Hey boss, I meant to ask, is there any particular reason the Multis section is still a WIP? Anything I or anyone else can do to help 'complete' it, as it were?
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Battle Tree Discussion and Records
- Thread starter Eisenherz
- Start date
Hey boss, I meant to ask, is there any particular reason the Multis section is still a WIP? Anything I or anyone else can do to help 'complete' it, as it were?
I've tried running an lead M-Salamence and Firium/Grassium Z Heatran VGC(I'll edit with the sets later) oriented sets to utilize with Lillie, trying to cover her weaknesses and providing most offense as possible while making the most of her support but the maximum i managed to get was to battle 28.
Lillie playstyle is just way too passive and the AI decision making just colaborates to worsen it. Grassy terrain for heatran is kinda nice and I appreciate the healings too but the dual screen strategy isn't even good in the tree to begin with(without even considering the pokemon she has chosen to play that role lol). In a facility where you have to win 50 battle straights to get an stamp and you're vulnerable to the most annoying things like crits getting through all her screens, paralysis everywhere, unpredicted flinches, burns compromising physical attackers effectiveness and even freezing most likely to happen the more you eat Ice Beams/Blizzards (my heatran getting frozen multiple times after the switch almost made me run flamethrower over heat wave to try to avoid that) are more than enough to screw your run, specially if you're without an well prepared team and partner in Multis case.
And I don't know if I got your point very well, what is the purpose of having an human partner running Lillie sets? To try to see if it really can work if the right plays/right mons and sets are used? If that's the case, it seems promising, unfortunately i don't think i have anyone to try those. And btw, mine Lillie Ribombee2 had Sweet Veil(thank god) instead of Honey Gather and it was delicious since while ribombee was in play at least i didn't needed to care about the sleeping ailment.
I'll still try anyway, so if anyone is willing to give some though/advice, I'll really appreciate \o/
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That's correct. It's more of a long-term plan for me, as I don't have any fellow Smogonites near me, but if I ever encounter one in my travels in the future, that's pretty much what I'll be attempting. At that point, I will switch TravelPledge's Ability over to Shield Dust (at bare minimum, to eliminate the possibility of freeze hax and Speed-lowering moves screwing up my screen setting). Light Clay holders were among the first facility sets I re-created way back when, so I would certainly be game for multiple attempts.
(hint hint for all of my fellow Smogonites, if you're ever in the U.S. and around the Boston, MA area sometime...)
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Smuckem If I ever traveled to the somewhat nearby Boston and took the time to arrange some multis with you, I'd probably want you to run two more viable sets than Lillie mimickry, at least until we both had the stamp :P
During the DPP days when for some random blissful reason GF allowed friends to do battle tower multis over the internet (what was so fucking hard about that to make you take it away?!??!?) a buddy and I used a Trick Room team (what else) and had a blast with it. Friend's only stipulation was that I had to be the setter for whatever reason, so I was sold.
So I would probably try to persuade you to do TR with me and we'd either run all shitmons or Oranguru/Hariyama/Mega x2 lol
If Gen 8 brings that back, superior hardware and whatnot, I'll be pestering someone to try it with me again, even if it means I have to supply all of the mons we use.
During the DPP days when for some random blissful reason GF allowed friends to do battle tower multis over the internet (what was so fucking hard about that to make you take it away?!??!?) a buddy and I used a Trick Room team (what else) and had a blast with it. Friend's only stipulation was that I had to be the setter for whatever reason, so I was sold.
So I would probably try to persuade you to do TR with me and we'd either run all shitmons or Oranguru/Hariyama/Mega x2 lol
If Gen 8 brings that back, superior hardware and whatnot, I'll be pestering someone to try it with me again, even if it means I have to supply all of the mons we use.
I'll be looking forward to that. I'll be travelling to the house of someone who plays Pokemon soon but we probably won't have the time to worry about trying to go to the tree with awful sets haha
Reporting a win streak of 139 in USUM Super Double Battles! Could've been longer, but I was distracted watching YouTube videos while I was playing, so I made careless plays in my losing battle. Nonetheless, I'm very happy I cracked the leaderboard for the first time (with the shiny event Tapu Koko :D) and I'm looking forward to get an even longer streak in the future!
Streak proof: Unfortunately, the Battle Videos I have saved were taken on Version 1.0. Now that I updated to Version 1.1 I can't view the videos, but I do have a photo proof down below.
Team/Importable:
Development:
How to use this team:
NOTE: I'll make a QR code for my team later today when I have time.
Now I'm one step closer to my goal of cracking the leaderboard in all three categories! I never did the Battle Maison or anything like that, so it's the first time I've ever had a win streak like this, which I guess is pretty cool. :] Hopefully one day I can hit 1000 straight wins in the Tree!
Streak proof: Unfortunately, the Battle Videos I have saved were taken on Version 1.0. Now that I updated to Version 1.1 I can't view the videos, but I do have a photo proof down below.
Tapu Lele @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 244 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Protect
Drifblim @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 244 SpD / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Haze
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 180 HP / 180 Atk / 148 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Protect
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 236 HP / 244 SpA / 28 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Protect
Drifblim @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 4 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 244 SpD / 76 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Haze
Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 180 HP / 180 Atk / 148 SpD
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electro Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Protect
I've always wanted to try the Tapu Lele + Drifblim combo, which was a strong VGC 2017 core first used by Cybertron. It was an interesting core; by giving Drifblim a Psychic Seed, it gets a +2 speed boost and a +1 special defense boost to start the match when complemented with Tapu Lele's Psychic Surge.
