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Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by Peterko, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. lolnub


    Feb 10, 2010
    Light screen wasn't used often, it was mostly filler. Only used it when I was sure Entei could kill the other pokemon so Pichu would do nothing if it wasn't for Light Screen.

    Fire types were not a problem at all lol. Non flash fire mons were just killed and flash fire pokemon were killed with HP ground or by switching in Latios, who kills those with ease. Scizor was just really cool against fires, because he delays them another turn when he protects and attracts all the fire moves. Bullet Punch also hurts a lot of flash fire pokemon (accept for heatran who is hit hard with Super Power).

    I'm now thinking about using Smeargle. It also has really low defenses. I will give it the same moveset as Pichu, but with Wide Guard over Light Screen. I Think it would work a bit better because Entei was almost always hit by earthquakes and rock slides. I hope I can get a bit futher.
  2. Peterko

    Peterko Never give up!
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 20, 2005
    Updated the list.

    Post any mistakes here in this topic.

    I haven´t played Pokémon since the 154 battles last Tuesday. Thus, I´m still sitting at 168 with Cloyster-Garchomp-Suicune v2. I´ll probably play a few battles / day in the next couple of weeks, depending on whether I feel like it or not. I plan on playing Diablo III afterwards, so that will be a longer Pokémon break for me.

    Keep up the good work guys and good luck.
  3. MrMarc


    Jul 31, 2011
    Battle Subway Super Double Battle Record: 75 wins

    Carvanha @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Speed Boost
    Naive Nature
    IVs: 0/31/0/31/0/31
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SpA

    - Dive
    - Protect
    - Aqua Jet
    - Crunch

    Entei @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Pressure
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 31/31/31/30/30/31
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP

    - Eruption
    - Flamethrower
    - HP Ground
    - Extrasensory

    I got this team strategy from lolnub, who got it from Pikiwyn. lolnub explained to me why this team works, so I thought I should give it a try, because I've never played the Subway (I'm sorry!).
    I never thought it would actually work, but it really does!
    Carvanha with is pathetic defenses absorbs all the attention while Entei can spam his powerful Eruptions.
    Carvanha can survive a lot of turns thanks to Protect, Focus Sash and Dive.
    Carvanha can even kill some treats which switch in later and don't care about the Eruption from Entei, like Flash Fire Chandelure, which he can kill in two turns with Crunch + Aqua Jet, but he loses his Focus Sash.
    I gave Entei HP Ground because of the opposing fire types like Heatran, or to hit Lanturn hard enough for a two turn kill.
    Extrasensory is mostly filler because Eruption and HP Ground can do the trick.
    Flamethrower is there to kill opposing Pokémon when they outspeed me with a multi target move, such as Durant with Rock Slide.

    However, with these two Pokémon I can't do much damage to water types as Swampert or Milotic.
    That's why I chose the following Pokémon to assist Entei with his Eruptions.

    Latios @ LO
    Ability: Levitate
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psyshock
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    Latios is the one who takes care of things as Milotic, Swampert or other bulky waters. Dragon Pulse is chosen because of the excellent coverage, only being resisted by steel. No Draco Meteor because the -2 Sp Atk sucks and Latios is often one of the last Pokémon standing, so he can't switch out.
    Psyshock hits opposing Blissey hard if my last Pokémon isn't active.
    Ice Beam and Thunderbolt have the infamous Bolt-Beam coverage and help with the water Pokémon and physically bulky Ground Pokémon such as Donphan or Gliscor.

    And for my last team slot I have chosen:

    Scizor @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Technician
    Adamant Nature
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spe

    - Protect
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower

    Protect was chosen because if the opponent still has fire types, Scizor can draw all the attention towards him and his team mate can finish the fire type.
    I've chosen Bullet Punch because it hits Focus Sash'ers and Sturdy Pokémon before they can attack again. It can also kill defensively weak Pokémon such as Jynx or fast frail Attackers as Aerodactyl.
    Bug Bite gets Technician boost and kills weakened Slowbro/Slowking.
    Superpower hits TTar, Heatran and Blissey, but I use it sparingly because the Attack drop really hurts.

    This is the Battle Video where you can see how I lost: 28-22012-32407.

    I totally forgot about Lightingrod and Overheat from Manectric. If I've just paid attention...
    But it can't be helped. I'm just going to do it again and I'm going to break my record.
    Smuckem likes this.
  4. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Ugh so fustrating.

    I just lost early with Sawk/Gengar/Metagross/Hydreigon to Maid Anguile who lead with Scarf Typhlosion and Fake Out Infernape. Sawk dies first turn and Gengar had 1 hp left. Normally I switch Hydreigon into Scarf Typhlosion and Scarf Entei but the threat of Close Combat is always there with Infernape (it usually Fakes Out but it has tried to psych me out with Close Combat and Flare Blitz before, and it would have just Close Combated me anyway). It's very annoying that she managed to pull that combination on me, it was the absolute worst case scenario, but it was bound to happen eventually I guess.

    Actually, Salamence would have done better here since it resists fire and fighting, but then Psychics are annoying. I guess I can't win. Latios would have been the best choice because it outspeeds Infernape.

    Maybe I should give Sawk Protect to deal with this better, but yeah Choice Scarf. Alternatively, maybe reducing Sawks defensive IVs to 0 would encourage less Fake Out and more direct offensive moves. That's the theory anyway, I have no idea how it would work in practice (and of course Life Orb Technician Ambipom could kill with Fake Out in that case, but Metagross is a safe switch-in).

    Oh well. I'm sure I could get to 100 wins if I keep trying again and again but I want to go back to singles. I'm gonna try Sawk/Scizor/Dragonite again, with some tweaks here and there that might make it work better (mainly Dragonite's EV spread).
  5. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2010
    Just hit a 70 win streak with my Battle Subway team on my White version. I'll put up proof once the streak actually ends, but I can now rest assured I made it onto the list at least!

    Here's the team (using Peterko's format for listing all their stats :D nice for EVs and shiz)

    The winning team (open)
    1. Ferrothorn (M) Bastion
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    Nature: Relaxed
    IVs: 31-31-31-09-31-00
    EV spread: 252-0-90-0-168-0
    Lv.50: 181-114-178-63-157-22
    ~ Power Whip
    ~ Protect
    ~ Leech Seed
    ~ Toxic

    2. Chandelure (M) Chandelure (He needs a nickname D:!)
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Nature: Modest
    IVs: 31-31-30-30-30-30
    EV spread: 4-0-0-252-0-252
    Lv.50: 136-67-110-215-110-131
    ~ Flamethrower
    ~ Energy Ball
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Hidden Power [Fighting]

    3. Hydeigon (M) Gamzee
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Modest
    IVs: 31-31-31-31-31-31
    EV spread: 4-0-0-252-0-252
    Lv.50: 168-112-110-194-110-150(225)
    ~ Dark Pulse
    ~ Dragon Pulse
    ~ Focus Blast
    ~ Flamethrower

    Basically, the idea behind my team is to abuse the cruddy AI in the battle subway and the tremendous defensive synergy of these three Pokemon. Let's just take a second to admire that synergy shall we?

