for a HA Dratini, hatching all of those eggs, and making sure it has Multiscale and IVs and everything- it does take up a lot of time. There isn't really any badge that says "moderator" on your name so I have less reason to take this seriously, as it seems like you're just triggered over something I said. I've since moved on the topic of my posts here to trying to set up a Gen 7 Battle Tree team, and I think should be all that matters.
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im not offended or "triggered" at all and the fact that that's how you interpreted my post indicates to me that you're just pissed at being called out but whatever

marbleduck said:
Are there any resources discussing datamining of AI behavior? I wanted to create a lightweight web simulator of the Tree to test things without having to go through the breeding process over and over, but I wasn't able to find any material on what the AI does/does not do.
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as far as I know the AI was never even datamined in previous gens so the likelihood of any info existing in gen 7 is ... questionable. research in the maison thread tends to suggest that gen 6 Maison AI (and probably the implication is it carries over to gen 7 I'd presume, but I don't yet have sun/moon so i can't check for myself) is that the AI will consistently go for the weakest attack that is guaranteed to KO your Pokémon (taking into account IVs/EVs, natures, and type effectiveness, but not accuracy). If no attack is a guaranteed KO, it seems their move selection is random. I think, though I haven't done enough battling to know for sure, that if no attack is a guaranteed KO on your Pokémon, and the enemy has non-damaging moves, they use those kind of randomly as well (as several people have experienced with for instance Aurorus using Sandstorm, Hail, Sandstorm). I believe also, if a KO is not guaranteed and they have a stat boosting move that boosts their primary attack stat, they'll use that pretty consistently until a KO is guaranteed. Things with status-inflicting moves seem to like to use them on the first turn, as Trick Roomers.
This is all from pretty limited experience so I might be wrong in a few places. There's a lot of discussion about Maison AI tendencies in that thread, though, so you could look there.
 
Altissimo said:
im not offended or "triggered" at all and the fact that that's how you interpreted my post indicates to me that you're just pissed at being called out but whatever
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I suppose I can admit I'm mildly agitated that you chose to respond to it when I moved on to discussing how to get started on the Tree anyway.
 
I figure now is an appropriate time to, essentially, restate my statement from early in this thread:

If there is a certain pokemon you would like bred, it is entirely likely I have already done so and can provide it for you. The reasons for this are:

1) I have quite a few. I've already put 150 hours into my Pokemon Moon version game.
2) I can use the ones I have to get the ones I don't since I have 35+ 5IV breeds with HA and Egg Moves in beast balls. I've spent a lot of time putting up excess breedjects on the GTS and being bombarded with the pokemon I ask for.
3) I consider myself a relatively kind person and this community, in general, is incredibly supportive of everyone's attempts to theorycraft and create impressive win streaks. I am no exception.

So, if you have a strategy, and it calls for something specific and relatively difficult, it never hurts to ask if anyone can help instead of dismissing it outright as too long to be worth it. In the grand scheme of things, the few hours it would take is *nothing* compared to the length of some of those mammoth streaks from ORAS.

Given the suspected increase in difficulty and ever increasing numbers of matchups and threats, the theorycrafting will likely be more encompassing and difficult than before. So everyone's experiences and thoughts are helpful for generating the best team synergies in the most expeditious way possible.

Anyway, carry on! Please don't hesitate to ask for anything. It will always be worth my time.
 
Hmmm, I may take you up on that offer once I'm actually into the postgame. Would you be able to breed me a Close Combat Pinsir at some point in the distant future?
 
Smuckem said:
Hmmm, I may take you up on that offer once I'm actually into the postgame. Would you be able to breed me a Close Combat Pinsir at some point in the distant future?
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I believe that Heracross is the only parent for close combat and is not available in the near future. So, I suppose it depends how distant distant is.
 
Three or four months from now--of course, I could breed for that myself in OR and then Bank it over, I'm just being a lazy fuck.

It wouldn't be necessarily for building part of a solid team: it would be building a solid team (most likely in Doubles), then removing a piece and placing a copy of Pinsir4 in its place, just to see how far behind the original team this would subsequently fall.
 
MQJinx said:
I've been theorymonning a Garchomp/Scizor core and am trying to decide on my third mon. Any suggestions?
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I'd suggest a Tapu Fini. That thing is amazingpants in Battle Tree.

I adopted HeadsILoseTailsYouWin's Tapu Fini to my own Timid Fini as a specs set, and it worked great, even with average (Decent rating) special attack and defense IVs.

Tapu Fini @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Timid Nature
-Moonblast
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Grass Knot


This Pokemon can do so much for your team if you're running Dragon/Steel. It absorbs and scouts status, ice, dragon, and fire, can take neutral hits fairly well, and hits back quite hard.

Garchomp should work well with Fini since it can absorb any electric type attacks for it, while Fini eats ice and dragon all day (doesn't even risk an unlucky freeze!).
Scizor eats any poison aimed at Fini. I pp stalled Blizzards and Hydro Pumps at least twice on my way to 50 just swapping Fini and Aegislash.

Tapu Fini is such a great switch in to scout sets as a result. And it'll either KO things or bait an attack that you can swap another Pokemon into and start boosting.