By the way, spreads are specifically for VGC, but hey, they worked anyway.
I previously attempted to use Metagross and Landorus-T around the Lele + Drif core, but after failed attempts in the 60s and 70s to Ground teams and Steel teams respectively, I decided to change it up. I added Celesteela to deal with Ground and Poison types, and in general it was just a good mon to have, considering that it saved me in close games (Leech Seeding to victory). Tapu Koko helped mitigate my Dark type weakness and was a good cleanup sweeper to have after one of my two lead mons fainted.
Now, on to explanation to movesets. Since my lead was Tapu Lele + Drifblim, Steel-types would essentially wall me and I would have to switch out Lele first turn. So I decided to give Lele Focus Blast and Fightinium Z, which led to Lele OHKOing most Steel-types, and essentially mons that were weak to Fighting-type moves (with the exception of Sturdy and Sash mons, but Drifblim could break those with Shadow Ball). Tailwind on Drifblim was of course for speed control, and I never failed to get it up due to Drifblim's initial +2 speed boost in the beginning of the match. Will-O-Wisp was to cripple physical attackers, and I opted for Haze over Destiny Bond to prevent setup mons from running through my team (i.e. Dragon Dance Gyarados, Quiver Dance Volcarona). I gave Celesteela Flamethrower for coverage purposes, and Leech Seed + Leftovers stall came in clutch in many situations. Tapu Koko had Grass Knot to deal with Ground-types such as Gastrodon and I opted to use Electro Ball over Thunderbolt to take advantage of Koko's high speed stat and Drifblim's Tailwind. Although I found myself OHKOing mons I wouldn't normally OHKO with Electro Ball, looking back I should've used Thunderbolt because it essentially is more consistent. If Tailwind wasn't up, I was risking the chance of missing the KO on some mons, such as Gyarados.
Fire teams are actually a tough matchup for this team, but Lele and Drifblim can usually take care of the Fire-types with Shadow Ball + Psychic 95% of the time, and let Tapu Koko and Celesteela clean up the rest of the enemy's team.
By the way, spreads are specifically for VGC, but hey, they worked anyway.
I previously attempted to use Metagross and Landorus-T around the Lele + Drif core, but after failed attempts in the 60s and 70s to Ground teams and Steel teams respectively, I decided to change it up. I added Celesteela to deal with Ground and Poison types, and in general it was just a good mon to have, considering that it saved me in close games (Leech Seeding to victory). Tapu Koko helped mitigate my Dark type weakness and was a good cleanup sweeper to have after one of my two lead mons fainted.
Now, on to explanation to movesets. Since my lead was Tapu Lele + Drifblim, Steel-types would essentially wall me and I would have to switch out Lele first turn. So I decided to give Lele Focus Blast and Fightinium Z, which led to Lele OHKOing most Steel-types, and essentially mons that were weak to Fighting-type moves (with the exception of Sturdy and Sash mons, but Drifblim could break those with Shadow Ball). Tailwind on Drifblim was of course for speed control, and I never failed to get it up due to Drifblim's initial +2 speed boost in the beginning of the match. Will-O-Wisp was to cripple physical attackers, and I opted for Haze over Destiny Bond to prevent setup mons from running through my team (i.e. Dragon Dance Gyarados, Quiver Dance Volcarona). I gave Celesteela Flamethrower for coverage purposes, and Leech Seed + Leftovers stall came in clutch in many situations. Tapu Koko had Grass Knot to deal with Ground-types such as Gastrodon and I opted to use Electro Ball over Thunderbolt to take advantage of Koko's high speed stat and Drifblim's Tailwind. Although I found myself OHKOing mons I wouldn't normally OHKO with Electro Ball, looking back I should've used Thunderbolt because it essentially is more consistent. If Tailwind wasn't up, I was risking the chance of missing the KO on some mons, such as Gyarados.
Fire teams are actually a tough matchup for this team, but Lele and Drifblim can usually take care of the Fire-types with Shadow Ball + Psychic 95% of the time, and let Tapu Koko and Celesteela clean up the rest of the enemy's team.
Lead with Tapu Lele + Drifblim. The Tree doesn't use the Tapus, so you will ALWAYS have Psychic Terrain up to activate Drifblim's Psychic Seed and Unburden ability first turn. If the any of the enemy's lead mons outspeeds Tapu Lele, Protect with Lele and set up Tailwind with Drifblim. Then proceed to nuke the most threatening mon on the opponent's side of the field.
If there is a Steel-type that isn't weak to Tapu Lele's All-Out Pummeling, such as Bronzong and Escavalier, switch out Lele to Celesteela and use Will-o-Wisp with Drifblim. Of course, the situation could vary and call for a different solution, but this is what I usually did.
If I see a Fire-type on the opponent's side of the field, I would always prioritize taking it down. Furthermore, if a mon used a stat boosting move such as Quiver Dance and Dragon Dance, I would immediately use Haze the next turn, and not risk getting rekt later on. Fortunately, sometimes the AI is stupid enough to keep boosting even after I Haze, so that was convenient.
Overall, Tapu Lele + Drifblim can destroy most threats and the majority of the enemy team before falling. Tapu Koko and Celesteela would then come in and simply finish the job.
If there is a Steel-type that isn't weak to Tapu Lele's All-Out Pummeling, such as Bronzong and Escavalier, switch out Lele to Celesteela and use Will-o-Wisp with Drifblim. Of course, the situation could vary and call for a different solution, but this is what I usually did.
