People were suggesting Shed Shell on Bliss to partner it with ScarfTar, which just doesn't work out. To truly deal with Shanderaa, Blissey has to dedicate a moveslot or two to HP Ground/Shadow Ball and optimally Psych Up. There isn't a better way around it.
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Blissey
- Thread starter Mario With Lasers
- Start date
Remember that, in Ubers, Blissey does occasionally run Psych Up/Calm Mind to some success, which may see some use in OU depending on what (if any) initial banlist is made and how the metagame shapes up.
Blissey's role may switch to being simply a more specialized Special wall rather than the catch-all threat that it was (by that I mean being able to wall weaker physical attackers like Flygon).
Blissey's role may switch to being simply a more specialized Special wall rather than the catch-all threat that it was (by that I mean being able to wall weaker physical attackers like Flygon).
The point I was trying to get at is that Blissey would be wasting most of its moves just to deal with one counter. I don't view Shanderaa as some all powerful sweeper, but he's just ONE of Blissey's worries. And, in order to take him out, she has to waste at least half her movepool.
Like a certain someone said earlier, let's try to stay on track. But, for what it's worth, what Scarftar's gonna use Crunch? They're ALL going to use Pursuit, I guarantee it.
I dont play with legal hacks. >.>
I was talking about wifi. :P
I dont think Bliss could be used. If they dont allow Superpower Scizor I dont think that Bliss would be seen.
EDIT: Could you guys stop talking about Shanderaa? This isnt a "What counters Bliss" thread.
It isn't a "what counters Bliss" thread, but Shandaraa is clearly a large threat to Blissey that may force it to adapt. That, in turn, has implications about what else is going to be able to muscle past Blissey, so there is some relevance.
That said, a Psych Up / Wish / Protect / Filler Blissey could potentially PP stall many of the SubCMers that seek to set up on it. Just a thought.
That said, a Psych Up / Wish / Protect / Filler Blissey could potentially PP stall many of the SubCMers that seek to set up on it. Just a thought.
You can also use wondertomb on FC WiFi. If 3rd/4th gen moves on Pokemon that can't get them in 5th gen end up being deemed illegal like these rumours state, you're breaking the rules as much as using wondertomb or 252 EVs in every stat
Uh... what? I can't even make sense of this. What deems 3 on 3 random WiFi with a lot of limitations as the meta...?
You can't use Wondertomb on Wi-Fi without hacking--it's totally impossible to have, period. Pokemon with 4th gen TMs/move tutor moves, however, are perfectly possible to get and transfer over, so there's no problem, as long as their used in FC matches and not hacked to be forced into Random Wi-Fi battles. The fact that they're banned on random Wi-Fi is completely irrelevant in a FC match, where there are no such bans and you're able to use them just fine, without hacking or anything. Under your logic, in DP, because of Petit Cup options, we shouldn't be able to use any Pokemon period in any of the modes that don't conform to those requirements, because that would just be like using a Wondereye and is just breaking its rules all the same...
Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The rules of one option for battling (Random) do not extend beyond that option to others (FC) and there's no reason to act like they do.
Edit: It seems there was quite possibly a misunderstanding here. According to what we've heard, it seems that it may be the case that in Random Wi-Fi battles (battles conducted without friend codes) may have these restrictions on what moves a Pokemon may have. However, that's just that one mode/battling option--this does not seem to be the case in Friend Code matches, and you appear able to use any legal Pokemon in them. Therefore, as the 4th gen TMs/move tutor moves themselves are perfectly legal, and we're still able to use them in Friend Code battles, there doesn't seem to be a real problem here to my knowledge--the Pokemon themselves aren't hacked, and they don't need to be hacked to get online or are prohibited in any way when doing a Wi-Fi battle through Friend Codes, so it seems perfectly fine to me, and I don't see how any comparisons to Wondertomb are warranted here.
Pack Blissey with Politoad... Rain reduces Fire. Give Blissey Serene Grace, and Thunder.
Blissey @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold
Serene Grace
Calm Mind
Thunder
Ice Beam
Softboiled
Wear down Shanderraa with Thunder at 60% Paralysis rate, while Blissey remains Immune Shadow Ball, Resistant to Fire (under Rain), and boosts long enough to hurt others after Shanderraa is gone. Specialized, yes; limited only to stopping Shandera... no. I remember Thunder Blisseys in 4th Gen. Ubers...
