Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[CTNC]

If you want to rely on Moxie/BeastBoost pokemon while keeping your M-Blaziken, there's probably better options than Salamence. Another UB, Kartana for example, will get a insanely good speedtier from a batonpassed Speed Boost, and already rocks an astronomically high attack with *way* better coverage and stab than M-Blazi, can run Focus Sash or Z-crystal, though sharing Fire weakness with Celesteela in this case.

Unfortunately all Moxie users outside of Krookodile double either into electric or fire weakness with Celesteela, though, but all sport better moveset and coverage than non-megaSalamence (Gyarados, Honchkrow).

It's also worth mentioning the existance of Ash-Greninja which does have a valid phisical and special moveset, access to priority AND a pseudo-moxie which features giving it a great unboosted speed tier without needing to setup, and also covering all Blaziken weaknesses with stabs or coverage.

Another idea would be running Weakness policy Dragonite, which is virtually non 1hittable outside of mold breakers, can run Dragon Dance and has also very good coverage on its own (I've been doing some attempts with Dragon Claw, Waterfall, Thunder Punch, D-dance version myself in doubles).

Strictly related to your Salamence... having to rely on non 100% moves *will* inevitably at some point bite you back when talking about B-tree where there's no "rematch" for a unlucky miss. Might even just want to forgo flying stab completely for something more efficent if you plan on keeping Salamence. If you want to keep the Z-move, Z-outrage and Z-Draco meteor have ridicolous damage output, as well.

I'm not dead set on abusing Moxie or Beast boost, I'm just dead set on Nukes! :D

I chose Salamence as my Moxie Pokemon of choice because it can take hits that are aimed at Blaziken like Surf and Earthquake. Gyarados can fill the same purpose if I need to make that change, but I'm worried about Water being resisted by more things than Dragon. Also, a lot more Electric moves than you'd expect are aimed at Blaziken.

I'm iffy on other UBs and because, with the exception of Xurkitree, they can not take any hits on one of the sides of the Physical/Special split. even if I know what they hitting Blaziken with, which I usually do because of Protect, UBs will take way too much damage. Ash-Greninja can't take any hits. Xurkitree on the other hand, looks like it could survive one hit on ether side. One is enough. I think I'll try him over Celesteela.

I can't deny the problem with Fly's accuracy, but I feel like I need it for Fairies.

 

[PandaMan436]

Hey guys if im trying to run a scarfmence sweep should i go with intimidate or moxie for the tree? i feel like moxie can help me sweep through the teams but is intimidate worth it for the switch in power?

 

[Darth_Scorpion]

You could swap Fly and Flyinium-Z on your Salamence for Double-edge(or Return) and Normalium-Z - removes the accuracy problem and will be a terrifying nuke.

PandaMan436: Most of the time, intimidate is the more useful ability, but if you're locking into a move with scarf I can see moxie having a purpose. I'd have a hard time giving up intimidate though...

 

[SadisticMystic]

Normalium Z means it can't hold Salamencite, so Double-Edge will not be STAB and will never hit anything super-effectively...that's not a good option.

 

[CTNC]

Double Edge for a Non-Mega-Mence? that's like a Stab Power 80 Move with recoil. If it's being used just for the Z-Move then I'm better off using Dragonium Z and if it's being using just for Fairies, I'm better off using Iron Head. Guess who doesn't get Iron Head. X(

Hm... I think I had an Idea for my Salamence's Moveset.

Salamence (Sill Needs a Nickname) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Iron Head Double Edge
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

The idea is to use Devastating Drake as the First Attack. After that, the opponent will send out their Dragon resist if they have one, which will then be hit hard by Earthquake or Double Edge. If there's not a Dragon resist, Outrage. This can't end well... for them. >:D Also, the power increase from Dragon Claw to Outrage is useful even for a +1 Attack Adamant Mence.

The obvious, but irrelevant down side is that Salamence will be using a Z-Move that won't look right for it. (After having a Shiny Kingdra use it, nothing else will look right with it... By the way, is there a Moveset and EV Spread that' works best for a Neutral Nature Kingdra? I know the answer's no, but I'm asking anyway. :P)


Edit: The opponents are still sending out Steel Types Last even when they don't know I have Earthquake. I think it's because I had Blaziken out earlier in the battle.