If I see a Fire-type on the opponent's side of the field, I would always prioritize taking it down. Furthermore, if a mon used a stat boosting move such as Quiver Dance and Dragon Dance, I would immediately use Haze the next turn, and not risk getting rekt later on. Fortunately, sometimes the AI is stupid enough to keep boosting even after I Haze, so that was convenient.
Overall, Tapu Lele + Drifblim can destroy most threats and the majority of the enemy team before falling. Tapu Koko and Celesteela would then come in and simply finish the job.
Now I'm one step closer to my goal of cracking the leaderboard in all three categories! I never did the Battle Maison or anything like that, so it's the first time I've ever had a win streak like this, which I guess is pretty cool. :] Hopefully one day I can hit 1000 straight wins in the Tree!
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The zero happiness is something that I had hard programmed, since happiness isn't stored in the QR codes, and I couldn't find the exact number. Its some middling number iirc.
QR rental teams always have happiness 70 (regardless of the species' base happiness levels), so Return will have 28 power, and Frustration 74.
Great. I can implement this in my next build. The only reason is was 0 was just cause it was for showdown, and the paste I based my code on had the happiness, and it was left as 0
Damn somebody beat my Multis streak...now I'm gonna have to edit my resumé...
Anyway, first time back on these forums in a long while. Ever since USUM came out I've been smashing the battle tree with this new team. Once I saw Kommo-o's ridiculously OP Z-Move I knew I had to build a team around it. Had no idea it would work this well since setting up in doubles usually isn't the best strategy (Trick Room excluded). My current Doubles streak is ongoing at 290.
Battle #290: 5Z7G-WWWW-WWWC-76V3
Kommo-o / Mega Kangaskhan / Aegislash / Arcanine
Kommo-o (Totem) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Rash
-Clanging Scales (Clangorous Soulblaze)
-Close Combat
-Flamethrower
-Protect
Kangaskhan @ Kangashkhanite
Ability: Scrappy/Parental Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Fake Out
-Return
-Low Kick
-Sucker Punch
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
Nature: Quiet
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon
-Wide Guard
-King's Shield
Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 228 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 20 SpD / 68 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Burn Up
- Helping Hand
- Protect
- Toxic
The strategy here is quite clear; Fake Out with Mega-Kanga on anything that could threaten Kommo-o and then Z-Move. +1 Kommo-o is near impossible to take down without it wrecking absolute destruction on the other team.
Since Kangaskhan can flinch one opponent before Kommo-o gets going, the threats to this team are generally when the opponent opens with a pair of any of the following;
Anyway, first time back on these forums in a long while. Ever since USUM came out I've been smashing the battle tree with this new team. Once I saw Kommo-o's ridiculously OP Z-Move I knew I had to build a team around it. Had no idea it would work this well since setting up in doubles usually isn't the best strategy (Trick Room excluded). My current Doubles streak is ongoing at 290.
Battle #290: 5Z7G-WWWW-WWWC-76V3
Kommo-o / Mega Kangaskhan / Aegislash / Arcanine
Kommo-o (Totem) @ Kommonium Z
Ability: Overcoat
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
Nature: Rash
-Clanging Scales (Clangorous Soulblaze)
-Close Combat
-Flamethrower
-Protect
Clangorous Soulblaze is a Base 185 STAB Never-Miss Spread "Hits through Protect" move that gives Kommo-O +1 in every stat after hitting...it's insane. To put that in perspective, a +1 everything Kommo-o has roughly; the Attack of a Mega Metagross, the Defense of a Mega Slowbro, the Sp. Attack of a Mega Mewtwo Y (seriously), the Sp. Def of a Mega Blastoise and the Speed of a Mega Alakazam. So it's quite strong. A +1 Clanging Scales does almost as much damage as the Z move so the common strategy is to just spam those Clangers with the first 2 turns.
I originally went Bulletproof but never got targeted with Shadow Ball or Sludge Bomb so switched to Soundproof but there are no Pixilate Hyper Voice mons in the tree so ended up with Overcoat. Totem over regular to avoid Aerodactyl Sky Drop. Originally had modest but did the maths and found I could get away with Rash after accounting for the +1 Sp Def against slower mons with Moonblast or Psychic. I did start with a modest build with Flash Cannon over Close Combat, but CC is far more useful, I might look at the maths for Flash Cannon over Flamethrower for the fairy coverage.
I originally went Bulletproof but never got targeted with Shadow Ball or Sludge Bomb so switched to Soundproof but there are no Pixilate Hyper Voice mons in the tree so ended up with Overcoat. Totem over regular to avoid Aerodactyl Sky Drop. Originally had modest but did the maths and found I could get away with Rash after accounting for the +1 Sp Def against slower mons with Moonblast or Psychic. I did start with a modest build with Flash Cannon over Close Combat, but CC is far more useful, I might look at the maths for Flash Cannon over Flamethrower for the fairy coverage.
Kangaskhan @ Kangashkhanite
Ability: Scrappy/Parental Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
-Fake Out
-Return
-Low Kick
-Sucker Punch
Since this team is built around Kommo-o setting up it made sense to use a Fake Out mon to draw 1 attack away on the first turn and protect the star of the show. I had Power-Up-Punch for the first 100 or so battles but low kick has worked much better. PUP would just never OHKO anything, which is worth more to this team than getting the +2 stat boost. Worth me checking the calcs on scenarios that would need Double Edge over Return in the future to see if it's worth the recoil.
Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
Nature: Quiet
-Shadow Ball
-Flash Cannon
-Wide Guard
-King's Shield
The opening pair needed coverage against Fighting, Fairy, Flying, Ice, Psychic and Ghost. So here comes the blade. Fairly standard doubles Aegislash build. Wide Guard can be a life saver. I started out with giving it Leftovers to hold but I felt double battles don't last long enough to really get their benefit so went ultra-aggro with Weakness Policy.
Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 228 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 20 SpD / 68 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Burn Up
- Helping Hand
- Protect
- Toxic
Nice EV set ripped with eternal gratitude from Josh.C's team. Enough Special Attack EVs to take care of 2 potential threats; Mega-Metagross and Mega Mawile. Haven't actually done the calcs on the other EVs to see if it's worth changing. Burn Up of course works great removing the fire type and any super effective hits. I have also tried Snarl (effective, but the scenarios it is useful in are rare) and Extremespeed (too low power to be helpful imo) instead of Helping Hand. Might try an Aguav Berry for a bit but Sitrus has worked perfectly well.
The strategy here is quite clear; Fake Out with Mega-Kanga on anything that could threaten Kommo-o and then Z-Move. +1 Kommo-o is near impossible to take down without it wrecking absolute destruction on the other team.
Since Kangaskhan can flinch one opponent before Kommo-o gets going, the threats to this team are generally when the opponent opens with a pair of any of the following;
- Fairy Types - Obviously immune to Clangorous Soulblaze. Luckily fairy types tend to have pretty poor Defense stats so Mega Kanga can do heavy damage with Return. Aegislash and Arcanine combine to wall most fairy types.
- Fast Psychic Types - Latis, Azelf, A-Raichu...anything with Psychic really. Luckily I just protect bait with Kommo-o while Kangaskhan mops up with Return and Sucker Punch.
- Mons immune to Fake Out - Tough purely because I just have to make sure I always remember which threatening mons can carry Inner Focus (Lucario, Crobat, Gallade etc...). This also includes Ribombee (Shield Dust), Bruxish (Dazzling) and most dangerously Tsareena-4 (Queenly Majesty) which is Choice Scarfed and has Play Rough and High Jump Kick so can KO both of my opening pair. The strategy here usually involves a double switch, Aegislash for Kanga in case of Fighting move and Arcanine for Kommo-o in case of Fairy move.
- Soundproof - Clanging Scales and Clangorous Soulblaze are sound-based moves, so useless against Soundproof. Again a memory game. Electrode and Bouffalant don't scream "Threat" like Mega Latios or Gardevoir but they can be a nuisance. Ironically, opposing Kommo-o is a major threat to this team, if it carries Soundproof by pure luck. Solution to opposing K-o is usually to double switch, get the intimidate drop and revenge kill with Aegislash.
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Well I'm back at it again, and honestly USUM Tree has not been as fun to me, maybe because I already got somewhat bored of the SM Tree while playing it and still insanely miss my Triple Battles. I've built a Doubles team that looks suspiciously similar to many of the newer ones thanks to Kommo-o's new Z-move being ridiculously strong, but I only really screwed around with it to get the stamp. Looking to potentially invest in some changes and take this team far, though.
After I make some changes, I'm definitely looking to go for a leaderboard spot as I never actually got my SM streak to 1000 yet. But who knows - maybe Kommo-o is the Pokemon that will get me there. (Or, maybe Gen 8 will bring back Triple Battles and I can really shine again.)
Lopunny (F) @ Lopunnite
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Cute Charm -> Scrappy
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Return
- Low Kick
- Encore
Kommo-o (M) @ Kommonium Z
Nature: Timid
Ability: Overcoat
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Clanging Scales (Clangorous Soulblaze)
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Aegislash (M) @ Life Orb
Nature: Brave
Ability: Stance Change
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Atk / 36 Spe
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
Sylveon (F) @ Focus Sash
Nature: Modest
Ability: Pixilate
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Hyper Beam
- Hyper Voice
- Yawn
- Protect
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Cute Charm -> Scrappy
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Fake Out
- Return
- Low Kick
- Encore
Kommo-o (M) @ Kommonium Z
Nature: Timid
Ability: Overcoat
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Clanging Scales (Clangorous Soulblaze)
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Aegislash (M) @ Life Orb
Nature: Brave
Ability: Stance Change
IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/0
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Atk / 36 Spe
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
Sylveon (F) @ Focus Sash
Nature: Modest
Ability: Pixilate
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
- Hyper Beam
- Hyper Voice
- Yawn
- Protect
So my team focuses on what most Kommo-o teams have done: letting it set up to +1 in all stats with a damage-dealing move and then wreck the opposing team. I've wanted to use Mega Lopunny for a while and knew a Fake Out lead would be its primary usage. Definite pros of using Lopunny include a Fighting-type and what I believe is the fastest Fake Out in the tree, tied with itself (Lopunny-3). Interestingly, Fake Out users that I miss out on tend to target Lopunny anyway owing to its lower Defense, so generally Kommo-o is safe to set up. I was trying to figure out a moveset and Josh C. made a great argument for Encore, which has so far proved to be useful on some occasions, definitely more so than Protect. If I were to change anything about it, the only thing I would do is rebreed for an HA one, as I would be able to occasionally avoid paralysis when flinching Zapdos, Electrode and the like.