Blissey @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold
Serene Grace
Calm Mind
Thunder
Ice Beam
Softboiled
Wear down Shanderraa with Thunder at 60% Paralysis rate, while Blissey remains Immune Shadow Ball, Resistant to Fire (under Rain), and boosts long enough to hurt others after Shanderraa is gone. Specialized, yes; limited only to stopping Shandera... no. I remember Thunder Blisseys in 4th Gen. Ubers...
Super Mario Bro
All we ever look for
Goodness gracious, that is awfully specialized! I would probably run shed shell on Bliss if Shanderra becomes too troublesome, but Leftovers seems really difficult for me to sacrifice. Yes, this is quite a predicament.
Also, remember that HP Ground does very little to Shanderra after it has used Calm Mind once (0 SpA Blissey does 17.9% - 21.6% to +1 SpD 252 HP Shanderra). It's hardly an effective way to get rid of it.
Also, remember that HP Ground does very little to Shanderra after it has used Calm Mind once (0 SpA Blissey does 17.9% - 21.6% to +1 SpD 252 HP Shanderra). It's hardly an effective way to get rid of it.
Imagine Blissey in Double and Triple battles! It could make setup much easier, especially when teamed (in triple battles) with a Follow Me wall.
The moveset I have in mind is:
Blissey @ Leftovers
252 Speed / 252 Def / 4 HP
Bold
Healing Heart
Seismic Toss
Softboiled
Healing Beam
Aromatherapy
I'm not good at moveset-building, so feel free to shoot this down or change it.
The moveset I have in mind is:
Blissey @ Leftovers
252 Speed / 252 Def / 4 HP
Bold
Healing Heart
Seismic Toss
Softboiled
Healing Beam
Aromatherapy
I'm not good at moveset-building, so feel free to shoot this down or change it.
Personally, I think Blissey will have serious competition in Gen V from Snorlax as the premier special wall. Not only will Psycho Shock dent her more than the sloth (they both hate it, though) but the rise of the Fire type could return Lax to stapledom.
Think about it. Snaderaa vs. Snorlax (Thick Fat). Unlike Blissey, Snorlax resists Shaderaa's non-ghost STAB and retaliates for massive damage with either Crunch or Earthquake. The same goes for Urugamoso (fire moth), although neither of them enjoy boosted Bug Buzz.
Snorlax, unlike Blissey, can deal serious damage to them rather than becoming set uo bait.
But there are some threats that both will struggle with. NP Lucario, as an example. But at least lax can Earthquake him into oblivion.
Personally, I think that stallers might have to run both Blissey and Snorlax together with a ghost or something to answer the threats of the new gen. But I don't think that either of them will ever regain their omnipresence in the metagame, which in my opinion is a good thing.
Think about it. Snaderaa vs. Snorlax (Thick Fat). Unlike Blissey, Snorlax resists Shaderaa's non-ghost STAB and retaliates for massive damage with either Crunch or Earthquake. The same goes for Urugamoso (fire moth), although neither of them enjoy boosted Bug Buzz.
Snorlax, unlike Blissey, can deal serious damage to them rather than becoming set uo bait.
But there are some threats that both will struggle with. NP Lucario, as an example. But at least lax can Earthquake him into oblivion.
Personally, I think that stallers might have to run both Blissey and Snorlax together with a ghost or something to answer the threats of the new gen. But I don't think that either of them will ever regain their omnipresence in the metagame, which in my opinion is a good thing.
-_- ummm what ? Even burned Scarftar fucking rapes it. It still 2hko's it with burned Pursuit even if it stays in with SR and SS present (You take 93% MIN over 2 turns if you stay in with 2 Pursuits, 2 turns of SS and SR). Not only that but if you want to push your luck stay in id expect you to meet a Stone Edge or Crunch sooner or later. (Burned Crunch does 57.5% - 67.4%, burned SE does 71.3% - 83.5%).
Anyways moving on, Id just run Shed Shell honestly (especially with boosted Wishes, losing lefties wont matter much really). Or just use Snorlax if you really want to shit all over Shanderra.
Regardless passing HUGE Wishes is a massive selling point. I cant believe people will say she will drop in usage. I almost feel like saying "shut up" lol. She will still be a staple on stall, nothing can take special hits nearly as well as her or support the team as well as her, period.
Psych Up/CM Bliss MIGHT work ok this gen. I mean she ran it in ubers in ADV and the sp. attackers this gen by far surpass those of ADV so it seems like a reasonable option on her non Wish Softboiled sets.