    -Chandelure is immune to both of Ferrothorn's weaknesses
    -Hydreigon is immune or resistant to all of Chandelure's weaknesses except Rock.
    -Ferrothorn is bulky as shit and resistant to all the weaknesses from the other two that they don't cover eachother. Also did I mention he's bulky as shit?

    So, the fact that these Pokemon are immune to so many of each other's weaknesses means that whenever I encounter a Pokemon I can't flat out kill without risking getting KO'd myself, I can just switch between my Pokemon's immunities until one of the opponent's moves are out of PP, and then safely defeat it. I don't even have to get that far of course if I manage to Leech Seed or Toxic the opponent before I start switching, and when it comes to many coverage moves Ferrothorn is bulky enough he can usually get one off even against opponents with super-effective attacks. Into more specifics, Ferrothorn stalls out almost anything, and then anything that it can't stall out is taken care of by either Hydreigon or Chandelure. Hydreigon's Scarf allows me to deal with fast Pokemon that I can't reliably Toxic / Leech Seed, while Chandelure is about the safest switch-in imaginable for anything dangerous thrown at Ferrothorn. It also hits like a truck of course. Leading with Ferrothorn ensures I don't lose something a trapping lead (since none of them can touch Ferrothorn, and that exact thing ended my first attempt with this team). it also allows me to scout out what set an opponent is using with Protect, so I can properly react. Not to mention he's frequently able to stall out entire teams by himself.

    So there, if anyone sees any ways I can improve this team before I keep going that'd be much appreciated. I wonder how far I can go before hax catches up to me... I've had a couple really close games, usually due to Sleep or Freeze (Hydreigon won one match for me with 2HP left after Ferrothorn got critted twice in a row and frozen by consecutive out-of-hail blizzards. I shit you not. Of course it didn't give me the option to save that video >.>). But overall, this team handles everything with ease. Well except for Tornadus with Hurricane, that thing is fucking rough but I can beat it.
  6. lolnub


    Feb 10, 2010
    Battle Subway Super Double: 141

    Cresselia @ Lum Berry
    Relaxed Nature
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    IVs: 31/8/31/31/31/0
    Lvl 50 stats: 227 HP / 79 Atk / 189 Def / 95 SpA / 151 SpD / 81 Spe
    - Trick Room
    - Helping Hand
    - Light Screen
    - Psychic

    My Trick Room setter and she was awesome at that. With Full Defense she lives so many hits. Most memorable was when she lived a shadow ball from Chandelure and a Iron Ball fling from Golurk with about 10 HP! Helping Hand was also really cool and helped so much, because it let Scrafty hit so much harder (especially when it didn’t have any boosts). Light Screen because I dumped all EVs in Defense so she could use some more Special Bulk. If I would do another run I would probably change that to Safeguard, because of all those stupid confusions, freezes and paralyses. I gave Cresselia Lum Berry because of those moves, so I wasn’t screwed when they froze my Cresselia when I try to set-up Trick Room. Psychic was used as a filler move and to do something against poison and especially Fighting Pokemon, who can kill my Scrafty. Everyone who wants to try Trick Room should use Cresselia , because she can take so many hits (not even close at being KOd by a Fling Iron Ball Tyranitar!), so it is guaranteed to set-up Trick Room.

    Scrafty @ Life Orb
    Brave Nature
    Abillity: Moxie
    EVs:252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    Lvl 50 Stats: 172 HP / 156 Atk / 136 Def / 65 SpA / 135 SpD / 56 Spe
    - Drain Punch
    - Crunch
    - Fake Out
    - Fire Punch

    I first wanted to use Hariyama in this spot because it has more fire power to start with and is slower. Then I thought about using Helping Hand + Life Orb and I never regretted it. It is still a bit weak at the start, but hits significantly harder. Drain Punch was awesome, because with that move he stayed alive so much longer. Crunch was for psychics, ghosts and stuff Drain Punch doesn’t hit hard (Poison, Flying and Bug Types). Fire Punch was used especially for Escavalier, but also for Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor. When Escavalier Leads I kill it immediately with Fire Punch, so it can’t hit Cresselia, so Cresselia can set-up Trick Room.

    Octillery @ Expert Belt
    Quiet Nature
    Ability: Suction Cups
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    IVs: 31/16/31/31/31/0
    Lvl 50 Stats: 182 HP / 118 Atk / 95 Def / 172 SpA / 96 SpD / 45 Spe
    - Water Spout
    - Ice Beam
    - Flamethrower
    - Energy Ball

    Octillery was a failsafe back-up when Scrafty fainted early. Helping Hand Water Spouts hit so damn hard. Every other move is for when he is low on HP or when he has to kill something (Mostly Ground-Waters with Energy Ball). No protect, because every move is to important to delete. Expert Belt is for his awesome coverage and becauses Life Orb is taken by Scrafty. I also never felt he needed it.

    Eelektross @ Flying Gem
    Brave Nature
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
    IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/0
    Lvl 50 Stats: 192 HP / 183 Atk / 100 Def / 125 SpA / 101 SpD / 49 Spe
    - Wild Charge
    - Acrobatics
    - Brick Break
    - Protect

    At the beginning I was unsure if Eelektross was good enough, but it has proven itself worth with his hard hitting Wild Charges and (Flying Gem) Acrobatics. He was my main check against Watertrainers, because Scrafty didn’t do to well, because most waters are so bulky. Brick Break was mostly filler, but was sometimes useful against Tyranitars and Blisseys. Protect because it is Protect and Eelektross didn’t need any other move there.

    I mostly wanted to try this team to see if it was better then Tailwind. It is harder to set-up, but it lasts one turn longer. The Pokemon can also be lot bulkier, because they don’t need to invest in speed. Still, I think Tailwind is better, especially because you can outspeed everything and you are not that screwed when Tailwind peters out. When TR is over you almost always have to get it back up ASAP. Still, this team was awesome to use. Moxie Scrafty has proven itself as an really good Pokemon, especially with Helping Hand support.

    Ofcourse, there where also some problems. The biggest problem are strong Hammer Arm Pokemon, such as Rhyperior 4. They can kill Scrafty and become faster and faster in TR. I saw this Rhyperior 2 times in a row and both times where really tough battles.
    OHKO moves are ofcourse dangerous, but Scrafty can Fake Out the OHKO user, so Cresselia Can set up Trick Room and then kill the OHKO user. Basically everything that can stop my attempts to set up Trick Room is dangerous. This are things with taunt and Inner focus/Ghosts. Double ghosts like Gengar + Chandelure (never met those 2 together) are really dangerous because they can kill Cresselia together and Scrafty can’t Fake out those. I could have missed something, but this were the most dangerous things to face (outside of the usual hax with Quick Claw, Brightpowder/Lax Incense, etc.).
    Cursers where no real problem, because the only thing they did was curse, so I killed the ally. When TR is over I outspeed and can kill the curser, most of the time with Octillery, who owns those.
    Iron Ball Pokemon where also almost no threat, because Cresselia is such a beast and tanks those flings easily (even those STAB Flings from

    How I lost (Psychic Boldbad: Slowbro (open)
    Turn 1:
    Slowbro and Dusknoir out.
    Dusknoir shadow Sneak Cresselia (191/227)
    Cresselia Light Screen
    Scrafty Crunch Dusknoir (to Yellow, 20%)
    Slowbro Blizzard (Scrafty 129/172, Cresselia 171/227)

