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*Big* News for breeding in XY.

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Reikai, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast LOL STAFF FAG
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    Serebii, while usually fairly reliable, is known for occasional inconsistencies regarding mechanics. Rest assured that you can breed your male HA Torchic with a Ditto and get a female HA Torchic, then pass egg moves onto that Torchic and get HA Torchic offspring with egg moves.

    I spent hours doing this with Espurr.
  2. OmegaForte

    OmegaForte

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    Again suffering from the 2 flawless Pokemon syndrome. XD

    2 Timid Trace Ralts. Good thing the other is a male, so I can breed another in the future with little to no hassle. Thank you GF for adding a good mechanic to Destiny Bond.
  3. ratstar

    ratstar

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    Any idea what would happen if both parents hold destiny knots?
  4. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    My understanding is nothing happens, one Destiny Knot will be selected and the other ignored. In other words, there is no point. You should instead have the other parent hold nothing or an Everstone, depending on what you want to do.
  5. ApathyandToast

    ApathyandToast

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    So I'm breeding Rotom, but I need some suggestions regarding probability.

    I'm at the stage where I have a 31/x/31/31/31/x Rotom of an unwanted nature. I have a Bold Ditto with 31s in HP and Spe. Should I slap on an Everstone and Destiny Knot at this stage, or use Knot + Power Anket to get the 31/x/31/31/31/31 unwanted nature Rotom, then breed with the Bold Ditto with everstone?
  6. Hidious

    Hidious

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    Slap everstone and destiny knot, because the power weight isn't going to increase your chances of getting that 5 iv X nature rotom by that much and the chances of getting one anyway with only 6 total perfect iv's is pretty slim, and you have to do it twice! The mass hatch method is probably best. It's gonna take over a hundred eggs, so boil some coffee. Yeah, it really sucks to breed genderless pokemon, when you can only rely on a ditto with 2 perfect iv's. Luckily, I found myself a 31/x/31/31/31/31 ditto.
  7. ApathyandToast

    ApathyandToast

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    Ok thanks. I think I'm gonna go back Safari and do some mass Ditto hunting after this. Until I can bring my RNG Dittos over.
  8. Odinwolf

    Odinwolf

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    Does anyone know the probability that I'll get a baby with a Hidden Ability if BOTH parents have the hidden ability?
  9. Onicon

    Onicon

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    It appears like there is not much different from female with HA and male without. You still get your fair share of regular babies.
  10. Flareon

    Flareon

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    I can put this to the test later today, and I'll post my findings here.
  11. Andrew

    Andrew beep boop
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    Strangely enough, I seem to be having a similar problem/curiousity related to this. It happened when I was breeding Speed Boost Venipede and now it's happening again with Adaptability Corphish.

    With the Venipede: With M SB + F SB there seemed to be an unusually high number of swarm/poison points. and many of these rejects happened to be perfect IV spread :( The chance of the mother passing down her ability is 80%, no? I didn't record the numbers for this specific instance, but I was ecstatic when I switched to Male 5IV Skorupi + Female 5IV Speed Boost Venipede and Speed Boost after Speed Boost seemed to pop out, several with the Correct IV spread.

    Now, Corphish:
    Parents:
    Male Adamant Adaptability Corphish @ Everstone, 31/31/31/xx/31/xx
    + Female Hardy Adaptability Corphish @ Destiny Knot, 31/31/31/xx/31/31

    Out of 18 Offspring:
    12 Adaptability
    6 Hyper Cutter/Shell Armor
    so, with this sample size, 67% probablity of HA. It may increase as the sample size increases, more testing will have to be done for that.


    Obviously to be more accurate the sample size needs to be higher, and then I would need to breed an HA female + non HA male and record the results of the Offspring abilities, which I will do if I get a decent baby male non-HA in this batch. (I'll edit in more later if it leads to anything)

    I guess questions worth considering (if they haven't already been answered, sorry if I'm ninja'ing or stepping on your toes Flareon :

    Male HA + Female HA (Same species) ---what is the probability of Offspring with HA?
    Male Non HA + Female HA (same species) ---what is the probability of Offspring with HA?
    Male (Species 1) + Female HA (Species 2) ----what is the probability of Offspring with HA?
    Everstone and Destiny Knot ---Do these have any effect on the probability of Offspring with HA?
    Ex: Male HA (everstone) +Female HA (destiny knot) compared to
    Male HA (destiny knot) + Female HA (everstone) compared to
    Male non HA (everstone) + Female HA (destiny knot) compared to
    Male non HA (destiny knot) + Female HA (everstone)


    Once we have sufficient sample size from each group, we will obviously be able to tell if a certain combination influences the offspring's ability. Again, sorry if some of these questions are already known, but as I am relatively new to breeding they were weighing on my mind, and if there actually are differences (in this Gen) then that would be pretty huge.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
  12. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    Unless I am completely crazy (and perhaps I am) I am pretty sure that, from last gen, the possibility of the female passing down its ability was 60%. So, in the case of a mon with two abilities, the baby would have a 60% chance to inherit the mom's ability, while there is a 40% chance that the other ability is generated instead. For mons with 3 abilities, the percentage changes to 60%/20%/20%. So, your findings on Corphish would hold true.
  13. Andrew