Kommo-o itself is, once again, dangerous with all its stats boosted. I originally opted for a special set but honestly, I've been disappointed with both the damage output and the lack of a Fighting-move if Lopunny becomes disabled or faints. I'm considering switching sets to Hasty or Naive in order to allow me to run Close Combat and Poison Jab/Iron Head over Flash Cannon and Flamethrower, as it still covers the intended types - Close Combat is even stronger with a STAB boost, whereas the Fairy-coverage move of choice would hit on the physical side and hurt MUCH more than Flash Cannon has so far. I'm also considering an Attack or Special Attackc boosting nature over Speed, as I sometimes feel that Kommo-o's moves lack oomph, but at the same time, the Speed boost helps Kommo-o outspeed a handful of Pokemon at +1, a specific threat being Mega Alakazam. Still, Kommo-o dishes out some crazy damage with Clanging Scales, fearing only Fairies. (As a side note, does anyone know if Clangorous Soulblaze still boosts stats if the move does not affect either opponent due to type immunity or Soundproof? Been to scared to test this myself.)
Aegislash comes in as much needed coverage against literally every type that threatens my leads. To be honest, this is my first time using Aegislash so I kind of ripped what seems to be the common Aegislash Doubles Tree set but transposed it to the physical side. I don't mind the weakness of Shadow Claw, since the main purpose is to hit some specially bulky stuff that Kommo-o and Sylveon can't really touch, especially some Psychic types that can take a +1 Clanging Scales and KO Kommo-o back. I've been impressed with its performance and can see why so many people use it now, though the item is a tough call for me. With the Z-move slot already taken, I settled for Life Orb, though thanks to Pav A Nice Day, Weakness Policy now also seems to be a good option. Perhaps I'll switch Aegislash over to a special set if I change Kommo-o to mixed and switch out my last Pokemon overall.
Speaking of which, please feel free to laugh at my Sylveon set. Don't ask me why when I thought of a nuke to get me to 50 wins, I chose to back my team up with Hyper Beam Sylveon. I'm definitely looking to replace it as I've basically been using it to fire off Hyper Voice when necessary, get a final kill, or Yawn something. Please suggest something to put in place of this, though legendaries will be tough as I'll be searching for those for a while on some trade forums (I hate training Pokemon to 100 for Hyper Training hahah).
Kommo-o itself is, once again, dangerous with all its stats boosted. I originally opted for a special set but honestly, I've been disappointed with both the damage output and the lack of a Fighting-move if Lopunny becomes disabled or faints. I'm considering switching sets to Hasty or Naive in order to allow me to run Close Combat and Poison Jab/Iron Head over Flash Cannon and Flamethrower, as it still covers the intended types - Close Combat is even stronger with a STAB boost, whereas the Fairy-coverage move of choice would hit on the physical side and hurt MUCH more than Flash Cannon has so far. I'm also considering an Attack or Special Attackc boosting nature over Speed, as I sometimes feel that Kommo-o's moves lack oomph, but at the same time, the Speed boost helps Kommo-o outspeed a handful of Pokemon at +1, a specific threat being Mega Alakazam. Still, Kommo-o dishes out some crazy damage with Clanging Scales, fearing only Fairies. (As a side note, does anyone know if Clangorous Soulblaze still boosts stats if the move does not affect either opponent due to type immunity or Soundproof? Been to scared to test this myself.)
Aegislash comes in as much needed coverage against literally every type that threatens my leads. To be honest, this is my first time using Aegislash so I kind of ripped what seems to be the common Aegislash Doubles Tree set but transposed it to the physical side. I don't mind the weakness of Shadow Claw, since the main purpose is to hit some specially bulky stuff that Kommo-o and Sylveon can't really touch, especially some Psychic types that can take a +1 Clanging Scales and KO Kommo-o back. I've been impressed with its performance and can see why so many people use it now, though the item is a tough call for me. With the Z-move slot already taken, I settled for Life Orb, though thanks to Pav A Nice Day, Weakness Policy now also seems to be a good option. Perhaps I'll switch Aegislash over to a special set if I change Kommo-o to mixed and switch out my last Pokemon overall.
Speaking of which, please feel free to laugh at my Sylveon set. Don't ask me why when I thought of a nuke to get me to 50 wins, I chose to back my team up with Hyper Beam Sylveon. I'm definitely looking to replace it as I've basically been using it to fire off Hyper Voice when necessary, get a final kill, or Yawn something. Please suggest something to put in place of this, though legendaries will be tough as I'll be searching for those for a while on some trade forums (I hate training Pokemon to 100 for Hyper Training hahah).
After I make some changes, I'm definitely looking to go for a leaderboard spot as I never actually got my SM streak to 1000 yet. But who knows - maybe Kommo-o is the Pokemon that will get me there. (Or, maybe Gen 8 will bring back Triple Battles and I can really shine again.)
You and me both! Half the stuff I’ve been breeding was done in waiting for that blessed day. For instance, I had gotten very excited when looking at Pyukumuku’s support options a while back, but it has no place on a doubles team. I still took the time to get an Unaware and have a couple sets planned for it, though.
On the front of things being optimized for future Triples, I know you had mentioned a while back that you were basically waiting for confirmation of tutors before making any movements of substance with TR Lurantis--now that USUM is here, how has that experimentation been going? I ask because I was talking with a couple of people yesterday trying to make Lurantis work in more standard teams.
Always good to see you still advancing, Charlie.
Cool to see a good level of activity here, and some nice streaks too! I've made a pretty slow start to proceedings in the USUM Tree, but before I go away for Christmas I'd like to briefly share this Grassy Trick Room team I've been testing. Level 51 has set me a benchmark of 300 wins to hit; if I manage to do it, he'll be impressed! Right now the team's sitting at 150 wins, but if I fall short, either way I'll come back to this post to elaborate upon at a later date.