    Turn 2:
    Cresselia Psychic Slowbro (95%)
    Dusknoir Destiny bond Scrafty
    Scrafty Crunch Dusknoir (both KO)
    Slowbro Blizzard Cresselia avoided the attack

    I Send Out Eelektross
    Opp Send out Starmie

    Turn 4:
    Cresselia Helping Hand Eelektross
    Starmie Psychic Eelektross, Critical Hit (Eelektross 21/192)
    Eelektross Wild Charge Slowbro (Both KO)

    I send out Octillery out
    Opp send out Reuniclus

    Turn 5:
    Starmie Thunderbolt Octillery (101/182)
    Reuniclus Trick (toxic Orb Cresselia, Lum Berry Reuniclus)
    Octillery Waterspout Critical hit Starmie (Reuniclus 85%, Starmie 60%)
    Cresselia Trick Room

    Turn 6:
    Reuniclus psychic Octillery (42/182)
    Octillery Energy Ball (KO Starmie)
    Cresselia Psychic Reuniclus)
    Cresselia hurt by poison (157/227)

    Turn 7:
    Octillery Flamethrower Reuniclus (Yellow, about 30%)
    Reuniclus Focus Blast Octillery (KO)
    Cresselia Light Screen
    Cresselia hurt by poison (129/227)

    Turn 8:
    Reuniclus Psychic Cresselia (111/227)
    Cresselia Psychic Reuniclus (35%)
    Cresselia Hurt by Poison (69/227)

    Turn 9:
    Reuniclus Psychic Creseslia (51/227)
    Cresselia Psychic Reuniclus (20 %, in Red))
    Cresselia hurt by Poison (KO)


    Yep, I lost because of misplay and a bit of bad luck. But seriously, if I had checked the list I would have targeted Slowbro with a Helping Hand Crunch and Leave that stupid Dusknoir alone. It wasn’t that bad, until Starmie gets a crit against Eelektross. Oh well, it was really fun to play with this team and it also is the first Trick Room team over 100 wins (my goal). What a difference with gen 4, where almost all teams were Trick Room teams and get to much higher numbers. Sadly, Gen5 nerved Trick Room with Explosion nerve and automatic level-up, but it is still fun and possible to get a good streak with!

    oh yeah, 200th post :).
    Smuckem likes this.
  7. RiggyRob


    Jan 12, 2012
    Fuck you, Roughneck Ganymed.

    I've got a new streak of 169 wins with my Staraptor/Garchomp/Suicune team, this time using a combination of Twash's stat list and Serebii's Trainer Catalogue to help scout the Pokemon. Unfortunately, I misplayed badly again:

    Initial matchup, Staraptor v Wailord
    Turn 1: Brave Bird KO (didn't want to risk a Fissure OHKO on Suicune on the switch), Donphan in.
    Turn 2: Attempted Brave Bird, Quick Claw activates, Stone Edge KO, Suicune in.
    Turn 2: Suicune Sub, Donphan Seed Bomb, Sub gone
    Turn 3: Suicune Sub, Donphan Seed Bomb, Sub gone
    Turn 4: Attempted Sub, Quick Claw activates, Donphan Seed Bomb, unable to Sub
    Turn 5: Suicune ChestoRest, Donphan Earthquake
    Turn 6: Suicune Sub, Donphan Seed Bomb, Sub gone
    Turn 7: Attempted Sub, Quick Claw activates, Donphan critical hit Seed Bomb, unable to Sub
    Turn 8: Suicune Rest, Donphan Earthquake
    Turn 9: Suicune asleep, Donphan critical hit Seed Bomb KO, Garchomp in
    Turn 10: Garchomp Outrage, Donphan Earthquake
    Turn 11: Garchomp Outrage KO, confusion, Rapidash in
    Turn 12: Garchomp Outrage, Focus Sash, Rapidash Horn Drill KO

    First obvious mistake I guess was trying to attack Donphan, which was necessary to break Sturdy, but on the other hand if I had fully set up Suicune on the Wailord I would've breezed past Ganymed with no trouble at all. God-damn OHKO moves.

    Proof: http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/444/20121e.jpg
  8. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    @ RiggyRob: Bad luck. I still think Quick Claw Sturdy Donphan is the absolute worst OHKO user in the subway (not that it tried Fissure but still). I don't think there was any real risk with switching Suicune in straight away. I really doubt Wailord would try Fissure on Staraptor. Then again, I've seen opponents try to Earthquake Dragonite repeatedly. I guess if you were concerned about it you could have sacrificed Garchomp to get Suicune in for free.

    Of course, this is talking under the assumption that you knew his team before hand because even if you had set up Suicune completely you still could have lost to Rapidash if it got 2 consecutive Horn Drill hits (due to Focus Sash). If you didn't have sub up you would only need one hit.

    There's not much you can do about it really. Most of the time the OHKO trainers are fairly easy but if you get unlucky you can lose.

    I guess you aren't running Choice Band on Staraptor anymore, right?

    @ lolnub: I like the idea of a Helping Hand user with Scrafty. Scrafty's power before Moxie is a bit underwhelming (especially against Intimidate leads). Too bad Cresselia's speed isn't lower but it obviously worked for you so well done.


    So I haven't played a whole lot, just a few sets a day. I'm still using Sawk/Scizor/Dragonite. I made some changes:
    • Taunt over Reversal on Sawk. Taunt Choice Scarf seems dumb but I need it for Hippowdon who is a massive threat because of Curse (especially the Curse-Rest one). Before I would have to Close Combat twice while it Cursed and then KOed Sawk (thank you Sand Stream). Then I would finish it off with Scizor or Dragonite. This would leave me with one pokemon gone and an unboosted one out. Not ideal. With Taunt, I can block Curse and then try set up with a backup. I've only tried it once. Scizor took 2 Earthquakes but got 1 Swords Dance up and 2HKOed Hippowdon (it tried to Curse after Taunt ended rather than kill me). This still isn't an ideal situation but having a boosted sweeped and all pokemon alive is better than what I had before.
    • Adamant 252att/252speed/4hp spread on Dragonite rather than Jumpman's bulky spread, which was not really applicable to the moveset I'm using. This allows me to outspeed more things after 1 Dragon Dance, most of which I can KO. I do miss the bulk sometimes though. Multiscale doesn't work as well when you don't invest in bulk (in the sense that it doesn't often change the number of hits required to KO Dragonite) but it still guards against most crits at least. I'm considering adjusting the spread to outspeed only certain threats after 1 boost to allow me to invest in bulk a bit, but I haven't really thought about what that would be. Aiming for Weavile is ok but it wouldn't change the spread much and both Sawk and Scizor can beat it most of the time. I'll think about it.
    I'm also considering Roost on Scizor over Superpower but that would require a new Scizor. Fot now I think I'm gonna wait until B2W2 come out and see if they make it a move tutor move. If they do I'll just keep the Scizor I have now. Of course if I just can't wait until it come out I might do 4th gen RNG abuse again.

