Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[kneeshoeshoe]

Super Doubles streak of 572 wins featuring Oranguru / Mega Gardevoir / Buzzwole / Arcanine.

Disclaimer: I'm not very good at doing writeups, please forgive me if I fail to elaborate on certain points.

The losing battle: UWFW-WWWW-WWW7-PQ97

#573 (Togedemaru / Glaceon / Snorlax / Lickilicky)

- My poor decisions probably played a role in the loss, but it was mostly hax that did me in.
- Glaceon scored two freezes on my Pokemon
- I read horribly into protects
- Snorlax carried Fissure which instantly KO'd Buzzwole, my only reliable answer to it
- Seeing Togedemaru and Glaceon in the lead = setup TR, never expected a U-turn into Snorlax which ended up outrunning everything in my team

After getting my hands on Gardevoir's mega stone I immediately sought to build a Battle Tree team around it. Surprisingly, not many teams on the Battle Maison leaderboard used Gardevoir. It has amazing potential in an obscenely powerful spread move, and solid base 165 SpA to back it up. However with base 100 speed, I felt that it needed either fast Tailwind support or Trick Room support to be able to do anything at all. Eventually, I settled with Oranguru as its TR partner after seeing Josh C achieving great success with it. Although base 100 speed seems overkill for a supposed TR attacker, I get around this either by 1) using Oranguru's lower speed to help Gardevoir fire off an attack earlier; or 2) not use TR at all, depending on the opposing leads.

For the team spreads:

Oranguru @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 236 Def / 68 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect

Oranguru

Quite arguably the best Trick Room setter in the tree thanks to Instruct, allowing Gardevoir to launch what is effectively a 324 BP spread attack (double Hyper Voice = 2*90*1.2*1.5). Although its typing sucks, it somewhat fits alongside Gardevoir since they don't share any weaknesses, making it easier for me to predict which mon the AI will target on turn 1 and act appropriately.

I ran Mental Herb for about 200 battles until I felt that Oranguru is hurt more by status hax (mainly freezes, and to a lesser extent paralysis and confusion) than getting taunted; which is when I made the switch to Lum Berry and never regretted it. In fact, through 573 battles Oranguru has never been taunted on turn 1, be it by sheer luck or whatever; it has been hit by untimely freezes and full-para more times than I can count though. Another reason for running Lum Berry over Mental Herb is because setting up TR isn't always a necessity for this team. I've been through many battles where I just clicked Instruct + Hyper Voice on turn 1 and managed to pull off easy wins without ever setting up Trick Room.

As for the EV spread, it most definitely can be improved but my spread hasn't given me any major problems thus far. 204 HP EVs hit a HP stat of 191 which minimises residual damage. 68 SpD EVs allow it to survive a Bug Buzz from max SpA Vikavolt4 and max SpA Expert Belt Ribombee4, with the rest of the EVs thrown into Def to somewhat make up for its mediocre physical bulk. Investing 12 SpA EVs would guarantee a KO on Salazzle with Psychic, but I found it mostly unnecessary because of Hyper Voice's spread damage. Oranguru is only OHKO'd by very few attacks, and it is important to recognise these opposing leads in order to preserve it for its partners.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace > Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Gardevoir

Gardevoir doesn't really need much SpA investment given its already skyhigh 165 base SpA; even less so considering Oranguru allows it to get off two Hyper Voices in a single turn. Investing heavily into bulk also ensures more security in clicking Hyper Voice on Turn 1, as Gardevoir has a higher chance of surviving and getting two more Hyper Voices off on Turn 2. Max HP EVs give it 175 HP which is coincidentally a number that reduces residual damage. I gave Gardevoir 148 Def EVs with the intention of surviving a Bullet Punch from Mega Scizor, but it also heavily bolsters Gardevoir's low physical bulk, allowing it to stay on the field longer to destroy more lives. I didn't invest in SpD at all because after running some calcs in turskain's calculator, I realised that Gardevoir already lives almost every special attack in the tree, with very few exceptions such as (ironically) opposing Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Beam and Porygon-Z's Hyper Beam, and certain Z-Moves. The remaining EVs of course went into SpA, which is more than sufficient to take out many opposing threats in a single turn.

Trace is a really good opening ability, providing several uses:
- Copying opposing Intimidate is probably the most useful feature.
- Getting Download SpA boosts is rather rare, but also useful.
- It also gives a chance to scout for Soundproof from the likes of Exploud, Electrode and Kommo-o, allowing me to plan appropriately in advance.
- There was one game where I traced Solar Power from a Charizard and used non-mega Psyshock to KO another mon, but that's really situational.

Some calcs

108+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 100-118 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (effectively OHKO with Instruct)
108+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade-Mega: 198-234 (138.4 - 163.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
108+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 234-276 (136.8 - 161.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
108+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 168 HP / 168 SpD Vikavolt: 115-136 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (effectively OHKO with Instruct)
108+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 180-216 (124.1 - 148.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I chose Psyshock over Psychic to give Gardevoir more options against special tanks such as Florges, Regice and Blissey. HP Ground is meh, it doesn't get any guaranteed KOs against 4x ground weak Pokemon which resist both STABs, but it's Gardevoir's best option to take out Magnezone, Heatran, and Metagross, if Arcanine isn't available in the back.

Gardevoir being faster than Oranguru is a slight hindrance. If Gardevoir protects on Turn 1 while TR goes up, Instruct would call up Protect on Turn 2 due to Oranguru moving before Gardevoir can use Hyper Voice. This may or may not turn out well, given that the 2nd protect only has a 50% chance of working, but if it does, Gardevoir gets to attack while simultaneously under Protect's effect. Due to this, I almost always click Hyper Voice on Turn 1, then use Instruct on Turn 2 to finish off both foes.

Buzzwole @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 116 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hammer Arm
- Leech Life
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

Buzzwole

The bulkier, slower, and uglier version of Pheromosa, Buzzwole's role is simply to provide coverage for the team, most notably taking out opposing Steel types which resist both of Gardevoir's STAB attacks. The EVs allow Buzzwole to survive Volcarona-3 Overheat and Alakazam-1 Psychic (just a random benchmark I settled upon without having to sacrifice too much Atk EVs). Buzzwole already has good enough physical bulk, amplified further with Intimidate support from Arcanine; hence I didn't invest in Def at all. Giving it more SpD also maximises Assault Vest's 1.5x boost.

Buzzwole at minimum speed hits 75, which still leaves it outsped by a substantial number of treemons under Trick Room. I chose Hammer Arm as Buzzwole's Fighting STAB to somewhat get around its speed issue; it has good base power, albeit only 90% accuracy, and I didn't want to deal with stat drops from Superpower. Leech Life gives reliable recovery on top of being another STAB, and the elemental punches round off its coverage. Buzzwole hits everything neutrally at best, except Alolan Marowak, which is hopefully taken care of by Gardevoir and Oranguru before it has a chance to touch Buzzwole.

Arcanine @ Firium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 140 Def / 92 SpA / 20 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 14 Spe
- Burn Up > Inferno Overdrive
- Extreme Speed
- Toxic
- Protect

Arcanine

I'm a big fan of the Burn Up Arcanine idea from Josh C's Sharpedo/Lele team. With this team struggling heavily against bulky Steel types, Arcanine filled the perfect role to take on certain Steel types which Buzzwole cannot reliably counter, such as Mega Mawile, Mega Metagross and Scizor, while also providing valuable Intimidate support.

36 SpA EVs would be enough for Burn Up to OHKO Mega Metagross, but after 150 battles or so I decided to invest more into SpA to instead make typeless Arcanine guarantee an Inferno Overdrive KO on Mega Metagross. The extra SpA investment has also come in useful in getting more OHKO Z-Move nukes against other non-Fire weak Pokemon. 92 SpA also just barely guarantees an OHKO on all Crobat sets with Inferno Overdrive. The SpD spreads are leftovers from running a different spread with lower SpA investment, with the rest of the EVs dumped into physical bulk. I was originally planning to use this as a temporary spread for test runs and ended up settling with it for the long run. 14 speed IVs let Arcanine outrun all Scizor sets outside of Trick Room and OHKO them with Burn Up.

Running Firium Z effectively gives Arcanine the chance to use two Burn Ups before switching out. While you may think otherwise, there are battles where I use Burn Up before the Z-Move; these situations occur usually when 130BP Burn Up is more than enough to secure the KO, or when I decide to lose Arcanine's Fire type immediately to give it more survivability against whatever threat it's facing off. Using non-STAB Inferno Overdrive after using Burn Up is usually avoided at all costs unless when absolutely necessary, but it has been useful on some occasions when Arcanine cannot afford to switch out.