Oranguru (F) ("Agent 9") @ Lum Berry
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/0
EVs: 212 HP / 164 Def / 132 SpD
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect
Camerupt (M) ("Hot Humps") @ Cameruptite
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Magma Armor --> Sheer Force
IVs: 31/0/30/31/31/1
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Nature Power
Tapu Bulu ("#unviabulu") @ Grassium Z
Nature: Brave
Ability: Grassy Surge
IVs: 31/5/31/27/31/3, Hyper Trained to 31/31/31/27/31/3
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def
- Wood Hammer {Bloom Doom}
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect
Stakataka ("Jenga") @ Chople Berry
Nature: Lonely
Ability: Beast Boost
IVs: 29/31/11/31/31/1, Hyper Trained to 31/31/11/31/31/1
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 SpD
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Wide Guard
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/0
EVs: 212 HP / 164 Def / 132 SpD
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Magma Armor --> Sheer Force
IVs: 31/0/30/31/31/1
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Nature Power
Nature: Brave
Ability: Grassy Surge
IVs: 31/5/31/27/31/3, Hyper Trained to 31/31/31/27/31/3
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def
- Wood Hammer {Bloom Doom}
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect
Nature: Lonely
Ability: Beast Boost
IVs: 29/31/11/31/31/1, Hyper Trained to 31/31/11/31/31/1
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 SpD
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Wide Guard
#66 vs Dancer Atalanta: MLYG-WWWW-WWWC-BW6F [Kingdra/Swampert/Carracosta/Beartic]
#100 vs Cynthia: 58QW-WWWW-WWWC-BWUE [Milotic/Togekiss/Lucario/Spiritomb]
#114 vs Veteran Xio: RHBG-WWWW-WWWC-BXWH [Aromatisse/Primarina/Florges/Mawile]
#120 vs Plumeria: SBPW-WWWW-WWWC-BX2Y [Gengar/Lurantis/Toxapex/Crobat]
#125 vs Gentleman Mechabob: XNAG-WWWW-WWWC-BX4D [Regirock/Virizion/Entei/Suicune]
#128 vs Aether Foundation Luke: UHKW-WWWW-WWWC-BX69 [Salamence/A-Ninetales/Aurorus/Espeon]
#134 vs Worker Omar: W2JW-WWWW-WWWC-BX7B [Armaldo/Golem/Electrode/Magnezone]
#142 vs Office Worker Jana: ZU9G-WWWW-WWWC-BX8F [Ambipom/Musharna/Komala/Aromatisse]
#147 vs Punk Guy Etta: 3LWW-WWWW-WWWC-BXAJ [Gyarados/Salamence/Mawile/Arcanine]
#100 vs Cynthia: 58QW-WWWW-WWWC-BWUE [Milotic/Togekiss/Lucario/Spiritomb]
#114 vs Veteran Xio: RHBG-WWWW-WWWC-BXWH [Aromatisse/Primarina/Florges/Mawile]
#120 vs Plumeria: SBPW-WWWW-WWWC-BX2Y [Gengar/Lurantis/Toxapex/Crobat]
#125 vs Gentleman Mechabob: XNAG-WWWW-WWWC-BX4D [Regirock/Virizion/Entei/Suicune]
#128 vs Aether Foundation Luke: UHKW-WWWW-WWWC-BX69 [Salamence/A-Ninetales/Aurorus/Espeon]
#134 vs Worker Omar: W2JW-WWWW-WWWC-BX7B [Armaldo/Golem/Electrode/Magnezone]
#142 vs Office Worker Jana: ZU9G-WWWW-WWWC-BX8F [Ambipom/Musharna/Komala/Aromatisse]
#147 vs Punk Guy Etta: 3LWW-WWWW-WWWC-BXAJ [Gyarados/Salamence/Mawile/Arcanine]
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Options I can suggest you for Sylveon would be Helping Hand (given both Lopunny and Kommo-O tend to lack that extra oompf of damage often enough), Misty Terrain / Safeguard / Heal Bell (get rid of those annoying status), or simply a coverage move (Shadow Ball? Psyshock to hit Blissey?)
It gets Superpower and Knock Off which is already leaps above what it had. Not enough to make it plow through teams on its own, but enough to make me want to include it in my pool of randoms.
Regardless of what this team ultimately accomplishes, it looks more than fun enough that I want to try it myself! Especially since I’ve got an optimized Bulu for it!Cool to see a good level of activity here, and some nice streaks too! I've made a pretty slow start to proceedings in the USUM Tree, but before I go away for Christmas I'd like to briefly share this Grassy Trick Room team I've been testing. Level 51 has set me a benchmark of 300 wins to hit; if I manage to do it, he'll be impressed! Right now the team's sitting at 150 wins, but if I fall short, either way I'll come back to this post to elaborate upon at a later date.