The status immunity is fantastic for setting up Scizor and Garchomp Sword Dances too. The AI doesn't seem to recognize Misty Terrain sometimes. It'll drop Swaggers on you and raise your attack for you, for example, or keep trying to hit will-o-wisp and confuse ray. Yeah. Never have to worry about status conditions again.

Since you're using Garchomp though, you'll have to watch out and remember that Dragon type moves have 50% power on Misty Terrain. Not an issue when using Dragonite and Salamence since they're off the ground (They don't get the status immunity though!)I'm a dummy :c
 
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Any good partner recomendation for Multi Battles?

I was thinking of Cynthia, but then i faced Wally and his mega Gallade fucked me, so it could be interesting. Also i heard that Guzma is really good because Toxapex, but i faced him in battle 60 and he wasnt using any Toxa.

What you guys think?
 
Lystomato said:
Since you're using Garchomp though, you'll have to watch out and remember that Dragon type moves have 50% power on Misty Terrain. Not an issue when using Dragonite and Salamence since they're off the ground (They don't get the status immunity though!)
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Might be a misunderstanding here - I believe Misty Terrain halves the damage done by Dragon-type moves against grounded targets, not by grounded users.
 
Hey y'all, look what I made:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...jIy3OYCozo1kvrHC8Er3ddXJvw/edit#gid=593914963

Now you can search up a Battle Tree trainer by name and it will show you full detail about his/her roster. The only info missing is Trainer Class (not that important) and IVs- which for now, there is a field for you to guess a value.

Thanks to TRE. This was built off of his spreadsheet. For some missing formes (like Landorus and Gourgeist), I just assumed the default.

NoCheese Edit: Since it's kind of hidden, scroll right on the spreadsheet to see how to use it. You'll need to download it or save a copy.
 
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I surprisingly managed to pull off a 57-win streak in Doubles with this team in a first attempt:

Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 6 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild/Hasty Nature
- Discharge
- Wild Charge / U-turn
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot

Jolteon @ Focus Sash
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 31 Spe (Hyper trained)
Timid Nature
- Helping Hand
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Ice

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil -> Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 6 SpDef / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge / Iron Head

Gigalith @ Air Balloon or Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs (I don't precisely remember which spreads I used, so I'm making a guess): 252 HP / 106 Def / 152 Sp. Def
Careful Nature
- Wide Guard
- Protect / Toxic / anything you can think of
- Rock Slide
- Heavy Slam / Sandstorm

Tapu Koko can oneshot a surprisingly huge amount of things with Jolteon's Helping Hand. Spam Discharge and be happy. There are just a very few mons that can outspeed or speed-tie Koko (Koko should run away from Crobat. Jolteon speed-ties Aerodactyl, but he can oneshot it. Koko and Jolteon can stand one hit from its Rock Slide and kill it right after. I haven't found any Aerodactyls with Earthquake). Jolteon can help taking out most dragons and some mons with 4x Ice weakness. But should be very careful around Dragonite. Its Multiscale Ability is a pain in the ass and it won't go down after Jolteon's HP Ice and Koko's Dazzling Gleam. It will oneshot Koko with Earthquake. Koko can work really well with Gigalith and Garchomp too.

If Koko needs to run away, Garchomp can take its place first. If you stay with Jolteon in the field, it can Volt-switch the next turn (just make sure neither of the targets have protect) to Gigalith and, if Giga's holding Air Balloon, Garchomp can pull off a real nice Earthquake. It's up to you to decide if you Mega Evolve Chomp that turn or not, but I'll tell you something: Sand Veil gives a real nice advantage.

As for Gigalith, it can tank a real lot of Special Attacks with Sandstorm backup. He doesn't do much in battle, though, but at least it can keep Garchomp and itself protected. It'll mostly spam Wide Guard. It's good to know that Gigalith can pull off a Wide Guard after Protect, but he can't pull off (50/50 chance, in truth) a Protect after Wide Guard. It does real nice damage with Rock Slide and can 2-shot Rotom Fridge. Sandstorm is useful to keep your Sp. Def boost after your Sandstorm gets replaced with another weather or it runs out.
 
I realized I forgot to say this earlier.

A few notes for those planning to use Truant Durant:

  • If you use Entrainment on the turn the AI Megas, and you move first, then Truant will activate on that turn. Make sure to keep this in mind to avoid a situation where you don't pay much attention and switch out anyways (which happened to me, but I fortunately turned it around)
  • Wishiwashi and Mimikyu cannot have their abilities changed while they are in Schooling and Decoy forms. Not sure when they're outside of it. You cannot pass Truant to them easily.
 
Collector Togami said:
I realized I forgot to say this earlier.

A few notes for those planning to use Truant Durant:

  • If you use Entrainment on the turn the AI Megas, and you move first, then Truant will activate on that turn. Make sure to keep this in mind to avoid a situation where you don't pay much attention and switch out anyways (which happened to me, but I fortunately turned it around)
  • Wishiwashi and Mimikyu cannot have their abilities changed while they are in Schooling and Decoy forms. Not sure when they're outside of it. You cannot pass Truant to them easily.
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Thank you for the information. I have been thinking of adding Toxapex into my Singles Team for stalling purposes, I am currently thinking of using a stalling team for now. Once Pokebank is released, I have been considering of adding Toxapex into the Durant combination in case if the plan fails. Toxapex resists most of Wishiwashi's and Mimikyu's moves. :)
 
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