I ran Helping Hand for a short while before switching to Toxic to give Arcanine a "universal" option against any bulky Pokemon that isn't Poison- or Steel-type. With Arcanine's bulk and Protect, he often can Toxic-stall out annoying tanks in the absence of its other teammates. Extreme Speed is mandatory on this team in my opinion - it has reasonably high BP for a priority move and can pick up missed KOs from Gardevoir and Buzzwole.

A Trick Room team usually doesn't have much viability for a long streak since the TR setter is prone to double targetting and hax in general, so I'm actually pretty pleased to get over the 500s. I still prefer playing with Pheromosa and Tapu Lele, but this team does provide a neat challenge for those looking to try something less straightforward.

I also made a QR code for the team!

 

[Worldie]

kneeshoeshoe I'm very curious, how do you play M-Garde in a Trick Room setup? 100 base speed is a lot and will be undersped by basically everything. Is the plan you use "Setup TR vs faster pokes, leave as it is vs slower ones"?

 

[Marowak2000]

Super Doubles streak of 572 wins featuring Oranguru / Mega Gardevoir / Buzzwole / Arcanine.

Disclaimer: I'm not very good at doing writeups, please forgive me if I fail to elaborate on certain points.

The losing battle: UWFW-WWWW-WWW7-PQ97

#573 (Togedemaru / Glaceon / Snorlax / Lickilicky)

- My poor decisions probably played a role in the loss, but it was mostly hax that did me in.
- Glaceon scored two freezes on my Pokemon
- I read horribly into protects
- Snorlax carried Fissure which instantly KO'd Buzzwole, my only reliable answer to it
- Seeing Togedemaru and Glaceon in the lead = setup TR, never expected a U-turn into Snorlax which ended up outrunning everything in my team

After getting my hands on Gardevoir's mega stone I immediately sought to build a Battle Tree team around it. Surprisingly, not many teams on the Battle Maison leaderboard used Gardevoir. It has amazing potential in an obscenely powerful spread move, and solid base 165 SpA to back it up. However with base 100 speed, I felt that it needed either fast Tailwind support or Trick Room support to be able to do anything at all. Eventually, I settled with Oranguru as its TR partner after seeing Josh C achieving great success with it. Although base 100 speed seems overkill for a supposed TR attacker, I get around this either by 1) using Oranguru's lower speed to help Gardevoir fire off an attack earlier; or 2) not use TR at all, depending on the opposing leads.

For the team spreads:

Oranguru @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 204 HP / 236 Def / 68 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect

Oranguru

Quite arguably the best Trick Room setter in the tree thanks to Instruct, allowing Gardevoir to launch what is effectively a 324 BP spread attack (double Hyper Voice = 2*90*1.2*1.5). Although its typing sucks, it somewhat fits alongside Gardevoir since they don't share any weaknesses, making it easier for me to predict which mon the AI will target on turn 1 and act appropriately.

I ran Mental Herb for about 200 battles until I felt that Oranguru is hurt more by status hax (mainly freezes, and to a lesser extent paralysis and confusion) than getting taunted; which is when I made the switch to Lum Berry and never regretted it. In fact, through 573 battles Oranguru has never been taunted on turn 1, be it by sheer luck or whatever; it has been hit by untimely freezes and full-para more times than I can count though. Another reason for running Lum Berry over Mental Herb is because setting up TR isn't always a necessity for this team. I've been through many battles where I just clicked Instruct + Hyper Voice on turn 1 and managed to pull off easy wins without ever setting up Trick Room.

As for the EV spread, it most definitely can be improved but my spread hasn't given me any major problems thus far. 204 HP EVs hit a HP stat of 191 which minimises residual damage. 68 SpD EVs allow it to survive a Bug Buzz from max SpA Vikavolt4 and max SpA Expert Belt Ribombee4, with the rest of the EVs thrown into Def to somewhat make up for its mediocre physical bulk. Investing 12 SpA EVs would guarantee a KO on Salazzle with Psychic, but I found it mostly unnecessary because of Hyper Voice's spread damage. Oranguru is only OHKO'd by very few attacks, and it is important to recognise these opposing leads in order to preserve it for its partners.

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace > Pixilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Protect

Gardevoir

Gardevoir doesn't really need much SpA investment given its already skyhigh 165 base SpA; even less so considering Oranguru allows it to get off two Hyper Voices in a single turn. Investing heavily into bulk also ensures more security in clicking Hyper Voice on Turn 1, as Gardevoir has a higher chance of surviving and getting two more Hyper Voices off on Turn 2. Max HP EVs give it 175 HP which is coincidentally a number that reduces residual damage. I gave Gardevoir 148 Def EVs with the intention of surviving a Bullet Punch from Mega Scizor, but it also heavily bolsters Gardevoir's low physical bulk, allowing it to stay on the field longer to destroy more lives. I didn't invest in SpD at all because after running some calcs in turskain's calculator, I realised that Gardevoir already lives almost every special attack in the tree, with very few exceptions such as (ironically) opposing Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Beam and Porygon-Z's Hyper Beam, and certain Z-Moves. The remaining EVs of course went into SpA, which is more than sufficient to take out many opposing threats in a single turn.

Trace is a really good opening ability, providing several uses:
- Copying opposing Intimidate is probably the most useful feature.
- Getting Download SpA boosts is rather rare, but also useful.
- It also gives a chance to scout for Soundproof from the likes of Exploud, Electrode and Kommo-o, allowing me to plan appropriately in advance.
- There was one game where I traced Solar Power from a Charizard and used non-mega Psyshock to KO another mon, but that's really situational.

Some calcs

108+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro-Mega: 100-118 (49.5 - 58.4%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (effectively OHKO with Instruct)
108+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade-Mega: 198-234 (138.4 - 163.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
108+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 168 HP / 0 SpD Kingdra: 234-276 (136.8 - 161.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
108+ SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 168 HP / 168 SpD Vikavolt: 115-136 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (effectively OHKO with Instruct)
108+ SpA Gardevoir-Mega Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 180-216 (124.1 - 148.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I chose Psyshock over Psychic to give Gardevoir more options against special tanks such as Florges, Regice and Blissey. HP Ground is meh, it doesn't get any guaranteed KOs against 4x ground weak Pokemon which resist both STABs, but it's Gardevoir's best option to take out Magnezone, Heatran, and Metagross, if Arcanine isn't available in the back.

Gardevoir being faster than Oranguru is a slight hindrance. If Gardevoir protects on Turn 1 while TR goes up, Instruct would call up Protect on Turn 2 due to Oranguru moving before Gardevoir can use Hyper Voice. This may or may not turn out well, given that the 2nd protect only has a 50% chance of working, but if it does, Gardevoir gets to attack while simultaneously under Protect's effect. Due to this, I almost always click Hyper Voice on Turn 1, then use Instruct on Turn 2 to finish off both foes.

Buzzwole @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 116 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hammer Arm
- Leech Life
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

Buzzwole

The bulkier, slower, and uglier version of Pheromosa, Buzzwole's role is simply to provide coverage for the team, most notably taking out opposing Steel types which resist both of Gardevoir's STAB attacks. The EVs allow Buzzwole to survive Volcarona-3 Overheat and Alakazam-1 Psychic (just a random benchmark I settled upon without having to sacrifice too much Atk EVs). Buzzwole already has good enough physical bulk, amplified further with Intimidate support from Arcanine; hence I didn't invest in Def at all. Giving it more SpD also maximises Assault Vest's 1.5x boost.

Buzzwole at minimum speed hits 75, which still leaves it outsped by a substantial number of treemons under Trick Room. I chose Hammer Arm as Buzzwole's Fighting STAB to somewhat get around its speed issue; it has good base power, albeit only 90% accuracy, and I didn't want to deal with stat drops from Superpower. Leech Life gives reliable recovery on top of being another STAB, and the elemental punches round off its coverage. Buzzwole hits everything neutrally at best, except Alolan Marowak, which is hopefully taken care of by Gardevoir and Oranguru before it has a chance to touch Buzzwole.

Arcanine @ Firium Z
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 140 Def / 92 SpA / 20 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 14 Spe
- Burn Up > Inferno Overdrive
- Extreme Speed
- Toxic
- Protect

Arcanine

I'm a big fan of the Burn Up Arcanine idea from Josh C's Sharpedo/Lele team. With this team struggling heavily against bulky Steel types, Arcanine filled the perfect role to take on certain Steel types which Buzzwole cannot reliably counter, such as Mega Mawile, Mega Metagross and Scizor, while also providing valuable Intimidate support.