    So far the team has been working great but I've only gotten to just above 70 wins due to misplay + hax combos. My 2 most recent losses were at 50 wins and 51 wins, both to Regigigas. 1st one was Brightpowder/Double Team hax. The second one was to Thunderwave + Confuse Ray + Rock Slide hax, but I misplayed badly to get into that situation so go figure.

    Oh well. I'll just keep plugging away. I want to at least better 118 wins.
  9. RiggyRob


    Jan 12, 2012
    Actually no, I kept the Choice Band on Staraptor - I don't know why I said I attempted U-Turn, I'm tired I guess. I tried to use Brave Bird again to at least ensure Sturdy was broken, then I would've tried to KO with either of Suicune or Garchomp.

    Yeah, not setting up Suicune on Wailord was the misplay - I wasn't concentrating properly, since of course the AI shouldn't use Fissure on Staraptor, and from there it's simple stall out Fissure and set up. There was the possibility that Wailord could have activated it's Quick Claw and KO'd Suicune as well though, and I could have also played as I did but switched between Staraptor and Suicune to get repeated Intimidates off so that Suicune could survive a hit from Seed Bomb, but I guess there are lots of possibilities I could have taken instead.

    I had the list of Pokemon on Serebii and after Donphan and Wailord, there was a 3/10 chance of getting a Pokemon with Focus Sash, so it wasn't unexpected really, plus Garchomp was already confused after a 2 turn Outrage. I'm happy with it anyway, it should mean I move up into the top 20 on the leaderboard.
  10. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2010
    Biker Philipo just gave me the scare of my life. My god I wish I had been able to save this replay but nooo not on battle 102, that's not the seventh so nope. My team is a couple posts above btw.

    Anyway, so I'm against Dragonite 4 at first, and I see that basically the only way I can beat it is by PP-stalling Super Power by switching. No big deal, I do this all the time with my team. But then the fucker starts using Thunder Punch and Fire Punch as I switch to Hydeigon, which isn't a huge deal but annoys me because I expect him to use EQ. They've started not using SE attacks on occasion and even immune ones recently which makes me worry considering my plan hinges on manipulating the AI. But thankfully, he keeps using Superpower reliably as I switch back to Chandelure, so I just endure the slight wittling at my HP. Then just as I'm about to do my final switch, disaster strikes and Thuderpunch Paralyzes Hydreigon. In disbelief, I switch to Chandy and try attacking realizing that I could no longer outspeed it with Hydreigon. I bet on him using Thunder Punch or Fire Punch, and sure enough he uses Thunderpunch... which paralyzes Chandy. Now I'm pretty much giving up, but I go for Shadow Ball again to finish him and he uses Fire Punch for some reason, allowing me to KO him. Then out comes his own Hydeigon and all my relief goes down the tube. I switch to Ferrothorn knowing at least he won't attack me super-effectively on the switch since Chandy is immune to both Ferrothorn's weakenesses, and get hit by Dragon Rush. A quick check and I see Hydreigon 4 has Dragon Rush and is also handily walled by Ferrothorn! Rejoicing, I click Leech Seed... and am promptly OHKO'd by fire blast. Apparently Hydreigon 2 has Dragon Rush too. Now sure I'm fucked, I bring in my own Hydreigon, knowing my only hope is that his inaccurate moves miss and I KO with Dragon Pulse, and avoid the FP. Amazingly, exactly that happens, and to my joy the final Pokemon that emerges is a Spiritomb. There's a chance Hydreigon walls it completely so I just keep clicking Dragon Pulse. It keeps using Shadow Sneak. Unfortunately, Hydreigon is at very low HP by now and it'd only take one FP to finish him, and Dragon Pulse is a 3HKO. And then it happens, I get FP'd I leave it at around 1/3 health left and my paralyzed Chandelure comes in. Now sure I've lost, I click Flamethrower and wait to die. Shadow Sneak is used again and I watch the HP fall... and stop at 6HP. Flamethrower hits and KOs, and even though Chandy dies from LO recoil and I'm left without any Pokemon I win!

    TL:DR I had the haxiest game ever and somehow emerged the victor in a technical draw where no Pokemon were left on the field. It was nuts.

    Anyway, again proof will be coming as soon as I actually end my streak, barring crazy hax like that last match it should keep on going for a long while. GL to everyone else!
  11. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    @ RiggyRob: Roughneck Ganymed's Wailord doesn't hold Quick Claw, it holds Zoom Lens. There was no need to worry once Suicune was in.

    @ Jimera0: It is actually possible to save battles that aren't the last battle of a set. Just select the record option (I think that's what the option is called; I don't have my game on me right now) after you win.
  12. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2010
    Crap I totally forgot about that. Of course I've never really done anything with Battle Videos up until now so >.<. Anyway, I guess I'll remember that for the future. Now up to 105 wins btw, stopped for the night but I'll resume sometime tomorrow for sure.
  13. RiggyRob


    Jan 12, 2012

    Ah well, I was only trying out my team again cause I can't evolve my Tyrogue into Hitmontop right now, I think I'll have a go at Doubles and see what I can do there.
  14. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    Yeah I've been playing a lot over a last day or two with Sawk/Scizor/Dragonite, and managed to improve the streak slightly to 135 wins.

    I already discussed the changes I made here:

    I included that bit about Roost on Scizor too, because I do still think it would be better than Superpower. There are definitely times where I would think to myself "gee I sure would like to recover here". It's improtant to note that Scizor without Roost can still get to 6+ attack quite often, but it'll likely be wounded to the point where it might be revenge killed as it tries to sweep (by something faster that can survive 6+ Bullet Punch). Roost would help avoid these situations.

    I lost to a worker who lead with Hippowdon. I Taunt it to block Curse and then switch to Dragonite, who eats Crunch. I try Dragon Dance but I get killed by Rock Slide. Fortunately Scizor can set up easily against Hippowdon 2. So I set up Scizor to 6+ and 2HKO with Bug Bite while it Curses. In comes Gigalith. I use Bullet Punch and activate Sturdy... and promptly get killed by a Stone Edge crit. I send in Sawk. I try Close Combat, but Gigalith activates Custap Berry and kills me with Explosion (note that Sturdy was broken by Sand Stream when I Taunted Hippowdon on the first turn which is why I died). Explosion was also a crit I think but I doubt it would have mattered.

    So it was a mix of misplay and hax. I should have switched Dragonite out for Scizor when it didn't use Earthquake, which should have made it obvious that it wasn't Hippowdon 4. I'm still not even sure if Dragonite was the best choice, but I was just experimenting with ways of dealing with Hippowdon (I tried switching to Scizor instead before and I won but I would have lost if Hippowdon got just one Earthquake crit). The other misplay was using Bullet Punch on Gigalith. If I'd used Bug Bite I would have eaten the Custap Berry, allowing Sawk to kill it.

    I wouldn't have lost if Gigalith hadn't critted that turn, but it was bound to happen eventually. I should say I'm somewhat lucky that it didn't occur sooner.

    I was somewhat amused when I tried again after this streak and lost at battle 28... to a Gothitelle. I think the game designers are aware that Gothitelle is a terrible pokemon which is why they gave it Brightpowder (lets face it, it's the only way it would cause you to lose).

