Breaking Through The Stall

[Antar]

Hey, I'm Antar. You probably know me as the guy who puts together the usage stats each month and does occasional upgrades to Smogon's PO server. What you probably *don't* know is that I'm actually much more active on Youtube, where I post DS battles using teams I actually breed/RNG(/trade for).

I've had moderate success in OU, UU, RU, LC (God, how I love Little Cup), and Ubers was the last great horizon (that is, until NU came out). So I threw together an Ubers team, playtested the hell out of it on the PO servers, RNG'd it and then went to find some battles with it. Problem is, the team's not doing NEARLY as well as I thought it would, and I keep getting my ass walled by Ubers stall teams. I've tried modifying it myself, but I think I really need some community help here.

Hence, this RMT.

At A Glance...

Overview
With this team, I'm going for hyper-offense. Reshiram is obviously the main power, here, with Ghost Arceus filling the role of physical sweeper and Deoxys-A as a kick-ass mixed revenge killer. Groudon's around to set up the sun, some rocks and do some phazing. Palkia is for Kyogre. Scizor is for resisting dragon moves and some nice coverage.

In Detail

Gondwana (Groudon) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roar
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

Originally I was running an Adamant set with Dragon Tail, but I was convinced to switch to a bulkier, more supporting set. So far, I've been pretty amazed--it seems to hit sufficiently hard when I need it to (I'm debating running some attack EVs to OHKO bulky Ho-oh, but I'm not really seeing it as being particularly necessary).

Booth (Reshiram) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball Dragon Pulse

[S\No changes from my original set, but[/S] I've got to say--OH MY GOD, BLUE FLARE IS AMAZING. The other three moves are basically filler. Sun-boosted Blue Flare kills EVERYTHING.

Daenerys (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor Spacial Rend
- Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Stone Edge

Replacing Ludicolo. Nickname probably would have been better suited for Reshiram, since Palkia can still be burned, but still, aside from that, fire *cannot* kill this dragon. Palkia's also awesome for countering rain. At least in theory. Haven't come across any rain teams in a while (as of 9pm EST on 11/5). PO hates me--Draco Meteor has been missing like whoah. I'm debating swapping it out for Spacial Rend (PO *still* hates me--Spacial Rend keeps missing, too).

DEOXYS (Deoxys-A) @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- ExtremeSpeed
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
- Psycho Boost

Unchanged since the original version. Great revenge killer. Frail as paper.

Arceus (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Brick Break
- Recover

I really didn't want to run an Arceus, but I'm not (yet?) a good enough player to be competitive without one. Ghost Arceus is my replacement for Giratina-O, and it is one hell of an impressive physical sweeper. Shadow Claw and Brick Break for excellent coverage. I was initially skeptical of not running any defense EVs, but Arceus is so naturally bulky, it rarely wants any more, thanks to recover.

Rico (Scizor) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Atk / 24 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance

As Tobes said, I don't really *need* a spinner, so bye bye Excadrill. Great resistances, adds great attacking coverage. Amazing power, especially after an SD. Wish I could run SD and Roost, but I don't want to lose any of the attacking moves.

Threats
Not yet at a high enough ladder rating to really get an accurate assessment (all you people keeping that "max rating difference" setting checked...). Please feel free to educate me.

Original Version

At A Glance...

Overview
With this team, I was going for hyper-offense. Reshiram is obviously the main power, here, with Giratina-O filling the role of physical sweeper and Deoxys-A as a kick-ass mixed revenge killer. Groudon's around to set up the sun, some rocks and do some phazing. Ludicolo is my best rain counter, out-speeding even scarfed Kyogre and having a decent shot of OHKOing any non-bulky set. Excadrill is for spinning.

In Detail

Gondwana (Groudon) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock

I'm running Adamant Max Attack over some sort of defensive nature for the added firepower. Dragon Tail instead of Roar seemed to compliment this, as I could phaze and do a good chunk of damage at the same time. My experience so far is making me lean towards running a bulkier set instead, probably replacing Dragon Tail with Roar, since there are so many subbers around these days.

Booth (Reshiram) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Turboblaze
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball

Standard specs set. Nothing very interesting. I will say that I've been disappointed by its firepower. Doesn't seem to be hitting as hard as I thought it would. But, then again, if you've seen my battle(s) with this team, you can see that part of the problem is that I'm not using it right (in the sun, Blue Flare will almost always be the superior move against most opponents).