36 SpA EVs would be enough for Burn Up to OHKO Mega Metagross, but after 150 battles or so I decided to invest more into SpA to instead make typeless Arcanine guarantee an Inferno Overdrive KO on Mega Metagross. The extra SpA investment has also come in useful in getting more OHKO Z-Move nukes against other non-Fire weak Pokemon. 92 SpA also just barely guarantees an OHKO on all Crobat sets with Inferno Overdrive. The SpD spreads are leftovers from running a different spread with lower SpA investment, with the rest of the EVs dumped into physical bulk. I was originally planning to use this as a temporary spread for test runs and ended up settling with it for the long run. 14 speed IVs let Arcanine outrun all Scizor sets outside of Trick Room and OHKO them with Burn Up.

Running Firium Z effectively gives Arcanine the chance to use two Burn Ups before switching out. While you may think otherwise, there are battles where I use Burn Up before the Z-Move; these situations occur usually when 130BP Burn Up is more than enough to secure the KO, or when I decide to lose Arcanine's Fire type immediately to give it more survivability against whatever threat it's facing off. Using non-STAB Inferno Overdrive after using Burn Up is usually avoided at all costs unless when absolutely necessary, but it has been useful on some occasions when Arcanine cannot afford to switch out.

I ran Helping Hand for a short while before switching to Toxic to give Arcanine a "universal" option against any bulky Pokemon that isn't Poison- or Steel-type. With Arcanine's bulk and Protect, he often can Toxic-stall out annoying tanks in the absence of its other teammates. Extreme Speed is mandatory on this team in my opinion - it has reasonably high BP for a priority move and can pick up missed KOs from Gardevoir and Buzzwole.

A Trick Room team usually doesn't have much viability for a long streak since the TR setter is prone to double targetting and hax in general, so I'm actually pretty pleased to get over the 500s. I still prefer playing with Pheromosa and Tapu Lele, but this team does provide a neat challenge for those looking to try something less straightforward.

I also made a QR code for the team! If you don't wish to log into Pokemon Global Link, I have a direct image here (hope this isn't against the rules):

500 wins of a mega stone that was only introduced last week.. U must get through a lot of battles! ':\
Iv been waiting ages for mega-lopunny so I can pair her with sylveon as pixilate hyper voice is strong, it's not unusual to be faced against a double resist though and since Oranguru doesn't give much offensively how do you switch around? I found a few teams that have an annoying mix of steel and ground types half of which have the study ability!

 

[Worldie]

Getting plenty of wins in a row is not *THAT* slow if you have animations disabled and have enough experience to know what to do most of the matches, honestly.

For curiosity, seeing M-Lopunny sports unresisted stab, what are you actually having issues against, and with what set? Assuming you are Fakeouting turn one, a Low Kick should easily delete more or less every Sturdy user, unless you are running a fully supportive M-Lopunny moveset in which case I doubt combining it with Oranguru is a good plan.

 

[kneeshoeshoe]

kneeshoeshoe I'm very curious, how do you play M-Garde in a Trick Room setup? 100 base speed is a lot and will be undersped by basically everything. Is the plan you use "Setup TR vs faster pokes, leave as it is vs slower ones"?

Yeah against slower Pokemon I typically just click Instruct + Hyper Voice immediately. Gardevoir almost always survives a hit due to the heavy defensive investment; if the AI targets Oranguru instead it's usually even better since Oranguru takes hits better.

I guess another way of putting it is I don't see my team as a primary Trick Room team, but rather it uses Oranguru as an option for setting up TR when I need it. Arcanine and Buzzwole aren't completely useless outside of TR so it works for me.

Knowing the trainer's set in advance also helps a lot in making the decision whether to setup TR or not.

 

[Brucolac]

EDIT: This strategy sadly doesnt work, as kneeshoeshoe pointet out. Lightningrod will also catch Electrify. (I long for the day this changes (to nerve Lightningrod) or there is a Pokemon with Electrify and Mold Breaker in a new generation and am prepared to take this team out of oblivion to spread fear and loathing.)


Hello,
one more time i want to introduce a team which i probably will never play, because i dont have a 3ds nor SuMo. The reason why i still post it is the same as in my other team i posted here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/battle-maison-discussion-records.3492706/page-210
I didnt see that strategy anywhere, and maybe it inspires some of you to new things or even makes someone want to try it. However this Raichu will be hard to get i think, but based on my little research it should be legal.. And i hope it is okay to post a (for me) pure theoretical team in this threat.
Here is it:

Team

Focus sash
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: SpA/Spd
Timid Nature
-Fake Out
-Discharge
-Surf
-HP Ice

Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: HP/SpA, 252 Spd
Timid Nature
-Electrify
-Parabolic Charge
-Echoed Voice
-Surf

EVs in HP and SpA so that he survives special things/kills special things. Faster than anything except Aerodactyl-1. Can be healed with Raichus Surf.


@Sceptilite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: SpA/Spd
Timid Nature
-Dragon Pulse
-Giga Drain/Energyball
-Substitute
-Protect
(-HP/...)

Protect and Sub seem both so useful, that i consider to play both. Sub still gets the Lightningrod-Boost, so i can wait until i am able to OHKO some dangerous things, and Protect saves me from Prios and things.. Giga Drain seems to be good with Sub, but Energyball maybe gets some important KOs.

@Fightinium-Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: HP/Def/SDef/Spd, 252 Atk
Adamant
-Bullet Punch
-Superpower
-Bug Bite
-Protect

Since the other 3 Pokemon are fast and not particular balanced in weaknesses and resistances i wanted something with many resistances, which is a bit bulky and slow or with a Prio Move that i'm not totally screwed in Trickroom. This choice wasnt made with much thoughts, and he may quickly be exchanged for another Mon. Maybe there should be something which is able to deal with Volcarona.. For the beginning i think he could do well.

Explanation

The strategy is easy: Attacking with a Lightningroduser, while Heliolisk uses Electrify on the other foe, making his attack to an electric type. This attack therefore gets catched with Lightningrod and boosts my other Pokemon. It works similar to Fake Out, because (often) you can choose which foe is allowed to attack and which one not :D The difference is of course, that it has no priority, and so one has to take care of other priority users. The Evs could be chosen in a way, that Heliolisk cant be OHKOed by some of them and therefore probably often wont be under prio-attack. As i mentioned he outspeeds anything except Aerodactyl-1. The other difference to Fake Out is, that it can be used all the time, which is a huge advantage, and it also boosts Raichu/Sceptile every turn. At the beginning i wanted to play Sceptile and Heliolisk as leads, but there were several threats that i really wanted to encounter with Fake Out: Gale Wings, and especially Pokemon that COULD be faster than Sceptile if they carry a Scarf or a Mega-Stone.
I found that Raichu, also having Lightningrod, could solve these problems. A typical beginning could look like this: Fake Out on one, Electrify on the other foe. Except Prio/Lax Incense/2 Ghost Types/... i dont get any damage in the first turn (electrified multiple target moves do a bit damage to Helio), but get a boost on Raichu, and can scout the enemys for Mega-Stones, one attack from the electrified foe, destroy a potential Sash etc. (In case of this Aero-set i mentioned i can tell after this turn whether i'm facing it or not). In the next turns i electrify a reasonable foe and try to kill the other with more and more powerful attacks from Raichu. If one of my leads faints, boosting goes on with Sceptile, since Raichu has Discharge. I guess one will also have funny situations like this: Hippo thinks he can EQ in presence of Gyara my two electro-Pokemon away, but gets electrified and kills Gyara or another flying ally instead. Muhahahahaha. Yep, i am evil. Apart from this, Helio will hopefully faint first, because if i end up with a scarf-locked Helio and Scizor, things are bad.
However, most of the team is very frail, so if i can't take quickly an advantage, it can get pretty dangerous. My biggest fear are Prio-Moves, Trickroom and bulky things Raichu cant KO in two turns even with boosts, but for sure there are several threats i have overseen. To fight these better, Scizor may be exchanged for example.

If you want to try it (and have such a Raichu), feel free. Would be glad if one likes the idea. I don't have SuMo as i mentioned.
(And sorry Marowak2000 for posting directly after you, without your team beeing discussed much, congrats to your streak, but i had this team in my head for a while and somehow wanted to share it simply right now)

 

[scoobydoobydrew]

It's been a long while, Smogon community, but I'm back now that I've graduated high school and have only free time on my hands for the summer. I've continued to build my Doubles streak and am currently in the mid-800 range, though I scrapped my old Illumise-Blastoise-Kartana-Marowak team in favor of a near monotype, something that has proven to be more fun and surprisingly more reliable. With the release of Medichamite recently I was able to pull out my strongest Psychics, and I now present to you: Operation Esprit.