 

[Worldie]

I don't think there's much reason to not run 252 atk/spatk + 252 speed on Kingdra, no matter what the nature is. Unless you *really* need to check a specific threat for your comp, in which case it's simpler to just go over a calc for the specific case.

As for "taking hits", you might want to just run a staller or something similar rather than attempting to get "sweepers that can take hits".

Aegislash tends to work very well with Blaziken and Salamence, for example.

 

[CTNC]

I don't think there's much reason to not run 252 atk/spatk + 252 speed on Kingdra, no matter what the nature is. Unless you *really* need to check a specific threat for your comp, in which case it's simpler to just go over a calc for the specific case.

As for "taking hits", you might want to just run a staller or something similar rather than attempting to get "sweepers that can take hits".

Aegislash tends to work very well with Blaziken and Salamence, for example.

What I'm looking for is more like "doesn't die to every Physical and/or Special move" than "can take hits" which leads to the rare sentence, "Xurkitree's Defenses are good."

As for Aegislash, that's really good type Synergy. I'd complain about not benefiting from Speed Boost that much, but I can't when Aegislash is as good as he is. He's worth considering, but I'm going to stick with Xurkitree for now.

 

[Darth_Scorpion]

Normalium Z means it can't hold Salamencite, so Double-Edge will not be STAB and will never hit anything super-effectively...that's not a good option.

Very true - though it's a better option as a reserve move than a 2-turn move with 95% accuracy after the Z-move has been used.

A common core for singles is Salamence/Aegislash, so it may be worth considering if Xurkitree doesn't work out...

 

[Worldie]

If you want to use Xurkitree, turskain has been using it a lot lately, including special EV spreads in order to not die horribly to a certain shark dragon. He can probably help you.

 

[The Great Roydinho]

Hey guys if im trying to run a scarfmence sweep should i go with intimidate or moxie for the tree? i feel like moxie can help me sweep through the teams but is intimidate worth it for the switch in power?

personally, i wouldnt use moxie and a scarf. in theory having a moxie sweeper faster than everything else would seem like the best idea in the world but it would only be good for brushing aside the first couple dozen battles. if you want you could probably use a life orb instead.

 

[Smuckem]

Battle 42: ERKW-WWWW-WWW7-7NSN

Nothing too special, just pointing out some odd AI behavior. Florges kept switching between using Grassy and Misty Terrain. I have another battle with one of my previous iterations of my team with the same Florges.
Other Battle: F25W-WWWW-WWW7-7NT2

While it's not all that vital to understand why this happens, the fact remains that no one has ever given a definitive explanation for this, or why Aurorus2 does the same thing at times with Hail & Sandstorm.

Since I don't have any active streaks going, and my current teambuilding process is inherently slow-going, I intend to look into this in the near future. Just doing smallish streaks where I can run into this in both Maison & Tree (it acts the same in Maison unless it has a OHKO available with Misty Nature Power), save the replays, see how/if I'm able to divert it from usual behavior.

I don't have to necessarily only do short, truncated streaks to make this happen; however, given that only Trainer in each facility uses Florges2 post-Facility...Master, I guess? It would be a lot to work to extend streaks that far, just for this purpose. I suppose I could try to do so at least once, though.

 

[paperquagsire]

While it's not all that vital to understand why this happens, the fact remains that no one has ever given a definitive explanation for this, or why Aurorus2 does the same thing with Hail & Sandstorm.

Since I don't have any active streaks going, and my current teambuilding process is inherently slow-going, I intend to look into this in the near future. Just doing smallish streaks where I can run into this in both Maison & Tree (it acts the same in Maison unless it has a OHKO available with Misty Nature Power), save the replays, see how/if I'm able to divert it from usual behavior.

I don't have to necessarily only do short, truncated streaks to make this happen; however, given that only Trainer in each facility uses Florges2 post-Facility...Master, I guess? It would be a lot to work to extend streaks that far, just for this purpose. I suppose I could try to do so at least once, though.

You could always just save a replay that florges2 is in and mock battle the replay team a bunch of times using different teams to see what it does in different matchups, or scout it in multis

 

[PikaCuber]

While it's not all that vital to understand why this happens, the fact remains that no one has ever given a definitive explanation for this, or why Aurorus2 does the same thing with Hail & Sandstorm.