Onion (Ludicolo) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Scald
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam

Really only useful in the rain. Onion comes in, OHKOes (usually) unsuspecting Kyogres, then proceeds to sweep until it dies, thanks to its crazy-fast speed after Swift Swim. Outside of rain, it's basically death fodder, although I've found it to be a *decent* Ferrothorn counter, blocking Leech Seed and 2HKOing with Focus Blast (if, by some miracle, both hits land).

Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 84 HP / 216 Atk / 96 SDef / 112 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Shadow Sneak

This guy needs to go. It's a variation on the 4th gen physically offensive set, but it has NOT worked for me so far AT ALL. It just doesn't hit hard enough and has no reliable form of recovery. The idea of this set was that it added some great immunities to my team (especially Extremespeed from Arceus). And so it does, but once it's in, it pretty much just sits there.

DEOXYS (Deoxys-A) @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 76 Atk / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- ExtremeSpeed
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
- Psycho Boost

This baby is awesome if used correctly. Outspeeds base-90 neutral scarfers and all non-scarfers, save Deo-S and faster Deo-A's. Superpower + Psycho Boost proves to be an extremely effective combo, as most opponents expect you to have to switch after using one or the other, and they DEFINITELY don't expect a mixed set. Of course, it's frail as anything, but that's the price you pay. Extremespeed is for priority users (and when you don't want your attack lowered), whereas Ice Beam is there for obvious coverage.

Avocado (Excadrill) (F) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Brick Break (replacing with Shadow Claw)
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Basically fills a role against sand teams analogous to Ludicolo's role against rain... except Excadrill is actually *useful* outside of sand, since he spins. Brick Break is kinda pointless, except against screens, since EQ will always either do the same or more (and without taking, say, Iron Barbs damage against Ferrothorn). Its firepower is lacking, but what do you expect?


Threats
-Arceus: I really didn't want to run my own Arceus on this team, but I've found myself really struggling against more defensive Arceii. Also, it seems like Spooky Plate Arceus might be a good replacement for Giratina-O (same attack, better defenses and speed)
-Lugia: my team can do absolutely nothing against Lugia. End of story.
-Status: having no cleric has proven to be much more of an issue than I thought it would be. If anyone gives me a good (non-Chansey/Blissey) cleric that would work on this team, I'd be extremely grateful.

Any suggestions would be *greatly* appreciated. Again, my goal here is sun-based hyper-offense, not to counter stall with more stall. Thanks in advance!

 

[Tobes]

Hi there.

This is a unique team, which I like, but it does seem to have some problems.

For my first suggestion, I'd make Groudon Impish with 252 HP / 252 Def. I know you want your team to be offensive, but you have problems with ExtremeKiller Arceus and Groudon needs all the bulk it can get to handle that thing.

When I played you you were using SD Ghost Arceus over Giratina-O, which is a pretty good change imo.

Ludicolo is a decent option for checking Kyogre, but I'd consider Choice Scarf Palkia, as Ludicolo can be worn down very easily thanks to that LO recoil, leaving your team wide open to Kyogre.

Palkia @ Choice Scarf
Pressure
Timid 0/0/0/252/0/252
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower / Fire Blast
- Thunder
- Whatever move you think works best here, Outrage + Hasty is an option to revenge kill CM Mewtwo, or Stone Edge to hit Ho-Oh.

I'm a bit iffy on Excadrill here. Yes, it works well against sand teams, but sand teams aren't all that common in Ubers, and Groudon already gives you an advantage against them. You also don't need Rapid Spin that badly, so I'd consider a different Steel-type. Here are two changes that could work.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Technician
Adamant 232/252/0/0/24/0
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower
- Swords Dance / Roost

or

Forretress @ Red Card
Sturdy
Sassy 252/0/4/0/252/0
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball / Payback

This version of Forretress plays similarly to Deo-S, getting hazards out quickly in the beginning. Red Card can also save your ass if you let Arceus set up to +4 or something like that, as long as it's not last mon. You can use something else over Stealth Rock, or replace Stealth Rock on Groudon with Thunder Wave, making it more difficult for your opponent to deal with Reshiram.