    Andrew beep boop
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    hmm then that would really explain things...
    Im looking at serebii now, this is what they say:

    Standard Abilities
    Black 2 & White 2 has changed this. Now, the ability the Pokémon will hatch with is dependant upon the mother. If the mother has their ability in slot 1, then the baby has an 80% chance of hatching with that ability, and 20% for the second ability and viceversa if the mother has the ability in the second slot. This calculation even happens if the baby Pokémon or the moth only has one ability, since the ability is the same in both slots. For example, if you are breeding a female Pidgeot and it has the ability of Tangled Feet, the baby Pidgey will have an 80% chance of having the ability Tangled Feet and a 20% chance of having Keen Eye.
    The abilities listed in our Pokédex match the ability order so can be used for reference

    Hidden Abilities
    Normally, you would be unable to get these abilities through usual breeding. However, if the female Pokémon has the Dream World ability, there is a high chance that the ability of the offspring will be the ability it has listed for Dream World abilities. However, if the male Pokémon has the Dream World ability and the female doesn't, and if you breed the female with a Ditto, the Pokémon will definitely not get the Dream World ability.



    So they don't even list the exact percentage of HA passing.
    The Gen VI page also doesn't offer any exact numbers:

    quote : The most notable change is that Hidden Abilities, which previous required you to have the mother with the Hidden Ability, can now be bred without the mother having it. If the father has got the Hidden Ability, there is a small chance that the offspring will also have their Hidden Ability. However, this only works if you are breeding with a Ditto. This is even more useful considering Hidden Abilities are more easily found via Hordes and Friend Safari.

    this is all they offer and to my knowledge this is a generally known fact now.
    Scanning the google results, Im seeing results from 25%, to 60% to 80% to 20%, but can Neoseeker and askYahoo really be trusted? I confused :S


    edit: and maybe Serebii's High Chance = 60% , it's not that I dont take your word farranpoison , lol, I just need to do some more tests I suppose , lol
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2013
  14. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    Ahhh, that's right. I forgot. The 60% chance I'm thinking of only applies to Dream world abilities, now Hidden Abilities. So if you are breeding for Hidden Abilities, then my percentages are true (unless I'm wrong lol).
  15. Andrew

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    ok Im gonna chill out I promise haha. thanks for the knowledge farranpoison :)
  16. Andrew

    Andrew beep boop
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    Sorry for the double, but this is pretty long and on a slightly different topic, so...
    I haven’t seen any statistics of this matter, so I figured I’d go ahead and post, since this may be useful for newcomer breeders such as myself.


    Going from 4IV + 5IV mon to 5IV mon

    Parents: Male HA 31/31/31/xx/31/xx @ Everstone
    Female HA 31/31/31/xx/31/31 @ Destiny Knot
    Goal: 31/31/31/xx/31/31

    Sample Size= 18
    Results: (open)



    HA:
    1236
    1235
    1236
    12356 **
    1235
    1236

    135
    1235
    125
    135
    12356 **
    2356

    Non HA:
    12356 **
    2356
    235
    125
    1235
    235


    Probability of :

    31/31/31/xx/31/31 (disregard Ability) =3/18=1/6= 17%
    4 Perfect IV’s (disregard Ability) = 9/18 =1/2 =50%
    3 Perfect IV’s (disregard Ability) =6/18 = 1/3 = 33%

    31/31/31/xx/31/31 (HA) = 2/18 =1/9 =11%
    4 Perfect IV’s (HA) = 7/18= 39%
    3 Perfect IV’s (HA) = 3/18 = 17%
    The other 33% is occupied by Non HA
    Probability that, out of HA’s, you will get 31/31/31/xx/31/31 =2/12=16.7 %

    I guess the most important stat of this is knowing that if you are trying to go from a 4IV mon + 5IV mon, there is an 11% chance , or 1 out of every 9, that you will get your desired spread. I think this helps me to see, that when I am trying to move up the breeding ladder, it is statistically certain that I will see a set amount of 5IV’d mons, and that if I check 12 mons and somehow it is no dice, that it is probable there will be 2 or 3 5IV’d mons in the last batch.

    Note: Out of the 3 good 5IV spreads, two were female HA, one was Male non HA. I was in luck, since all i needed was a 5IV Male, but if you are looking for a certain gender/ability it may take more than 18 eggs to hatch.
    Gender Ratio (.5 for Corphish)* HA Probability(.6)=.3= 30% chance you will find the correct Gender/Ability Spread out of your 5 IV’d mons.

    I do not know how these percentages would translate given a ~100 mon sample size.