Since I don't have any active streaks going, and my current teambuilding process is inherently slow-going, I intend to look into this in the near future. Just doing smallish streaks where I can run into this in both Maison & Tree (it acts the same in Maison unless it has a OHKO available with Misty Nature Power), save the replays, see how/if I'm able to divert it from usual behavior.

I don't have to necessarily only do short, truncated streaks to make this happen; however, given that only Trainer in each facility uses Florges2 post-Facility...Master, I guess? It would be a lot to work to extend streaks that far, just for this purpose. I suppose I could try to do so at least once, though.

That's why I was confused, which is why I even intentionally switched in Salamence to try and make it Nature Power into it in Misty Terrain (I think that's in the first battle). I have no clue why it didn't go for a KO, cause it was a OHKO on Salamence.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

The terrain switching has been a thing since X/Y, of that much I'm certain. All it really means is that the AI doesn't have any options it cares to utilize against the present opponent(s). Florges has only Round and Nature Power for attacks; Aurorus has Ancientpower and Freeze Dry. There are a lot of pokes and builds that will take so little damage from either attack that the AI will see fit to mindlessly use its support move, since it likes to bust them out when there isn't lucrative damage to be had. The problem with those two sets is that by having a second option, the AI immediately loses its standard gameplan of support-then-attack.

What I seem to have noticed is that Wishiwashi in particular doesn't seem to discern between Double-Edge and Waterfall while Rain is active and will alternate between them if no water weakness is present. It's made it pretty easy to deal with. I've also wondered if they regard a normal-type attack as normal even if immediate conditions dictate that the move changes type, as they've made some unexpected decisions that way, also.

 

[Smuckem]

The terrain switching has been a thing since X/Y, of that much I'm certain. All it really means is that the AI doesn't have any options it cares to utilize against the present opponent(s). Florges has only Round and Nature Power for attacks; Aurorus has Ancientpower and Freeze Dry. There are a lot of pokes and builds that will take so little damage from either attack that the AI will see fit to mindlessly use its support move, since it likes to bust them out when there isn't lucrative damage to be had. The problem with those two sets is that by having a second option, the AI immediately loses its standard gameplan of support-then-attack.

What I seem to have noticed is that Wishiwashi in particular doesn't seem to discern between Double-Edge and Waterfall while Rain is active and will alternate between them if no water weakness is present. It's made it pretty easy to deal with. I've also wondered if they regard a normal-type attack as normal even if immediate conditions dictate that the move changes type, as they've made some unexpected decisions that way, also.

That's kind of why I want to hone in on Florges2: at least Aurorus2 wakes up and goes for the kill with its offense most of the time if you're an appropriate target (if you're Volcarona or most Dragons, Aurorus is probably coming for you), but Florges2 practically never bothers, even when it has a Misty Terrain Nature Power (or Misty Power, for short) KOable target in range (or when a badly weakened target is in KO range period).

Even the heightened pace of Tree Doubles has given me several opportunities to make note of this. It's an unimaginably damaged set.

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Hence my last sentence regarding the potential ignorance that a normal-typed move is not going to be normal when actually used. The only thing that makes me hesitate is that AI Mega Mence wastes no time murdering my Hariyama with Aerilate DE on turn one if I let it, and it's a fairly common enemy thanks to that one Punk Guy.

But I've seen plenty of instances where they declined use of a normal move which had changed to a more preferable type.

 

[Magicxgame]

Hello, everyone. I'm here to report a streak of 200 wins in Super Singles with Mega Salamence / Aegislash / Chansey. I didn't lose, but I quit the streak since using the team was tedious and I wanted to restart my Moon save file.

Proof Video: Battle #200 VS Pokemon Trainer Wally - Altaria, Mega Garchomp, Magnezone
W9UG-WWWW-WWW7-8TBW

The team is nothing original. However, the two players with Mence / Aegis / Chansey streaks assume that most players are familiar with the team from the Maison leaderboard, so I wanted to give an in-depth explanation on the team.

The Triforce

Overview

The team was coined by VaporeonIce in the Battle Maison thread, where he got 2,228 wins. The success of his team created an archetype that I dubbed "Mega Stall": Super Singles teams that contain a Mega Evolution and two walls. The objective of Mega Stall teams is to set up an overpowered Mega Evolution, while using the two walls to outstall any threats and allow the Mega to safely set up. The team is a mix of the classic Dragon/Water/Steel teams and the Truant Durant teams: the team aims to set up a single Pokemon like Durant teams, but has the flexibility of a regular team. In the Maison, Mega Kangaskhan was the Mega of choice; however, due to its nerfs, the original Mega Salamence takes center stage.

