OU Blissey

[trc]

Legitimate Username Thanks for the check and the c/p!
GatoDelFuego This is finished and can be added to the index
This is done!

 

[Alter]

TRC. - you accidentally removed the...

Overview
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section from the OP when copy/pasting, I believe.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

Take out that terrible blissey > chansey in sand myth.

It's not even better on a sand team. Say both chansey and blissey are at full health and got hit by genesect's u-turn in a non sand environment

+1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 214-253 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- 44.9% chance to 3HKO

+1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 294-346 (41.1 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Assuming max rolls chansey is left at 64.1% and blissey will be left with 57.4% after leftovers. 6.7% difference
Now in a sand environment.
Assuming max rolls chansey is left at 58.1% after sand damage and blissey will be left with 51.4%. 6.7% diffference.

The myth about blissey being better in sand always baffled me because instead of blissey recovering 6% chansey loses 6% which for all intents and purposes are the same thing.

 

[trc]

Better in sand < cope better with passive damage including sand

 

[trc]

Removed mentions of Genesect and Mega Lucario.

 

[Ronnie the Bear]

On the Wish set, you have an EV spread with 4 HP, meaning that Blissey will be passing 326 HP Wishes, not 357 HP (as it would with max HP). Just a minor note, as the Wishes are still tremendous one way or the other.

 

[Magnemite]

I have a bit of an issue with the overview of this analysis. A reader who knew nothing about OU would read the beginning of the overview and think that Blissey was the best special wall in the tier. However, this is very far from the truth. I'm talking specifically about this sentence: "While it faces heavy competition this generation with other viable special walls, Blissey still manages to establish its rightful place above the rest." This sentence is very misleading. There is actually nearly zero reason to use Blissey instead of Chansey, which is better in almost every (relevant) way, but the beginning of the overview seems to imply otherwise. I would change it to something like: "Blissey is one of the only Pokemon in the game in the unfortunate position of actually being worse than its pre-evolution. Blissey is much worse than Chansey because of these reasons: (reasons). However, Blissey still has a small niche over Chansey, which is (niche)." There's very little reason to ever use Blissey when Chansey is available, and the analysis needs to reflect this (preferably in the first sentence or two).

 

[Unowninator]

There is actually nearly zero reason to use Blissey instead of Chansey, which is better in almost every (relevant) way, but the beginning of the overview seems to imply otherwise. I would change it to something like: "Blissey is one of the only Pokemon in the game in the unfortunate position of actually being worse than its pre-evolution. Blissey is much worse than Chansey because of these reasons: (reasons). However, Blissey still has a small niche over Chansey, which is (niche)." There's very little reason to ever use Blissey when Chansey is available, and the analysis needs to reflect this (preferably in the first sentence or two).

2 words: Knock Off

 

[Colonel M]

2 words: Knock Off

Blissey arguably hates Knock Off just as much so the point is nearly irrelevant.

 

[Arkian]

2 words: Knock Off

The thing is, Knock Off is fairly easy to see coming and Chansey would never switch in on any of the common users of the move anyway. Furthermore, Blissey hates Knock Off almost as much as Chansey, since it takes away the only thing Blissey has over Chansey (Leftovers recovery).

Edit: Ninja'd by Colonel M :<

 

[Magnemite]

Also, lower susceptibility to Knock Off really doesn't help Blissey. For that to be the case, Blissey's would have to check or at least be able to conceivably handle common Knock Off users, which is not the case, as it loses to all of them.

 

[trc]

Yeah this has been something I've been told about and have been thinking about doing for a while. I'll change this when I get home in a few hours.

 

[Muk]

I honestly think Flamethrower should be slashed on the main set. It's really the only reason to use Blissey over Chansey.

Edit: Ash Borer pretty much covered this but it's good alongside Toxic for pressuring things like Scizor and Excadrill. It can also break Aegislash's Substitute with some investment iirc

 

[Ash Borer]

yes perferably with heal bell. Heal Bell is nice but losing it doesnt compromise your ability to wall things, and Flamethrower complements Toxic really well. Shit like Scizor, Mawile, Aegislash, Ferrothorn, etc just laugh at Blissey. Flamethrower can mitigate this. Flamethrower also has a mild chance of Breaking Gengar's subs meaning that it can actually chip away at sub taunt wisp gar rather than just straight up lose to it.