    So yeah I'm taking a break from Sawk for now. I've used it a lot lately and it's starting to get dull. I'm thinking of trying the new Dragonite EV spread for my Zoroark/Suicune/Dragonite team. Zoroark's Memento should help out Dragonite by helping to make up for the lesser bulk. It might make things like Jolteon harder to deal with though. Maybe I should try Focus Sash Zoroark again; it's annoyingly weak but it's safer.
  15. Jimera0

    Jimera0 You don't understand, Edgar is the one in the hole!
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2010
    I am sad to say that the streak has finally ended, at 109 wins. The 110th battle was complete bullshit. Don't believe me? Just watch the battle video and gape at my terrible luck.

    Video no: 71-58349-98030

    Yes, it was over in 5 turns. For those of you too lazy to go look up the video, I can sum up what happened thusly.

    Jimera0 battles Roughneck Proteus, an OHKO user!
    Jimera0's Ferrothorn is OHKO'd by Sheer Cold before it can move!
    Jimera0's Chandelure fails to OHKO the opposing Walrein with Energy Ball, is OHKO'd by Fissure!
    Jimera0's Hydreigon revenge kills the Walrein with Dragon Pulse, out comes Wailord!
    Wailord uses Blizzard, which fails to KO but freezes Hydreigon anyway!
    Wailord finishes off Hydeigon with Hyper Beam as he fails to have a 1 turn freeze.

    Seriously, the battle could NOT have gone any worse and there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. Never before did Sturdy's old use look so tantalizing... The crazy thing is that I could've stood to lose one or even two of my Pokemon to this guy and still won. But ALL THREE got haxed into to destruction. That's just... so bad. And there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it. No misplays (well I suppose I could've switched to Hydreigon first instead of Chandelure since Chandelure would do better against his other pokes, but still!), just terrible, terrible luck.

    But hey, 109 wins isn't bad and gets me to #34 on the list! It's a shame though, I could've gotten a lot more if not for the INCREDIBLE bullshit that was that match.
  16. pifou69


    Feb 17, 2012
    Battle Subway Super Solo Battle Record : 146

    Proof : http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3544/supersolo.jpg

    Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
    Ability : Flash Fire
    IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Nature : Modest
    - Shadow ball
    - Flamethrower
    - Psychic
    - Energy Ball

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Ability : Iron Barbs
    Nature : Sassy
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/6 Atk
    - Curse
    - Gyro Ball
    - Protect
    - Leech seed

    Landorus @ Choice Bander
    Nature : Timid
    IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/6 HP
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Stone Edge
    - U-turn

    Strategy is to OHKO first turn with Chandelure when it's possible and switch to Ferrothorn or Landorus if it's not.
    Landorus for ground and electric moves. If it's possible to OHKO Earthquake, Stone edge or outrage, else U turn
    Ferrothorn for rock, dark ghost and water moves. If it's possible leech seed then curse. If fire or fight move, switch to chandelier

    I have problems essentially with 2 pokes : Terrakion and Tornadus. I can not OHKO with Chandelure and are faster than Landorus

    How I've lost
    Chandelure vs Latios : Switch to Ferrothorn because I thought I can't OHKO with shadow ball (I was wrong)
    Latios Draco Meteor, CH orange HP, Latios SPA drops
    I thought I can leech seed, but Latios Dracometeor CH, Ferrothorn KO
    Chandelure vs Latios
    Shadowball, Latios KO
    Tornadus out : OHKO Chandelure and Landorus with Huricane

    It was the second time I face a landorus. First time I was very lucky because Hurricane missed a lot.
  17. Unbreakable


    May 21, 2010
    Now with Gen 4 records, huh?

    This isn't a record, but I was running the HGSS factory the other day and found it curious that in the third battle, Hypno's Forewarn pinged on Gastrodon's Mirror Coat instead of Waterfall. Just one more thing to look out for...

    (in that run, I made the wrong decision on who to bring in after a kill and lost in the 7th)
  18. Level 51

    Level 51 ♪you just want my spreadsheets, you don't want my heart♪
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a defending Smogon Snake Draft Champion

    Dec 16, 2011
    Do you count streaks where the members were from Pokecheck (but originally uploaded by another Smogon member so technically they're all legit)?
  19. Aquaspeeder


    Apr 3, 2012
    When forewarn selects a move, it assigns a base power to moves that do not otherwise have fixed base powers. Mirror Coat is assigned a base power of 120, which is 40 points higher that the 80 base power Waterfall.
  20. PeterT


    Feb 22, 2012
    I never managed to get to 62 wins again, so I gave up on this strategy.

    Next-up for Doubles:

    Prankster Focus Sash Illumise with Flatter and Choice Scarf Own Tempo Ludicolo.
    If I manage to get an Illumise with decent stats, nature and Tailwind, I can lose the scarf on Ludicolo (but it might take a while without RNG'ing)

    Ludicolo is the only Own Tempo user that is useful. Slowbro is also an option but I he has to take at least one hit + activate Trick Room to sweep.

    Anyone tried this before and if so, did it get you far?
  21. Gertle627


    Apr 11, 2010
    @RiggyRob - That Donphan almost ended my best streak. Quick Claw activated 4 times in a row. Seed Bomb took out Suicune & luckily the last time, Stone Edge missed Mence so I could take it out.

    I just realized that I've only gotten past the 49 win mark 4 times. And every time I had Salamence on my team. I guess it's time to start another Salamence team!
  22. Manveru123


    Feb 27, 2012
    I got absolutely mad after losing yet AGAIN to a hax, and will be giving up for now. God damn I tried this team like 7 times and every, every, every single time I lost to a hax. Never to a misplay, it was ALWAYS some dumb crit, burn, or paralysis from just that one Tbolt before Sub. Arrrrrrgh.

    Anyway, highest I got was 140 wins, and this is a very nice team.

    Whimsicott @Focus Sash
    Bold, Prankster
    252 HP, 128 DEF, 128 SpD
    - Taunt
    - Charm
    - Worry Seed
    - Memento

    Crushes the dreams of physical attackers, Resters and Clear Body pokes.

    Scizor @Leftovers
    Adamant, Technician
    252 HP, 252 Atk
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute

    No Roost? Nope. I need that Superpower coverage.

    Suicune @Chesto Berry
    Bold, Pressure
    252 HP, 252 Def
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute

    As standard as it could be ;p

    Honestly the only thing this team has problems with are very powerful special attackers, who even after Memento can threaten non-boosted Suicune right off the bat, and are able to break Scizors's sub in one hit.
  23. ntrnsc mtvtn

    ntrnsc mtvtn

    May 9, 2012
    May 9th 2012, Super Single Train: 579

    Scizor, Leftovers, Technician
    252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def, Adamant
    176/200/120/--/99/83 (IV -1 HP, -1 Def, -1 SDef, -2 Spe)
    Bullet Punch / Bug Bite / Swords Dance / Protect

    Milotic, Sitrus Berry, Marvel Scale
    252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe, Bold
    Scald / Toxic / Recover / Protect

    Dragonite, Lum Berry, Multiscale
    4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe, Adamant
    Outrage / Earthquake / ExtremeSpeed / Dragon Dance

    May 11th 2012, reply to atsync's post
    Hidden for convenience (open)
    Thank you, atsync.
    The team I used to reach 579 is a slight modification of a team I used autumn 2011 (peaking at 409 which surpassed #1 at that time, eventually posted here but deleted a few days later, before update), replacing a Focus Sash Garchomp with the Dragonite listed - recently got my hands on Multiscale and a few other Hidden Abilities (no Wi-Fi at home). I'm not sure which is better; while this version has the other beaten by 170 battles, the previous version lost due to human error, which wasn't the case this time, or it may have been - discussed later.