Eurus (Whimsicott Lv 1) (F) @ Focus Sash
Relaxed / Prankster
IVs: ???
EVs: None

• Tailwind
• Protect
• Endeavor
• Helping Hand

Aphrodite (Tapu Lele) @ Psychium Z
Modest / Psychic Surge
IVs: 31/1/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe

• Psychic
• Moonblast
• Shadow Ball
• Protect

Pisces (Bruxish) (F) @ Choice Band
Adamant / Strong Jaw
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe*

• Psychic Fangs
• Crunch
• Waterfall
• Ice Fang

Jazz Hands (Medicham) (M) @Medichamite
Adamant / Pure Power
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

• Psycho Cut
• Low Kick
• Poison Jab
• Drain Punch

The team opens up with a level 1 Whimsicott and Tapu Lele, and this strategy is already documented; Whimsicott sets up a free Tailwind uninterrupted thanks to the protection from priority. This means that, aside from Quick Claw, I pretty much know how the turn order is going to go. Unfortunately baiting isn't very effective in Sun/Moon as it was in XYORAS, and this strategy is even worse because no Triples. However the team still plays pretty well.


Whimsicott, after setting up Tailwind, hopefully dies that turn so as to make room for a new attacker to come in. If not, it can boost Tapu Lele's firepower for the turn with Helping Hand, or Protect to continue stalling out if it looks like chances of survival afterwards are good. Endeavor is for when the opponent chooses Trick Room and Whimsicott survives, though I have actually never seen this happen. More often I select it when it looks like it's just gonna die but the AI chooses to attack elsewhere or do something else instead. Meanwhile, Tapu Lele is ok standby and fires off powerful Psychics, with Moonblast and Shadow Ball for coverage. Shattered Psyche is an amazing nuke for certain things that I just want immediately dead. Whether I attack or Protect turn 1 just depends on my opponents; if they're both slower and I can get some chip damage, I'll attack, while faster threats that could potentially aim for it will lead me to Protect.


Bruxish...oh man, I love this thing. It possesses just enough speed to outrun everything under Tailwind (*I'm not 100% sure on its EVs, but it hits 130 Speed, max Attack, and the rest is HP). Now, if you didn't know, Adamant Choice Band Psychic Fangs that's boosted by STAB, Strong Jaw, and Psychic Terrain HURTS. It's been so fun using this thing and slowly picking off non-Dark types one by one, bite by bite. Crunch helps me with coverage, while I have never once clicked on the other two moves. While Band is somewhat limiting and forces me to be more careful with sending Bruxish out and choosing attacks, it has proven to be worth it.


Mega Medicham is actually ridiculous. With basically an Attack stat of 334, it wrecks things. While HJK and Zen Headbutt are too unreliable for Tree, Low Kick and a Terrain-boosted Psycho Cut do the job just fine; Psycho Cut also boasts being a non-contact move. Poison Jab helps me deal with Fairies, while Drain Punch hits things that are too light to be affected by Low Kick and also can heal when Medicham gets weak.


This team gets really solid coverage and ends games fast, though it does have its challenges. Opposing Psychic types can be difficult as they resist my STABs and can take advantage of Psychic Terrain. Dark-types are usually taken care of, but if Bruxish is locked into Fangs, there can be trouble; I haven't run into Sableye without having Tapu Lele handy, but I imagine it would cause a lot of trouble. In the same way, Steel-types can only be handled efficiently by Medicham, so they can be difficult as well. Outside of what you would expect for team that gets mainly Psychic coverage, I also can struggle with Quick Claw users, as Golisopod nearly ended my streak once. Trick Room isn't as much of a problem as users don't set up TR when they can attack Whimsicott, and after that they're usually taken down.


Please feel free to leave any comments or suggestions, and wish me luck as I continue to approach 1000!

 

[turskain]

Very nice. Is Choice Band on Bruxish necessary over Life Orb? With Psychic Terrain, "only" an LO boost would already give Psychic Fangs more power than Mega Medicham without the lock-in.

 

[PikaAbuser]

Yeah against slower Pokemon I typically just click Instruct + Hyper Voice immediately. Gardevoir almost always survives a hit due to the heavy defensive investment; if the AI targets Oranguru instead it's usually even better since Oranguru takes hits better.

I guess another way of putting it is I don't see my team as a primary Trick Room team, but rather it uses Oranguru as an option for setting up TR when I need it. Arcanine and Buzzwole aren't completely useless outside of TR so it works for me.

Knowing the trainer's set in advance also helps a lot in making the decision whether to setup TR or not.

Is the only way to get Hyper Voice Gardevoir is to get it from older games?

 

[kneeshoeshoe]

Is the only way to get Hyper Voice Gardevoir is to get it from older games?

Yeah it's a tutor move from ORAS

The strategy is easy: Attacking with a Lightningroduser, while Heliolisk uses Electrify on the other foe, making his attack to an electric type. This attack therefore gets catched with Lightningrod and boosts my other Pokemon. It works similar to Fake Out, because (often) you can choose which foe is allowed to attack and which one not :D The difference is of course, that it has no priority, and so one has to take care of other priority users. The Evs could be chosen in a way, that Heliolisk cant be OHKOed by some of them and therefore probably often wont be under prio-attack. As i mentioned he outspeeds anything except Aerodactyl-1. The other difference to Fake Out is, that it can be used all the time, which is a huge advantage, and it also boosts Raichu/Sceptile every turn. At the beginning i wanted to play Sceptile and Heliolisk as leads, but there were several threats that i really wanted to encounter with Fake Out: Gale Wings, and especially Pokemon that COULD be faster than Sceptile if they carry a Scarf or a Mega-Stone.
I found that Raichu, also having Lightningrod, could solve these problems. A typical beginning could look like this: Fake Out on one, Electrify on the other foe. Except Prio/Lax Incense/2 Ghost Types/... i dont get any damage in the first turn (electrified multiple target moves do a bit damage to Helio), but get a boost on Raichu, and can scout the enemys for Mega-Stones, one attack from the electrified foe, destroy a potential Sash etc. (In case of this Aero-set i mentioned i can tell after this turn whether i'm facing it or not). In the next turns i electrify a reasonable foe and try to kill the other with more and more powerful attacks from Raichu. If one of my leads faints, boosting goes on with Sceptile, since Raichu has Discharge. I guess one will also have funny situations like this: Hippo thinks he can EQ in presence of Gyara my two electro-Pokemon away, but gets electrified and kills Gyara or another flying ally instead. Muhahahahaha. Yep, i am evil. Apart from this, Helio will hopefully faint first, because if i end up with a scarf-locked Helio and Scizor, things are bad.
However, most of the team is very frail, so if i can't take quickly an advantage, it can get pretty dangerous. My biggest fear are Prio-Moves, Trickroom and bulky things Raichu cant KO in two turns even with boosts, but for sure there are several threats i have overseen. To fight these better, Scizor may be exchanged for example.

Electrify doesnt work the way you think, because it's an electric type move it gets absorbed by the Lightningrod user instead of hitting the foe. So it doesn't disable the foe from attacking every turn unfortunately.

I think the Discharge/Parabolic + Rod combo works well enough imo.

One way the electrify strategy may work is probably with Volt Absorb Thundurus? I remember reading a similar strategy on nuggetbridge for a VGC15 team.

 

[PikaCuber]

Reporting a streak of 96 wins in Super Singles.

Team:

Charizard @ Charizardite X
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 18 SpA
- Flare Blitz
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Roost

Stats

Non-Mega: 185/140/98/110/105/129
Mega: 185/191/131/129/105129

The main sweeper of this team and the lead. Getting up a Dragon Dance or two can sometimes just win games by itself. Flare Blitz and Dragon Claw are obvious STAB choices. Fire Punch is an option, but having the extra damage makes it so that less boosts are needed to get a KO, even if it means taking recoil. Plus, Flare Blitz can also help ignore any potential freezes that can happen on a switch-in. Roost is so that there is a reliable recovery, especially while Mega. Using Roost is a little scarier when not Mega'd, as you lose out on getting extra resistances that can otherwise greatly reduce the damage taken.