Offensive Scizor can sponge a Dragon attack and hit back hard. Swords Dance makes it more of an all-out attacker as you seem to be inclined towards, but Roost can make it more of a nuisance for the opponent. Up to you if you decide to give it a try.

Good luck!

 

[Antar]

Thanks, Tobes! I'm playing around with Scizor now, and I'm liking what I'm seeing. You're right that Rapid Spin support seems less-than-essential.

I've also subbed in Palkia and Impish Groudon. I'll update the OP once I'm confident I like the changes.

 

[Cerulean]

if you like giratinas resistances but not that set i would try a Sub/Calm Mind/Dragon Pulse/Shadow ball(or)thunder(or)Aura Sphere, i have been using giratina alot recently to for its resistances and this set has done great for me, it can set up on many things with its resistances/immunities plus chans/bliss can do nothing to it if u get a sub up. as for the EV's ive been using the standard 4th gen that you have but alittle less speed and more bulk because you hardly see jolly TTar, i run enough to outspeed 4 Speed base 100's it also outspeeds other 90's with little to no speed. i would also use shadow ball for the last move because it does most to lugia. or you could use a standard Rest/Talking Giratina, if u do i would run Will-O-Wisp and Roar as your last two moves, Roar because lugias trouble for you and dragon tail wont break its subs

 

[Antar]

if you like giratinas resistances but not that set i would try a Sub/Calm Mind/Dragon Pulse/Shadow ball(or)thunder(or)Aura Sphere,

while that sounds nice, it would mean that I'd have no physical sweepers on my team. I'm going to continue playing with Ghost Arceus for now, but I may come back to this.

 

[GtM]

I think one of the issues with this team is that it's serving more as a reaction to other teams than a cohesive unit in itself. Say the opponent doesn't have an opposing weather. This makes Excadrill and Ludicolo much less useful to your team, so you're effectively 6-4 down from the start. It might be a better idea to include pokemon on your team that both deal effectively with Drizzle and Sand teams respectively whilst benefitting more from the Drought that Groudon provides. As stated before, Palkia could be a great replacement for Ludicolo since it can switch in on Kyogre with ease and sweep in either Drizzle or Drought with Thunder / Hydro Pump or Fire Blast respectively. I'm not so sure about what would fill Excadrill's role.

 

[Antar]

Everyone above, thanks for the feedback. I've revised the OP, and I'd love some feedback on the new team.

Specifically, I would *love* some opinions on whether Draco Meteor is really needed on Palkia instead of Spacial Rend.

 

[toybox]

Draco Meteor is not really necessary but it's nice for that extra oomph like straight up KOing Darkrai with Rocks which is something Spacial Rend wish it did. I don't see it as a problem though since between Deoxys-A, Scizor, and Palkia, you have Darkrai covered. Palkia can then run Spacial Rend for consistency. I'm going to suggest Flamethrower over Shadow Ball on Reshiram because in the Sun, Flamethrower actually does more damage than super effective Shadow Ball on neutral opponents except for Giratina which is obliterated by Draco Meteor anyway. Similarly, Focus Blast only really hits Heatran and Tyranitar, but Sun-boosted Blue Flare (Turbo Blaze :D) does more than Focus Blast on Heatran while the the latter shouldn't be a problem since you have Groudon and thus a natural advantage against Sand teams. Dragon Pulse can go in this slot so they you aren't forced to be at -2 everytime you want to kill something like Giratina-O. Focus Blast is still has that niche of hitting Tyranitar, but overall, I'd say scrap it.

May I suggest a bulky SD set for Scizor? It's your sole dragon resist and you'll have to rely on it to take various Draco Meteors and Spacial Rends since nothing else on your team can tank one besides Arceus. You might find yourself missing quite a bit of power but the added utility of a more defensive set may be more beneficial. Give it a try:

Scizor @ Leftovers
Trait: Technition
EVs: 200HP / 56Atk / 252SpD
Adamant nature(+Atk, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite / Superpower
- Roost

 

[Antar]

I'm going to suggest Flamethrower over Shadow Ball... Dragon Pulse can go in this slot so they you aren't forced to be at -2 everytime you want to kill something like Giratina-O. Focus Blast is still has that niche of hitting Tyranitar, but overall, I'd say scrap it.

Dragon Pulse I get, but Flamethrower seems like kind of a waste. I know the idea is that you're going for added PP (and accuracy--wow. Didn't realize BF was only 85% accurate), but surely there must be SOME move that provides additional coverage...