    Going from 5IV + 5IV mon to 5IV mon


    Parents: Male non HA 31/31/31/xx/31/31 @ Everstone
    Female HA 31/31/31/xx/31/31 @ Destiny Knot
    Goal: 31/31/31/xx/31/31

    (I took into account the factor that whether or not the Male is HA is irrelevant)

    Sample Size=18
    Results: (open)



    HA (10):
    2356
    1356
    2356
    12356 **
    12356 **
    1356

    2356
    1256
    1256
    1256

    Non HA (8)
    1235
    1235
    1256
    1236
    12356 **
    2356

    1236
    1235


    Probability of :

    31/31/31/xx/31/31 (disregard Ability) =3/18= 17%
    only 4 Perfect IV’s (disregard Ability) =15/18= 83%
    only 3 Perfect IV’s (disregard Ability) = 0

    31/31/31/xx/31/31 (HA) = 2/18= 11%
    only 4 Perfect IV’s (HA) = 16/18= 89%
    only 3 Perfect IV’s (HA) = 0
    Probability that, out of HA’s, you will get 31/31/31/xx/31/31 : 2/10= 20%

    The interesting thing here is that, whether you go 4+5IV or 5+5IV, your probability of getting the correct 5IV spread (31/31/31/xx/31/31) is exactly the same. I was surprised to find this out, as I was sure that the probability would be higher with two 5IV mons.

    The discrepancy between this:
    (4+5IV to 5IV) Probability that, out of HA’s, you will get 31/31/31/xx/31/31 =2/12=16.7 %
    (5+5IV to 5IV) Probability that, out of HA’s, you will get 31/31/31/xx/31/31 : 2/10= 20%
    is likely only due to low sample size.

    These findings surely save time by realizing that there is no need to replace your 5+4IV’d mon with another 5IV’d mon, unless you want generally higher IV’s for spitback trading or wondertrading.

    Again, I am surprised by this, and if anyone can point out why the probability of getting a correct 5IV spread is the same in both instances, I would be very glad to know.
    Regardless, It looks like there is an ~11% chance of both passing down the hidden ability AND getting the correct 5IV spread. I wonder, since the Destiny Knot guarantees 5 IV's to pass down , if the percentage isn't actually closer to 1/6 = 16.7%. (haha, yes actually, it is, if you are taking into account all abilities :D), but, 60%(HA rate)*16.7% actually equals 10%, which is very close to 11%, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that this is directly correlated to my manual findings, whose 11% would most likely approach 10 as the sample size approached 100. Edit: I can guess atm that these percentages pass on the the next higher tiers , being a 6IV'd mon + 5 IV'd mon, and a 6IV'd mon + another 6IV'd mon.

    tl;dr :
    The chances of hatching a 31/31/31/xx/31/31 HA mon from 31/31/31/xx/31/31 + 31/31/31/xx/31/xx HA parents is 10%
    The chances of hatching a 31/31/31/xx/31/31 HA mon from 31/31/31/xx/31/31 HA parents is 10%
    Simple math: 16.7%(chance of Destiny Knot choosing the right stats to pass down) * 60% (chance of Female HA passing down HA) = 10%


    Edit: After looking at some stuff about permutations and combinations, I am really unsure as to whether I did this math right. Confirmation or Dissension would be highly appreciated.
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2013
  17. blizzarddd

    blizzarddd

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    i'm at this stage in my rotom breeding as well. i have been stuck on a 4IV rotom for so long hahaha it is miserable. i can't wait to get to breed something that has a sex so i can actually finish it in a few hours
  18. GameMaster0000

    GameMaster0000

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    6 + 6 will have 1/32 chance that may get perfect 31 but what about 5 + 6 chance?
  19. Andrew

    Andrew beep boop
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    are you talking about if the 6th random stat will be chosen as 31?
    See, at first I thought that the probability that ANY random stat would be chosen as 31 would be 1/32, so the probability that you would get it in the 6th stat, if you have 31/31/31/xx/31/31 parents, or even if you have a 6+6, would be 1/32 * 1/6 = 1/192 = .5%

    With a 5 + 6, (31/31/31/xx/31/31 + 31/31/31/31/31), I think the probability would be the same, simply because the Destiny Knot could choose the 5 perfect IV's and you would still have to rely on RNG to give you that sixth stat.

    EDIT: Actually, the destiny knot *could* choose the xx stat. I guess there would be a 1/12 chance of this. Or an 11/12 chance that it would choose the right ones. So the probability that the Destiny Knot would choose the right stats AND the that the 6th random would be 31 would be:
    11/12 (chance that the DK chooses the right stats) * 1/6(chance that the correct 6th stat is chosen * 1/32(chance that 31 IV is chosen) Which would come to: 11/2304 or .47%


    BUT
    after reading about combinations and permutations, which I would assume would come into play given that the Destiny Knot chooses a set of 5, I am very unsure of this! Hopefully I will get around to learning more about this, or somebody who does know this math will enlighten us!
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  20. Andrew

    Andrew beep boop
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  21. Stale FIsh

    Stale FIsh

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    I never IV trained in the past so this will definitely encourage me to start doing it. This should make for way better pokemon if people really want to put the effort in it.
  22. Mieel

    Mieel

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    Technically, you can't IV train your mons - only breed.
    Ev's, on the contrary, cannot be bred and has to be trained.

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