The EV spread is relatively simple, with just max HP for bulk and enough Speed to get into the closest empty speed tier for Charizard. Everything else is then dumped into Attack for more damage. Adamant for more power, since outspeeding things isn't entirely necessary, and Dragon Dance fixes that problem. At +2 Speed, Charizard also speed ties with Manectric4, which is the Choice Scarf variant. 3 boosts are usually enough to sweep through entire teams by itself. Blaze is just so I don't have to worry about taking damage when the sun is up when not Mega'd, which is extremely important for opponents like Heatran3.

It is worth noting that it is sometimes worth not Mega evolving instantly. By not Mega Evolving Turn 1, key resistances like Fighting and Ground are still available, which makes switching in much safer for Charizard. The extra physical bulk gained from Mega Evolving is typically doesn't make a big difference, when compared to normal Charizard, as Charizard should just about never be switched into neutral hits anyways, as it is not the bulkiest thing. It only has enough bulk to set itself up, most of the time.

Milotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 2 Atk
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

Stats

202/59/107/120/187/101

The special wall of the team and often the switch-in for Ferrothorn. Scald is for STAB and burn chances, although I never really got any important ones on my run. Ice Beam is for coverage and random freezes that can make openings for Recover or potentially safe switch-ins for better matchups. Toxic lets me break down any walls much faster and have a way around evasion, as long as I hit it initially. Recover keeps Milotic healthy to take the many hits it needs to take in battle.

EV spread is made to maximize bulk while making Milotic be able to take both physical and special hits well, but with more focus on the special side. Max HP is for overall bulk, and the Special Defense EVs hit a point where 2 stat points are gained for 8 EVs. Everything else is dumped into Defense to take physical attacks better. While Milotic does speed tie with a few Pokemon with the lack of investment, it does outspeed the massive base 80 speed tier, so I accepted a few speed ties to keep Milotic very bulky. Plus, it takes 44 Speed EVs to get into an empty speed tier, which is way too many away from bulk. Leftovers for the passive recovery so I can spend more time attacking. Marvel Scale also improves Milotic's physical bulk when statused, which seemed way more common than getting a Competitive boost.

Milotic's main jobs are to switch into Fire type moves aimed at Ferrothorn and to break down and stall extremely bulky threats that are difficult to blow past with an unboosted Charizard.

Ferrothorn @ Zoom Lens
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 22 SpA / 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Stats

181/114/198/70/140/22

The physical wall of the team and main switch-in for Charizard. Power Whip is for a really strong STAB move, and alongside Gyro Ball, Ferrothorn can hit many things for some decent damage. Leech Seed improves how long Ferrothorn can stay on the field, as well as helping out the rest of the team, mainly Milotic, with the extra passive recovery. Acts a lot like Milotic's Toxic, but slightly better, in some ways. Protect lets Ferrothorn have some extra recovery from Leech Seed and lets me scout out sets so I can make safer plays.

The EV spread is very similar to Milotic, with max HP and enough defense to gain 2 stat points for 8 EVs. Everything else is then dumped into Special Defense, for extra bulk that Ferrothorn can use. Zoom Lens is a really great item for Ferrothorn, especially with minimum speed. Only 3 Pokemon sets are potentially slower than Ferrothorn, making the accuracy boost almost a guarantee. It makes Power Whip and Leech Seed much safer, much more than it would normally be. Thanks to aussieman000 on the Maison thread that used this, as I probably wouldn't have known about this great item for Ferrothorn.

Ferrothorn makes matchups against Fairy and Water types much easier, as well as keeping Charizard safe from any Rock type moves by having the resistance and bulk to take moves aimed at Charizard.

Threats (As a Lead):

Most Dragon Types: I didn't run into very many issues with Dragon types in my run, but they resist the Fire/Grass/Water parts of my team can can take out Charizard. It's mostly the coverage moves that they can carry that can go through my team. I've gotten into situations where I stall out Draco Meteor enough so that they are at -6, so I can stay safe against the other moves. Ice Beam or a boosted Charizard can beat them though, if they are in the back.

Trick Room: Annoying, but mostly tolerable. Ferrothorn outspeeds all Trick Room users under Trick Room, and many of them are damaged heavily by STAB moves or stalled out by Leech Seed.

Gardevoir3 (Mega Gardevoir): Surprisingly annoying. Does over 50% to my whole entire team and outspeeds it. At the moment, if it is a lead, Charizard doesn't Mega Evolve (although doing so or not doesn't really change anything, on second look) and uses Dragon Dance, then Megas and OHKOs Gardevoir with Flare Blitz. Otherwise, if Charizard isn't already boosted, I try to get myself in a situation where Ferrothorn switches into a Hyper Beam, giving me the opening to OHKO it back with Gyro Ball, or Toxic stalling and spamming Recover.

(Physical) Fighting Types: So many of them carry Rock Slide, threatening Charizard, and their Fighting STABs can punch through the rest of my team, with weaknesses or lesser physical bulk. The play around them really depends on what Pokemon and set it is, and how well Ferrothorn or Milotic can take a Fighting type move (potentially 2 for Milotic).

Toxicroak (Mainly Set 3): I ran into quite a few of these in my run, and I never liked facing them. Setup isn't very safe against them due to the chance to Poison, and Milotic suffers from the same fate. Focus Blast from Set 3 hurts Ferrothorn badly, so Leech Seed can't be used to break Sash. Toxic is also useless, and Dry Skin means I can't Scald for a Burn. Toxicroak3's Dark Pulse means flinches, and Shadow Ball means Special Defense drops, all potentially lethal. Taunt from Set 4 is annoying, but not the worse as the status moves I have aren't too useful against Toxicroak.

Breloom (Mainly Set 3): The status moves I carry can't safely touch Breloom. Poison Heal is annoying to potentially play against, making Toxic unsafe, as well as being immune to Leech Seed naturally. Spore is always annoying to play against, as Ferrothorn can only stay in for the turn it uses Spore before getting hurt by something. Set 3 also carries a super effective move for each member of my team, so I can't set up on it due to Rock Slide. Focus Punch is really bad against Ferrothorn, but Ferrothorn can't do anything but attack Breloom, so it lessens it's effectiveness. Ferrothorn has to fear the switch in however, and can't switch out once in so nothing has to take a Focus Punch. Sash just makes it all worse, as Charizard can't just blow past it if it isn't a lead and probably gets put to Sleep.

Tentacruel: Cannot be safely, 100% stalled against. Liquid Ooze means Leech Seed isn't safe, it's naturally immune to Toxic, and Burn does nothing against Sets 1 and 4. Sash on Set 3 is pretty bad, as I can't break it safely without risking Poison, Freeze, or just lots of damage. Potentially one of the worst leads I can start off against.

Heatran (Mainly Set 3): The other sets aren't so bad, as they are relatively predictable and Milotic can beat most of them. However, Set 3 scares off Milotic, and Earth Power means Charizard can't Mega Evolve, just so the rest of the team doesn't have to take an Earth Power. The game plan I've figured out against it is to PP stall Fire Blast with switches between Ferrothorn and Charizard, then set up Charizard to where it can take out Heatran with a Dragon Claw after Mega Evolving, all before Solar Beam runs out of PP so it can't Earth Power on a Roost.

Terrakion: Terrakion can easily rip through my team if it is not Set 2. Milotic typically can't take two attacks from it, and Ferrothorn and Charizard can't take it's STAB moves. Set 3 can punish my switching with Swords Dance, and is probably my worst matchup. Thankfully I never faced that specific Terrakion in my run.

Team Problems:

The team is a little bit weak in power if I can't get Charizard boosted. However, besides a few changes in EVs on the team, mainly Milotic for the time being, I can't see any problems or bad matchups with the team that I haven't already listed.

Battles:

Battle 60: UQ5W-WWWW-WWW7-Q5TP
Pokemon Trainer Guzma (Toxicroak3 / Honchkrow[3,4] / Golisipod3)

Analysis

I played with way too much fear for Toxicroak3, which it ended up being. The Turn 1 Poison really hurt, as I couldn't safely stall away to be at a decent health. I also forgot that Mega Evolving meant that Focus Blast starts doing more damage, so the Ferrothorn switch was a terrible option. I eventually stalled out the Focus Blasts with Milotic, barely. Dark Pulse flinching was scary, as well as the Special Defense drop, but thankfully I had enough room to take another hit and Recover, then alternate between Recover and Ice Beam.

Golisipod comes in though, and without Ferrothorn, it gets pretty scary. Thankfully, it can't do more than 50% to Milotic besides with First Impression, so I could stall it out with Toxic until Emergency Exit activated. Quick Claw was scary, but it never came up at a time when I was in immediate danger. I ended up sacrificing Ferrothorn to I think reset the Special Defense drop on Milotic, but it also gave me a free switch into Charizard, so Honchkrow wasn't an issue. Game ends with me just stalling out Golisipod further for the win. Really, just bad plays and not remembering about the loss of a Fighting resistance on Charizard.