The team has excellent defensive synergy: Salamence and Aegislash cover each other's weaknesses, and can neuter physical attackers with regular Salamence's Intimidate and Aegislash's King's Shield. Chansey takes the special attacks aimed at the other two and covers Aegislash's Ghost weakness, while the others cover Chansey's Fighting weakness and low Defense. Salamence and Chansey have instant recovery moves while Aegislash has Leftovers, allowing the team to last for a long time. The team resists 16 of the 18 types (covering every type except Electric and Dark), with an immunity to 5 types. Of course, the team is no slouch offensively; Salamence and Aegislash can easily set up and sweep teams 3-0, while Chansey can outstall and wear down the opposition with Seismic Toss if necessary.

Power (Salamence) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate -> Aerilate
Level: 50
EVs: 100 HP / 212 Atk / 4 Def / 12 SpD / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Substitute
- Roost

(I used a Salamence with a different EV spread in the Battle Video, which explains why it has 173 HP rather than 183 HP.)

Overview

Mega Salamence is simply incredible in Battle Tree Singles. It has everything you want in a Pokemon: excellent base stats, a solid defensive typing bolstered by Intimidate, a spammable STAB move, one of the best set-up moves, and an instant recovery move. It completely lives up to the hype.

The moveset is standard for a set-up sweeper. Return is the STAB move of choice, as it has 122 base power after the Aerilate boost and no Pokemon is immune to it. Double-Edge isn't a good alternative, as the recoil defeats the whole purpose of the set, and Salamence should be able to fully set up and sweep with Return if used properly. Substitute is a staple move for set-up sweepers in Singles, as it protects Pokemon from status moves and nasty critical hits.

I wasn't sure where to go with the EV spread at first. You could make arguments for both offensive and defensive spreads: offensive spreads help Salamence set up faster and the walls can take care of any threats, while defensive spreads help Salamence set up since it should only be setting up against docile foes anyway. Eventually, I went with an offensive spread to help Mega Salamence hit right off the bat if necessary and take on certain Dragon Dancers, which are the biggest threat to this team. The Speed EVs allow Mega Salamence to outrun positive-natured base 110 Speed Pokemon, while the Attack EVs allow it to OHKO Mega Charizard X with a +1 Return. The HP EVs give it 183 HP, which minimizes residual damage, allows Mega Salamence to make four Substitutes at full health, and allows it to survive a critical Rock Slide from Terrakion-3. Finally, regular Salamence has higher Special Defense than Defense, which causes lead Download Porygon2 and Porygon-Z to gain an Attack boost.

+1 212 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 153-180 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Terrakion Rock Slide vs. 100 HP / 4 Def Salamence-Mega on a critical hit: 152-182 (83 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Salamence is the obvious choice for Power: its Mega Evolution has 145 base Attack, it can transform, and its Mega Evolution Pokedex entries describe it as a merciless killer.

Courage (Aegislash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield

Overview

Aegislash is the obligatory Steel-type, and covers all of Salamence's and Chansey's weaknesses. It's a standard Swords Dance sweeper; Sacred Sword takes precedence over the STAB Iron Head, as it gets better coverage with Shadow Sneak and allows Aegislash to break through defensive set-up Pokemon. The EV spread is a lazy 252/252/4 spread, but it's justified: max Attack allows Aegislash to always OHKO Spiritomb with +6 Shadow Sneak, which is useful against Cynthia and is more relevant than any situational defensive benchmarks. Aegislash needs max HP since its base HP is terrible, and the remaining 4 EVs go in Speed to outrun the absurd number of Pokemon with 80 Speed.

To be honest, Aegislash is my least favorite member of the team. It's more susceptible to status effects than Salamence, and has a bad tendency against Rock and Steel specialists to break a Pokemon's Sturdy, then get KOed in return. However, it's still a Steel-type that can set up and neuter physical attackers, which makes it invaluable to the team nonetheless.

Aegislash represents Courage: it fights with sword and shield, and it takes courage to effectively use a Pokemon with Stance Change.