Oranguru (F) ("Agent 9") @ Lum Berry
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/0
EVs: 212 HP / 164 Def / 132 SpD
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect
Camerupt (M) ("Hot Humps") @ Cameruptite
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Magma Armor --> Sheer Force
IVs: 31/0/30/31/31/0
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Nature Power
Tapu Bulu ("#unviabulu") @ Grassium Z
Nature: Brave
Ability: Grassy Surge
IVs: 31/5/31/27/31/3, Hyper Trained to 31/31/31/27/31/3
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def
- Wood Hammer {Bloom Doom}
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect
Stakataka ("Jenga") @ Chople Berry
Nature: Lonely
Ability: Beast Boost
IVs: 29/31/11/31/31/1, Hyper Trained to 31/31/11/31/31/1
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 SpD
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Wide Guard#66 vs Dancer Atalanta: MLYG-WWWW-WWWC-BW6F [Kingdra/Swampert/Carracosta/Beartic]
#100 vs Cynthia: 58QW-WWWW-WWWC-BWUE [Milotic/Togekiss/Lucario/Spiritomb]
#114 vs Veteran Xio: RHBG-WWWW-WWWC-BXWH [Aromatisse/Primarina/Florges/Mawile]
#120 vs Plumeria: SBPW-WWWW-WWWC-BX2Y [Gengar/Lurantis/Toxapex/Crobat]
#125 vs Gentleman Mechabob: XNAG-WWWW-WWWC-BX4D [Regirock/Virizion/Entei/Suicune]
#128 vs Aether Foundation Luke: UHKW-WWWW-WWWC-BX69 [Salamence/A-Ninetales/Aurorus/Espeon]
#134 vs Worker Omar: W2JW-WWWW-WWWC-BX7B [Armaldo/Golem/Electrode/Magnezone]
#142 vs Office Worker Jana: ZU9G-WWWW-WWWC-BX8F [Ambipom/Musharna/Komala/Aromatisse]
#147 vs Punk Guy Etta: 3LWW-WWWW-WWWC-BXAJ [Gyarados/Salamence/Mawile/Arcanine]
Very cool, seeing Chople Berry on Stakataka surprises me - would it be possible to run Iron Ball + Fling on Bulu to both make it slower under Trick Room, and give it a 130BP Dark coverage move, and Rockium-Z on Stakataka instead? Rock Slide/Stone Edge accuracy always makes me scared, and having a Z-Move on a Beast Boost mon is alluring, while Iron Ball brushing up both Speed and offensive coverage feels like the "Scarf of TR" to minimize Bulu's faults.Cool to see a good level of activity here, and some nice streaks too! I've made a pretty slow start to proceedings in the USUM Tree, but before I go away for Christmas I'd like to briefly share this Grassy Trick Room team I've been testing. Level 51 has set me a benchmark of 300 wins to hit; if I manage to do it, he'll be impressed! Right now the team's sitting at 150 wins, but if I fall short, either way I'll come back to this post to elaborate upon at a later date.
Oranguru (F) ("Agent 9") @ Lum Berry
Nature: Relaxed
Ability: Inner Focus
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/0
EVs: 212 HP / 164 Def / 132 SpD
- Trick Room
- Instruct
- Psychic
- Protect
Camerupt (M) ("Hot Humps") @ Cameruptite
Nature: Quiet
Ability: Magma Armor --> Sheer Force
IVs: 31/0/30/31/31/0
EVs: 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 SpD
- Protect
- Heat Wave
- Earth Power
- Nature Power
Tapu Bulu ("#unviabulu") @ Grassium Z
Nature: Brave
Ability: Grassy Surge
IVs: 31/5/31/27/31/3, Hyper Trained to 31/31/31/27/31/3
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def
- Wood Hammer {Bloom Doom}
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Protect
Stakataka ("Jenga") @ Chople Berry
Nature: Lonely
Ability: Beast Boost
IVs: 29/31/11/31/31/1, Hyper Trained to 31/31/11/31/31/1
EVs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 SpD
- Gyro Ball
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Wide Guard#66 vs Dancer Atalanta: MLYG-WWWW-WWWC-BW6F [Kingdra/Swampert/Carracosta/Beartic]
#100 vs Cynthia: 58QW-WWWW-WWWC-BWUE [Milotic/Togekiss/Lucario/Spiritomb]
#114 vs Veteran Xio: RHBG-WWWW-WWWC-BXWH [Aromatisse/Primarina/Florges/Mawile]
#120 vs Plumeria: SBPW-WWWW-WWWC-BX2Y [Gengar/Lurantis/Toxapex/Crobat]
#125 vs Gentleman Mechabob: XNAG-WWWW-WWWC-BX4D [Regirock/Virizion/Entei/Suicune]
#128 vs Aether Foundation Luke: UHKW-WWWW-WWWC-BX69 [Salamence/A-Ninetales/Aurorus/Espeon]
#134 vs Worker Omar: W2JW-WWWW-WWWC-BX7B [Armaldo/Golem/Electrode/Magnezone]
#142 vs Office Worker Jana: ZU9G-WWWW-WWWC-BX8F [Ambipom/Musharna/Komala/Aromatisse]
#147 vs Punk Guy Etta: 3LWW-WWWW-WWWC-BXAJ [Gyarados/Salamence/Mawile/Arcanine]
To be honest I'm actually looking for a Pokemon to completely replace it overall if there are any suggestions for that haha. I kinda threw Sylveon in there as it was strong and I had access to Eevee but I'm willing and probably going to change that slot.
Call_Me_Charlie I would think that, since Aegislash has the Psychics and Fairies covered offensively, and Flying-types covered defensively--basically, there to cover the leads' asses--I would think that it would be something that then watches Aegislash's back, just in case.
Aegis takes care of itself with other Ghosts, Kommo-O can clear the path free of Fires, and Lopunny clears the path of Darks...so something to deal with Ground-types? Maybe something to the fight directly to Flying-types, should Aegis fall?
Also, RE:"...though legendaries will be tough as I'll be searching for those for a while on some trade forums..." that you mention these makes me think that you already have had some Legendaries in mind for that slot--what ideas have popped up in your head so far in this respect?