Battle 69: HRPG-WWWW-WWW7-Q5UA
Cook Larry (Gourgeist4 / Clawitzer3 / Gyarados3)

Analysis

Rock Slide is scary, and I don't know why I didn't consider Seed Bomb coming into Milotic. Nor do I remember why I switched out Ferrothorn on the second Phantom Force, maybe due to the lack of recovery. Thankfully, it takes itself down enough from Life Orb recoil so I can finish it off with Charizard. However, I'm forced to switch again to scout out Clawitzer, which is thankfully the physical variant. Leech Seed and Protect gets me through Clawitzer. Gyarados confused me. I try to catch the potential Earthquake with Charizard, but it uses Dragon Dance instead, so I have to double back into Ferothorn to take the Waterfall. I'm not too sure about the Dragon Dance at the moment, but it may be something similar to Battle 75.

Battle 75: FCPW-WWWW-WWW7-Q5UP
Punk Guy Etta (Staraptor3 / Arcanine4 / Gyarados4)

Analysis

Staraptor could potentially nuke Charizard, so Ferrothorn comes in to sponge a hit and fire back a Gyro Ball after some Leech Seed recovery. Arcanine comes in, so the obvious switch of Milotic comes in after I figure out it is Set 4 with Protect. Arcanine burns Milotc on the switch in, which is a blessing in disguise, as I take much less damage from the pummeling of Fighting moves, letting me survive and Recover back my health before taking out Arcanine.

I don't know how much research or whatever has gone into Dragon Dance users, but the previous recorded battle and this one makes me want to say that Dragon Dance users, at least Gyarados, only goes for enough boosts to OHKO the opposing Pokemon from the health it is at. It went for only one boost against Milotic, which was exactly enough to take out Milotic with a Crunch. Then, Ferrothorn was just out of range of an OHKO from just over half health, causing it to boost again. However, Leech Seed kept Ferrothorn just outside of a OHKO with Crunch, which gave me the opening to KO back with a Power Whip. Whether this is new information or not, I hope it becomes useful.

Battle 78: 5HCG-WWWW-WWW7-Q5V5
Cook Larry (Shiinotic4 / Breloom4 / Ribombee[3,4])

Analysis

Spore is annoying to play against. That's really all this battle was, trying to not get put to sleep and hope that it wasn't a Weakness Policy, which it was. Moonlight got annoying, so I switch out to Charizard on a potential Moonlight turn and I boost up without Mega Evolving to maintain a resistance to Moonblast. Breloom is scary, but it couldn't knock out Charizard with a potential Rock Slide and I outsped it, so Spore wasn't as big of a threat. It ends up being Set 4, so it gets OHKO'd and so does Ribombee in the back.

Battle 85: 3QWW-WWWW-WWW7-Q5VH
Golfer Patrick (Volcarona[3,4] / Comfey[3,4] / Tentacruel[3,4])

Analysis

I've heard of things about Volcarona continuously trying to boost up to max, and it seemed to be true, at least for me. I continue going for boosts alongside it in order to OHKO it with a Dragon Claw (even though I could do so earlier with a Flare Blitz, my damage calculator was doing some glitchy things), then sweep from there. I naturally outsped Volcarona, so I was never at threat from it unless it decided to attack me and OHKO me on a turn I boosted.

Battle 94: WXDW-WWWW-WWW7-Q5VP
Preschooler Naya (Heatran3 / Landorus[3,4] / Garchomp[3,4])

Analysis

This battle was not fun at all. I did exactly what I mentioned in my threats section, PP stall Fire Blast so I could boost Charizard enough to OHKO Heatran, then sweep. I did not enjoy this battle, as I had come up with that on the fly and I didn't even count Solar Beam PP, so an Earth Power was a sudden scary thought (even though I would outspeed).

What kind of parents are these people, leaving a little kid with such scary things?

Battle 95: 3RUW-WWWW-WWW7-Q6W6
Lass Inez (Terrakion1 / Thundurus2 / Uxie2)

Analysis

Basically the previous battle, but worse. Roost is impossible because I'd die to a Close Combat, and Milotic can't come in because it gets 2HKO'd by everything it has. I end up PP stalling Close Combat so Ferrothorn can safely take it out. Thundurus is annoying with Focus Blast, but I just stall him out with Recovers. I get a lucky Freeze in to keep my health high and take out Thunudrus at no risk. Uxie then comes in, but I still have Charizard in the back, so I just try to whittle down Uxie enough with Milotic so Charizard can take it out on the free switch in later, if absolutely necessary.

Battle 97: CYDG-WWWW-WWW7-Q6WN (Loss)
Veteran Priya (Regigigas2 / Suicune[1,2] / Cobalion2)

Analysis

I played pretty badly and misinformed myself. Hax also played a decent role in this as well. Thunder is fine up until I get paralyzed, so I decided to switch into Milotic to take the potential Thunder, but it uses Confuse Ray then Toxic rather than trying to do some massive damage. Thankfully, I get my own Toxic onto it, so Ferrothorn can come in, take the Thunder, and stall it out, as well as not deal with trying to attack through Confusion. Through Confusion, I get the Protect off to scout out the set, but Sacred Sword does way too much. Milotic can't effectively stall due to Toxic, and Charizard is 2HKO'd by Sacred Sword and can't outspeed it. I end up sacrificing Charizard to reset the Toxic timer, and I decide to try and freezeit to come back and win, but to no avail.

Without the Paralysis, I would have went straight for another another attack onto Regigigas, probably taking it out. Suicune would have probably come in, and Milotic can stall it out with Leech Seed, Toxic, and Recover, regardless of the set, which I had done several other times in the run. At that point, all I would need is to do is get enough damage onto Cobalion to where Flare Blitz can KO, which wouldn't be a lot, and have a free switch into Charizard.

Even with everything happening so far, I theorized a way to win after the battle, if I had Burned Cobalion instead. I would have needed a Double Protect in order to get into a range where Sacred Sword didn't take out Ferrothorn, but then I would just need another Double or even Triple Protect to repeat that. Then deal with Suicune and try to survive it's attacks with the little HP I have, get a Leech Seed off, and repeat.

Final Notes:

I like the team, but I don't think I'll be playing it too much as I prefer Doubles and Multis (the latter just slightly) over Singles. Tapu Fini or Suicune are options over Milotic as a bulky Water type, as the former helps against Fighting types and the latter has better overall bulk. However, Tapu Fini's Misty Terrain works both for and against Charizard, weakening Dragon Claw but stopping status, and neither of them have a reliable recovery. Milotic, while missing out on the status blocking, can take advantage of status effects, Toxic stall, and have a good recovery.

EV spreads will almost definitely be readjusted before another run, maybe to a more physically bulky Milotic to deal with Terrakion slightly better. Charizard could also get more bulk, but I'm not as sure if I want to sacrifice the power it has, as the team lacks it otherwise.

 

[Brucolac]

Electrify doesnt work the way you think, because it's an electric type move it gets absorbed by the Lightningrod user instead of hitting the foe. So it doesn't disable the foe from attacking every turn unfortunately.

I think the Discharge/Parabolic + Rod combo works well enough imo.

One way the electrify strategy may work is probably with Volt Absorb Thundurus? I remember reading a similar strategy on nuggetbridge for a VGC15 team.

Well, that of course is the end of that team. I somehow thought that non-attacking moves arent drawn in by Lightningrod, and was for no reason too confident to check it. Knowing that would have saved me from wasting much time, but for the most part i'm just disappointed that it doesnt work.. Maybe thats the reason why there is no streak with that strategy on the leaderboard.
Anyways, thank you for pointing this fundamental detail out.

 

[Worldie]

Unfortunately, or fortunately, non attacking moves are dragged by LR. In fact, LR support is a good way to shut down Thunder Wave spammer sets that plague the early tree rounds in doubles.

 

[BlindNinja]

Just lost in Super Singles at 101 with my team of Dragonite, Togekiss, and Mega-Metagross

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Thunder Wave

Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch

Movesets were definitely not optimized and I played pretty poorly towards the end, but it was still a fun streak. Steel types, Rotom-H, and Garchomp if I lost Togekiss were some of my biggest threats.