Even if flamethrower isnt amazing differentiating itself from Chansey is important here. Right now, thre are only mildly compelling reasons to use Blissey

 

[DragoKnight_149]

Flamethrower works well with Serene Grace, so how come it doesn't get a mention? Blissey can just use Heal Bell to get rid of status, and Blissey could definitely use the opponent's attack dropping due to it's low def compared to it's sp.def. So how come Serene Grace doesn't get a mention?

 

[craymond727]

Flamethrower works well with Serene Grace, so how come it doesn't get a mention? Blissey can just use Heal Bell to get rid of status, and Blissey could definitely use the opponent's attack dropping due to it's low def compared to it's sp.def. So how come Serene Grace doesn't get a mention?

At least in terms of the set listed, Flamethrower is slashed with Heal Bell, so if you run Flamethrower, you lose the option of using Heal Bell. Obviously, you can run whatever you want, but I believe it's only a 20% chance of burn (I may be wrong). Plus, with Natural Cure, you can save Heal Bell's PP if you only need to cure status on Blissey.

 

[DragoKnight_149]

At least in terms of the set listed, Flamethrower is slashed with Heal Bell, so if you run Flamethrower, you lose the option of using Heal Bell. Obviously, you can run whatever you want, but I believe it's only a 20% chance of burn (I may be wrong). Plus, with Natural Cure, you can save Heal Bell's PP if you only need to cure status on Blissey.

But Natural Cure only works upon switching out, so what if you want Blissey to stay in? 20% is pretty good, and you could go with ice beam even for the freeze. Also, status only be the case if the rest of your Pokemon are really slow and are Speciall Attackers. But I just don't think there's a point in running both, just like I don't think anyone should run Moxie and DD on Salamence, It's overkill.

EDIT: I still Serene Grace should get a mention, at least.

 

[craymond727]

Also, status only be the case if the rest of your Pokemon are really slow and are Speciall Attackers.

Could you clarify?

But I just don't think there's a point in running both, just like I don't think anyone should run Moxie and DD on Salamence, It's overkill.

But the question about Moxie and DD isn't about "overkill"; Salamence just isn't as effective running Moxie over Intimidate. Blissey is as effective, if not more so, using Natural Cure over Serene Grace. I'm not QC, so I can't say whether or not Serene Grace should get a mention or not, but I don't think Serene Grace is as useful on Blissey as you believe.

 

[Martin]

I know its done and all, but wouldn't it make more sense to slash Flamethrower with Seismic Toss? The only reason I'm saying is because it is called "cleric", but it isn't exactly a very good cleric if it isn't running any cleric moves, so it would instead be more of a special wall rather than a cleric without it.

 

[craymond727]

I know its done and all, but wouldn't it make more sense to slash Flamethrower with Seismic Toss? The only reason I'm saying is because it is called "cleric", but it isn't exactly a very good cleric if it isn't running any cleric moves, so it would instead be more of a special wall rather than a cleric without it.

I get what you're saying about the name, but Seismic Toss is more important to run than Heal Bell.

 

[DragoKnight_149]

Could you clarify?

What I meant here was that Paralysis slows you down and burn lowers your attack, and if your Pokemon were like that, they wouldn't be as crippled. That's all.

Thanks for the advice for Serence Grace. But if you ran heal bell, it'd be counterproductive to have poison heal or guts(assuming you use them) though that's fairly obvious. Poison Heal is Gliscor's thing.

 

[Martin]

Even without the soundproof mechanics of gen 4, isn't aromatherapy easier to obtain? Just pointing it out for the sole case of accessability, and its entirely up to you weather you change it.
Just as an additional perk which make absolutely no difference it appeals ot traditionalists more than Heal Bell, but that isn't exactly reasoning - hense the size 1 writing

 

[Consignia]

Just a thought, but would Shed Shell be worth a mention somewhere?

It feels like I've been seeing a lot more Gothitelle in the upper ladder lately and while it's still not common, the ability to escape trapping is a possible answer to the question 'why am I using Blissey over Chansey'. ofc losing leftovers makes you more vulnerable to being worn down so I dunno if it would ever be worth it unless you were counterteaming someone

 

[Unowninator]

What about a Kee Berry?

 

[Unowninator]

No. Blissey gets forced out enough for this to ever work well.

Oh well, it was worth asking. Thanks.