May I suggest a bulky SD set for Scizor?

The bulk is tempting, but I really like the versatility of three attacks. I may reconsider as I continue to ladder.

 

[Lickitungyourmom]

Your team looks to have a lot of special attackers, if you are having problems with stall I guess chansey/blissey are walling you. Choice band pursuit Tyranitar eats the pink blobs for lunch.
If you're in ubers, you should be running this:

@Leftovers
Careful
252 hp / 248 SpD / 8 Spe
Bulk up
Outrage
Sleep talk
Rest
This thing eats ubers for lunch. Save it for last to stop it being phazed, or just bring it in mid game - and if the opponent doesn't switch to Groudon right away then he/she is dead already. This thing is such a monster - can set up in support Groudons face.

Also, why bother with ghost Arceus? Your only hazards are stealth rocks. I wouldn't bother with a spin blocker. Normal Arceus is by far a superior physical sweeper option. Honestly it takes one move to set up rocks, and one move to spin - by the time the opponent has spun, the rocks would have done some damage. Plus the opponent has a crappy Forretress on their team which can't really do anything in the face of offensive pokemon.

@ leftovers
Adamant
252 Hp / 252 Att / 4 Def
Extremespeed
Earthquake
Shadowclaw / Toxic / Recover
Sword dance
This guy doesn't fear being paralysed or poison much either - both t wave and toxic give him a free turn of set up. Most teams struggle to find an answer to this guy. On my team I use this Arceus and have a metagross with toxic to cripple opposing lugia. Maybe you could run toxic on your scizor then lugia would not be able to wall Arceus.

 

[Lugztina]

On Reshiram, since Blue Flare is your main attack and the rest is basically filler, and since Fire/Dragon already has the coverage it needs, WHY would you have non-stabbed Shadow Ball if something like Flamethrower in the sun hits stuff like Lugia harder? Also, since you have Groudon, Tyranitar isn't really an issue anyways and Reshiram should probably not go against it just in case it misses. I know this has been stated before, but Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower would be much better for Reshiram to go on. You already have the coverage with its STABs alone.

 

[Antar]

Your team looks to have a lot of special attackers, if you are having problems with stall I guess chansey/blissey are walling you.

I actually haven't been having problems with the pink blobs so far. Between SD Brick Break on Arceus, SD Superpower on Scizor, Superpower on Deoxys and sun-boosted Flue Flare 2HKOing max HP Evio Chnasey, I think I'm actually okay.

Choice band pursuit Tyranitar eats the pink blobs for lunch.

With Reshiram being fairly to moderately useless without sun, I'd rather not run an alternative weather-user (although Unnerve T-tar is coming soon, lol!)
If you're in ubers, you should be running this:

Also, why bother with ghost Arceus? Your only hazards are stealth rocks. I wouldn't bother with a spin blocker.

The Holy Ghost isn't really there for spin-blocking. It's mainly there as a counter to Extremekiller Arceus (the one you suggest running, basically). Plus STAB Shadow Claw threatens--if not completely demolishes--Lugia.



Both pokemon you suggest would greatly reduce the momentum of my team. Again, I'm going for hyper-offense. I hear it's a hard strategy to pull off, but I'm going to try and give it a shot.

On Reshiram, since Blue Flare is your main attack and the rest is basically filler, and since Fire/Dragon already has the coverage it needs, WHY would you have non-stabbed Shadow Ball if something like Flamethrower in the sun hits stuff like Lugia harder? Also, since you have Groudon, Tyranitar isn't really an issue anyways and Reshiram should probably not go against it just in case it misses. I know this has been stated before, but Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower would be much better for Reshiram to go on. You already have the coverage with its STABs alone.

Um... yeah. I'm switching in Flamethrower + Dragon Pulse now. I was worried that, if I lose Groudon, then Reshiram is useless. But (1) it's not that hard to play conservatively with Groudon and (2) Blue Flare does more than Focus Blast even in rain (cannot believe it actually OHKOes Max HP/SpD Ferrothorn, while Focus Miss does not!). I still feel a bit like clinging to Focus Miss for the coverage, but it's really just silly.

 

[trickroom]

Chansey doesn't threaten your team much but Chansey actually survives 2 Blue Flares from Reshiram even in the sun assuming max Special Defense and it is at 100% health.