    That team was derived from something I used back when I started out on the Subway, some time after the international releases of Black and White, which peaked in the mid-100s with Scizor/Chandelure/Flygon. Said team had its origins in my time at the Battle Frontier, which is where I taught myself to play 'competitive' pkmn. Back then, I didn't use (have) information about the opponents and their pkmn, so when I finally did, I instantly reached 100 with Scizor/Gengar/Kingdra and stopped there, satisfied.

    With the Battle Subway, which I think has a higher difficulty level, I've continued past breaking 100. While I've always refrained from looking at the strategies posted in this thread, it has served as a source of encouragement and comfort while playing. Having some honestly achieved records to measure against, and knowing that other people out there spend hundreds of hours battling on the Subway (and even care about it) has been great. I might start reading into the thread, though. Since I've already been around most strategies myself, your takes could be interesting.

    While the text above may not tell you much about strategy, it draws a picture of my approach, and also provides some team building history. To give an adequate overview of the heuristics I use with this team would be an impossible task, given the great selection of Subway pkmn, and the fact that my team is built for standard 3v3 touch and go battles, without a specific goal (such as covering everything to set up and sweep). It would also involve lots of common sense, and stuff you all probably know from before. After all, as atsync said; it's a pretty straightforward team. This kind of knowledge is much better acquired from first hand experience. Only general advice I can give is that some teams, however well thought out and strong in theory, will not work in the Battle Subway, and that one cannot play as if critical hits and secondary effects shouldn't happen, and that they are unfair - you're playing a mode where the goal is to win as many battles as possible in one go without losing once; seemingly ridiculous chance occurrences are not malfunctions that end your streak untimely, they're essentially what you're playing against. If anyone has questions, I'll gladly answer them. As an example, here's a description of how I lost, as atsync requested. It provides full insight - not too entertaining.

    How I lost battle #580 to Artist Hacikan, May 9th 2012:
    Turn 1: My opponent for battle #580 was Artist Hacikan. My recent statistics with versions of this team against the #49< Artists Rikkyu and Hacikan were 71/29/0/0 percent at this point, values given as 3-0s/3-1s/3-2s/3-2!s, '!' signifying an actual chance of loss. While notable for its lack of 3-2s and 3-2!s, the 3-1 percentage is well above average, but all in all strong statistics considering the fact that Artists mainly use Steel-types, which resist both of Scizor's attacks. Main threat in Artists' roster is Magnezone, followed by Starmie and Porygon-Z. Hacikan leads with Porygon-Z (1-4), revealing its SAtk-raising Download Ability.

    Turn 2: Since none of the Porygon-Z can benefit from a free first turn, I Protect to see which version it is. It uses Thunder Wave, meaning it's version 1.

    Turn 3: Milotic switch-in against 205 SAtk, non-STAB, Download- and Wise Glasses-boosted Thunderbolt could be done to lose Milotic for a free Dragonite switch-in, resulting in Lum Berry and/or Multiscale break for one Dragon Dance, starting a non-Lum Outrage taking out Porygon-Z 1, however this is undesirable against an Artist due to his usage of Steel-types, and the same goes for the sacrificial act in general, as Scizor isn't necessarily any more valuable against Artists than Milotic is. Dragonite switch-in is out of question as well, since it would have to take 2 Thunderbolts/Thunder Waves, and doesn't want to Outrage at this point anyway. Sticking with Scizor, I can't take out Porygon-Z 1 with 2/+2 Bullet Punch/es at minimum damage roll, and it can take Scizor out with 2 of its Thunderbolts. As long as full paralysis and critical hit is avoided, Bug Bite followed up by Bullet Punch will give Porygon-Z 1 only a single turn before going out, leaving Scizor at either well below half HP (Thunderbolt), well below half HP and paralyzed (Thunderbolt plus secondary paralysis), or full HP and paralyzed (Thunder Wave). Not the best match-up, but I go for it, having taken out many Porygon-Z with Scizor. Porygon-Z 1 uses Thunder Wave, Scizor gets the 75% not fully paralyzed and uses Bug Bite, leaving Porygon-Z 1 with less HP than minimum damage roll Bullet Punch.

    Turn 4: As planned, go for knockout. Scizor gets the 75% not fully paralyzed a second time, knocking out Porygon-Z 1 with Bullet Punch. This priority shuffling Bug Bite to Bullet Punch strategy with no Swords Dances is used mainly when faced with a real threat. Also used against the more common Porygon-Z 4, but more leisurely so since Scizor eats the Sitrus Berry it holds, it has lower SAtk, lacks the Wise Glasses, and has to rely on critical hit (assuming Download) or secondary paralysis to threaten Scizor beyond cutting its replenishing HP, as it doesn't know Thunder Wave.

    Turn 5: Hacikan brings out Magnezone (1-4). I'm very used to face Magnezone leads with Scizor, but this time around I've got paralysis and the Magnezone version is unknown. Both 1 and 3 carry Magnet Rise, so Protecting to scout or switching Dragonite in (assuming Sturdy, no Magnet Pull) would be foolish. Milotic is even worse, indubitably so considering Magnet Rise. Even with the Magnet Rise-less Magnezone 4, who is by far the most common (being a 4th version plus Battle Girls and Black Belts), I always send Scizor on a sacrificial course, simply breaking its possible Sturdy with Bug Bite, then playing 1 for 1 by knocking out Magnezone with Dragonite's Earthquake on the following turn (assuming no Volt Switch, which in most instances is somewhat beneficial to me). This is of course regardless of Ability, since both Magnet Pull and Sturdy force me to do this, albeit in different ways. So, since I can't afford to Protect, I Bug Bite to break Sturdy (should've Bullet Punched because of paralysis speed drop; mistake which makes no difference in retrospect). Magnezone Magnet Rises, meaning it's version 1 or 3. Scizor bypasses full paralysis for the third time in a row, breaking Sturdy, if any.

    Turn 6: Now it's all about getting Magnet Rise to wear off in time for Dragonite's Earthquake. Logically, I Protect to achieve this end, but the 25% full paralysis finally kicks in on this 4th try, and the turn isn't spent as planned, instead taking a Charge Beam granting Magnezone (now confirmed as version 3) the 70% chance +1 SAtk increase.

    Turn 7: Logically, I try to Protect once more, but the 25% full paralysis persists, and Magnezone 3 uses Charge Beam again, this time without the 70% benefit.