Wisdom (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Minimize
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled

Overview

Chansey is utterly incredible. This Pokemon simply will not faint. It can effortlessly wall most special attackers and Ghost-types, and can even handle certain physical attackers. Chansey is the true backbone of the team, and is able to effortlessly outstall a good portion of the Tree so that my physical sweepers can switch in safely. Even though Chansey has Natural Cure, Substitute is still necessary on the set to block status effects and critical hits in case Chansey needs to stay in and outstall a Pokemon.

Minimize is the most misunderstood move of the set. You should not rely on Minimize to get you out of bad situations; it's simply there to help Chansey outstall opposing Pokemon by conserving its Substitute and Soft-Boiled PP. That said, it's cathartic to watch the AI repeatedly miss a +6 Evasion Chansey after years of dealing with the computer's Double Team users.

Max Speed with a Timid nature seems strange, but it allows Chansey to outrun a surprising number of Pokemon in the Tree and safely set up a Substitute. It also allows Chansey to outrun Clawitzer-4 and try to outstall it with Soft-Boiled in a worst-case scenario. Max Defense allows Chansey to survive Staraptor-3's Close Combat; it's a situational benchmark, especially since Salamence and Aegislash should be able to handle Staraptor, but it was the most relevant benchmark after running the calculations. Finally, the remaining 4 EVs are placed in Special Defense, since it gains 2 stat points with Eviolite (187 with 0 SDef EVs vs. 189 with 4 SDef EVs) as opposed to just 1 point in HP. (Since Chansey doesn't need its Special Attack, a spread of 4 HP / 244 Def / 4 SDef / 252 Spe would have 4 leftover EVs.)

Chansey represents Wisdom: it's female, it's the oldest Pokemon on the team, and it serves as a point of quiet strength for the team.

Team Advice

The team is fairly simple to use: simply find an appropriate member to set up on, and go from there. However, there are still several points to keep in mind.

First off, pay attention to the opposing trainer's name. Knowing which movesets you can face is key to using this team effectively, and being absent-minded can put you in a bad spot really quickly. Always have Skewter or TRE's spreadsheet and turskain's damage calculator on hand, as they are crucial to one's success.

Second, you need patience to use the team effectively. Sometimes, you'll have to switch around for ~20 turns in a row to outstall opposing Pokemon's moves, or have Chansey fully outstall an opposing Pokemon. You shouldn't always Mega Evolve Salamence immediately; sometimes, you'll want to stick with regular Salamence in order to neuter opposing leads with Intimidate. You can outstall QuakeSlide or QuakeEdge users repeatedly switching between Salamence and Aegislash, and oustall other Pokemon using similar tactics.

Always pay attention to the opposing Pokemon's PP. In the Tree, the AI will switch out when it can't damage your Pokemon with an attack. However, the AI will stay in if it can use Pain Split or moves such as Counter (presumably because they can inflict damage). Also, if a Pokemon uses Burn Up, it will repeatedly try to use Burn Up again even though the move will fail.

Once you're familiar with the team, you can take calculated risks with setting up Salamence. For instance, if you're facing a Pokemon that can only break Salamence's Sub with a critical hit, you can try and set up against it to save some time; the team is tedious, so you'll want to take safe shortcuts whenever you can. However, when in doubt, always go for the safe play.

Despite my warnings above, the team is forgiving to newcomers; even if you misplay, the team can still outlast most opposing threats. For instance, I misplayed heavily around battle ~160, and was still able to come back from a 1-2 deficit by having Chansey outstall the opposition for ~60 turns.

Threats

These Pokemon can set up with Dragon Dance (or Swords Dance in Terrakion's case) and destroy Salamence and Chansey with their physical STAB moves, while nailing Aegislash with Earthquake. They'll typically set up first turn, but occasionally they'll attack, and an inopportune critical hit can easily spell the end of my streak. Switching back and forth between Salamence and Aegislash to rack up Intimidates is risky, since the Dragon Dancers can simply boost their Speed in the meantime and overwhelm me if they manage to get rid of one of my Pokemon. Early on in my streak, I misplayed and nearly got swept by a Haxorus-4; I only won because it decided to use Dragon Tail instead of Dragon Claw on the turn that Chansey dealt the finishing blow.

The method for dealing with these Pokemon varies; for instance, against a Charizard, I'll probably risk a Dragon Dance since Salamence can easily handle Mega Charizard Y, while Mega Charizard X will typically Dragon Dance first turn. If worst comes to worst and Zard X KOs Salamence with a crit Dragon Rush on turn 1, I can always switch in Aegislash and try to set up while spamming King's Shield.