You don't need another weather changer, but I think you can drop Scizor for Ferrothorn if you don't mind losing a sweeper because Kyogre is extremely annoying. Ferrothorn also gives your team Spikes which helps wear down foes faster. Ferrothorn doesn't fit into hyper-offense but it's up to you to decide.

The Holy Ghost isn't really there for spin-blocking. It's mainly there as a counter to Extremekiller Arceus (the one you suggest running, basically). Plus STAB Shadow Claw threatens--if not completely demolishes--Lugia.

You can't counter Extremekiller with your current Ghost Arceus. Brick Break doesn't even 2HKO Extremekiller while a +2 Shadow Claw will be 2HKOing you at worst. You need Will-O-Wisp to stop it. Shadow Claw fails to 2HKO Lugia at +0. One-on-one, Lugia actually walls you(assuming no crit) with Reflect + Toxic or phaze you out with Dragon Tail/Whirlwind.

Focus Blast is redundant on Reshiram when Draco Meteor already does massive damage to Tyranitar. It 2HKOes Tyranitar after just Stealth Rock.

Watchout for Calm Mind Kyogre because it kills your entire team once Groudon is down. Palkia doesn't beat Mono-attacking RestTalk Kyogre.

Nice to see a team featuring Deoxys-A, good luck. I think a spinner will be useful for your Reshiram switching in and out. Since this is hyper offense, you probably don't need it or exchange Scizor for Forretress. Forretress annoys most Lugia through Spike stacking. While Lugia can't touch Scizor, Scizor can't defeat Lugia either unless you are the last pokemon remaining.

 

[Antar]

Chansey doesn't threaten your team much but Chansey actually survives 2 Blue Flares from Reshiram even in the sun assuming max Special Defense and it is at 100% health.

Do people actually run Max SpD Chansey?

You don't need another weather changer, but I think you can drop Scizor for Ferrothorn if you don't mind losing a sweeper because Kyogre is extremely annoying. Ferrothorn also gives your team Spikes which helps wear down foes faster. Ferrothorn doesn't fit into hyper-offense but it's up to you to decide.

I am considering Ferro, actually, or at least a bulkier Scizor. As is, Scizor is a bit too frail.

You can't counter Extremekiller with your current Ghost Arceus. Brick Break doesn't even 2HKO Extremekiller while a +2 Shadow Claw will be 2HKOing you at worst. You need Will-O-Wisp to stop it. Shadow Claw fails to 2HKO Lugia at +0.

So far, my strategy has been to try to prevent Extremekiller Arceus from setting up, either by roaring it out after a SD with Groudon or by getting my Arceus in right away and setting up on it first. Haven't actually had too much of a problem with it so far (Scizor is great for dealing with it too), except... I got completely devastated recently by a Will-o-Wisp-carrying Arceus. Especially since all my Arceus-counters are physical.

One-on-one, Lugia actually walls you(assuming no crit) with Reflect + Toxic or phaze you out with Dragon Tail/Whirlwind.

Haven't had any problems with Lugia in a while. It's just a matter of prediction: SD if I think Lugia's going to set up or attack, Shadow Claw if I think it's gonna whirlwind. And I have enough heavy-hitters on this team that if Lugia just keeps going for whirlwinds, I can usually whittle it down (assuming I haven't dropped the ball and let my side get covered in hazard).

Focus Blast is redundant on Reshiram when Draco Meteor already does massive damage to Tyranitar. It 2HKOes Tyranitar after just Stealth Rock.

Changed that a while ago.

Watchout for Calm Mind Kyogre

Yeah, this guy is crazy scary.

because it kills your entire team once Groudon is down.

My strategy has been to keep Groudon alive as long as possible. And so far, I've actually won all my weather wars (doesn't mean I've won the battle, though).

Palkia doesn't beat Mono-attacking RestTalk Kyogre.

Have not had the privilege of encountering that variant yet. I'll be on the lookout.

Nice to see a team featuring Deoxys-A, good luck.

I originally ran more Atk and less Speed, but it got destroyed by scarfers. Alas now, Superpower doesn't OHKO Ferrothorn. I'm debating moving some SpA EVs to Atk. Any feedback?