Battle Video B44G-WWWW-WWW7-QDX6

 

[BringBackWaluigi]

My broduderinos, i ask for your help regarding what pokemon should i use for my current multi team, the members are:

Fast Torkoal (Charizard-Mega-Y) @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Solar Beam
- Dragon Pulse
- Protect

Tapu Bulu @ Rockium Z
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Stone Edge
- Superpower
- Protect


And Anabel's mons are:


Entei @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Extrasensory
- Solar Beam

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Adaptability
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Blaze Kick
- Bullet Punch


The lead is already established in having ZardY set sun and having entei decimating whatever comes at it with sun boosted Eruption, however what is giving me problems are the mons in the back, currently bulu is my most "solid" due to the Wood Hammer - Bloom Doom killing/heavily crippling anything it touches. However Tapu Bulu adds a very heavy poison weakness to which i don't have an immediate answer, an example is how Kiawe and Grimswold, and Plumeria have been giving me the most trouble because of Kiawe's Salazzle, Grimswold's Drapion and Plumeria's everything; Bulu also adds another Flying weakness thus making my backline nearly useless against lets say Sina's Mandibuzz and Kiawe's Talonflame. Bulu being slower than most of the aforementioned pokemons has led me to switch him out for a Tapu Lele whose set is:


Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball

It has been working fairly well and even if it has much more coverage than Bulu and acts as a good revenge killer he often feels very sloppy and lacking in firepower to kill anything that might kill ZardY (I.E. Anything that starts with R and ends with ock Slide) or in taking out enemy setters trying to overwrite the sun, not to mention how pychich terrain screws over Lucario's Bullet Punch this reducing my chances of thrusting his fist inside of Aero1 and any other rock mons that may have killed entei.

Right now i'm looking for a Solar Power heliolisk but given how both lele and bulu whcih are in my opinion fairly superior mons i think i will just have to resign and grind untill i get the perfect run to 50.

Thank you in advance for any help or tips regarding what mons should i replace mine with, this place has already done a lot for me and it is thanks to the stuff i read in this thread that i got my current records which, despite being very low (they are all above 50 but not laderboard-worthy except for the multi one which is 49, lost to a crit from Blu's aero1 rock slide on bulu). The pokemons that are currently in my mind are Alakazam and Heliolisk as revenge killers to take out anything that might threaten both Lucario and Entei (mostly Lucario since entei becomes useless after he goes under 2/3 of his HP)

My team is called The Lusty Argonian Maidragon - Dogs and Pigs ch. 2

 

[Worldie]

I would *Really* suggest changing the Tapu Bulu part. Not only as you mentioned you add a very scary and exploitable poison weakness (remember in multis, it's only 2 pokes per trainer, so if you get both your pokes nuked down, your partner is left 1v2), but also since you are partying with a M-Chari Y, he's also going to take free extra damage from Drought.

Seeing what you are partnering with, you might want something that can realistically deal with ground types and Rock Slide spam, (aka, not Heliolisk, since it ALSO is weak to ground) due to both the partnered pokes weak to ground. I would suggest a Wide Guard user to flat out stop Earthquake shenenigans, rather than rely on grassy terrains or outspeeding. Araquanid could be a useful option for example, that is, after Drought expires, also adding the possibility of Entraining the M-Lucario making it immune to Burn, while at same time providing a stupidly strong Z-Liquidation with decent coverage, and being also incredibly slow in case enemy Trick Room goes up. Flygon or one of the Lati could be a acceptable compromise who can resist fire / rock and is immune to Ground, if you want to go with faster routes.

Throwing ideas there.

Or you can be weird like me and use a random Regigigas, it led me to 72 in my last streak, unfortunately I never was able to replicate with that specific team :(

 

[Marowak2000]

Getting plenty of wins in a row is not *THAT* slow if you have animations disabled and have enough experience to know what to do most of the matches, honestly.

For curiosity, seeing M-Lopunny sports unresisted stab, what are you actually having issues against, and with what set? Assuming you are Fakeouting turn one, a Low Kick should easily delete more or less every Sturdy user, unless you are running a fully supportive M-Lopunny moveset in which case I doubt combining it with Oranguru is a good plan.

She's not paired with oranguru, she's paired with sylveon and yes low sweep does kick crap out of them but if they got sturdy then they hit back!

(And sorry Marowak2000 for posting directly after you, without your team beeing discussed much, congrats to your streak, but i had this team in my head for a while and somehow wanted to share it simply right now)

That's OK lol, I wasn't really looking for my own team to be discussed, I was more questioning kneeshoeshoe about his.
Welcome back Call_Me_Charlie .... Smuckem will be glad to see you back.... I think he missed you lol!

 

[NoCheese]

I lost at 319 wins in Super Singles with Dragonite / Mega Slowbro / Chansey. The lesson here is to be wary of playing while distracted, as the defeat was a complete and total punt. Frustrating, and embarrassingly ill-played. But a good reminder nonetheless. And at least lets me claim berries and get onto the leaderboard.

The Team

The team is essentially the same as used in my big Battle Maison streak. The only change is that I've dropped Chansey to 246 Speed EVs (and go up to 252 in Defense), going down to 111 Speed from 112. This lets me avoid a lot of Speed ties, while still outspeeding Liligant2's 110, which is handy. I do tie with Clawitzer4, but that's pretty moot, since it beats Chansey regardless of Speed if locked into Aura Sphere and loses regardless of Speed otherwise. On the subject of Speed, it is rather satisfying to see my Maison preference for Timid Chansey become pretty standard, and I remain completely satisfied by the choice here.

Dragonite @_Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
Nature: Adamant (+Att, -Spa)
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-Fire Punch
-Dragon Dance

Stats: 167 / 204 / 115 / 108 / 120 / 132
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EVs: 6 / 252 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 252

--

Slowbro @_Slowbronite
Trait: Regenerator --> Shell Armor
Nature: Bold (+Def, -Att)
-Scald
-Iron Defense
-Calm Mind
-Rest

Stats (pre-Mega Evolution): 201 / 85 / 178 / 121 / 101 / 51
Stats (post-Mega Evolution): 201 / 85 / 255 / 151 / 101 / 51
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EVs: 244 / 0 / 252 / 4 / 4 / 4

--

Chansey @_Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Att)
-Seismic Toss
-Minimize
-Substitute
-Soft Boiled

Stats: 326 / 17 / 57(85) / 56 / 126 (189) / 111
IVs: 31 / x / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EVs: 4 / 0 / 252 / 4 / 4 / 246

Strategy and Threats

Strategy remains basically the same as discussed in my Maison post here (which I strongly recommend reading if you want to try this team), so I won't rewrite it all. But it must be noted that while Chansey and Slowbro remain a beastly duo, beautifully setting up against special and physical attackers, respectively, Dragonite is notably less effective this time around. Facing multiple possible sets for each foe in most battles reduces "safe" set ups, and Z-moves and Megas mean there are a lot more things that can beat or cripple the Jolly Green Giant.

The threat list remains similar to in the Maison, but the Tree adds some new stuff too. Mimikyu (especially Mimikyu3) is a huge pain as it beats Dragonite, can muscle through Chansey, and can pound Slowbro with Shadow Claw and Wood Hammer, potentially boosted by Swords Dance. Ghost / Fairy is pretty trollish typing, and Disguise is amazing. Haxorus4 is also very troublesome, especially if it has Mold Breaker. The combination of Dragon Dance and Dragon Tail is really rough, as it can boost itself while preventing boosting against it, even breaking Multiscale while phazing, and a lead Haxorus can put me in a very bad spot. Mega Heracross looks like a terrifying lead, but happily, the AI appears to not properly value Skill Linked multi-hit move damage, and so Dragonite does not get met with a deadly opening Rock Blast. Mega Salamence is frustrating because it outspeeds my whole team, and Crunch makes Slowbro a less reliable counter than normal. Other Dragon Tail users can force me into awkward plays. Lickilicky4, for example, is not a fun match.

Future Changes

If I decide to play the team again, I think I'm going to try replacing lead Dragonite with Gliscor. With fewer safe setups for Dragonite, and fewer safe turn 1 switches to Slowbro or Chansey due to set 3/4 uncertainty, Dragonite is often forced to stay in for at least a turn in bad or potentially bad matchups. In such a world, a good turn one scout is really valuable. Gliscor can scout quite effectively, and then, through its stalling, open up good set up opportunities for its teammates. Lastly, unlike Dragonite, which really leans on Multiscale and so hates switching back into attacks, Gliscor can be used as an excellent defensive switch-in even after its lead job is done. Immunities to Ground- and Electric-type attacks open up excellent switch stalling opportunities too. Figuring on an ideal lead spread will be tough (My gut says Jolly, but I know that the most successful previous Gliscor teams have declined to use the Max Speed approach), and I'm sure there are weaknesses I haven't considered yet, but I really think Gliscor has the potential to do good work with a Chansey / Slowbro core.