Defiant Bisharp-3 and Thundurus-3 are theoretically threats to my team, since they resist Salamence's Return and deal heavy damage to it, while King's Shield is ineffective since Defiant cancels out the Attack drop. The other Defiant users aren't much of a threat; Bisharp-4 arguably has a worse moveset, Malamar is weak, and Tornadus and the other Thundurus run special sets.

Certain moves will always hit Pokemon that have used Minimize and deal double damage: for the purposes of this team, these moves are Body Slam, Dragon Rush, Flying Press, Heat Crash, and Heavy Slam. Don't use Minimize against these Pokemon, or Chansey will face a quick death (not that it should face most of these Pokemon anyway).

Volt Switch users can switch out against Chansey and bring in physical sweepers, which can turn very ugly. For instance, Wally's Magnezone used Volt Switch as I switched to Chansey and swapped out for Garchomp, which put me in an awkward position since I didn't know if it was Garchomp-3 or Garchomp-4.

Certain special sweepers, such as Azelf-3, can be nasty since they can overpower Chansey. I actually didn't face this set on my streak, but it's something to keep in mind.

Flame Body users aren't a big threat, but Salamence can't set up on them due to the risk of Flame Body. Magmortar-3 is a nuisance since it has Cross Chop, and switch stalling is risky since Salamence can get burned by Flare Blitz on the switch. However, Chansey can generally outstall Cross Chop as long as it doesn't get multiple critical hits.

Also, here are some strange AI tendencies that I noticed. Unfortunately, I don't have BVs for most of these, but I'll be on the lookout in the future.

AI tendencies

• The AI doesn't seem to recognize ORAS Mega Stones or Z-Crystals when using Trick. In my old save file, I performed a few tests against Reuniclus-4 in Mock Battles. In the BVs, Reuniclus attempted to use Trick against both a Sharpedo with Sharpedonite and a Raichu-A with a Z-Crystal. Also, when I was playing through Moon again, the Golfer in Ula'ula Meadow attempted to have his Flame Orb Alakazam use Trick against one of my Pokemon with a Z-Crystal. (This is actually a bad thing for my team, since Manectric-4 may use Switcheroo on the switch-in to Chansey instead of recognizing Salamence's Mega Stone and using Thunderbolt instead. Game Freak needs to get their act together.)
  
• The AI still uses Teeter Dance against Substitutes, even though they have no effect.
• After the AI removes a Pokemon's item with Knock Off, the AI doesn't use Knock Off on the Pokemon again, even if the move is super-effective. For instance, after Lickilicky-3 removed my Aegislash's Leftovers with Knock Off, it kept using Zen Headbutt instead of Knock Off (40 BP vs. 130 BP). Perhaps this is a carryover from when Knock Off only had 20 BP?
  
• As I stated above, the AI will try to use Burn Up even if the user is typeless. I have no idea if the AI will switch out if a typeless Pokemon has Burn Up as its only attack.
• As I stated above, the AI seems to believe that Pain Split is an offensive move. When I was still using my Whimsicott team and Psychic Surge was in play, Spiritomb-4 kept using Pain Split against my level 1 Whimsicott rather than Will-O-Wisp, even though Whimsicott wasn't statused and Spiritomb was at full health. This would also explain why the AI tries to use Pain Split against Substitutes.
• I'm not sure if the AI realizes that sound-based moves bypass Substitute. As you can see in the BV I posted at the beginning of the post, Altaria quit trying to use Sing against Chansey once it was behind a Substitute. Also, a Pyroar-4 kept spamming Overheat against a Chansey behind a Substitute, rather than Hyper Voice. This needs further testing.
• I'm also not sure if the AI calculates Return's power properly. When my Salamence faced Ursaring-4, it kept using Aerial Ace rather than Return. Perhaps it was using calculating Return based off of Ursaring's base happiness? (A base happiness Ursaring has a 42 BP Return after STAB, while Aerial Ace has 60 BP against Salamence.)

Closing Thoughts

The Mega Salamence / Aegislash / Chansey team is as strong as ever. It's a very reliable team, and I strongly believe it can achieve 1,000 wins. However, it's very tedious to use, so I'm not sure if I'll try to go for 1,000 wins on my new file. I'll edit this post with links to QR teams for this team and my old Whimsicott team later.