Btw Bold and especially no sp.def evs = suck on non CM/Psych Up Bliss. You lose to stuff you are actually supposed to wall which is rather pathetic. See : Lo Gar, Flash Fire LO Tran and now it seems Specs Shandera amongst others. :/
Oh, I didn't see that thing about the wishes. "self-punch"
That certainly makes things more interesting for Shoddy, though it doesn't matter to me since I'm strictly Wi-Fi.
That certainly makes things more interesting for Shoddy, though it doesn't matter to me since I'm strictly Wi-Fi.
This has gone quite off topic. More like a shandera and its counters, now. Tho this is all about changes to blissey in 5th gen in no doubt about it, Shandera is the biggest change to blissey or at least her reign as sp wall queen.
If this one pokemon can force the arguable best special wall to sacrifice a few move-slots or make her change her item so she can run away with fear from sp attacker, then the meta game is in for a huge shake up.
It is impossible to predict what will happen with so many variables. Only time will tell which pokemon will stand on top of the tier list.
If this one pokemon can force the arguable best special wall to sacrifice a few move-slots or make her change her item so she can run away with fear from sp attacker, then the meta game is in for a huge shake up.
It is impossible to predict what will happen with so many variables. Only time will tell which pokemon will stand on top of the tier list.
I think Blissey wouldn't rise on usage, but I think she's only going to be used on more Defensive teams. Heck, I think she won't even be used anymore on Semi-Stall since people have better options now. However, Blissey is still the best Special Wall, and with Shed Shell, it will still be a good check to a lot of pokemons. Just adding my 2 cents :P
Another low point about Blissey with Shed Shell is that if people are going to be so predictable about how they use it (which they will have to be, you can't just throw ANYTHING in on Shanderaa and have it be trapped) it's going to be even easier to screw up the opponent. Oh look, that Blissey doesn't heal at the end of the turn. I'll just throw in Shanderaa, then switch out to something that scares out TTar and set up. Alternatively, Shanderaa can sub up/W-O-W on the obvious switchin, fire off a W-O-W/Sub right then and there (not sure which ends up being overall more effective), then destroy TTar with its longetivity even more extended when TTar can't 100% threaten it at enough to even 2HKO it normally.
Lololol Blissey is horrible in gen 5.
/sarcasm.
Okay, it's cliched, but it's been done in gen 4 too. Naysayer's be damned.
Okay, she's still as useful as ever. Shanderra is a bitch, but running shed shell can help alleviate that. I wouldn't ever run HP ground / Shadow Ball, because each of those moveslots are incredibly useful. The wish buff was pretty awesome. Walling the shit out of special attackers is way to good to pass up.
/sarcasm.
Okay, it's cliched, but it's been done in gen 4 too. Naysayer's be damned.
Okay, she's still as useful as ever. Shanderra is a bitch, but running shed shell can help alleviate that. I wouldn't ever run HP ground / Shadow Ball, because each of those moveslots are incredibly useful. The wish buff was pretty awesome. Walling the shit out of special attackers is way to good to pass up.
So a sweeping Blissey? Ok, but if you're going to do that you may as well use any special weeper since it'd pack more power. Wouldn't this just make Blissey outclassed by other special attackers? Such as Jirachi?
I mean if its meant to still be a support, you only are giving paralysis support now, and not wish/status healing.. seems TOO specialized to be of much use to me outside handling Shandera.
well if you want to talk about the real metagame, the only real metagame is VGC, but at least this poster put thought into his response so I will respond to him:
I was going off the rumour from the reserach thread that you can't even pal park 3rd/4th gen exclusive moves (which at the time a few people said this was true, but now there are people saying otherwise so I guess it's still just a rumour) which would indeed make them illegal. But even if they can be pal parked, they are still being deemed illegal in battle. If they're banned on random wifi, then likely if you try to upload that friend code match it will not be allowed due to illegal pokemon. But this is still all based on romours so not much point in arguing it.
as for the bolded point, that's a pretty bad conclusion to draw from my logic lol.
I don't see why so many people are freakin' out about shanderaa. The answer really is as simple as shed shell. Blissey walls special attacks so well leftovers isn't even necessary so long as you have softboiled or wish/protect. I hate to compare, but I used to run shed shell on my UU chansey because of dugtrio. She walled special attacks just as well as she would have otherwise.