    Turn 8: Three of the five turns of Magnet Rise have passed, no thanks to Protect. Effect will wear off at the end of next turn (9). I can Protect, yes, but if Magnezone 3 gets to use Magnet Rise once more, the game is lost. If I manage to Protect, Charge Beam (90%) may miss next turn, allowing Magnezone 3 to Magnet Rise anew - that makes for a 10% chance of certain game loss. So I choose Bug Bite, allowing Magnezone 3 to knock Scizor out with Charge Beam before Bug Bite can be executed (Magnezone 3 got its 70% +1 SAtk here). This could have been a game losing mistake, but since the other option included a 10% chance of certain game loss, and only had 75% of taking effect in the first place, I wouldn't explain the loss from this alone. As such, I don't view this match as lost due to a misplay/human error, which is unfortunate, seeing as human error is the best way to lose regarding the strength of your team.

    Turn 9: Dragonite is switched in as Milotic was an irrelevant option since it isn't knocked out by even maximum damage roll 200 SAtk, STAB, +2 Charge Beam, meaning that it would only allow Magnezone 3 to Magnet Rise anew, not wear it off. This is Magnezone 3's last turn with Magnet Rise. Obviously can't Outrage, ExtremeSpeed would do meaningless damage (Sturdy broken already), choose to Dragon Dance, knowing that critical hit +2 Flash Cannon will have a fair chance of knocking out through Multiscale. Protect would've been great for this turn, but Dragonite's moveset is crammed (there's a reason you don't see a great move like Roost in there, or more coverage). Does below half HP, meaning that with Multiscale gone, Magnezone 3 can easily knock Dragonite out next turn. Magnet Rise wears off.

    Turn 10: Finally able to Earthquake, misses due to BrightPowder (10%), Magnezone 3 knocks Dragonite out with Charge Beam, and gets the boost (70%). Had Earthquake hit, Magnezone 3 would've been knocked out, leaving only a Claydol 1-4 (as seen in replay) which is easily handled by Dragonite and Milotic, no risk.

    Turn 11: Only Milotic left, game lost. Scald it, get Thunder Wave'd.

    Turn 12: Get knocked out by +3 Charge Beam.
    When it comes to misfortune, this battle is nothing compared to what I've repeatedly seen on this streak alone (as far as I'm concerned, Tornadus 2 is invincible on a good day, and I bet we all know about Walrein 4), but it's all about when and how these unfortunate events occur.

    May 14th 2012, reply to Peterko's post
    Hidden for convenience (open)
    Thank you, Peterko.
    Ongoing streak of 406 was posted in November 2011. The question in post #1121 is directed at me, or my Milotic. It was achieved some time before posting, though. I deleted it because I feared it would ruin my Subway fun - no offense, your thread is wonderful, as I've already pointed out. Either way, I'm pretty sure my 406 never surpassed ~Mercury~'s November 509 (which I didn't know about until like 2012), so I've probably never been at #1. When I later picked up the streak (before 2012), I only won 3 battles (409) before losing to an early misplay, hence my comment on how my previous version (Garchomp) of this team lost to (non-hindsight) human error. As for believability, all the post had was a picture and some text touching on trial and error approach, I think.

    Yes, I see, you provide impressive amounts of information about your streaks. As I said, I will answer any questions any of you may have, and that would also make it easier to give you what you want. For now, I could show screens from the Excel sheets I use when playing. While the first screen is from the set in stone Subway roster data, the second screen is from 3-0/3-1/3-2/3-2!-statistics accumulated from a humble 1083 battles, 300 with Garchomp (nothing from 409/autumn, all is recent) and 783 with Dragonite, only counting battles past #49. Should've separated by versions from the beginning, really. Too late now, all entangled.

    Well, if people have trouble reaching 100 (or more) with attacking teams, they just have to play more, really. I don't remember the last time this team/these teams did under 100, but I doubt it was in 2012. As for Protect, using this in conjunction with Leftovers makes Scizor a way better dancer, and makes it more defensive (in terms of ability to deal with critical hits) than it could ever dream of being with Roost. I've done this since the Battle Frontier, and every time I try something else it doesn't even compare. Wish it did, though, since Leftovers would be great on Milotic, better than Sitrus Berry in many cases, but maybe not in the most important situations. Your comment on Protect may also count for Milotic (like post #1121). I imagine the alternatives to be Ice Beam or Substitute. I'd like to see a universal argument made for the use of either of these over Protect, as I find both way too situational. Protect is always used; for Toxic damage, for PP-depletion of foes' dangerous moves (for example: two chances of critical hit Draco Meteor, Head Smash, etc. instead of five), for PP-conservation of Recover, for scouting, even SolarBeam/Sunny Day, etc.

    That's right, I don't use Substitute on this team. Do you agree with that passage of mine, which you quote here? As said, straight on 3v3 touch and go battles. Looks like a counter intuitive strategy, reading said passage, which is meant to describe the essence of the Battle Subway. The reason I use this is because I think it's more fun. Sure, Ferrothorn is an adorable pkmn, but if the battles last way longer and I can't even look at it, because it's hiding behind a Substitute, I'd rather go 'standard'. Actually, whenever I climb ~100-200 with 'foolproof', 'fixed-strategy' teams, I always change back to 'standard' while going, unless I lose to some blatant misplay before doing so. When I repeatedly win insanely misfortunate battles with teams like the one at 579, I embrace this strategy, knowing that it has its risks, but is more fun and much faster (playing speed is obviously an important factor when it comes to giving it another go), although not as fast as many other teams, like Shell Smash Cloyster. I usually use other teams or versions to reach #49 faster, by the way, but I could imagine that would be normal here.

    You ask for statistics - are the images above adequate? That's all I use when battling. I initially didn't post more than the required information (not even paragraphs), because I didn't want to be all self important stranger, and history would suggest that I'd delete the post in a few days anyway. I understand the caution, especially with me coming from outside, not using the thread for strategy, etc. - some of the streaks here are hard to believe for me as well. I guess there are ways to produce counterfeit record screen photos, and that it would be almost impossible to safeguard against, proof-wise, which is a shame. I wonder what became of that supposedly ongoing, now #2, Super Double Train streak of 686 - is Speed Boost Blaziken that strong in the Subway?

    Critical hits, (secondary) status, and OHKO-moves are examples (flinch is very important too) of those percentage risks I have to live with when using this team. When Walrein 4 Sheer Colds/Fissures two of my pkmn, or when all of the foes' 3 pkmn lead off with critical hits, there's no plan for my team, and I just have to do what I can, with what's left. Adding a tough match-up, undesirable pacing, misplay, hazardrous decision, and/or continuing misfortune, the game is lost and I'll have to start over or take a break. Simple as that. The team is generally able to handle ridiculously biased battles, as my streaks show. I think the double usage of high powder damaging priority-moves may have a say in covering up bad situations. The usage of Protect helps too, as does having a pkmn with strong defenses (all of you using Suicune know that even better, although Milotic does have the advantage of Recover), and more importantly I think it has a say that my team(s) is essentially a two-pkmn cell of Scizor and Milotic, with Dragonite (or Garchomp) serving as backup/insurance/rear guard - it (they) is used way less than the others. OHKO-moves are easier to handle with Garchomp version (because of Focus Sash), and something that helps a lot is immunity to Horn Drill/Guillotine and/or Fissure (former is experienced when I, as I sometimes do, opt for the defensively weaker Jellicent - Cursed Body is delicious).