EDIT: I had it come into my head a little while ago that I haven't jumped into the Wi-Fi subforum for a while--I think I can take a look there for any Legendaries that you would be interested in and trade for them. Any ideas you get, let me know and I'll snoop/negotiate around.
Aegis takes care of itself with other Ghosts, Kommo-O can clear the path free of Fires, and Lopunny clears the path of Darks...so something to deal with Ground-types? Maybe something to the fight directly to Flying-types, should Aegis fall?
Also, RE:"...though legendaries will be tough as I'll be searching for those for a while on some trade forums..." that you mention these makes me think that you already have had some Legendaries in mind for that slot--what ideas have popped up in your head so far in this respect?
EDIT: I had it come into my head a little while ago that I haven't jumped into the Wi-Fi subforum for a while--I think I can take a look there for any Legendaries that you would be interested in and trade for them. Any ideas you get, let me know and I'll snoop/negotiate around.
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Take two on Buzzwole super singles ended at 46. Bold physical Def Calm Mind Fini with Aguav Berry and Taunt, same phys def shiny Buzzwole, SpD AV Heatran with a better EV spread. Much better team comp, so nice having the security of Fini's status protection and Taunt. Up until the loss the only matches that felt remotely threatening were the one where I struck a Raichu lead and it set up Nasty Plot turn one on my switch to Heatran and then hit two consecutive Thunders, and the one where Fini took down the opposing lead but used up its Terrain turns and took enough damage that I didn't want to stay in against the second mons strong electric attacks - naturally Tran got paralysed and then took several full para turns and a lot of damage before disposing of the offender.
The loss was another I could have won, Fini was set up to +3 or +4 and had taken down the first two mons, and then Mega-Medicham came in. It's Fake Out knocked me down to a couple of HP off triggering my berry, and then Psycho Cut got the KO. I brought in Tran, which got clean KOd by High Jump Kick, and Psycho Cut was sufficient for a 2HKO on Buzzwole after Leech Life and Leftovers recovery (although only just). Two things that I could have done was get Fini to +5/6 and let the second mon knock me down to trigger the berry, which would have assured survival against the last mon (I've done this a few times previously, but I didn't here), and against Medicham I could have switched back and forth from Tran into Buzzwole to try and get a HJK miss which would have netted the win also. Live and learn.
I think the Fini and Buzzwole sets and items are fine, whether Tran needs switching up or switching out is the question. It probably has enough SpD to make do without the AV, which could allow it a Z-Move to let it just delete the first mon opposing it, or possibly some recovery. The only issue here is that the AV does let it still check some tricky mons like SpA Tentacruel, which threaten the team across the board. Chansey could of course fit as an extremely effective special wall, SpD Toxic Orb/Misty Seed Gliscor also possible and the electric immunity would be nice.
The Buzzwole set is quite refreshing, things that have been threatening to other teams I've run like Wallys ScarfChomp are now 100% safe switch-ins and setup bait for Buzzwole, which feels kinda too good to be true at times.
Anyways, enough rambling, off to think some more.
ADDIT: Forgot there was some enemy AI behaviour I'd noted over both runs - the Weavile set with Taunt, which can't even really damage Buzzwole for more than its Leftovers recovery (even before Bulk Up) will stay for a couple of hits and then Taunt and switch. First time it switched it caught me off guard, second time I made sure to prioritise getting my Sub up and it replicated the behaviour.
The loss was another I could have won, Fini was set up to +3 or +4 and had taken down the first two mons, and then Mega-Medicham came in. It's Fake Out knocked me down to a couple of HP off triggering my berry, and then Psycho Cut got the KO. I brought in Tran, which got clean KOd by High Jump Kick, and Psycho Cut was sufficient for a 2HKO on Buzzwole after Leech Life and Leftovers recovery (although only just). Two things that I could have done was get Fini to +5/6 and let the second mon knock me down to trigger the berry, which would have assured survival against the last mon (I've done this a few times previously, but I didn't here), and against Medicham I could have switched back and forth from Tran into Buzzwole to try and get a HJK miss which would have netted the win also. Live and learn.
I think the Fini and Buzzwole sets and items are fine, whether Tran needs switching up or switching out is the question. It probably has enough SpD to make do without the AV, which could allow it a Z-Move to let it just delete the first mon opposing it, or possibly some recovery. The only issue here is that the AV does let it still check some tricky mons like SpA Tentacruel, which threaten the team across the board. Chansey could of course fit as an extremely effective special wall, SpD Toxic Orb/Misty Seed Gliscor also possible and the electric immunity would be nice.
The Buzzwole set is quite refreshing, things that have been threatening to other teams I've run like Wallys ScarfChomp are now 100% safe switch-ins and setup bait for Buzzwole, which feels kinda too good to be true at times.
Anyways, enough rambling, off to think some more.
ADDIT: Forgot there was some enemy AI behaviour I'd noted over both runs - the Weavile set with Taunt, which can't even really damage Buzzwole for more than its Leftovers recovery (even before Bulk Up) will stay for a couple of hits and then Taunt and switch. First time it switched it caught me off guard, second time I made sure to prioritise getting my Sub up and it replicated the behaviour.
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If it wasn't for Misty Terrain halving damage from Dragon-type moves, Tapu Fini would be a cinch. In its absence, I'm short on ideas - Azumarill (Wide Lens), Tapu Lele or Tapu Koko (can't stop the Tapu train), Mimikyu (Wide Lens).
Maybe Aegislash needs to be replaced with something different, say Scizor to free up a wider selection of possible back-ups. LO Scizor/Wide Lens Mimikyu priority duo, anyone?