Psycho shock is a problem but it's a lolpsychic (a shame what's been done to the typing) move and it will probably be obvious when a pokemon is carrying it. Then you can just switch to a suitable dark pokeyman... because if I'm not mistaken, not many non-psychics will be able to put good use to psycho shock.
Psycho shock is a problem but it's a lolpsychic (a shame what's been done to the typing) move and it will probably be obvious when a pokemon is carrying it. Then you can just switch to a suitable dark pokeyman... because if I'm not mistaken, not many non-psychics will be able to put good use to psycho shock.
Personally, I find it hilarious how people oversimplify Shadow Ball as a specialized option for Blissey to beat Shandera when in reality, it's a just another movepool option that depends on what your team needs and makes her job all around easier. I mean, I can't imagine how you guys actually countered Gengar and Rotom-A in the past, especially with them developing specialized sets just to beat her as well. Plus, I've never heard any complaints about Ice Beam as of yet yet, there are still a number of people using it just to beat Gliscor.
Also, with a set of Shadow Ball/Seismic Toss/Softboiled/Aromatherapy with an optional Serene Grace she's still beating damn near every special attacker in the book while still absorbing status and not getting stalled out by other walls. Remember, the best thing about Blissey is that she'll sponge special attacks no matter what her set is, so she can actually afford to give up certain movepool slots just to beat a specific threat. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I know for certain that I'd run Shadow Ball in the event that Shandera gets to be a problem. Blissey switching out on a special attacer? Screw that noise. Bring on the Pain Split and I'll bring on the Toxic. Bring on the CM and I'll bring on the Serene Grace Shadow Balls.
I love Pokemon.
Also, with a set of Shadow Ball/Seismic Toss/Softboiled/Aromatherapy with an optional Serene Grace she's still beating damn near every special attacker in the book while still absorbing status and not getting stalled out by other walls. Remember, the best thing about Blissey is that she'll sponge special attacks no matter what her set is, so she can actually afford to give up certain movepool slots just to beat a specific threat. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I know for certain that I'd run Shadow Ball in the event that Shandera gets to be a problem. Blissey switching out on a special attacer? Screw that noise. Bring on the Pain Split and I'll bring on the Toxic. Bring on the CM and I'll bring on the Serene Grace Shadow Balls.
I love Pokemon.
I love Blissey.
She is in every single one of my teams.
The best part?Is that once she's in the team, i don't have to worry about a bunch of threats.The rest of my team now can breath knowing Starmie,Gengar,Zapdos,Togekiss..etc are all accounted for.
Also Substitute+LO+Pain Split Gengar really isn't a counter to Blissey.It has never beaten mine...all i do is T-Wave+Seismic Toss+Softboiled..And Gengar loses all his Focus Blasts and can no longer hurt Blissey...
Also, i always run Counter on Blissey.Gets some awesome KO's.
Set:
Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Bold
4 HP/252 Def/252 Spdef
-Counter
-T-Wave
-Softboiled
-Seismic Toss
That's the best set in my opinion.I like my Blisseys to be Fighters not stallers.Also, the reason why i don't have 252 EVs in HP is because i need it to wall the special attackers.And it has enough HP already..This thing survives a +1 Ttar stone edge..choice scarf tar does nothing to this thing.
Blissey will not leave OU because it can still surprise things with weird sets...Does counter work against that Psychic move?
She is in every single one of my teams.
The best part?Is that once she's in the team, i don't have to worry about a bunch of threats.The rest of my team now can breath knowing Starmie,Gengar,Zapdos,Togekiss..etc are all accounted for.
Also Substitute+LO+Pain Split Gengar really isn't a counter to Blissey.It has never beaten mine...all i do is T-Wave+Seismic Toss+Softboiled..And Gengar loses all his Focus Blasts and can no longer hurt Blissey...
Also, i always run Counter on Blissey.Gets some awesome KO's.
Set:
Blissey @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
Bold
4 HP/252 Def/252 Spdef
-Counter
-T-Wave
-Softboiled
-Seismic Toss
That's the best set in my opinion.I like my Blisseys to be Fighters not stallers.Also, the reason why i don't have 252 EVs in HP is because i need it to wall the special attackers.And it has enough HP already..This thing survives a +1 Ttar stone edge..choice scarf tar does nothing to this thing.
Blissey will not leave OU because it can still surprise things with weird sets...Does counter work against that Psychic move?