Thanks for reading, and good luck with your streaks!

 

[AwesomeDave980]

What I seem to have noticed is that Wishiwashi in particular doesn't seem to discern between Double-Edge and Waterfall while Rain is active and will alternate between them if no water weakness is present. It's made it pretty easy to deal with. I've also wondered if they regard a normal-type attack as normal even if immediate conditions dictate that the move changes type, as they've made some unexpected decisions that way, also.

In this case, waterfall (with stab) and double edge have the same base power. Maybe the opponent's AI can't recognize when rain is there, and maybe the AI always does that when the opposing Pokémon has two attacks that will equally hit your Pokémon the hardest (like if a non-mega Salamence has dragon claw and double edge, and its facing your Porygon2).

 

[ReptoAbysmal]

Mildly interested to note that a Dusknoir attempted to use Will-O-Wisp on Araquanid twice in a row, in spite of its ability being "officially" revealed. Forget if anyone else reported the same thing much earlier in the thread.

 

[kneeshoeshoe]

The AI also still seems to not recognise Lightningrod users, I remember having MSceptile+Greninja out on the field and it kept spamming Thunder wave into Greninja. I'm not very sure about attacking Electric moves though, don't really remember.

 

[PikaAbuser]

Long time lurker here. I don't play competitive, I play strictly Battle Tree. Unlike many of you here, my goal for playing is not to reach the longest streak, rather, I want to take as many teams to 50 wins as I can. All the teams I created are based on a Mega Pokemon, and so far I've taken 5 teams to 50 wins. Except Super Multi. I am trying to post my teams, but how do I post those Pokemon sprites?

 

[kneeshoeshoe]

If you're looking for the animated models, I get them directly from the smogon dex entries (right-click > view background image > copy url)

Mimikyu's animated model.

http://www.smogon.com/dex/media/sprites/xy/mimikyu.gif

 

[Worldie]

Also, here are some strange AI tendencies that I noticed. Unfortunately, I don't have BVs for most of these, but I'll be on the lookout in the future.

• The AI doesn't seem to recognize ORAS Mega Stones or Z-Crystals when using Trick. In my old save file, I performed a few tests against Reuniclus-4 in Mock Battles. In the BVs, Reuniclus attempted to use Trick against both a Sharpedo with Sharpedonite and a Raichu-A with a Z-Crystal. Also, when I was playing through Moon again, the Golfer in Ula'ula Meadow attempted to have his Flame Orb Alakazam use Trick against one of my Pokemon with a Z-Crystal. (This is actually a bad thing for my team, since Manectric-4 may use Switcheroo on the switch-in to Chansey instead of recognizing Salamence's Mega Stone and using Thunderbolt instead. Game Freak needs to get their act together.)
  
• The AI still uses Teeter Dance against Substitutes, even though they have no effect.
• After the AI removes a Pokemon's item with Knock Off, the AI doesn't use Knock Off on the Pokemon again, even if the move is super-effective. For instance, after Lickilicky-3 removed my Aegislash's Leftovers with Knock Off, it kept using Zen Headbutt instead of Knock Off (40 BP vs. 130 BP). Perhaps this is a carryover from when Knock Off only had 20 BP?
  
• As I stated above, the AI will try to use Burn Up even if the user is typeless. I have no idea if the AI will switch out if a typeless Pokemon has Burn Up as its only attack.

It is my convinction, as I mention often on the Discord, that the AI in B-tree (cannot speak for previous facilities as I did not really commit to those) has a small chance to "do something completely random". It would explain complete nonsense like attempting to spam a status move vs a immune poke, Pain Splitting a poke that has less hp than the user, going for a resisted or even immune hit instead of a obvious 1hko, attempting to use Burn up twice (I did witness that as well myself), using double or triple protects (I did personally lose last streak to this), swapping a poke for no real reason, and other cases. I even witnessed a case of a Liepard Snatching Roost off his own team mate, causing it to be killed on the same turn.
My thought is that it's a intentional behaviour to simulate a "player having a brainfart" or a "AI doing a prediction" and just add another layer of RNG to an already very RNG-heavy scenario.

 

[PikaAbuser]

Thank you for your help. And how do I put them in spoilers to lessen the space?
Here are each of my 50+ win teams. I actually did not have all the right nature on my Pokemon either due to lack of access. or just being plain lazy in breeding, so I am listing the optimal nature and the one I actually used due to laziness. As you will notice, one of my Battle Tree philosophies is that none of my guys will share a weakness, since the AI will try its best to exploit if there is one.