    I would expect that from you, noticing the Electric weakness. Garchomp version obviously handles this, as seen in the Depot Agent battles, which used to be the easiest of all, and now almost guarantee a 3-1. Strangely they haven't been that hard, with only one 3-2 (not '3-2!'), involving Electrode scoring a turn of self hurt (confusion), secondary paralysis, followed up by Durant causing two flinches and a critical hit - all against Scizor and Dragonite, so over few turns, and not a result of many turns = many chance occurrences (Milotic). No chance of loss, though - hence 3-2 without '!'. The Electric-types that resist Bug Bite in addition to Bullet Punch are troublesome - namely Magnezone, Zapdos, and Thundurus. Without critical hits/secondary effects, and with polarized damage rolls to my opponents advantage, Scizor can go 1-1 with Thundurus 234, thanks to Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed. Against threats, such as these, the lack of switching is what costs me, seen also against lesser threats like Raikou (Volt Switch can be devastating, though), Jolteon, Electrode, etc. Garchomp allowed more switching than Dragonite. Generally I want to go back to Garchomp version, because of the advantages mentioned, and also because I feel like a kid with a GameShark when using Multiscale against the Hidden Abilities-less Subway roster. However, I can't let go of Dragonite's Lum Berry insurance, and its major edge over Garchomp regarding boosted speed, via Dragon Dance. As a stand-alone pkmn, I think Dragonite is stronger, albeit solely thanks to Multiscale, no kidding.
  24. atsync

    atsync Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon

    Mar 28, 2011
    @ ntrnsc mtvtn: That's quite an impressive streak, though I would suggest that you add more information to your post explaining your strategy. To be honest the team is pretty straight forward and easy to understand, but just posting a picture and listing 3 pokemon isn't that informative. Also, how did your streak end?


    I haven't actually got any new streaks to report, but I have been playing a little bit. I haven't felt particularly creative lately so I've just been throwing teams together using what I already have on me.

    Firstly, I tried my Garchomp/Emolga/Scizor/Rotom-W team again. I gave Emolga Protect over Light Screen, which worked well as Emolga is a hit magnet. In some ways, Garchomp + Emolga plays like a miniature version of Entei + (insert weakling bait pokemon here), though obviously not as effective. I gave Scizor Lum Berry and Rotom-W Aspear Berry to allow for safe switch-ins to ice attacks (the first time I switched Rotom-W into an Ice Beam it froze me, so it was a good choice I guess). I didn't get that far though. That team has trouble with anything faster than Emolga and it's way too vulnerable to hax. I should consider myself lucky that my last attempt at the team got as far as it did. It was only meant to be a joke team though. I wonder how well it would go in 4th gen though, where their speed stats are more impressive (not that I could actually try it, of course).

    I also tried out Garchomp + Azelf again (Protect over Thunderbolt on Azelf). I kept Scizor as a back up. However, I dumped Gyarados, who I think is just not a very good pokemon in subway (well it isn't terrible but I haven't really been impressed by it). I tried out something more interesting to replace it: Ninetales! It was a surprisingly good back-up, mainly because it is a strong check to ice teams (in fact, Ninetales is one of the safest switch-ins against ice attacks because Drought makes it immune to freezing). Unfortunately I was sure that the team would be ruined by any legendary team and my fears were realised when I face Socialite Saty, who had Latios + Heatran as back-ups.

    So yeah, now I'm constructing a new doubles team with Latios + Heatran as leads (no, I didn't just get the idea from Socialite Saty; I have been considering this for a little while). It would be interesting to see how Ninetales would work as a back-up for those leads. I'm not expecting much (Earthquake anyone?), but who knows?
  25. isshoni


    Oct 1, 2010
    I just got a streak of 94 in the Super Double Subway. This was my first try with this team and I lost due to a combination of misplay and an untimely crit. I'm gonna try it again later and I'm confident I can get a lot further when I'm a bit less tired.


    Politoed (M) "Theodor"
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Drizzle
    Nature: Modest
    IVs: 31/xx/31/30/31/31
    EVs: HP 252, Def 4, Sp. Att 244, Sp. Def 4, Spd 4
    Stats: 197/xx/96/154/121/91
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Electric
    - Psychic

    Pretty obvious. I only use something besides Surf on extremely rare occasions when I'm tricked another item and the situation requires me to do so.

    Toxicroak (M) "Phobos"
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Adamant
    IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
    EVs: HP 4, Att 252, Spd 252
    Stats: 159/173/85/xx/85/137
    - Fake Out
    - Sucker Punch
    - Drain Punch
    - Bulk Up

    Pretty standard I suppose. Bulk Up over Protect because of the oppponents this team attracts tend to give me quite a lot of chances to use it, and it's an efficient way to for Toxicroak to deal extra damage with Sucker Punch when there's nothing else left for him to do.

    Then for the back row. I've tried a lot of frail rain-dependant stuff on my previous double line runs like Kingdra, Starmie and Kabutops for example, and it seems that they just don't cut it, for me at least. That's why I went for something more solid this time.

    Cradily (F) "Skylla"
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Storm Drain
    Nature Bold
    IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/30
    EVs: HP 252, Def 116, Sp. Def 132, Spd 4
    Stats: 193/xx/145/101/144/64
    - Energy Ball
    - AncientPower
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Recover

    This Cradily is something special I wanted to try out. It has great defenses and it gets plenty of Storm Drain boosts from the others. It can just sit there and take hits and wait for the battle to be over, or just as well take an active part.

    Milotic (M) "Loki"
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Marvel Scale
    Nature: Timid
    IVs: 31/xx/31/30/31/31
    EVs: HP 4, Def 4, Sp. Att 248, Spd 252
    Stats: HP 171/xx/100/151/145/146
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power Electric
    - Recover

    This team is pretty solid overall and I didn't notice any apparent weaknesses. I think everyone compliments each other very well as Politoed and Milotic provide boosts and healing for the other two, while Toxicroak and Cradily serve as priority, physical offense and defenses. Feel free to contribute your thoughts.

    How I lost:
    Milotic and Cradily were out against Salamence and Kingdra. Kingdra got a crit on Cradily with Draco Meteor when it was already at -2 or -4 and then Salamence proceeded to knock it out with Outrage. I was counting on surviving the turn so I Surfed for the boost instead of Ice Beaming Salamence, which cost me the match.

    I'm gonna try again with these guys too, but I'd also like to come up with a decent back row for this amazing thing:

    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    Nature: Careful
    IVs: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
    EVs: HP 252, Sp. Def 252, Spd 4
    Stats: 237/105/100/xx/161/81
    - Curse
    - Ice Shard
    - Waterfall
    - Toxic / Rain Dance

    I've played a couple of hundred battles with him and he's absolutely amazing. He obviously leads with Politoed to start boosting as early as possible, while Politoed constantly heals him with Surfs. If he gets up even a single Curse, he won't die. My problem is that I can't seem to find a good back row to support these two and clean up after them. The problem is that at least one of the two should be able to support Lapras with fast Surfs. I've tried so many different things I can't even think of what to try next. I wanna get my big streak with this Lapras and I know I can. I'd appreciate any suggestions you could offer.
    Smuckem likes this.

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  1. Pandora57