Proof Video: 3CEG-WWWW-WWW7-QHMD
This was ugly. As noted earlier, don't play distracted and please pardon my bad play. Not counting Rock Slides (leaving Slowbro asleep when the AI switched) and not waiting for a resub before KOing Espeon when Chansey was my final Pokemon were absolutely unacceptable. I was pretty cavalier about letting stuff die too. Just bad all the way around.

 

[scoobydoobydrew]

Very nice. Is Choice Band on Bruxish necessary over Life Orb? With Psychic Terrain, "only" an LO boost would already give Psychic Fangs more power than Mega Medicham without the lock-in.

Honestly I think Life Orb might turn out to be a better choice. I had LO Bruxish on a different team I used previously that also abused Psychic Terrain and it seemed to work fine; I think Band helps put a little more power behind Crunch, but I may just be fixating on one event where Banded Crunch was barely able to 2HKO. Bruxish is frail enough to ignore the LO recoil anyway, so perhaps I'll try it out.

 

[Smuckem]

That's OK lol, I wasn't really looking for my own team to be discussed, I was more questioning kneeshoeshoe about his.
Welcome back Call_Me_Charlie .... Smuckem will be glad to see you back.... I think he missed you lol!

That's not saying much...I miss EVERYBODY who posted in the Maison thread with any regularity and doesn't anymore. I miss HeadsILoseTailsYouWin and VaporeonIce and FrigidKitsune and JT Hitman and I could go on and on. Shit, I miss you and Altissimo posting, and both of you already post here! (semi-regularly, but you do it.)

With that said, the boss getting back on the saddle and C_M_C scoring major success does this old heart much good. I feel giddy now--when older Trainers get back to facility-busting, it gives all of the other old Trainers some hope that they can turn back the clock and do the same.

With this streak, no matter where he ends up, Charlie will end up occupying a spot on the Top 10 in the Doubles leaderboard. This is Step 1 of what I hope will be a chain reaction:
- the more people that get on the Doubles leaderboard, the better the odds that I will eventually be knocked off The Top 10 of said leaderboard. I'm praying that this momentum builds and I do get knocked off at some point--all you other muthafuckas are slacking, step up and get up there!
- the farther down I get pushed, the more overall activity this indicates on the thread, which is kind of the point I suppose
- The more activity on the thread, the bigger the community we will have ready to tackle the USUM Tree once that monstrosity sprouts
- Side benefit: the bigger the community that is ready, the better the odds that the rest of the old guard--some of those folks I miss and many others--will stand up, take notice, and come back to join in the aforementioned future fight (and the present one, maybe)

So yeah, hope and faith all that...not that I have to hope for everybody indicated...you'll be back up there eventually, I'm sure of that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The QR3 has been updated through here. kneeshoeshoe, I have tentatively named your team "The Silver Karp", if you come up with anything better let me know. Also added is a side project by Josh C., something he will have ready for when the Sharkanine and its monmumental 2000-win streak finally falls (if you have a better name for it than "T2R", please let me know as well). CHECK IT~!

 

[Worldie]

I would think that in a moment where Band does not get you a 1hko, you are just putting yourself in a very horrible position of having a move-locked frail Pokemon that can still be killed or revenge killed back without getting any realistic benefit from the Choice item.

But then, I'm quite known for being against Choice items in b-tree doubles, to begin with. I always consider LO and Z-moves a way less risky option, for this concern.

 

[Eisenherz]

So, I started a new streak and for the first time, I'm using Wide Guard on my team. So far, it's been really helpful, but I was wondering, how does the AI handle Wide Guard in the Tree? For example, if the opposing Pokémon is spamming Rock Slide (or is locked into it) and I use Wide Guard once, will they keep trying as if nothing happened, or will they switch it up (or switch out if they're choiced)? Is there even a consistent response to it?

 

[Worldie]

Having nearly always used Wide Guard in my latest comps, I can say that the AI does not seemb to play around Wide Guard. I've witnessed multiple times the likes of repeated Surf/Earthquake into WG, and even explosions into it.
The AI also does not seemb to want to swap pokemon that only have Spread moves either: I distinctly remember facing a Rotom set which only had spread moves (Rotom-Frost i believe) which remained on field despite all his moves being blocked by WG.

 

[PikaCuber]

So, I started a new streak and for the first time, I'm using Wide Guard on my team. So far, it's been really helpful, but I was wondering, how does the AI handle Wide Guard in the Tree? For example, if the opposing Pokémon is spamming Rock Slide (or is locked into it) and I use Wide Guard once, will they keep trying as if nothing happened, or will they switch it up (or switch out if they're choiced)? Is there even a consistent response to it?

From what I've seen, they don't notice Wide Guard. I've been able to PP stall moves like Heat Wave and Earthquake with Aegislash because of it.

 

[scoobydoobydrew]

Well, I'm not sure if we're doing the Hall of Fame thing like we did in the Maison, but I've gotten my stamp for winning 50 battles in Super Multi (finally). While continuing my Doubles streak I was able to scout an amazing trainer and decided to go for the stamp to take a break from Doubles, which had again gotten a little repetitive. I got the stamp with Ace Trainer Levi.

Operation Start A Fire

My Team

Niv-Mizzet (Charizard) (F) Charizardite Y
Timid / Blaze -> Drought
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

• Flamethrower
• Solar Beam
• Dragon Pulse
• Focus Blast

Fan Bearer (Shiftry) (F) Focus sash
Adamant / Chlorophyll
IVs: 31/31/xx/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

• Fake Out
• Leaf Blade
• Knock Off
• Low Kick

AI's Team

Typhlosion (M) Choice Scarf
Modest / Blaze
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

• Eruption
• Focus Blast
• Flamethrower
• Extrasensory

Blaziken (M) @Blazikenite
Adamant / Blaze -> Speed Boost
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe

• Night Slash
• Flare Blitz
• Stone Edge
• Brave Bird

The reason this team works so well is because the AI only really needs to do one thing, and it's usually its best option: spam Eruption. Typhlosion outspeeds most of the Tree and does heavy damage, especially in the sunlight that Charizard provides (Mega Evolution means it beats out weather abilities that trigger first turn). I find here that Choice Scarf is actually a benefit as it makes my partner predictable. Charizard supports by clearing things that might not immediately fall to a spread Eruption, and has a decent Speed to back up its massive literal firepower. Flamethrower for accuracy and Solar Beam as an answer to Water-types, especially Water/Rock types and Jellicent, who could turn the tables with Trick Room. The last two moveslots were tougher as I considered Air Slash and Protect, but I felt that Dragon Pulse was necessary for things like Kingdra, Dragonite, and Mega Ampharos, whom I otherwise did not have good answers for. Focus Blast was not used but was there as a panic button for Heatran.

As a backup, Blaziken did not come out often but did its job well when it appeared. Opponents were usually already weakened and so it had no trouble killing one and then nabbing a Speed Boost bonus; though its moveset is funky and I really wish it had Low Kick or at least Sky Uppercut, a Sun-boosted Flare Blitz still proved devastating. Shiftry came in under sunlight to outspeed everything; if it came out together with Blaziken, a Fake Out could usually help it get a speed boost, while the other moves were standard STAB and coverage, with Dark and Fighting being very much appreciated.

Again, the best thing about this strategy is that AI will pretty reliably use Eruption, only faltering when it runs out of PP. I don't think it realizes abilities, strangely enough, as one time it used Eruption on a Flash Fire opponent twice in a row even though it was the only opponent left (I believe it was Houndoom). Also, if it does run out of PP, the switch out can be pretty annoying. However, most of the time the AI did its job incredibly well. I really got lucky with this scout; even the abilities were right. Typhlosion didn't really need Flash Fire, and Blaze gave it more oomph when firing off slightly weaker Eruptions. In addition, the presence of Blaze on all starters initially make Trace not much of a problem. Besides manual weather setters (which sometimes make Charizard switch out and back in if necessary), the team struggles with little.

Somehow I managed to take a photo of the moment I got the stamp but forgot to actually save the Battle Video. But hey, it's better to have my stupid moments when I'm not battling, right? Battle 50 was pretty simple, Eruption and Solar Beam cleared out an opposing Alakazam and Lapras turn 1; the same moves helped to take down Mega Aerodactyl and Blastoise within the next three turns.

Overall I'm very satisfied with this team's performance. To be honest, I may not return to Doubles until this streak ends or I get bored, but we'll see which comes first. As always, feel free to leave comments!