Team Mega Mom (Super Singles)

Kangahskhan @ Kanghaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy --> Parental Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Brave Nature (Adamant Nature)
- Return
- Fake Out
- Sucker Punch
- Brick Break

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Veil (Rough Skin)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature (Jolly Nature)
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Dragon Claw
- Poison Jab

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252/ Spe
Hardy Nature (Modest Nature)
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt

Usually Mega Mom and Garchomp can just mop through everything. Tapu Lele is there as an insurance finisher. Lead with Mega Mom, Fake Out then Return usually knocks out someone. She can usually knock out someone else before going down thanks to her single weakness that the AI has a hard time exploit. Garchomp and Tapu Lele are basically "coverage for whatever you have left."


Team Mega Medicham (Super Singles)

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 ATK / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Bullet Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Fake Out
Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (Timid Nature)
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Signal Beam

Suicune @ Leftover
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Hp / 156 Def / 152 SpD
Quirky Nature (Bold Nature)
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I found that Suicune is VERY VERY good in the Battle Tree. With only 2 weaknesses, it is very difficult for the AI to exploit. I finally lost when it went down to Scope Lens Musharna that hit it critical hit Energy Ball every single time. The team leads with Mega Medicham, who can usually sweep by himself. I went with Drain Punch over High Jump Kick because consistency is the name of the game in the tree. Anything Mega Medicham couldn't sweep means Suicune can stall out. Suicune would use Scald against physical attackers to try to burn, or just spam Calm Mind against special attackers. Xurkitree is there to act as a finisher by going all out on coverage moves.


Team Mega U-Turn (Super Singles)

Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Ability: Swarm --> Adaptibility
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (Adamant Nature)
- Poison Jab
- U-turn
- X-Scissor
- Brick Break

Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature (Jolly Nature)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn
- Fly

Suicune @ Leftover
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Hp / 156 Def / 152 SpD
Quirky Nature (Bold Nature)
- Scald
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This is a modified version of the last team. Beedrill's job is to either OHKO, and if it can't do that, then U-Turn (usually into Suicune). Landorus job is to Intimidate, then U-Turn (into Suicune). I realize by now that Suicune is completely cheese in the tree, that is why Landorus replaced Xurkitree to further support it. Against anything that doesn't immediately threatens Suicune, it just means Calm Mind 6 times, rest up, sweep. And almost any Pokemon that naturally threatens Suicune are ones that naturally get OHKOed by Mega Bee or Landorus. Suicune can really carry lots of teams into 50 wins just by itself, so I might bench it from now on to give other guys a chance.


Team Megazard Why (Super Doubles)

Charizard @ Charizardite-Y
Ability: Blaze --> Drought
EVs: 4 Def/ 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Air Slash
- Solar Beam
- Protect

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Veil (Rough Skin)
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature (Jolly Nature)
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Dragon Claw
- Protect

Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature (Timid Nature)
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Signal Beam

Kartana @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252/ Atk / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature (Adamant Nature)
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- X-Scissor

75% of battles were just Heat Wave + Earthquake, repeat. Otherwise, Protect until the other guy can finish the job. Grass attacks on 3 of my guys because Megazard Y just really really hates Rock. This team is just all out aggression, it's probably the team I have that can get to 50 wins in the shortest amount of time.

Team Sand Explosion (Super Doubles)

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil --> Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature (Jolly Nature)
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Dragon Claw
- Protect

Gigalith @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Careful Nature (Adamant Nature)
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Protect

Azelf @ Psychium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Docile Nature
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion
- Protect

Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Docile Nature (Modest Nature)
- Flash Cannon
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Air Slash

The Garchomp was a straight import from the other teams. Depending on situation, first turn is usually Gigalith Protect/Garchomp Earthquake or Garchomp Protect/Gigalith Explosion, but the team plays very flexibly depends on the match-up. Both Azelf and Celesteela can switch in while a guy is using Earthquake. 3 of the guys are tanks, so the team won many battles based on attrition alone. This is my favorite team because everything just kind of works together seamlessly.

 

[kneeshoeshoe]

Thank you for your help. And how do I put them in spoilers to lessen the space?

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My team

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