It wasn't broken on Ninjask, and while Blaziken has much better defensive typing, it still dies to most strong hits. Honestly, the turn BPing is probably better spent attacking.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Blaziken
- Thread starter manav95
- Start date
The difference between blaziken and ninjask is that blaziken actually kills stuff after the SD and BPs when it can't. It's already hard enough getting pokemon to counter it and then you discover that it BPs to something else you don't counter giving them yet another free turn.
It's really not uncommon for something like this to happen:
Player 1 sends in Blaziken.
Player 2 switches to Burungeru. Blaziken uses SD (+2 attack, +1 speed)
Blaziken uses BP to Dragonite/Salamence and takes nothing from boil over/surf.
Dragonite/Salamence uses DD while Burungeru switches out or tries to toxic or whatever.
Give them a lum berry and they're now ready to sweep the opponent's team at +3 attack +2 speed. The worst part is, even if you somehow manage to kill the pokemon at +3/+2, blaziken hasn't even taken any damage and can probably come in and attempt this again at least once more during the match.
You're probably thinking well ninjask can do the same thing except you didn't really have to care what you sent into ninjask as long as it can phaze it or taunt it or whatever. With blaziken, unless your name is dragon tail gyarados or salamence, you're probably going to eat a +2 hi jump kick/blaze kick and die.
It's really not uncommon for something like this to happen:
Player 1 sends in Blaziken.
Player 2 switches to Burungeru. Blaziken uses SD (+2 attack, +1 speed)
Blaziken uses BP to Dragonite/Salamence and takes nothing from boil over/surf.
Dragonite/Salamence uses DD while Burungeru switches out or tries to toxic or whatever.
Give them a lum berry and they're now ready to sweep the opponent's team at +3 attack +2 speed. The worst part is, even if you somehow manage to kill the pokemon at +3/+2, blaziken hasn't even taken any damage and can probably come in and attempt this again at least once more during the match.
You're probably thinking well ninjask can do the same thing except you didn't really have to care what you sent into ninjask as long as it can phaze it or taunt it or whatever. With blaziken, unless your name is dragon tail gyarados or salamence, you're probably going to eat a +2 hi jump kick/blaze kick and die.
Player 1 sends in Blaziken.
Player 2 switches to Burungeru. Blaziken uses SD (+2 attack, +1 speed)
Blaziken uses Shadow Claw and OHKOs.
Burungeru is not a good Blaziken counter. You beat it with strong priority users (which can take it out before the pass if you predict well), bulky phazers+hazards (which easily neutralize BP versions), or stuff like Gliscor that can take a hit and KO back (which also usually does well against whatever you might pass to).
Just curious, but how many swords dances would you need to ohko a gliscor with blaze kick?
What strong priority? Aqua jet isn't even common and probably isn't used on anything except azumarill which itself isn't very common. And mach punch from standard roob is a 3HKO and a 2HKO from LO technician breloom. Switching either of these pokemon in is also extremely detrimental to your team because it will OHKO you while you mach punch it now putting it at +2/+2 ready to BP out of the next pokemon you send in which I'm sure will not be another priority user.
Also what common bulky phazers are going to survive a +2 Hi jump kick/blaze kick apart from dragonite, salamence and gyarados.
You need 2 to OHKO with blaze kick but you can OHKO after 1 using LO and flare blitz.
If you want percentages...
Assuming Wide Lens,Adamant Blaziken's Blaze Kick will always OHKO Impish 252HP/252Def Gliscor at +6: 100.28% - 118.08%
Same Gliscor being hit by a +4 Flare Blitz: 105.93% - 124.86%
Same Gliscor being hit by a +2 LO Flare Blitz: 91.81% - 108.47%
Not taking into account Sun.
alphatron
Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!
Gyarados, Salamence, and Dragonite all have to watch out for the not so uncommon stone edge on blaziken which will still tear them apart even at +1 (for the first two obviously).
If using sun, +2 flare blitz destroys jelliecient/burungeru, meaning you don't even have to use shadow claw.
If using sun, +2 flare blitz destroys jelliecient/burungeru, meaning you don't even have to use shadow claw.
1.Speed Boost + Baton Pass is illegal.
2.Trap Passing no longer works.
3.It would suck anyway.
Even if it were legal, what would it really accomplish?
It may not be legal but Pokemon Online doesn't know that and lets Blaziken Baton Pass. So it is worthy to worry about unless that gets fixed or a Female Torchic with Speed Boost is released.
I think he means what is its purpose on the set
Eh, probably the same thing a ninjask could accomplish, only better.
IIRC, I made a post on this thread stating what this would have over ninjask, but i'll say it again.
blaziken has...
-no 4x weakness to SR
-better STABs
-better defenses
-Higher attack
- Higher HP (for Substitute)
That's all I have on the top of my head. I guess a set could go like this:
-swords dance
-substitute
-protect
-baton pass
Basically SD up and sub+protect until you're satisfied with the speed boosts, then baton pass. accomplishes nothing more than ninjask would, but Blaziken has an easier time doing it and has no fear of stealth rock.
But, I have never used a BP ninjask, I have only seen how they work, so I honestly see no other differences or advantages.
Ninjask can kill things, just not well. Blaziken shouldn't be BPong when it has great Attack and Speed Power to be abusing, though, especially when (if) Pokemon Online takes away BP SB Blaziken.
I was referring to that specific set, though. No sub and no SD, so pretty much anything bulky that can pass Agility would be better at it.
Also, the "trap Blaziken's counters" bit, since it can't do anything once its counters are gone anyway.
Also, the "trap Blaziken's counters" bit, since it can't do anything once its counters are gone anyway.
However, there is a rule against using illegal sets. If someone tells a mod that you are using an illegal set, you must forfeit the battle or the mod will kick you.
It can kill stuff and baton pass out of stuff it can't kill. That's the beauty of using SD + BP and 2 attacks instead of SD + 3 attacks and what makes it so damn broken.
Also PO allows SD + BP in the dream world tier because they assume that at some point female DW pokemon will become available just like they assume all DW abilities will become available. At least that's what a mod said when I asked why it wasn't illegal.
i made a more offensive bp blaziken.
blaziken
adamant
252 atk, 252 spe
hi jump kick
shadow claw/stone edge
BP
swords dance
trick here is to switch into something that can't hurt you like a blissey or nattorei. then swords dance. when you run into something you can't beat you baton pass
blaziken
adamant
252 atk, 252 spe
hi jump kick
shadow claw/stone edge
BP
swords dance
trick here is to switch into something that can't hurt you like a blissey or nattorei. then swords dance. when you run into something you can't beat you baton pass
This has been explained many times. The moves don't need the accuracy boost; what they need is the additional power given by Swords Dance.
Even then,Swords Dance + Wide Lens has 3% more damage than Hone Claws + Life Orb >.>
Then comes the best question: Would you rather miss 20%(Stone Edge) of the time or fail to OHKO a threat 90% of the time?
The only time Hone Claws might be more useful than SD is on a mixed set, in which case you probably shouldn't be using a boosting move either way.