I think a spinner will be useful for your Reshiram switching in and out. Since this is hyper offense, you probably don't need it or exchange Scizor for Forretress. Forretress annoys most Lugia through Spike stacking. While Lugia can't touch Scizor, Scizor can't defeat Lugia either unless you are the last pokemon remaining.

This is a good point, and I'll definitely consider it.

 

[trickroom]

I originally ran more Atk and less Speed, but it got destroyed by scarfers. Alas now, Superpower doesn't OHKO Ferrothorn. I'm debating moving some SpA EVs to Atk. Any feedback?

Most scarfers such as Palkia, Garchomp, Hydreigon and Terrakion will still outrun you anyway. The only thing significant you can outrun with max Speed is Modest Kyogre. I will personally use more Attack EVs instead or use Rash/Mild, taking out from Special Attack is fine though because Psycho Boost still OHKOes standard Support Groudon with at least 430 Special Attack.

Yeah Groudon is a good check to Extremekiller Arceus, and this is done easier when you have Forretress to provide Spikes/Toxic Spikes support to wear out Arceus even faster. Kyogre also hates Toxic Spikes a lot.

Most Uber Chansey run max Special Defense from what I can see. The Chansey analysis for Ubers is max HP / max SpD Calm. If you managed to burn it, Reshiram will still defeat Chansey anyway. Toxic Spikes helps in defeating Chansey.

 

[puregenius]

noooo run draco meteor on palkia its much better

 

[Antar]

Most scarfers such as Palkia, Garchomp, Hydreigon and Terrakion will still outrun you anyway. The only thing significant you can outrun with max Speed is Modest Kyogre.

And Adamant Zekrom. And every other neutral base-90 scarfers. I come across them surprisingly often. But we'll see--I might end up reverting back to my old EV spread of 144/252/114 (enough to out-speed all neutral-natured Deoxys-A's)

I will personally use more Attack EVs instead or use Rash/Mild, taking out from Special Attack is fine though because Psycho Boost still OHKOes standard Support Groudon with at least 430 Special Attack.

Thanks for this.

Yeah Groudon is a good check to Extremekiller Arceus, and this is done easier when you have Forretress to provide Spikes/Toxic Spikes support to wear out Arceus even faster. Kyogre also hates Toxic Spikes a lot.

Most Uber Chansey run max Special Defense from what I can see. The Chansey analysis for Ubers is max HP / max SpD Calm.

I'm looking at it now. It appears to be 252 Def / 252 SpD. But I'm just quibbling over details.

noooo run draco meteor on palkia its much better

Thanks. That was SUPER helpful and informative! 9.9

I find that I really do prefer Spacial Rend. It lets me leave Palkia in to sweep if need be and if the opportunity presents itself. You can't really do that with Draco Meteor--all you can do there is revenge, and most opponents that are vulnerable to it will switch out of a DM anyway. Also, half as many misses and increased crit rate. If hax is gonna be an issue, I'd rather it be in my favor. :)

 

[eriados]

Consider running Shadow Force on Ghostceus. In return for sacrificing PP and some predictability, you get an obscene amount of power.

 

[min min]

Should a Groudon manage to set up, you might be in trouble since you have no Ground-resists. Not sure if Deoxys-A can revenge it, but your own Groudon can definitely tank the EQ and Roar it out, which isn't that reliable a method. It's still a legit threat so you might want to consider a Ground-resist on that team.

 

[Antar]

Consider running Shadow Force on Ghostceus. In return for sacrificing PP and some predictability, you get an obscene amount of power.

I've thought about it, but I tend to use Ghostceus for revenging against psychics and fellow ghosts, who would be more than happy to switch out once they see what I'm up to.

Should a Groudon manage to set up, you might be in trouble since you have no Ground-resists. Not sure if Deoxys-A can revenge it, but your own Groudon can definitely tank the EQ and Roar it out, which isn't that reliable a method. It's still a legit threat so you might want to consider a Ground-resist on that team.

I have not once seen an offensive Groudon in all my battles so far. But yeah, I'm not too worried: Blue Flare is a guaranteed OHKO against a Bulk Up set, even running 252 HP, Max SpD, and Ice Beam from Deoxys OHKOes 4/0 Groudon. The Rock Polish set is worrisome, since it'll outspeed Deoxys, but that's what Roar on my own Groudon is for. I don't really need a ground resist/immunity, since only Reshiram is weak to it.